Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Book of the Damned (PFRPG)

Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.

So, looking through the Malebranche, I noticed something interesting. Some of the names are familiar to me.

Scarlimonge, Barrbaccia, Caganazzo, Rubicante.

Those are the four fiends of the elements from FF4!

Now, I know those names originally came from the Divine Comedy (like all the Malebranche, hence why they all have Italian names), but I noticed Rubicante is similar to how he is in FF4. (His areas of concern are fire and honor, and in the game Rubicante was the fiend of fire, and he was an honorable opponent, always healing your party before you fought him).

Now, none of the other of the four fiend names corresponded to their namesakes, so I decided to look around at the rest of the Malbranche, and see who connected to what.

Ironically, The Pathfinder Scarlimonge seems to correspond to FF Cagnazzo (Water element, specializes in deception, since in FF Cagnazzo disguised himself as a human captain of the guard to lure the heroes into a trap." For the Earth fiend we have Draghignazzo, who connects because he's an earth fiend. But the wind fiend, Libicocco' background makes me think that she is a direct reference to FF Barbaccia, since it says she is the "Proud lady of winds", and she was once part of a team of four other fiends who tried to conquer other worlds. Which makes me think she was the survivor of FF4 while the other Malebranche were killed.

So Paizo staff, am I right in my suspicions here? Was FF some level of motivation for some of the writeups for the Malebranche?

I suspect FF did inspire these fiends in some way, since Wes Schneider was the one who designed the Maelbranche in the original Book of the Damned, and Wes Schneider is a certified FF fan.

That said, they're not direct ports, and the primary inspiration for them all (for us AND for Square, I suspect) remains Dante.

Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.

This is not only RAD, but is also fascinating. I'm pretty sure that 3D prints of creatures based on our art and design was never really anticipated by the community use license (maybe it was... dunno), but I guess it would still be covered by it?

Yup, the void yai shogun knows and pays tribute openly. In the same way a priest of any faith would pay tithes or sacrifice to the gods.

As for how the oni daimyo gain their wealth and standing... it's by sheer virtue of the fact that they're immortal divinities who have been doing what they're doing in various ways for many many centuries, and have become very good at it. They function in the shadows and their "rule" is less of one akin to a king or queen on a throne and more like the god who inspires the king or queen.

Thank you Mr. Jacobs. I guess I was misinterpreting the daimyo as very powerful warlords, rather than as objects of religious devotion.

James Jacobs wrote:

Yup, the void yai shogun knows and pays tribute openly. In the same way a priest of any faith would pay tithes or sacrifice to the gods.

As for how the oni daimyo gain their wealth and standing... it's by sheer virtue of the fact that they're immortal divinities who have been doing what they're doing in various ways for many many centuries, and have become very good at it. They function in the shadows and their "rule" is less of one akin to a king or queen on a throne and more like the god who inspires the king or queen.

Thank you Mr. Jacobs. I guess I was misinterpreting the daimyo as very powerful warlords, rather than as objects of religious devotion.

Ah, yah.

In this case, the "daimyo" in "Oni Daimyo" is serving the same role as the word "lord" in "demon lord" or "usher" in "Psychopomp usher."

"Oni Daimyo" is just the name of the pantheon of oni divinities.

All I know is the Jester Prince is still the best Maelbranche for me. ;)

FallenDabus wrote:

Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.

This is not only RAD, but is also fascinating. I'm pretty sure that 3D prints of creatures based on our art and design was never really anticipated by the community use license (maybe it was... dunno), but I guess it would still be covered by it?

FallenDabus is seriously cool! They also made a 3D printable model of my home game's version of Tegresin the Laughing Fiend (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2561365).

I highly recommend their Planescape Bestiary blog!

If any of the developers are willing to answer I've got a question. Was Kaikyton directly inspired by the Junji Ito manga Army of One?

Gotta wonder what The Spiral would be, Genus Loci? Plus that weird guy who gets stuck with the electric cat *KRAKAZOOM!*

Junji has also done a normal comic detailing his life with a house cat. Same creepy art but it is kinda sweet.

Alex Smith 908 wrote:

If any of the developers are willing to answer I've got a question. Was Kaikyton directly inspired by the Junji Ito manga Army of One?

Gotta wonder what The Sprial would be, Genus Loci? Plus that weird guy who gets stuck with the electric cat *KRAKAZOOM!*

Junji has also done a normal comic detailing his life with a house cat. Same creepy art but it is kinda sweet.

