Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of Dragons (PFRPG)

Craig Tierney wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Craig Tierney wrote:

Anyone willing to share anything about the cavalier archetype?

You get a Drake Companion. And whatever Order you want to join is subject to approval by your Drake.

So the altered class features are just mount and order?

Replaces mount, tactician, expert trainer, banner, greater tactician, greater banner, master tactician and alters charge.

Order isn't actually altered, just up to the GM's discretion, well, more than usual anyway.

Well, that makes building one easier, if a lot less interesting, since you're trading away all the non order or skill based things you do that aren't hitting people with a weapon yourself. Thanks.

Np :3

Np :3

I'm still really curious about the drake companion. Earlier, somebody said that "The Drake companion is along the lines of an Unchained Eidolon. A set progression of abilities, but a few that can be chosen. Not a point-based system, but still some flexibility.", and I was wondering if you could clarify a bit further. Are you selecting a chassis among drake types like the unchained summoner selects a chassis among outsider types? What are those abilities like?

Do some of the racial traits make charaters more dragon-like physically? like scales, claws, tails, whatever?

Do some of the racial traits make charaters more dragon-like physically? like scales, claws, tails, whatever?

Nope, sorry.

Cruel Illusion wrote:

Do some of the racial traits make charaters more dragon-like physically? like scales, claws, tails, whatever?

Nope, sorry.

Aw, too bad.

Rysky wrote:

Cruel Illusion wrote:

Do some of the racial traits make charaters more dragon-like physically? like scales, claws, tails, whatever?

Nope, sorry.

Aw, too bad.

Thanks for the answer!

Np :3

I can't wait to add the new sorcerer bloodlines (just a few) to my dragonborn wiki pages. Both on Phaeselis and on ten scalykind races. SQUEE!!

Ahem, just excited, move along. ;-)

So, I dunno if maybe my eyes are broken or not, but the fighter archetype trades out bonus feats at 3rd and 5th level? And they get bonus feats at 2nd, 4th, and 6th? Am I missing something? Or are these features free because they replace something that doesn't exist?

I'm at work and away from the books right now, but I recall looking at them last night and seeing 3rd and 5th level bonus feats. But maybe that's the 40 hours in three days talking...

So, I dunno if maybe my eyes are broken or not, but the fighter archetype trades out bonus feats at 3rd and 5th level? And they get bonus feats at 2nd, 4th, and 6th? Am I missing something? Or are these features free because they replace something that doesn't exist?

I'm at work and away from the books right now, but I recall looking at them last night and seeing 3rd and 5th level bonus feats. But maybe that's the 40 hours in three days talking...

Hmm, good catch.

I'd say you'd get the abilites in question at 4th and 6th, trading out those bonus feats.

Calth wrote:

Couple things.

First, the arcane strike ability of the scion is somewhat borked, as it doesn't scale as the ability doesn't provide a caster level replacement. So for 2 feats (Eldritch Strikes and Draconic Strike both replace feats) you basically get 1+1d4 damage per attack at the cost of a swift action, which is not so good.

Second, draconic malice is a crazy good spell. 3rd level, wide access(basically everyone but paladins/druids/rangers/hunters), no save aoe removal of fear/mind-affecting immunity of living creatures with regards to basically all your relevant fear effects. Sure its only 10 ft range, but its also a minutes/level aura. So its great for intimimancers and a nice support for enchanters. I sure as heck wish I had had it for the Bloodrager I just finished playing that went for a hurtful build.

Seeing as how you ignore the prerequisites for Arcane Strike it's safe to assume you go off character level rather than caster level.

And yeah, that spell's good for fear builds. And dragons.

The issue is that the caster level part of arcane strike is not a prerequisite. Houserule it if you want, but the actual words on the page mean it doesn't scale, so if its supposed to, the writers messed up. Trying to pretend it works doesn't help getting the problem fixed if there is one.

Rysky wrote:

Calth wrote:

Couple things.

First, the arcane strike ability of the scion is somewhat borked, as it doesn't scale as the ability doesn't provide a caster level replacement. So for 2 feats (Eldritch Strikes and Draconic Strike both replace feats) you basically get 1+1d4 damage per attack at the cost of a swift action, which is not so good.

