Paladin Code for Gozreh (yeah, that's right)

TL;DR: If you had to develop a code of conduct for a hardcore worshiper of Gozreh (maybe even one that happened to be a paladin), what would it contain?

So far I'll say he's highly motivated on continuing with the adventure path, seeing the weather manipulation of Irrisen (along with their enslavement of elementals and perversion of fey) as the greatest sin possible in the eyes of his "father".

I would likely think a respect for nature, would be in order.

Here I go with a tentative first draft:

I am a protector of the natural world. I shall not stand idle while nature is being destroyed or corrupted. Though I do recognize civilization's place in it, I will work to preserve the boundaries between those two worlds. I will strive to educate whenever possible so that mankind may respect and preserve the bounties of Gozreh. I shall bring the wrath of the storm to those unable or unwilling to learn. My actions at these circumstances will be quick and decisive, burning out the festering wound before it may corrupt the rest of the body.

Those who manipulate, enslave or corrupt natural forces are a bane to the natural cycle and must be destroyed. Elemental enprisonment and undeath are an abomination and a blatant attempt at distorting the natural order. I will destroy undead whenever possible and should work towards freeing any elemental or fey controlled against their will. I will destroy any corrupted natural forces without pity or remorse, knowing their destruction frees them to join the cycle once more.

I will never pollute the sky or despoil the natural world unless that action is absolutely necessary for their own survival and the end result is an improvement upon their health. I should strive to do so whenever I perceive a problem, but first I must understand the land and its intricacies before acting. That way, I may weed out damaging plants or hunt a particular animal to keep balance between predator and prey, but only after ascertaining they would provoke an unstable environment.

I will reject the moral corruption that comes along with civilization. For that purpose I shall resist its lures and vices, always acting with moderation. An object is a tool with which to accomplish an objective, nothing more. I should own the necessary tools to reach my goals - to have more than you can carry or will need is foolish. I aim to have simple tools only lighly worked so that they may more easily be reintegrated back to nature after my passing.

Have you seen the Deity specific Paladin Codes in Faiths of Purity?

Yeah, I wanted to build a code of conduct like those. For this one I took some tips from the Gozreh part of Faiths of Balance (the taboos, religion goals, etc).

A "hardcore respect for nature" would entail a strict TRUE NEUTRAL alignment. A proper follower for Gozreh would be a Druid or Ranger, not a Paladin or Anti-Paladin, as Gozreh could not care less for any of the virtues of Law or Good or their opposites.

If you really insist on this go dig up James Jacobs old Dragon article on alternate Paladins. (He's not particurlarly fond of it though) He wrote up the Paramander which seeks to balance all fources and the Paramandyr who acheives balance by destroying anything strongly aligned off neutrality.

Yeah...Paladin and Gozreh just aren't really compatible in my opinion. While there is no actual rules restriction on whom a Paladin can worship and they don't technically need to recieve their abilities from a deity, the ideas of Lawful Good don't really mesh with the true neutral nature of Gozreh.

There's just not really any overlap between the concept of Paladin and a worshiper of Gozreh.

Honestly, your first draft there seems to have decent amount of similarities to Erastil and his paladin code. So I would recommend you check that out.

Have you considered the Inquisitor?

Or the war priest? War priest is the holy warrior paladin-esque flavor without the alignment restrictions (or the deity restriciton by normal extension of how people would interact with deities based on alignment, which isn't a rule but just an opinion).

Yes...more than anything I think your character sounds like a War Priest of Gozreh.

Well, Faiths of Balance includes Gozreh (among other gods), and there is a section that specifically calls out that Adabar is the only deity in the book with a Paladin Order.

Gozreh, being True Neutral, is two steps away from Lwaful Good, so you couldn't worship him and be a Paladin (at least, not for long...).

Of course, that doesn't have to change your character concept - the character is already potentially either a fruit loop, or actually partially divine.

Yeah, I wanted to build a code of conduct like those. For this one I took some tips from the Gozreh part of Faiths of Balance (the taboos, religion goals, etc).

Start with Erastil's code and modify from there.

I don't see how a Paladin of Gozreh would work. Order/'laws' can be found in nature: Insects, social animals, naturally occuring structures, etc. can all have orderly, predictable behaviours/patterns.

However, there is also a good deal of chaos/randomness and really no good/evil.

That said, if you really want to make one, I'd use Lord Fyre's suggestion.

