Ok, I ranted about what I don’t like on the new Dragon (go to that forum and see, seems like I’m not the only one!), and there I said I would say what I like about Dungeon. Since I am a man of my word here it is.
Some background first. I was around when Dungeon began, and for a while I was a regular buyer and subscriber. I have always been a DM, but rarely do I use published adventures (2 times in 17 years gaming) but sometimes I did take ideas and encounters from some of the adventures, but even then that was a rare occurrence.
I dropped dungeon many years ago, and did not look back. The Contest of Champions brought me back, sort of. While I never run the adventures, I read the first one off a friends copy and liked it so much I was always on the lookout to read the next installment.
Then the Polyhedron/Dungeon merge brought me on board. I realize I was in the minority, but I loved it. The mini games were the main attraction, and all the other D20 goodies. When the new direction was announced I was concerned.
Still the definitive magazine for the DM sounded interesting. I got it and like it very much. The cover was great, CHECK, the adventures seemed interesting, had some ideas I could use, but best of all the maps and illustrations were great and these I get to use even more, CHECK! The columns although a little too simple for me seemed like a good start, Isle of dread, what fun, we need more of this style article, the NPC assassin great, and the booklet with the maps on the website was the icing on the cake.
You have a regular buyer of Dungeon, satisfied and happy. Now if Dragon could improve a little…
Sunglar
Yeah, I'm pretty impressed with the new Dungeon. I think my favorite thing is the guarantee that we will get a low, medium, and high level adventure in every issue. (I've always complained about the lack of high-level adventures.). Fantastic.
And that whole Isle of Dread thing (location details, map, *and* adventure) was just the cat's meow.
About the only thing I dislike is the new "Dungeon" logo. (And if that's the worst thing I can think of, I'm doing pretty darn good, I think.)
So far, I love everything about the new Dungeon. No complaints at all.
It remains, IMO, the "best value" product in all of gaming.
I agree.
Peace and smiles :)
j.
love the new dungeon, especially the low-, mid-, high-level adventure in each magazine. Plus I am a fan of Wil Wheatons website so like that he has a regular article in the mag
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For the most part I like the new Dungeon, but I have few problems with how the new format LOOKS. I'm okay with the new logo and the new columns and such, my main problem is that the way they've written the adventures seems to be a step down. I liked the old way where text meant for the players were inside those nice gray boxes. And just they way the adventures are arranged on the page hurts my eyes. I don't know, it just looks a little ghetto this new way.
Great changes. I really like how Dungeon now seems to be geared totally to the DM.
Awesome changes. Great magazine. It seems that Dungeon will once again return to what made it a great magazine and has even added features to make it better than it once was. Kudos.
Great Job Mr. Mona and staff.
I subscribed at GenCon and was pleased to receive a duplicate issue in my goody bag so's I could cut out visual aids. And the free t-shirt was the clincher. Say, and I realize I might be laughed out of the Nerd Club for this one, but who's the dude with the big blue helmet on the Dungeon t-shirts they were giving away with subscriptions at GenCon?
And what does the "Gen" in GenCon stand for?
And who played Lumpy on <i>Leave it to Beaver</i>?
Chief Technical Officer
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By the way, for those of you not at Gen Con, the Dungeon T-shirt is for sale at:
http://www.paizo.com/dungeon/products/apparel
-Vic.
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Unlike Dragon, I think Dungeon got it right on the first try.
A low, medium, and high adventure in each issue is perfect.
The addition of some articles to help support the DM was a good idea.
So everything is perfect but that does not mean that I do not have requests.
1. Tokens. Bring them back.
2. How about doing just once a solo adventure. I think the idea of a solo adventure can make for very different playing opportunities that normal adventures could not provide. And it could show people while it may be traditional to play with a large group of people it is still possible to do it with just a player and a DM.
Thanks again for the changes.
I wondered who that guy on my Dungeon t-shirt was...
I wondered who that guy on my Dungeon t-shirt was...
