Pathfinder Player Companion: Agents of Evil (PFRPG)

We got some information above about neutral worshippers of evil gods like Norgorber and Urgathoa. What about Lamashtu and Rovagug? I'm especially curious about him, he and his worshipers seem to be pariahs even among the evil gods.

Lamashtu's few neutral worshipers tend to be either midwives in harsh lands or madness-revering drug cults. There's a couple of groups that straddle the line between neutral and evil.

Rovagug's (even fewer) neutrals are either crazy* or focus their destruction inward. Some take a more protean approach, seeing his destruction as necessary to cosmic balance.

*Not a good book on the mental health stigmatization front.

Eric Hinkle wrote:

We got some information above about neutral worshippers of evil gods like Norgorber and Urgathoa. What about Lamashtu and Rovagug? I'm especially curious about him, he and his worshipers seem to be pariahs even among the evil gods.

Lamashtu's few neutral worshipers tend to be either midwives in harsh lands or madness-revering drug cults. There's a couple of groups that straddle the line between neutral and evil.

Rovagug's (even fewer) neutrals are either crazy* or focus their destruction inward. Some take a more protean approach, seeing his destruction as necessary to cosmic balance.

*Not a good book on the mental health stigmatization front.

You missed the coolest part of the Rovagug cult...

I thought that was a pretty interesting concept to explore.

Also I have to admit that the spells in the back of this one are pretty cool. Blood Tentacle, Golden Guise, and Dream Dalliance are all really solid spells that have a lot of story baked right into them.

You missed the coolest part of the Rovagug cult...

** spoiler omitted **

I thought that was a pretty interesting concept to explore.

Oh, I didn't miss it. I just tend to err on the lighter side when dispensing spoilers. ^_^

Would someone be willing to detail the new Insinuator auras? I have a game starting soon and before I lock down a character concept I'm trying to understand more about that. Thanks!

Would someone be willing to detail the new Insinuator auras? I have a game starting soon and before I lock down a character concept I'm trying to understand more about that. Thanks!

Sure, here is a quick rundown -

they do not get Aura of Evil (They get an aura from the being they contact and make a deal with on that day)

Aura of Ego replaces cowardice - it gives each ally +2 morale on fear saving throws, and enemies -2 on saves against fear effects. (10 foot radius)

Aura of Ambition replaces aura of despair - enemies get -1 on all saving throws, allies get +1 on all saving throws. (10 foot yet again)

Aura of Glory replaces aura of vengeance - lets him spend 2 uses of smite impudence as a free action to grant all allies in 10 feet the ability to smite impudence with his bonuses, they have to use the smite before the insinuator's next turn.

Aura of Belief replaces aura of sin, makes their weapon chaos aligned when invoking chaotic, law when invoking lawful, or evil when invoking evil. You must choose one even if the outsider is multiple of those.

Aura of Indomitability replaces aura of depravity , gets DR 10 bypassed by the alignment opposite of who he has invoked for the day, or DR5/- if he invokes a neutral outsider that day.

Littimer wrote:

Would someone be willing to detail the new Insinuator auras? I have a game starting soon and before I lock down a character concept I'm trying to understand more about that. Thanks!

Sure, here is a quick rundown -

they do not get Aura of Evil (They get an aura from the being they contact and make a deal with on that day)

Aura of Ego replaces cowardice - it gives each ally +2 morale on fear saving throws, and enemies -2 on saves against fear effects. (10 foot radius)

Aura of Ambition replaces aura of despair - enemies get -1 on all saving throws, allies get +1 on all saving throws. (10 foot yet again)

Aura of Glory replaces aura of vengeance - lets him spend 2 uses of smite impudence as a free action to grant all allies in 10 feet the ability to smite impudence with his bonuses, they have to use the smite before the insinuator's next turn.

Aura of Belief replaces aura of sin, makes their weapon chaos aligned when invoking chaotic, law when invoking lawful, or evil when invoking evil. You must choose one even if the outsider is multiple of those.

Aura of Indomitability replaces aura of depravity , gets DR 10 bypassed by the alignment opposite of who he has invoked for the day, or DR5/- if he invokes a neutral outsider that day.

Thanks a lot, friend.

A few drawbacks to Insinuator that I don't think got mentioned:
- Smite only does half as much damage, although you get the same attack bonus.
- It's ten minutes to contact a patron and a Diplomacy check of DC 15 + Insinuator level to get something other than your alignment to go along with it. (Doesn't say you can't try again with a different patron if you mess up.)
- Your outsider servant might turn on you if you violate the code of your temporary patron for the day.
+ There is the possibility of only semi-falling. Violating the code of conduct for your daily patron means you can't contact that alignment again without atoning, but you're free to wheel and deal with the rest of them.

Smite Insolence having a weaker effect makes sense since it applies to eight alignments rather than just three. Someone mentioned a while back that your smite is boosted against enemies who are of truly opposite alignment; does this bring it back to regular smite's power, or is it some other effect?