Yeah, Junji Ito apparently reacts to cute kitties the same way he reacts to lovecraftian horrors. Its kind of sweet really.

MannyGoblin wrote:

Alex Smith 908 wrote:

If any of the developers are willing to answer I've got a question. Was Kaikyton directly inspired by the Junji Ito manga Army of One?

Gotta wonder what The Sprial would be, Genus Loci? Plus that weird guy who gets stuck with the electric cat *KRAKAZOOM!*

Junji has also done a normal comic detailing his life with a house cat. Same creepy art but it is kinda sweet.

Yeah, Junji Ito apparently reacts to cute kitties the same way he reacts to lovecraftian horrors. Its kind of sweet really.

I think he has also done work for Pokemon!

Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.

What does it say that at first glance, I read this as Pepsidaemon?

FallenDabus wrote:

Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.

What does it say that at first glance, I read this as Pepsidaemon?

You are aware of how evil that drink is.

FallenDabus wrote:

Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.

What does it say that at first glance, I read this as Pepsidaemon?

Introducing the newest Daemon Harbinger: Arcecola, Daemon Harbinger of cheapness, being a poor host, and store brand generic products.

His Obedience is you have to buy generic store brand Soda and chips and serve it at a party and then deny that you got generic brand when you get called on it. +4 bonus to saves vs. Poison.

Charon:..... WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF IDEAS SHUT UP.

Readerbreeder wrote:

FallenDabus wrote:

Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.

What does it say that at first glance, I read this as Pepsidaemon?

You are aware of how evil that drink is.

Eh, I'm on team pepsi. Maybe its just because drinks have real sugar over here .-.

I finally got a physical copy of the book and I love it. So very many great things inside.

I am very amused by that new art of Asmodeus. I wonder if he looks like that when he goes out to make diabolic contracts; most people would be quicker to cut a deal with someone who looks dumb enough to be tricked rather than a coldly masterful prince of darkness, after all.

And after they're dead and in the Pit, they can spend the rest of eternity learning just how foolish they were.

So I'm having this conversation with someone who is annoyed at Szuriel article in the book. Since 1) they feel Szuriel feeling gratitude for Lamashtu is out of character 2) it doesn't even make sense because Lamashtu killed Roshmolem the Steel Weaver and not Ortaro of the Ten Thousand Screams her really badass predessor she killed herself, so why would she lack antipathy for Lamashtu because she killed her predecessor's predecessor? Especially since Ortaro was much worse opponent than Roshmolem(who is considered stain upon reputation of Horsemen)?

So can anyone give their thoughts on the matter whether this is continuity error or retcon, since this conversation is about whether this is retcon or not? xD I feel like they raised pretty good point of that seeming really weird things to say.

(they in general feel like Daemons have been nerfed to make them feel weaker than before, but I'm not touching that argument)

So I'm having this conversation with someone who is annoyed at Szuriel article in the book. Since 1) they feel Szuriel feeling gratitude for Lamashtu is out of character 2) it doesn't even make sense because Lamashtu killed Roshmolem the Steel Weaver and not Ortaro of the Ten Thousand Screams her really badass predessor she killed herself, so why would she lack antipathy for Lamashtu because she killed her predecessor's predecessor? Especially since Ortaro was much worse opponent than Roshmolem(who is considered stain upon reputation of Horsemen)?

So can anyone give their thoughts on the matter whether this is continuity error or retcon, since this conversation is about whether this is retcon or not? xD I feel like they raised pretty good point of that seeming really weird things to say.

(they in general feel like Daemons have been nerfed to make them feel weaker than before, but I'm not touching that argument)

No error or Retcon.

1) her article in Rasputin Must Die mentions that Lamashtu holds a grudge against her, but it doesn’t mention anything from Szuriel’s POV.

2) Yes, Lamashtu killed Roshmolem which left an opening for a long time. A time she spent planning and consolidating her power until Ortaro took power whom she promptly killed. If she hadn’t taken out Roshmolem there wouldn’t have been the power vacuum.

And Roshmolem’s “stain” has to do with him divulging the secrets of creating demons to Lamashtu after she tortured him. That “weakness” is what the Horseman despise, his battle prowess is not even brought up.

Umm, but it doesn't really make sense for Szuriel not hate Lamashtu if Lamashtu considers her one of her enemies. Especially since Szuriel hates everyone. Like, it just feels like writer of Szuriel article wasn't shown all of related material to the article .-.