I would actually suggest the Holy Vindicator. Yes, I know, a PrC in a Pathfinder build, what heresy! Now, I think most PF PrCs are flavor at best and a complete waste of space most of the time, but this one might be an exception: it does offer clerics (who do have a bit of the holy warrior vibe) a full BAB option with 7/10 casting. You don't need a special code because, as a cleric, you already have one: your church's dogma.

Here I go with a tentative first draft:

This looks like a good code, actually.

A *cleric* of Gozreh can be Lawful Neutral or Neutral Good, and still function according to the tenets of Gozreh, and a worshipper of any god can be any alignment at all (since they aren't clerics), so someone who borrows from the LN and NG-friendlier aspects of Gozreh's faith should be able to maintain a LG alignment.

Natural law, and a powerful resistance to that which is considered unnatural, would make sense to be a priority of the lawful aspects.

(Note that 'unnatural' in a game setting where an entire class of creatures is *naturally* powered by negative energy, and where fey and elementals and genies are all extra-planar visitors, unnatural to the material plane by pretty much any definition of the term, are present on summon nature's ally lists and considered 'natural,' to druids... So, like many words with no hard and fast definition, you get to decide what is 'natural' and 'unnatural' to a follower of Gozreh yourself, cherry picking whatever creatures you think are pretty or icky, such as dinosaurs (unnatural anachronisms!), elves (invasive alien species!), aberrations (obviously!), magical beasts (corruptions of nature!), all undead, fey and outsiders, etc.)

Someone who focuses on the 'good' of nature could have a somewhat harsh sense of justice, considering nature to be ruthlessly fair and unbiased, playing no favorites and affording neither preference nor pettiness in it's actions. While some individual event might seem cruel or unjust, nature itself is never so, and provides what is needed, without mollycoddling the weak or foolish.

Alternately, and more kindly perhaps (although there are plenty of ruthless genocidal dicks out there being Paladins, so being kindly is hardly a class requirement...), they might also see themselves as the balancing factor, for when the uncaring storm, merely a natural event, and neither a force for good or evil, rains down on the just and unjust alike, offering shelter and succor to those who have goodness in their hearts. A 'more good' sort of Paladin than the game strictly requires could see themselves as the sheltering hand that protects the worthy from the storm, and a provider of medicine, sustenance, etc. bringing the gifts of the natural world (such as herbs for medicine or fish or game or clean water for sustenance and survival) to those in need, as well as defending honest folk from unnatural forces, corruptive entities, natural disasters (which are more Rovagug's bailiwick than Gozreh's), etc. I personally prefer my Paladins on the 'less evil / genocidal' end of the spectrum, so I'd go with this, over the harsher concept in the previous paragraph, which feels more LN-ish.

The Pathfinder Core rules don't forbid or encourage this sort of thing (Paladins of non Lawful and / or Good gods), but the Golarion *setting* so far, textually, only provides Paladin codes for about half of the LG, LN and NG gods (there are no Paladin codes for twelve of the LG, LN and NG gods in Gods & Magic, or the dozens of other options among the Empyreal Lords), which can be interpreted to mean that any not already covered are off-limits. It's possible that Pathfinder Society rules have some written text forbidding Paladins of Desna or Gozreh or Pharasma (who, frankly, is *far* more thematically suitable to have Paladins than Shelyn or Irori, despite being Neutral-in-name-only) or whomever, but that's not something you need to worry about if you aren't planning on playing this character in Pathfinder Society play.

As long as your GM is okay with it, go for it. (Individual Paladins varying from 'Paladins of Asmodeus are go!' to 'No Paladins at my table, 'cause I'm sick of all the PVP.')

You need to ask what is evil in the context of the religion you follow.

Typical topics of interest:

Murder
What is the religion's definition of murder? When is killing something justified? Does the concept of murder only pertain to intelligent humanoids?

Slavery
What is slavery? Does it apply to only intelligent humanoids?

Theft
How does this work in relation to nature?

Sex
This is more about the creation of abominations and mating outside your kind. Are there types of creatures that are evil in relation to the natural order? What happens when they are actively trying to be more in line with the natural order?

You should also ask what the concepts of justice and mercy are like in relation to the natural order.

You need to ask what is evil in the context of the religion you follow.

Typical topics of interest:

Murder
What is the religion's definition of murder? When is killing something justified? Does the concept of murder only pertain to intelligent humanoids?

