I finished reading Richard Pett's excellent adventure, "The Styes" last night and was suitably impressed. One aspect I liked about the adventure was its overall tone and feel. I can only guess that the adventure draws some inspiration from H.P. Lovecraft's "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," but that is just my guess. Anyone who is thinking about running this adventure should read that story for additional ideas and flavor.
(The other two adventures in the issue were likewise high quality, entertaining, and filled with nifty atmosphere...but that's a different thread...)
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The adventure just screams "Innsmouth". I'd love to see some more material set there. It's a great setting with a lot of creepy potential above and beyond the excellent adventure already set there. The boat hanging from a crane is just downright disturbing.
On a sidenote, I think I'm supposed to fight Richard Pett now. I'm thinking a Westside Story-esque gang brawl.
Richard, if you'll bring the switchblades I'll bring the brass knuckles and give snapping lessons to all the gangmembers.
Greg, surely we should be bringing lesser tenatacle rods!...I'm really pleased you both liked it - yes innsmouth is absolutely my favourite lovecraft story, however, the aboleth touches are james'; in my original the enemy was a mutated sahaugin (like a deep sea angler, hence the lantern man) but I have to say I think it works much better with the old fishy terrors themselves. I'd love to set some more adventures in the area, it does lend itself to lovecraft/mieville adventures. Yes, the boat, now where did that come from???
I can't wait to get my PCs into a city where I can run this one. Really good stuff. Keep up the good work.
ASEO out
As a Greyhawk fan, I'm a little leery of the fact that Tharizdun is apparently now "officially" Cthulhu. I like Lovecraft and Tharzy was always a bit on the Lovecraftian side, but cephalopod minions? That's too close for comfort, IMHO.
I like Call of Cthulhu, I think it is a great game. But I am little concerned lately on how much it is getting focused on for D&D. Mostly this is a comment on Dragon mag, someone there has a serious Cthulhu fetish.
I just got #121 and haven't read the Styes just yet... I have read through the editorial, Prison Mail and Will Save and am now starting Fiend's Embrace. But one of the other things I look at is the "Next Month" side notes. Enter the Far Realm by Bruce Cordell seems one more in a series of Cthulhu-ish themes in the magizine... throw in the other two articles being Ebberon and I am getting a bit dissappointed in the mag...
Sean Mahoney
Yeah, the next Dragon does not look exciting to me for just those reasons. Less Eberron! Most of us don't use it (or any specific published setting, for that matter). I am leery of this promised "new Forgotten Realms" column, too. FR in every issue will likely prevent me from resubscribing. :( Keep it generic, please!
Creative Director
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Never fear... While Tharizdun is definately the most Lovecraftian of the Greyhawk deities, he's not Cthulhu with a name change. If associating Tharizdun with the cultists and monsters in "The Styes" doesn't work for you, the best alternate deity from the core setting would probably be Vecna. You could also use one of the aquatic monster deities like Blibdoolpoolp, Laogzed, Panzuriel, or Sekolah (all are detailed briefly in Chapter Five of Complete Divine).
As for Cthulhu fetishes... if anyone here at Paizo carries that particular sickness, I'm afraid that would be me. Although Erik Mona's got a touch of it as well...
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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As for Cthulhu fetishes... if anyone here at Paizo carries that particular sickness, I'm afraid that would be me. Although Erik Mona's got a touch of it as well...
You can tell by the bulging-eyed "Innsmouth look."
--Erik
PS: The Far Realm article is great. I suspect most people will love it. I think accusing us of having a slight dark fantasy bias is probably fair, but it's something we'll keep under control. Upcoming Eberron content is top notch. It's the new, shiny campaign setting, folks. We're going to cover it in the magazines from time to time. It can't all be Greyhawk maps and Mystara homages, alas.