And that power vacuum reasoning feels bit of a stretch as reason to feel gratitude.

Stretch maybe but not a leap over a mountain.

As for Szuriel not hating Lamashtu, I figure it's more because Szuriel figures she can kill a god. Eventually.

Nah, power vaccuum makes sense - without Lamashtu's invasion, Szuriel would probably still be a harbinger.

Lamashtu's also the goddess of numerous super prolific yet short-lived cannon fodder races.

Lamashtu's one of the main engines in the multiverse that drives war forward.

If anything, Szuriel's job would conceivably be a lot harder without Lamashtu.

Now, I can see Lamashtu not liking any daemons at all in the slightest (Lamashtu is essentially a corrupted goddess of life, after all), but the daemons of Abaddon being well aware of how they benefit for her efforts.

Hell, goblins are usually neutral evil (and I suspect usually not religious enough to actually qualify for the Abyssal divine realms of Lamashtu or the Barghest Hero Gods). Gobbos in of themselves probably make up a giant chunk of the Hunted (and thus future daemons).

Isn't that a screwed up thing? Abaddon's quite possibly dependent on Lamashtu's leftovers to keep itself functioning.

Edit: And now I'm thinking about the Gobbo stretches of Abaddon, where the Hunted gather in packs, sing absurd songs, and try to gang up on, kill, and eat anyone and anything that enters the region, with no regard to their own relative lack of actual power.

Hell, goblins are usually neutral evil (and I suspect usually not religious enough to actually qualify for the Abyssal divine realms of Lamashtu or the Barghest Hero Gods). Gobbos in of themselves probably make up a giant chunk of the Hunted (and thus future daemons).

Edit: And now I'm thinking about the Gobbo stretches of Abaddon, where the Hunted gather in packs, sing absurd songs, and try to gang up on, kill, and eat anyone and anything that enters the region, with no regard to their own relative lack of actual power.

And that's why we love the little goons. Nothing gets them down for long.

Umm, but it doesn't really make sense for Szuriel to not hate Lamashtu considering Lamashtu hates her and Szuriel hates EVERYONE. Ye aren't addressing that

Well, Szuriel hates everyone except Lamashtu. Lamashtu hating Szuriel hardly has any effect on how Szuriel feels.

Well, Szuriel hates everyone except Lamashtu. Lamashtu hating Szuriel hardly has any effect on how Szuriel feels.

Agreed, just because some hates you doesn’t automatically make you hate them back, especially if you know that doing so makes them hate you even more, which I’m sure Szuriel is aware of.

Szuriel not hating Lamashtu does not mean Szuriel will not destroy Lamashtu if she has the opportunity

Just that Szuriel will target other deities first because she hates their guts and they have no redeeming value while Szuriel feels she gained much from Lamashtu's actions. A kind of professional courtesy if you will

Ye guys aren't providing good reason there. I mean, why would Lamashtu creating the power vacuum result in Szuriel not hating Lamashtu? That isn't any kind of personal favor towards her so thats really weak reasoning. Sure, it technically doesn't contradict anything previously stated, but its weird and doesn't make much of sense.

...?

I'd say you have been given plenty of good reasons, whereas you aren't providing one. Your whole argument hinges on "she hates me so I need to hate her back just as equally, just because".

Lamashtu created the power vacuum that allowed her to ascend to Horseman status. So Szuriel feels a kind of backhanded gratitude towards Lamashtu, which probably infuriates her further. Szuriel doesn't hate Lamashtu, but nowhere does it say she likes her either.

*shrugs* I'm not sure why you think I'm trying to convince you guys of anything(I was asking you guys to clarify how this new information makes consistent sense with Szuriel's previous portrayal, not asking to be told "Well it hasn't been previously said she hates Lamashtu specifically", that doesn't really address source of my confusion), but I don't want to continue this conversation anymore because I'm starting to feel ganged upped here for expressing my confusion.

You stated, and repeatedly stated, an odd stance that others such as myself disagree with. Sorry you feel ganged up on and that we weren't able to clear up your confusion, but at this point we've given multiple reasons and explanations.

Professional courtesy is the best explanation.

Or from a different view, the player doesn't hate the pawn.

If anything, the Four Horseman's relationship with Lamashtu is probably pretty complicated.

As the Demon Queen of the Abyss, she is essentially the daemons' greatest creation.