Slavery
What is slavery? Does it apply to only intelligent humanoids?

Theft
How does this work in relation to nature?

Sex
This is more about the creation of abominations and mating outside your kind. Are there types of creatures that are evil in relation to the natural order? What happens when they are actively trying to be more in line with the natural order?

You should also ask what the concepts of justice and mercy are like in relation to the natural order.

Slavery and Theft happen in nature. Some ant species raid another ant species colonies to capture slaves and food (stealing). I think murder would pertain to intelligent humanoids and your questions of sex are interesting.

A *cleric* of Gozreh can be Lawful Neutral or Neutral Good, and still function according to the tenets of Gozreh, and a worshipper of any god can be any alignment at all (since they aren't clerics), so someone who borrows from the LN and NG-friendlier aspects of Gozreh's faith should be able to maintain a LG alignment.

This.

Warpriest of Gozreh actually sounds pretty cool.

Especially a Wereshark-Kin Skinwalker Warpriest of Gozreh.

FRIKKEN JAWSOME!!

Warpriest of Gozreh actually sounds pretty cool.

Especially a Wereshark-Kin Skinwalker Warpriest of Gozreh.

FRIKKEN JAWSOME!!

Had to favorite this.

Hell, as a Warpriest of Gozreh, you can rock an improved Gozreh's Trident.

Be the shape-shifting shark shocker!

The character is already made and well in play (we've reached Whitethrone in Irrisen). It's also fun as hell to play (although some times I have to judge my actions very carefully).

He's supposedly been Chaotic Evil, focusing on the destructive aspects of nature, and got "kicked out" for being out of balance. Now he's doing the exact opposite to try and balance out (learning the aspects of nurture and protection in nature and human life instead of the destruction and wanton violence).

Let's forget about the "paladin" part and focus on "a code of conduct for a worshiper of Gozreh".

Start with Erastil's code and modify from there.

I checked it first thing, but Erastil is much more a "rural good guy" god than a nature god. Of his 7 tenets, 6 deal with community, reputation (which a worshipper of Gozreh couldn't care less) and generally being a nice guy.

So I started with Gozreh's write-up on Faiths of Balance and went from there. What are you guys' opinions on the first draft?

The character is already made and well in play (we've reached Whitethrone in Irrisen). It's also fun as hell to play (although some times I have to judge my actions very carefully).

He's supposedly been Chaotic Evil, focusing on the destructive aspects of nature, and got "kicked out" for being out of balance. Now he's doing the exact opposite to try and balance out (learning the aspects of nurture and protection in nature and human life instead of the destruction and wanton violence).

Let's forget about the "paladin" part and focus on "a code of conduct for a worshiper of Gozreh".

It's simple... think Druid. But more along the strength predator type as opposed to a treehugger.

Well, Faiths of Balance includes Gozreh (among other gods), and there is a section that specifically calls out that Adabar is the only deity in the book with a Paladin Order.

Gozreh, being True Neutral, is two steps away from Lwaful Good, so you couldn't worship him and be a Paladin (at least, not for long...).

Of course, that doesn't have to change your character concept - the character is already potentially either a fruit loop, or actually partially divine.

I laughed at "fruit loop". Thanks for that :)

Interesting enough, I myself do not know what his true origin should be (I left it for the GM to decide).

I'm just gonna get this out here: The rules of the game allow paladins that derive their powers solely from their dedication as a "reward for their righteousness". There isn't a single mention of deities or gods on the entire paladin write-up.

The game also puts no limits on the alignment of a deity's worshipers. A worshiper needs to obey the dictates of his/her faith and not commit sins against its doctrine.

As long as your GM is okay with it, go for it.

I made sure to talk to him extensively about this concept before writing down the first number on the sheet. He's on board with it.

Actually, first I tried to see if he would accept some sort of variant paladin of a different alignment; considering specially that that character would have a pretty strict code of conduct. That was a no-go, but he accepted the concept as a regular paladin.

You need to ask what is evil in the context of the religion you follow.

Typical topics of interest:

Murder
What is the religion's definition of murder? When is killing something justified? Does the concept of murder only pertain to intelligent humanoids?

Slavery
What is slavery? Does it apply to only intelligent humanoids?

Theft
How does this work in relation to nature?

Sex
This is more about the creation of abominations and mating outside your kind. Are there types of creatures that are evil in relation to the natural order? What happens when they are actively trying to be more in line with the natural order?