I think that things Cthulhu bring a refreshing change of "feel" and atmosphere to D&D, even when used sporadically. Adventures, plots, monsters, and so forth can be inspired by Lovecraft, yet have absolutely nothing to do with Lovecraft. For me personally, Lovecraft is about evoking a certain mood, a specific feel to a story, with or without the Great Old Ones making an appearance. If nothing else, Cthulhu inspiration keeps characters (and their players) uncertain and even fearful from time to time...they can't always beat everything they encounter.
"It can't all be Greyhawk maps and Mystara homages, alas."
I love GH and like Eberron a lot, but even I don't think any one world warrants a monthly Dragon column. That's just plain too much non-generic content, pure and simple.
IMHO, of course.
Its a case of balance I think, to me the Styes is as much China Mieville as it is Lovecraft, and as much as I love both I wouldnt want to be reading them all the time, but I think that dungeon strikes a great balance, personally I love stuff like Tammerauts Fate and the Box of Flumph and wouldnt find much use for epic level stuff, but theres always something I can use in Dungeon, as adventures are well written even if I dont use them it could inspire some ideas to use in my own campaign. Personally I run two campaigns, one to please the hack and slay chaps and one to please the ravenloft crowd, both are equally enjoyable and both use exactly the same system.
Cheers Greg, yes I'd love to have a bash at another adventure in The Styes if there was enough interest, but I'd also love to write that adventure with the pantomime nightmare...
I think that hints of Cthulhu-type games are fantastic. The traditional "evil" bad guy can get so stale, and as a DM, it's refreshing to have motivations for your baddies that are absolutely alien to a normal humanoid's precepts.
Well played PCs should have no trouble going against such creatures as well. Whether they are evil or good aligned, the reasons for fighting these nightmares should be pretty self-evident. Think of these beasties as an assult on the fabric of your system of beliefs about the natural world, and if their existence doesn't spark revulsion and fear into your PCs, then they aren't playing their characters as well as they should(or they're an Alienist).
I'm looking forward to the Abberations book coming out soon. I think it will spark a lot of thinking about how these creatures are truly meant to be played.
Richard, the adventure is great! Keep it up, dude.
I'd love to have a bash at another adventure in The Styes if there was enough interest...
richard~ the styes is one of the best all-around adventures i've seen in years, especially in atmospheric content. consider this a vote of interest in favor of another styes adventure, or a backdrop article. make it happen!
As a fan of Lovecraft and the Cthulhu Mythos myself, I am all for better use of weird fantasy in D&D. Not for everyone, I'm sure, and I don't think its a perfect direction for D&D to go in, no, but exploring it now and again, such as with adventures like "The Styes" and the upcomming Dragon #330, is perfect.
I've yet to see this issue, but i'm sure to love "The Styes" very much, as I enjoy good backdrops as much as I do good adventures.
(Damn. I might have to GET Lords of Madness...)
First off, I would like to apologize for my comments about the Styes being too much Cthulhu. I have read it now and actually feel it is one of the better adventures I have seen in Dungeon. The mood it invokes (or at least how I will play it when I can fit it in) is almost more of a Jack-the-Ripper type environment than anything else.
My only comment would be that I felt the final aquatic battle wasn't as necessary and broke at that point into more of a typical D&D dungeon hack. Just a little though, not fully. I think I might actually play a beginning portion in which the PCs are involved in hunting and capturing the killer... only to be convinced of his innocence (or non-compliance) after his death.
As for the comments on the "glut" of Cthulhu material I have to again apologize. When I was writting that comment I was starting to wonder why I couldn't feel warm, as it turns out I had three days of fever induced anguish and discomfort to think about my misdeed. The comment was misplaced. I do feel that the far realm is D&D's version of Cthulhu, but this adventure had little to do with either. Additionally it is Dragon who I feel has had a slight focus on these, not Dungeon. This was a tie in adventure to Lords of Madness and had nothing to do with Cthulhu.