Yeah. Oddly, I started playing D&D in 1977 (FWIW, I was 5), and I still had pretty much no idea who he was before he was featured in Dungeon. Guess I should've been watching the cartoon or buying the action figure merchandise back in the early '80s. Or not. : ]
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I, too was a big fan of the former Dungeon. And, as stated above by others, I am an even bigger fan of the new format. I strongly believe that the new format satisfies the broadest possible audience. I want to see Dungeon in my mailbox for years and years to come. And this change, while bold, is an effective means in that effort. I support the magazine and trust the staff.
The new look is awesome. Great job, guys.
-------- Don (Greyson) --------
God I love warduke! I plan to scale him down and use him as a longterm villian in my current campaign. Getting his stats in that magazine was great! BTW, Id love to see a mini of warduke. HEck if they have an Mordekainen, Drizzt and Lord whatshisname, why NOT have a warduke mini!?
I'd rather have a Map of Mystery, or something else usable rather than Wil Save. My not to any famous people who play D&D and all, but I could care less if he doesn't share his dice with his step-kid.
ASEO out
The new Dungeon is next to perfect. I'm sorry to see the Star Wars RPG content disappear forever (and Dark Matter as well) but I understand and can live (and subscribe) with the decision.
The only thing I don't like about the new Dungeon is the logo. It is horrible. Still, it is a great magazine and I'm looking forward to my next issue already.
I agree that the new Title font is *bla*.
Also, since issue 111, there have been 3 Eberron covers. I know that it is the new campaign world and all, but the War Forged on the cover of 115 is dull and looks like a zoomed in view from some other art. I think the cover would have been better showing the Ice Folk from "Raiders of the Black Ice", but hey, that's just me.
ASEO out
I've been reading Dungeon Magazine since the Flame adventure sequel called "Out of the Ashes", it was the first game I DM'd as well.
The magazine has come a LONG way since then and so has the game. I will have to say that I miss the page artwork that matched with the Core Rulebooks (the tab on the side listing the adventure name and the colored gem in the bottom corner with the page number). There was something about the pages looking like the books that gave you a sense of congruency I guess.
I also understand that the same thing over and over is boring and it doesn't lend much to growth and letting the magazine develop into something that could be better. I will miss the look though, but I am also looking forward to seeing what the magazine trasforms into next.
OH, and Full Color + Monthly, leaves me wishing that there was a lifetime subscriber option. DUNGEON is my most valued DM resource!
ASEO out
Just wanted to say that the color-coded bars at the top of the adventures are EXTREMELY handy for easily picking out where one adventure stops and the next one begins. Thanks for all the good work!
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I applaud Issue #114 and am subscribing right now. I have 22 yrs. experience with DnD, and I am thrilled with the layout, content, logo font (wonderful authentic Dnd feel to it), and thank you for getting rid of the gray boxes (they were so...TSR). Thank you for keeping alive the memory and thrill for those of us who originally opened that blue TSR box (early 1980s) along with the Isle of Dred! As a seasoned DM, I truly appreciate the 'regular feature' decisions you've made here. I am pulling out the credit card right now. Thank you.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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I will chime in with my support of the content of the Dungeon! # adventures, L-M-H... great idea! Columns like Dungeon craft should have always been in dungeon.
However lose the Masthead... it blows. Even my Girlfriend said it looked retro and ugly. Blech!
Beyond that... good adventures! Mad God's Key was perfect for my current campaign!
Another one for the "I like the new format better"-list. And I like the new Logo, the cover looks much better than the last few years. (At least since 2001.)
If you could just do many big maps like Isle of Dread or the Cauldron city map back in #97 ;-)
There are two layout things I'm not a big fan of:
Colored/Boxed text: I'd prefer it return to its old look. The colored text is hard to read.
Sub headlines: The new font, a medieval-style serif, is hard to read at the current size. Either increase the point size or switch to a bolded sans serif.
Just my two cents.