You should also ask what the concepts of justice and mercy are like in relation to the natural order.

OK let's take a good look at those.

Murder
I believe by Gozreh's standards, killing (anything) both as defense and to achieve a purpose (feeding, protecting territory, etc) is accepted as a part of the natural cycle. Relishing in the kill, dragging it out or torture, though, are considered "sins". You should have a purpose to justify killing someone and preferably the body should be "naturalized" (left for animals to feed, buried so it will decompose, etc).

Slavery
Slavery as-is I feel is mostly a civilization issue which Gozreh probably doesn't cover. But enslaving an elemental or "nature spirit" (fey/kami) is a disruption to the natural order of things (since they aren't doing their job on the natural word once you control them) and a major sin.

Theft
If you take a bone from a wolf, it will come back and bite you to recover that. Or it might not. Either way, I don't think Gozreh cares too much about property. So stealing should not be a sin in itself (although if you don't have a pretty good reason to steal that thing you're probably stealing for greed's sake and that's sinful).

Sex
Nature generally finds a way. There are a lot of hybrid species out there. The creature types I feel are "evil" (and by that I mean must be destroyed) in Gozreh's eyes are mainly those that are "warped" versions of natural creatures (generally by an outside force). Undead by definition are not alive , and instead of occupying their place in the natural system (i.e. rotting and moving on) exist indefinitely. Most aberrations should fall on this category. Magical beasts, although themselves not natural by definition, tend to coexist with their environment, finding a niche and sticking to it.

The thing is; just as easily as a worshiper of Gozreh should kill a dozen wolves (or foxes, or big cats) to ensure they do not deplete a region's resources he/she will destroy an undead or magical beast (or humanoid) that threatens the balance of a region.

I laughed at "fruit loop". Thanks for that :)

Always happy to help ;)

The game also puts no limits on the alignment of a deity's worshipers. A worshiper needs to obey the dictates of his/her faith and not commit sins against its doctrine.

That is kind of the point. Cleric's HAVE to be no more than one step away from their deity. You are right that the rules don't specify about Paladins, although PFS added a house rule about it. But, if a Paladin is going to follow his code (and be unswervingly Lawful and Good), then this is highly likely to conflict at some point with the dogma of a True Neutral deity.

That is kind of the point. Cleric's HAVE to be no more than one step away from their deity. You are right that the rules don't specify about Paladins, although PFS added a house rule about it. But, if a Paladin is going to follow his code (and be unswervingly Lawful and Good), then this is highly likely to conflict at some point with the dogma of a True Neutral deity.

Possibly. And that should be a fun moment to figure out (Itend to think that conflict provides awesome character development). As-is I'm having more trouble with the "Respect authority" paladin tenet and the whole AP (that's basically focused on "kick the current authority out of its seat, acting as outlaws all the while").

If you think this character is an oddball, consider he also has a pet dog called "Little Thunder" which he insists is his faithful hound servant won on a bet with Cayden Cailean. It is also his divine bond (oh, and it has the Bodyguard archetype!).

OK let's take a good look at those.

Murder
I believe by Gozreh's standards, killing (anything) both as defense and to achieve a purpose (feeding, protecting territory, etc) is accepted as a part of the natural cycle. Relishing in the kill, dragging it out or torture, though, are considered "sins". You should have a purpose to justify killing someone and preferably the body should be "naturalized" (left for animals to feed, buried so it will decompose, etc).

Slavery
Slavery as-is I feel is mostly a civilization issue which Gozreh probably doesn't cover. But enslaving an elemental or "nature spirit" (fey/kami) is a disruption to the natural order of things (since they aren't doing their job on the natural word once you control them) and a major sin.

Theft
If you take a bone from a wolf, it will come back and bite you to recover that. Or it might not. Either way, I don't think Gozreh cares too much about property. So stealing should not be a sin in itself (although if you don't have a pretty good reason to steal that thing you're probably stealing for greed's sake and that's sinful).

Sex
Nature generally finds a way. There are a lot of hybrid species out there. The creature types I feel are "evil" (and by...

Follow up questions!

Slavery:
What about domesticated animals? Are they slaves? What about taking wild animals from their natural habitat and putting them in captivity?

Theft:
What about logging and mining? Are there any situations when those cross over into theft of nature? Are there appropriate kinds of logging and mining?