The fact that she invaded Abaddon and largely whupped her "parents" just emphasizes that the daemons successfully created an engine of destruction that exceeded them.

Lamashtu's endless drive to fill the multiverse with her brood also simultaneously advances the work of all four Horsemen as collateral damage, as her servitor races endlessly spread famine, disease, war, and death.

Yet the Horsemen cannot overlook that as long as Lamashtu exists, they can never actually complete their task of annihilation.

It's like if Sisyphus, while just pushing his boulder along, got the idea to raise a hill in his route - some extra effort to reach the top, yet easy rolling after cresting - and accidentally raised Gangkhar Puensum instead.

I think Zhangar hit the nail on the head.

Or the Horsemen of War slices off heads. Either works.

I really do enjoy the occult rituals with this book. Great new options for summoning fiends, turning oneself into a fiend, and trapping souls for trading with fiends. And they all have suitably nasty effects if you blow the rituals. I consider the latter to be the best aspect of the ritual system as well as a great explanation for why in a magical world they aren't well known. When doing that 'simple' ritual has the chance you'll be torn limb from limb by an enraged demon or devil, word gets around.

The various fiendish boons are great too, especially the ones that transform their possessor. I do wonder if the one boon Baphomet offers, giving his servitor a fiendish aurochs, might be changed to granting a man-eating aurochs with the template from the Worldwound AP. It is described there as something especially sacred to Baphomet's faith, and as something he'd give to loyal worshipers.

I'm with you Eric. The occult rituals (especially now) are what sells me on doing MORE stuff with fiends for those NPCs that might not be able to cast Gate, but could theoretically find ways to offer sacrifices for fiends.

James Jacobs wrote:

FallenDabus wrote:

Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.

This is not only RAD, but is also fascinating. I'm pretty sure that 3D prints of creatures based on our art and design was never really anticipated by the community use license (maybe it was... dunno), but I guess it would still be covered by it?

FallenDabus is seriously cool! They also made a 3D printable model of my home game's version of Tegresin the Laughing Fiend (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2561365).

I highly recommend their Planescape Bestiary blog!

And with those two comments my day been made!

Anyhow, you're absolutely right James, it is a grey zone that is really unclear for RPGs right now. I doubt anyone 10 to 15 years ago realized how much 3D printing was going to take off, and I feel like won't really see its full impact until the price drops in the next 5 years to become truly affordable. I feel like we are sitting right on the bubble. Anyhow, I spent tons of time trying to figure out if I was covered or not before posting things to Thingiverse, and I'm pretty sure I've covered by the Community License, but if anyone at Paizo feels otherwise (or if the terms change in the future and I don't notice), I'm happy to pull my stuff down. I do it mostly for my own enjoyment of modelling, posting is really just an extra shot of positivity for my work when people like it. I truly doubt anyone other than myself has printed any of the models I've made, so its not like anyone would be losing out.

And hey, if I can be the conversation starter for Paizo developing a 3D printing policy for community use (or even better, a strategy/policy for selling official STL files!), I'm cool with that.

So, from the better late than never file-

The Tyrant Lizard King asked what my favorite piece of new art in this book is.

There were many strong contenders- the Four Horsemen's splash opening to Chapter 1, the Nikaramsa Asura, Nualia's throne shot to lead into Chapter 3, Inma on page 127, Folca's creepy, creepy viasge, Nurgal...

But in the end, I think the winner for me (of art that as far I know is new to this book)?

Mahathallah, on page 69. It's a gorgeous rendering of that sad, broken, evil, deadly former Psychopomp.

Is there a reason why none of the Kyton Demagouges offer the kyton subdomain, or just an oversight?

Is there a reason why none of the Kyton Demagouges offer the kyton subdomain, or just an oversight?

Because there wasn't room to reprint the Kyton subdomain, and we would have had to do so, and then we would have had to create domains for all the other fiend races so the rakshasas and oni and sahkils and so on would also all have their own subdomains.

And since there was no room in the book to drop in subdomains, we couldn't draw upon them.

And giving demigods domains that aren't just the name of their race is, to me, more interesting. I kinda wish we didn't "use up" a precious domain slot on Demon or Devil for demon lords and archdevils, for example. It certainly made choosing domains for a lot of them VERY difficult, since they only get four of them.