Second, draconic malice is a crazy good spell. 3rd level, wide access(basically everyone but paladins/druids/rangers/hunters), no save aoe removal of fear/mind-affecting immunity of living creatures with regards to basically all your relevant fear effects. Sure its only 10 ft range, but its also a minutes/level aura. So its great for intimimancers and a nice support for enchanters. I sure as heck wish I had had it for the Bloodrager I just finished playing that went for a hurtful build.

Seeing as how you ignore the prerequisites for Arcane Strike it's safe to assume you go off character level rather than caster level.

And yeah, that spell's good for fear builds. And dragons.

The issue is that the caster level part of arcane strike is not a prerequisite. Houserule it if you want, but the actual words on the page mean it doesn't scale, so if its supposed to, the writers messed up. Trying to pretend it works doesn't help getting the problem fixed if there is one.

Messed up is a bit harsh, this was just an oversight. And there's not really anything to "pretend" about, just go by most likely intent, in this case that since you ignored the prereqs for AS that the rest of it functions just fine despite you not having a caster level.

So this is the first actual book I bought (from paizo atleast), how long does it take until the PDF is available for download? or do I still need to wait until the 4th?

So this is the first actual book I bought (from paizo atleast), how long does it take until the PDF is available for download? or do I still need to wait until the 4th?

The PDF goes out the 4th unless you were a subscriber. If you weren't a subscriber then you don't get the PDF for free.

So this is the first actual book I bought (from paizo atleast), how long does it take until the PDF is available for download? or do I still need to wait until the 4th?

Did you buy it via subscription?

Messed up is a bit harsh, this was just an oversight. And there's not really anything to "pretend" about, just go by most likely intent, in this case that since you ignored the prereqs for AS that the rest of it functions just fine despite you not having a caster level.

A mistake is a mistake, so yes, they messed up if they wanted the ability to scale. Nothing in the ability lets you ignore the caster level scaling. Absolutely nothing, and saying otherwise is counterproductive to getting it addressed.

Rysky wrote:

Messed up is a bit harsh, this was just an oversight. And there's not really anything to "pretend" about, just go by most likely intent, in this case that since you ignored the prereqs for AS that the rest of it functions just fine despite you not having a caster level.

A mistake is a mistake, so yes, they messed up if they wanted the ability to scale. Nothing in the ability lets you ignore the caster level scaling. Absolutely nothing, and saying otherwise is counterproductive to getting it addressed.

There's enough there I believe to show the intent was otherwise.

And having differing opinions on something doesn't make it counterproductive to actually getting addressed, the exact opposite in fact, seeing as how we're still talking about it.

Calth wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Messed up is a bit harsh, this was just an oversight. And there's not really anything to "pretend" about, just go by most likely intent, in this case that since you ignored the prereqs for AS that the rest of it functions just fine despite you not having a caster level.

A mistake is a mistake, so yes, they messed up if they wanted the ability to scale. Nothing in the ability lets you ignore the caster level scaling. Absolutely nothing, and saying otherwise is counterproductive to getting it addressed.

There's enough there I believe to show the intent was otherwise.

And having differing opinions on something doesn't make it counterproductive to actually getting addressed, the exact opposite in fact, seeing as how we're still talking about it.

I'm not sure how claiming that there is not a problem helps make sure that a problem gets fixed, so whatever works for you, but Ive reached my limits on this discussion.

Rysky wrote:

Calth wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Messed up is a bit harsh, this was just an oversight. And there's not really anything to "pretend" about, just go by most likely intent, in this case that since you ignored the prereqs for AS that the rest of it functions just fine despite you not having a caster level.

A mistake is a mistake, so yes, they messed up if they wanted the ability to scale. Nothing in the ability lets you ignore the caster level scaling. Absolutely nothing, and saying otherwise is counterproductive to getting it addressed.

There's enough there I believe to show the intent was otherwise.

And having differing opinions on something doesn't make it counterproductive to actually getting addressed, the exact opposite in fact, seeing as how we're still talking about it.

I'm not sure how claiming that there is not a problem helps make sure that a problem gets fixed, so whatever works for you, but Ive reached my limits on this discussion.

I haven't claimed that. I just see it as a simple error of oversight whereas you are seeing it as a major unplayable problem.