Could the colored box text just be replaced by a black lined box around the text? Unsure if this is even a viable solution....
WRT the colored block text...
Just don't do what they did in Shadow of the last war. All the "read aloud" box text was not boxed, but italic. Small italic fonts are hard enough to read, but if I'm supposed to read them out loud to my group without sounding like I'm just reading...
I've seen it done will with just a line above and below the box text, and the text in a different, easily readable font. Then there is no box to worry about. And horizontal lines should be easier than boxes as far as layout.
I am very pleased with the new format for Dungeon. Very nice mix of adventures and lots of side goodies that can be sprinkled in. I'd like to say I missed the mini-games, but really only ever liked a couple of them, so no loss there. What I am especially happy about is that they finally dropped that silly core rule book page layout. I never understood that. About my only complaint is the lackluster title font. The old one was great, this one is...blah.
Could the colored box text just be replaced by a black lined box around the text? Unsure if this is even a viable solution....
When we switched our publishing software and redesigned the magazines, we looked at things that took up too much time in the production process each month, and individually boxing up the text was one of them. There are no commands in our software to box a set of paragraphs, so this all has to be done manually, which means that the text cannot be edited inline with the adventure text, and instead has to be selected by hand and edited. If the edits make the text long, then it has to go back to the design team, and we have to adjust it, and then adjust the page flow as well.
It just doesn't make sense in our production process to have such a laborious procedure bogging us down. We'd rather spend that time doing cool looking layouts, and making sure all the editing changes get entered (and making sure we hit our deadlines as well).
Hope that helps explain the whys and wherefores.
Sean Glenn
Art Director Dragon and Dungeon magazines
How about the logo, Mr. Glenn? Is there anyway to get rid of the hideous, 70's retro title font? The rest is fine, I can pretty well deal with everything thrown my way because it is a great magazine. It seems to be the consensus the logo should change.
It just doesn't make sense in our production process to have such a laborious procedure bogging us down. We'd rather spend that time doing cool looking layouts, and making sure all the editing changes get entered (and making sure we hit our deadlines as well).
I can understand this point of view but I also had problems identifying the read-out-loud-parts in dim light (ie. candle light at the games table). If boxes are not feasible, what about a different font, a bigger font size or perhaps another color with higher contrast to the rest?
How about the logo, Mr. Glenn? Is there anyway to get rid of the hideous, 70's retro title font? The rest is fine, I can pretty well deal with everything thrown my way because it is a great magazine. It seems to be the consensus the logo should change.
Hardly. As long as the content remains great, I could care less what the logo looks like. If the current logo help attract new readers, so be it. I personally prefer the new format's covers to the old - less clutter and more showcasing of the artwork.
Hardly. As long as the content remains great, I could care less what the logo looks like. If the current logo help attract new readers, so be it. I personally prefer the new format's covers to the old - less clutter and more showcasing of the artwork.How about the
logo, Mr. Glenn? Is there anyway to get rid of the hideous, 70's retro title font? The rest is fine, I can pretty well deal with everything thrown my way because it is a great magazine. It seems to be the consensus the logo should change.
I don't know if you read the readers suggestions above you, Mr. Duke, but a lot of people are making the suggestion that the new logo is retro. You are giving your opinion and that is fine. We are making the suggestion that we personally don't like it as buyers of this magazine.That is our opinion as well.
How about the logo, Mr. Glenn? Is there anyway to get rid of the hideous, 70's retro title font? The rest is fine, I can pretty well deal with everything thrown my way because it is a great magazine. It seems to be the consensus the logo should change.
As we've said a few times before, we needed a new masthead in order to increase visibility on the newsstand, which is where we bring in new readers and new subscribers. If you look at your local newsstand, you'll find that the bold, decisive forms adorn every best selling magazine. So, in order to compete visually, we needed a masthead that is an instant read as you move through the newsstand with your eyes. The artwork serves to draw the reader in, and that is what gives the magazine it's fantasy feel. An overwrought, gothic, spindly logo doesn't serve any of those purposes. And, as 3E has gone away from traditional fantasy to forge new ground visually, we didn't want to harken back to old, tired calligraphic treatments.