So for Erik and the crew I apologize for my complaint. If you have a "Innsmouth" problem there at Dungeon, I can't tell. In my opinion you have done the best job to date on balancing material and variety. Keep up the excellent work.
As of yet I have haven't finished the latest Dungeon (still getting over the flu) but what I have read is excellent. I just have the Archwood adventure left to go and have very high hopes for it as well...
Sean Mahoney
I already emailed Prison Mail calling for more adventures like The Styes. Despite the Spawn of Tharidzun looking too much like Cthulhu in its illustration, it's a smashing adventure with really horrifying flavor and the perfect break from linear dungeon crawls.
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Creative Director
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I'm glad "The Styes" is getting such a great reception. It's is one of my favorite adventures we've published in Dungeon since I came on staff as an editor back with issue #103. I'm currently running it for my Saturday campaign, and it's been an absolute blast.
If we get more submissions along these lines (that is, submissions with memorable NPCs, awesome encounter locations, and evocotive descriptions), I will be a very happy editor. We've got a few more in the works, for sure, but we can always use more!
I would like to add my praise for Mr. Pett's excellent adventure. I started running today for my Eberron game, and the players and I are enjoying interesting and heavily atmospheric adventure. This adventure fits perfectly with the feel of Eberron, and was easy to drop in with some minor changes (I put the Styes in Karlakton and changed Tharizdun to one of the daelkyr).
While fighting the manticores in the warehouse, the PCs set the crates on fire, which led to the the entire interior of the building collapsing in on itself. After fast-talking their way past the authorities, the PCs lied low for a while--until the party wizard was nearly assassinated by Harid. A lot of skulking about the crane and boat via goblin ninja and clairvoyance spells eventually culminated in a frontal assault in which the PCs completely dominated the skum, golem, and Dory.
But the tables turned when the PCs faced Sgothgath. The aboleth's illusory powers kept the party guessing until they finally noticed the "man" in the water--upon which the goblin ninja was promptly enslaved. While most of the party was occupied dealing with their mentally-controlled ally, the changeling barbarian approached the pool and was grabbed by one of the aboleth's tentacles. Upon making his Will save to disbelief the <i>veil</b> power, I showed him the illustration of Sgothgath, upon which the player was heard to declare, "What the !@#$ is that?" Unfortunately, his cries were soon silenced as he was dragged underwater and slowly crushed to death.
The party manage to bring their ally down about the same time that the aboleth finished off the barbarian. As it squirmed out of the water to snare a new victim, the wizard fired off a readied confusion spell. The only way Sgothgath could fail its save was if it rolled a natural 1...which, of course, it did. It still inflicted terrible damage before it went down, transforming the kenku rogue/wizard with its slime and nearly killing him before it was brought down.
But the adventure still isn't over yet... :)
Once again, kudos to Mr. Pett for his great contribution to the magazine!
Thanks for your positive comments everyone, its great to have feedback and particularly to see which bits are working well in others DMs campaigns, glad to hear the warehouse burnt down brainiac! I love the idea of Harid coming out and stalking the PCs! And Sean, the lantern mans original name was Jack-o-the-lantern, ala Jack the Ripper...I think the idea of involving the PCs in earlier investigations is great.
I think Richard and Greg should each hold one leg of a rubber chicken while they duel. :-)
-Amber S.
I don't mind any Cthulhu or Cthulhu-like creatures in D & D adventures personally. And I go way back to the 1st edtition Brain Collector from X-2 Castle Amber. Our party saw him in the room and we slammed the door and took off running. THAT is the essence of a Cthulhu-type creature!
I'm sure you'd have a drumstick up on your competition, Greg. Just don't forget to have Weird Al's "Eat It" playing in the background. . .
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I think Richard and Greg should each hold one leg of a rubber chicken while they duel. :-)
-Amber S.
Gav the Thri Kreen snaps out rhythem with all four hands. As Greg and Richard circle around the rubber hen and jab at each other with pencils, he intones the mantra...