Thanks for answering my questions everyone.

The first racial trait on page 10, Dragon Magic, really speaks to me. It's like [Element] Affinity, but with DRAGONS! However, the book does not state which racial trait it replaces for elves. If a dev could chime in as to which one it is, that'd be stupendous; I already have a character in my head that I'd like to bring to life!

The first racial trait on page 10, Dragon Magic, really speaks to me. It's like [Element] Affinity, but with DRAGONS! However, the book does not state which racial trait it replaces for elves. If a dev could chime in as to which one it is, that'd be stupendous; I already have a character in my head that I'd like to bring to life!

Yeah, it's also outside the Elf section.

Very weird editing issue going on there.

I could spend all the day reading and re-reading your posts only for the rich dragon flavor. Thanks to all who shared these goodies!

Dragon based melee alchemists, fighter with wings, witches sleeping in hoards, and cavaliers and paladins having to persuade their drake companions so they don't eat their allies...

So many wonders in just one player companion... I have a lot of questions, but I'll refrain myself with these:

• I may have missed it, but what are the names of the cavalier and the paladin archetypes?
• What are the base drake types?
• Each of them comes with a fixed alignments? (Always CE for example)
• Are there specific drakes for specific archetypes?

One more. Do we get arts for the cavalier and the witch archetypes?

I could spend all the day reading and re-reading your posts only for the rich dragon flavor. Thanks to all who shared these goodies!

Dragon based melee alchemists, fighter with wings, witches sleeping in hoards, and cavaliers and paladins having to persuade their drake companions so they don't eat their allies...

So many wonders in just one player companion... I have a lot of questions, but I'll refrain myself with these:

• I may have missed it, but what are the names of the cavalier and the paladin archetypes?
• What are the base drake types?
• Each of them comes with a fixed alignments? (Always CE for example)
• Are there specific drakes for specific archetypes?

One more. Do we get arts for the cavalier and the witch archetypes?

Drakerider and Silver Champion.

Aether, air, cold, earth, fire, and water.

Nope. Any non-good.

Nope.

Witch, yes. Cavalier? There's art next to the Paladin archetype that could easkly be used for a Cavalier as well so there's that.

Hey Rysky, would you be willing to share a little more about the skald archetype? You mentioned sharing the form of the dragon spells, but I assume that's higher level. What other powers does it gain and what does it trade out?

Drakerider and Silver Champion.

Aether, air, cold, earth, fire, and water.

Nope. Any non-good.

Nope.

Witch, yes. Cavalier? There's art next to the Paladin archetype that could easkly be used for a Cavalier as well so there's that.

Thanks for the answers Rysky!

The Gold Sovereign wrote:

I could spend all the day reading and re-reading your posts only for the rich dragon flavor. Thanks to all who shared these goodies!

Dragon based melee alchemists, fighter with wings, witches sleeping in hoards, and cavaliers and paladins having to persuade their drake companions so they don't eat their allies...

So many wonders in just one player companion... I have a lot of questions, but I'll refrain myself with these:

• I may have missed it, but what are the names of the cavalier and the paladin archetypes?
• What are the base drake types?
• Each of them comes with a fixed alignments? (Always CE for example)
• Are there specific drakes for specific archetypes?

One more. Do we get arts for the cavalier and the witch archetypes?

Drakerider and Silver Champion.

Aether, air, cold, earth, fire, and water.

Nope. Any non-good.

Nope.

Witch, yes. Cavalier? There's art next to the Paladin archetype that could easkly be used for a Cavalier as well so there's that.

I'm pretty sure that picture was originally envisioned for the cavalier (since the paladin archetype came after the art order), but it could easily serve for both.

Rysky wrote:

The Gold Sovereign wrote:

I could spend all the day reading and re-reading your posts only for the rich dragon flavor. Thanks to all who shared these goodies!

Dragon based melee alchemists, fighter with wings, witches sleeping in hoards, and cavaliers and paladins having to persuade their drake companions so they don't eat their allies...

So many wonders in just one player companion... I have a lot of questions, but I'll refrain myself with these:

• I may have missed it, but what are the names of the cavalier and the paladin archetypes?
• What are the base drake types?
• Each of them comes with a fixed alignments? (Always CE for example)
• Are there specific drakes for specific archetypes?