For Pazuzu, for example... his four subdomains probably should have been Cloud, Deception, Feather, and Wind, but one of those had to be Demon... so xxx never made the cut. Which is a shame, considering the fact that he's in charge of "winged creatures" and Feather's a domain that doesn't show up often.

I think the BEST solution would be that the outsider race domians would be things you unlock access to via a feat or archetype or something like that—an option for your deity, rather than one of the four assumptions.

That all said, granting the Kyton Demagouges the ability to grant access to the kyton subdomain certainly won't break anything, and it does make sense. So if you wanna do it in your home games, go for it. I would!

Thanks for the answer Mr. Jacobs. Book of the Damned helped me make some adjustments to an important deity in my 10+ year old homebrew setting; I decided to move him from being an Infernal Duke to being a Kyton Demagogue, which is what prompted the question.

Dropped a review. Sorry to say, I had to give this book only one star.

Come to think about it, did the pictures of demodand and the demon introduced in bestiary of this book got accidentally swapped?

I mean, demon's picture looks closer to other demodands than the picture of the squamous demodand and demon's face also looks "toady" while the demon itself is described having dragon scales and squamous demondand's head in the picture looks reptilian kinda like dragon. Both of them are four armed creatures with scales and wings so I could see them easily being confused for each other

(that said squamous demodand's picture features bigger obviously to scale than demon's(I'm avoiding trying to spell that demon's name because hard to spell) since it features heads on pikes while demon's picture features nothing you can compare it with)

Come to think about it, did the pictures of demodand and the demon introduced in bestiary of this book got accidentally swapped?

I mean, demon's picture looks closer to other demodands than the picture of the squamous demodand and demon's face also looks "toady" while the demon itself is described having dragon scales and squamous demondand's head in the picture looks reptilian kinda like dragon. Both of them are four armed creatures with scales and wings so I could see them easily being confused for each other

(that said squamous demodand's picture features bigger obviously to scale than demon's(I'm avoiding trying to spell that demon's name because hard to spell) since it features heads on pikes while demon's picture features nothing you can compare it with)

Nope, they didn't get swapped. They're just kinda similar looking.

So year later, and I just noticed there are some questions this book didn't answer about Queens of Nights.

What ARE Queens of Nights? I mean, three of them are fallen angels and one of them used to be psychopomp usher. So are they all devils now, or something unique?

And why DID they get grouped together and insulted by mortals since there are other female demigods in Hell (some of asura ranas, at least one Malebranche and Erecura)?

(I'm still actually confused what is status of Hell's misogyny in canon nowadays since its been downplayed. Like the insulting old name being made up by mortals sounds like its downplaying devils' role in it, despite distant realms still mention devils making propaganda against Eiseth so clearly its not completely retconned)

Side note, I think its cool how Queens of Night is only allied group of evil demigods that don't seem to be planning to backstab each other. I'd actually think it'd be cooler if they were allied to each other unprompted by outside influences simply because they liked each other and had gains to be gained by allying with each other. Its already cool that they all became notable powerhouses in Hell on their own before they were allied.

So year later, and I just noticed there are some questions this book didn't answer about Queens of Nights.

What ARE Queens of Nights? I mean, three of them are fallen angels and one of them used to be psychopomp usher. So are they all devils now, or something unique?

And why DID they get grouped together and insulted by mortals since there are other female demigods in Hell (some of asura ranas, at least one Malebranche and Erecura)?

(I'm still actually confused what is status of Hell's misogyny in canon nowadays since its been downplayed. Like the insulting old name being made up by mortals sounds like its downplaying devils' role in it, despite distant realms still mention devils making propaganda against Eiseth so clearly its not completely retconned)

Side note, I think its cool how Queens of Night is only allied group of evil demigods that don't seem to be planning to backstab each other. I'd actually think it'd be cooler if they were allied to each other unprompted by outside influences simply because they liked each other and had gains to be gained by allying with each other. Its already cool that they all became notable powerhouses in Hell on their own before they were allied.

They are a group of feminine demigods who reside in hell. That's pretty much it. What thematically binds them together is the fact that they have positions of great power in a place (Hell) that doesn't normally grant power to women, due to Asmodeus's misogynistic nature. They are also closely tied in with the archdevils in power—the other ones you mention are either nowhere near that close (malebranche) or weird outlying exceptions to the rules (Erecura).

Can we get a reprint for this? There is unfortunately no material out yet for 2e

Can we get a print on demand version?

One more vote for a print on demand release for any Paizo staff watching :)