"When you're a DM, your a DM all the way
From you very first Crit, till it's 3AM and you have to stop play..."
I finished reading this over the weekend, and I have to say this adventure is absolutely incredible! The flavor drips off the page!
I'll be using this - very shortly - in a game I run. I'll be making some heavy modifications to it, though. My players have been - off and on for a year now - tracking down some kidnappers in the city of Dyvers. The Styes is just the absolute perfect location for them to finally find the perps and rescue some of the missing kids.
The fit of the mood, atmosphere, etc is just too good not to use it! :D
I have had a Dungeon adventure idea rattling around in what passes for my brain for quite a while now, and reading the description of the Styes broke my creative block. The mood fits very well with the themes in my adventure, and it gave me an idea.
Is is reasonable to submit an adventure to Dungeon magazine that is specifically based in a previously described location, like the Styes? I realize that there is an upside and a downside here. Upside: the location does not need to be described in full, as it has already been done in a previous issue. Downside: the location still must be described, probably shorter and with less flavor than the original, for those who don't have access to the previous material. Of course, there's the whole issue of proprietary rights.
So, since the author of the Styes and not one but two editors of the magazine have commented in this thread, it seemed like a good place to ask the question.
Should I base my adventure idea in the Styes, or think up an original location?
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Creative Director
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You should definately set your adventure in an original location. It's okay to be inspired by "The Styes," but if we're going to do another adventure in this location, I'd prefer to have Richard Pett do the dirty work. In any case, we'd have to reprint all the information since we can't assume that any particular reader has access to the first issue the Styes appeared in. And for the Styes at least, cutting the flavor is like shooting yourself in the foot.
I finished reading Richard Pett's excellent adventure, "The Styes" last night and was suitably impressed. One aspect I liked about the adventure was its overall tone and feel.
I couldn't agree more. This is one of those adventures that reads amazingly well. The attention to the tiny details is amazing. Frankly, its one of those adventures that reads ALMOST TOO WELL. I'm afraid to run an adventure like this because I am afraid I might not be able to capture the mood that Richard does so well. And by the way, its all that much more impressive since I have little appreciation for the type of villains that appear in it.
Additionaly, I would like to compliment you on the fantastic artwork that went along with this adventure. The portraits were top-notch.
Kudos - this one is a keeper.
I'm pretty new to Lovecraft and Lovecraftian horror, but after purchasing Call of Cthulhu D20 on a whim, I proceeded to go out and buy just about every story I could find. Noting the obvious connection, I also went back to reread and replay every reference to the Far realm I could get my hands on. I am so happy to see this cross genre theme appear again and again, and Styes really put the icing on the cake.
I would trade my left arm to see an epic campain with a final battle against a Great Old One (Monte Cook, you out there?). I'm aware that a victory in this case would be very un-Lovecraftian, but fun as can be nonetheless.
"I'm afraid to run an adventure like this because I am afraid I might not be able to capture the mood that Richard does so well."
I call this "Ghosts of Mistmoor Syndrome." I'm afraid it's incurable. :)
I ran "The Styes" last weekend for my group and they thoroughly enjoyed it. I dropped in some hints regarding "The Porphyry House Horror" from Dungone #95 and plan on sending the PC's through that next. It was cool to mesh the Styes with Scuttlecove - they supprisingly fit well together. For example, since there's really no temples of good gods in the Styes, the Skindancers Enclave from Scuttlecove fits in nicely and provides the characters with a source of attainable, if not weird and kinky, healing magic - which they sorely needed after fighting Sgothgah!!!
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Creative Director
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If I were to run the Campaign Arc in FR, I think I'd set it somewhere in the Silver Marches. There's plenty of giants in the Spine of the World, and there's plenty of drow below.
As for the Black Egg... I'm afraid gauntlets won't work. Physical contact doesn't mean skin-on-egg contact. It's like a touch attack; and gauntlets aren't enough to keep the devil out.