Additionally, it's not a video game logo, and we're not sitting on a shelf, individually face out, so a gothic logo (ala Neverwinter Nights) is not going to serve our purposes either.
I wouldn't say that the logo is retro at all and certainly does not reference the 1970s. The letterforms are all drawn from late 1800s and early 1900s British san serif designs and pub lettering, with a little hint of uncial calligraphy thrown in.
Have we made the 100% correct decision? Time will tell, and if we need to change it, we will.
Sean Glenn
Art Director Dragon and Dungeon magazines
Sean, I'm just curious, but how will time tell. I could see a spike showing up in newstand sales, but how do you know if its a logo, the artwork, or the content change?
For the record, the font is fine for me, and I really like the less cluttered cover look that shows more of the artwork. Of course, I'm a subscriber, so the cover isn't aimed at me at all. :)
Thanks to all the Paizo staff for great magazines (hey, thanks to the contributors as well.)
Sean Glenn - "If you look at your local newsstand, you'll find that the bold, decisive forms adorn every best selling magazine. So, in order to compete visually, we needed a masthead that is an instant read as you move through the newsstand with your eyes."
I agree with Master of Dungeons that the cover is just fine and is much better than the silly crap with the goofy "headlines" on it. However, the explanation above is downright silly as well. We got into this over on the Dragon boards, but this "everyone else is doing this so we have to as well" mentality is ridiculous. This is a nitch market magazine. Making it appear like Cosmo, SI, etc, and making the interior immitate thier format is not going to magically make it sell better. You want to sell more magazines? Give readers what they want: good content. Useable content.
Dungeon has done that. The rest is academic.
Sorry guys, don't want to reopen this wound. I like the cover just fine, but I'm not going to renew or cancel my subscription based on the interior or exterior layout of the magazine.
I agree whole heartedly with you, tmcdon. The people who buy Dungeon will buy it regardless of what the cover looks like. I hope I didn't open any wounds by my strong statements: I, personally don't like the title font. I love this magazine no matter the title font, typeface, cartoons, articles and price. Hey, I was buying this magazine when leprachauns were painting cows on the cover in anime, I am sure I could deal with a different font.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Guys,
We've heard your comments on the title font.
We hope that you enjoy the cover illustrations and the fine writing and art that goes into each issue of Dungeon magazine. We work very hard each month to ensure that we're presenting a quality product for an appropriate price.
Our professional experience suggests that the bold, easy-to-read title will help us attract more newsstand buyers. For that reason, the title is staying for the time being. When we get around to reevaluating the titles somewhere down the road (certainly not for another six months at the earliest), we'll take all of your comments into consideration again, and will measure them against the sales data we have accumulated in the meantime.
Until then, the title is what it is, and isn't changing.
Thanks,
Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dungeon
Guys,
We've heard your comments on the title font.
We hope that you enjoy the cover illustrations and the fine writing and art that goes into each issue of Dungeon magazine. We work very hard each month to ensure that we're presenting a quality product for an appropriate price.
Our professional experience suggests that the bold, easy-to-read title will help us attract more newsstand buyers. For that reason, the title is staying for the time being. When we get around to reevaluating the titles somewhere down the road (certainly not for another six months at the earliest), we'll take all of your comments into consideration again, and will measure them against the sales data we have accumulated in the meantime.
Until then, the title is what it is, and isn't changing.
Thanks,
Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dungeon
It's ok Erik! If the biggest thing folks can find to pick on Dungeon about is the logo font you're doing pretty freakin good. Dungeon looks as good as it ever has, it has never been a more useful tool. You've taken Dungeon to a new place and it looks great. Look at Dungeon's board as opposed to Dragon's. Dungeon looks great and folks are complimenting you.