One more. Do we get arts for the cavalier and the witch archetypes?

Drakerider and Silver Champion.

Aether, air, cold, earth, fire, and water.

Nope. Any non-good.

Nope.

Witch, yes. Cavalier? There's art next to the Paladin archetype that could easkly be used for a Cavalier as well so there's that.

I'm pretty sure that picture was originally envisioned for the cavalier (since the paladin archetype came after the art order), but it could easily serve for both.

So sad I couldn't afford a copy right now... But I'm sure it looks great! Thanks for your reply sir!

K just wrapped up the Drake companion section and I have to say that's legit, really cool design and love the only one balancing mechanic to even them out.

That said, why don't they get any energy resistances or immunities? It feels weird that the Fire Drake can be killed by burning it to death.

I'm checking this thread way to often (it's almost 2 am where I am right now). The waiting is killing me, and I don't know how I'm going to manage the next 5 days.

K just wrapped up the Drake companion section and I have to say that's legit, really cool design and love the only one balancing mechanic to even them out.

That said, why don't they get any energy resistances or immunities? It feels weird that the Fire Drake can be killed by burning it to death.

That does seem rather strange.

Some of those dragons don't get a energy immunity so what did they do for them?

Basically it breaks down like this:

*Any Dragon that has a breath weapon that isn't fire, cold, acid, or electricity has their breath weapon changed I believe for balancing reasons. So no force, sonic, or negative energy.

*Those that get changed have their breath type changed to either a new energy type or a weapon type damage like bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing. If it's a new energy type they get the new resistance to match it.

*If they change to a weapon type damage or already did that they instead gain DR against the damage type of their breath weapon equal to 1/2 the energy resistance they usually get.

I'm checking this thread way to often (it's almost 2 am where I am right now). The waiting is killing me, and I don't know how I'm going to manage the next 5 days.

doc the grey wrote:

K just wrapped up the Drake companion section and I have to say that's legit, really cool design and love the only one balancing mechanic to even them out.

That said, why don't they get any energy resistances or immunities? It feels weird that the Fire Drake can be killed by burning it to death.

That does seem rather strange.

Yeah, I'm feeling like that's a typo or something that accidentally got cut for space in editing. Hopefully we'll hear confirmation from the devs about it here soon. I want a fire drake that can sleep in the campfire lol.

Do some of the racial traits make charaters more dragon-like physically? like scales, claws, tails, whatever?

Not per se, but there is an interesting fluff-not crunch Draconic Heritage Visual Guide at the very beginning of the book that can easily be used to describe how your abilities translate in dragon-like physical features :-)

Hey Rysky, would you be willing to share a little more about the skald archetype? You mentioned sharing the form of the dragon spells, but I assume that's higher level. What other powers does it gain and what does it trade out?

Wyrm Saga (the ability to transform allies with the Form of _ spells) replaces Song of the Fallen.

Draconic Rage replaces Raging Song and gives people straight bonuses to attack and damage rather than CON AND STR bonuses, funnily enough the bonuses are higher than normal RS, and save versus paralysis and sleep.

Craig Tierney wrote:

I'm checking this thread way to often (it's almost 2 am where I am right now). The waiting is killing me, and I don't know how I'm going to manage the next 5 days.

doc the grey wrote:

K just wrapped up the Drake companion section and I have to say that's legit, really cool design and love the only one balancing mechanic to even them out.

That said, why don't they get any energy resistances or immunities? It feels weird that the Fire Drake can be killed by burning it to death.

That does seem rather strange.

Yeah, I'm feeling like that's a typo or something that accidentally got cut for space in editing. Hopefully we'll hear confirmation from the devs about it here soon. I want a fire drake that can sleep in the campfire lol.

They get their immunities (and vulnerabilities)from their Type, not through any racial abilities, like everything else with an elemental Type gets unless stated otherwise.

So a Fire Drake, Dragon (Fire), gets immunity to Fire and Vulnerability to Cold.

Any more info on what the Draconic Heritage feat gives, especially for Kineticists?

Any more info on what the Draconic Heritage feat gives, especially for Kineticists?

They give you abilities on what type of Dragon you pick, and some of the abilities get bonuses if you're certain classes.

There's a lot of them.