Psst - I think you're in the wrong thread James. ;)
I ran "The Styes" last weekend for my group and they thoroughly enjoyed it. I dropped in some hints regarding "The Porphyry House Horror" from Dungone #95 and plan on sending the PC's through that next.
I think that is an excellent idea. I'm starting a campaign set in Green Ronin's Freeport this month. If the game lasts long enough, I hope to use both The Styles and Porphyry House Horror, probably following them with Strike on the Rabid Dawn. I think they all have a compatible feel and setting.
Morrow
I think that is an excellent idea. I'm starting a campaign set in Green Ronin's Freeport this month. If the game lasts long enough, I hope to use both The Styes and Porphyry House Horror, probably following them with Strike on the Rabid Dawn. I think they all have a compatible feel and setting.
Morrow
Thats realy nice of you Morrow and Rauol, Porphyry is one of my favourite dungeon adventures, its got a great grimness and taint about it which i think is a marvellous setting for adventure as no-one can be trusted - Morrow, let me know how your players get on! I'm thinking of unleasing my players on Freeport soon, its a great setting, with some fantastic adventures - not to mention some superb artwork.
Rich
Thats realy nice of you Morrow and Rauol, Porphyry is one of my favourite dungeon adventures, its got a great grimness and taint about it which i think is a marvellous setting for adventure as no-one can be trusted - Morrow, let me know how your players get on! I'm thinking of unleasing my players on Freeport soon, its a great setting, with some fantastic adventures - not to mention some superb artwork.Rich
It may be a while before they're ready for "The Styes" or "Pophery." Right now they're 1st level, dealing with rampaging sahaugin and undead pirates. They aren't going to be taking on aboleth or yuan-ti any time soon. I'm thinking about writing up their adventures and posting them over on ENWorld. If I end up doing it I'll post a link here.
Morrow
Thats realy nice of you Morrow and Rauol, Porphyry is one of my favourite dungeon adventures, its got a great grimness and taint about it which i think is a marvellous setting for adventure as no-one can be trusted - Morrow, let me know how your players get on! I'm thinking of unleasing my players on Freeport soon, its a great setting, with some fantastic adventures - not to mention some superb artwork.
Rich
It may be a while before they're ready for "The Styes" or "Pophery." Right now they're 1st level, dealing with rampaging sahaugin and undead pirates. They aren't going to be taking on aboleth or yuan-ti any time soon. I'm thinking about writing up their adventures and posting them over on ENWorld. If I end up doing it I'll post a link here.
Morrow
"Porphyry" was a great read - I'm drooling about the prospect of running my group through it; I might just have to run "The Styes" first now (if I can renew my subsc. and get a back issue...), but both will have to wait until the 'Shackled City Evil Variant' game ends...
...at the current rate, sometime next year...
M
Its always really interesting to see how the adventures run, Steve Greer is running Devil Box at the moment (details on the Destiny Stone post) and he's incorporating a lot of twists and turns that I never thought of when writing it. I'd be really interested to read how The Styes runs as I'm keen to try the setting in a couple more submissions. Its very important to find out what runs well as well as what writes well.
Thats why the feedback from this site is invaluable, for example I'm just working on an adventure closely associated with the Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan and one of the draft encounters within is straight from a link on this site about what really scares players. For anyone who hasn't read Tamoachan it is definately worth trying to get a copy, re-reading it again recently reminds me its a brilliant and very underrated adventure very akin to Tomb of Horrors.
Rich
*casts resurrection on the thread*
Richard, I've finally gotten around to running this adventure after putting a short end to Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (I ended with the Fire Temple, the first temple they attacked, due to the module being to tedious). This adventure was a great breath of fresh (or polluted) air as a I pulled the adventurers out of a dungeon crawl and into an urban adventure.
I'm about 1/3 through the adventure and the group seems to love it. There's so much great stuff going on throughout the Styes that I wish the adventure was more like a campaign setting.
My only problem is the distributed details of the character backgrounds and descriptions. I think this might have been better presented similarly to Greg and Erik's presentation of the NPCs in the Istivin arc. Too often I had to reread seperate sections just to understand all of the details about Mr. Dory, his background, and his role in the adventure.
One question for you, why aboleth's and Tharizdun as a specific combination? There were so many great possibilities in Lords of Madness such as using a Tsochari villain or using a different deity such as The Patient One or Scharossar. Although, I will admit, using a cult of Tharizdun shortly after ending RttToEE does allow for some great ideas for returning villains that were not yet disposed of by the party.
Anyway, thanks again for such an amazingly written adventure and locale. I hope that you do return us to The Styes in future adventures.
PS - I placed the Styes between Greyhawk and Midbay in the southwest corner of the Nyr Dyv and the northern end of the Selintan River.
Heh. That's funny - I changed Tharizdun to Scahrossar in my game. ;)
heehee. Yeah Richard, why can't you be more like Greg and Erik? snicker..snort
(Sorry Amaril, I couldn't resist the chance to get a dig at Rich. I guess I'm probably still bitter about the death match thing...sigh)
No need to apologize, I was already thinking it while I was writing it. ;)
*casts resurrection on the thread*
Richard, I've finally gotten around to running this adventure after putting a short end to Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (I ended with the Fire Temple, the first temple they attacked, due to the module being to tedious). This adventure was a great breath of fresh (or polluted) air as a I pulled the adventurers out of a dungeon crawl and into an urban adventure.
I'm about 1/3 through the adventure and the group seems to love it. There's so much great stuff going on throughout the Styes that I wish the adventure was more like a campaign setting.
My only problem is the distributed details of the character backgrounds and descriptions. I think this might have been better presented similarly to Greg and Erik's presentation of the NPCs in the Istivin arc. Too often I had to reread seperate sections just to understand all of the details about Mr. Dory, his background, and his role in the adventure.
One question for you, why aboleth's and Tharizdun as a specific combination? There were so many great possibilities in Lords of Madness such as using a Tsochari villain or using a different deity such as The Patient One or Scharossar. Although, I will admit, using a cult of Tharizdun shortly after ending RttToEE does allow for some great ideas for returning villains that were not yet disposed of by the party.
Anyway, thanks again for such an amazingly written adventure and locale. I hope that you do return us to The Styes in future adventures.
PS - I placed the Styes between Greyhawk and Midbay in the southwest corner of the Nyr Dyv and the northern end of the Selintan River.
Blimmey - like Mr Dory it's back from the dead...
Great to hear that The Styes is running well and that your players are enjoying it. The bottom line with the mix of Tharizdun and aboleth was that it was all James J's idea. I had originally submitted the Styes as a sahaugin adventure, with the main villain being a mutated sahaugin with more than a hint of deep sea angler fish (hence the name lantern man in the original story)(and incidentally the villain, I hasten to add, that a certain Vaughan is intending to use when he runs it.) The adventure was timely in that lords of madness was coming out and James kindly sent me a copy and asked me to try to work some parts of the book in, which was great fun.
I'd love to return to the Styes anytime, and Erik and Co are considering some adventures at the moment. The setting is the backdrop for the campaign I run at the moment and which has taken on a life of its own, and also now features a place called Spice Island (a sort of dark junglish colonial slave trader town of uunbearable heat full of badness), and Pleasant Mountain Island, an island staging post between the two locations - a place made of rubbish and infested with colossal rats and equally colossal wererats and which again, of course, is chock full of badness.
Rich
This has been a great thread, and thank you Mr. Pett for contributing to it. It has benefitted from your touch.
I think that's a great adventure too...mow I'm just trying to find a way to fit it into my campaign. Is there such a thing as too many good...great...adventures?
:)