Smite Insolence having a weaker effect makes sense since it applies to eight alignments rather than just three. Someone mentioned a while back that your smite is boosted against enemies who are of truly opposite alignment; does this bring it back to regular smite's power, or is it some other effect?

Does the Insinuator Antipaladin get to choose what feats, or is there a list?

Does the Insinuator Antipaladin get to choose what feats, or is there a list?

Any combat feat or Skill Focus.

Ooh, fantastic. Might ask my GM in my Way of the Wicked game if I can switch to the Insinuator Antipaladin, instead of my Dread Vanguard.

And is that at 4th and every 4? Or some other crazy spread?

Thanks in advance, Kalindlara! You're always awesome!

4th and every three thereafter.

Thank you! ^_^

Smite Insolence having a weaker effect makes sense since it applies to eight alignments rather than just three. Someone mentioned a while back that your smite is boosted against enemies who are of truly opposite alignment; does this bring it back to regular smite's power, or is it some other effect?

Four alignments on a given day (pre-capstone), and eight overall. The only one you can never smite is your own.

Arachnofiend wrote:

Smite Insolence having a weaker effect makes sense since it applies to eight alignments rather than just three. Someone mentioned a while back that your smite is boosted against enemies who are of truly opposite alignment; does this bring it back to regular smite's power, or is it some other effect?

Four alignments on a given day (pre-capstone), and eight overall. The only one you can never smite is your own.

So it is a potentential moment to end up in a smite off with the paladin, who has more powerful smites but less targets. And what if they are smiting the same target.

Paladin-'in the name of (lawful/neutral good god), I send you back to the dark pit from which you came' *smite but no kill*
Antipaladin-'*under breath*useless zealot. *loudly* out of my way, golden boy. If you cannot put down this thing then why are you here in the first place. As for you,*smite* if you get in my way again, I will give you suffering so intense that you will be begging for oblivion to claim your pathetic existance and drown it in the blackest reaches of the abyss.'

Or at least that's what going on in my head when I think about this.

Frustrated I missed the earlier announcement of this then I could have maybe put some ideas in!

Very interested in the new cleric archetype..... Herald Caller aside I have been painfully disappointed by the current cleric archetypes!
Lets have a decent pure caster cleric for a change!

Hoping not to be disappointed!! :((

It would be all too easy to simply reinvent a certain tome of profaned shadiness. Hopefully there'll be good stuff for evil NPCs of good intentions for GM use too.

Ironically, the original (3rd ed) Book of Vile Darkness was merely immature and disjointed, while the Book of Exalted Deeds was the morally reprehensible book.

If I get the chance to play Wrath of the Righteous, I think I'll play as a narcissistic Insinuator trying to become a god. He'll take Divine Source and start establishing his own cult as the game goes on, and he hopes to become known as the powerful ruler who managed to seal the Worldwound.

If I get the chance to play Wrath of the Righteous, I think I'll play as a narcissistic Insinuator trying to become a god. He'll take Divine Source and start establishing his own cult as the game goes on, and he hopes to become known as the powerful ruler who managed to seal the Worldwound.

And any demons he can have aiding his cause is an added bonus. After all the mortal servents can only do so much for him, and demons has talents that even the strongest of mortals cannot hope to match.

Axial wrote:

If I get the chance to play Wrath of the Righteous, I think I'll play as a narcissistic Insinuator trying to become a god. He'll take Divine Source and start establishing his own cult as the game goes on, and he hopes to become known as the powerful ruler who managed to seal the Worldwound.

And any demons he can have aiding his cause is an added bonus. After all the mortal servents can only do so much for him, and demons has talents that even the strongest of mortals cannot hope to match.

The concept of the Insinuator recruiting or manipulating demons into serving him is an interesting one, but that would need to be done with great care. After al, the heroes of the crusade and their allies would not be too keen on the idea. Especially not Irabeth, Galfrey, or

ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:

Axial wrote:

If I get the chance to play Wrath of the Righteous, I think I'll play as a narcissistic Insinuator trying to become a god. He'll take Divine Source and start establishing his own cult as the game goes on, and he hopes to become known as the powerful ruler who managed to seal the Worldwound.

And any demons he can have aiding his cause is an added bonus. After all the mortal servents can only do so much for him, and demons has talents that even the strongest of mortals cannot hope to match.

The concept of the Insinuator recruiting or manipulating demons into serving him is an interesting one, but that would need to be done with great care. After al, the heroes of the crusade and their allies would not be too keen on the idea. Especially not Irabeth, Galfrey, or ** spoiler omitted **.

Most definatly true. The crusade would find a Insinuator manipulating and recruiting a bunch of demon to his cause openly hard to ignore, and even harder to keep forgiving as time went on. However, if we factor in the cult idea, then it wouldn't be to much of a stretch to assume that they could be obfuscated somewhat under the guise of locating potential redeemable demons, or sheltering more passive and less willing combatant ones from the violent chaos of the crusade and the potential escalation.

After all, some might just be dragged into the battle lines to be thrown at the crusade to slow it down. Others could be simply caught in the crossfire. And with the possibility of the defecting noctural, a small number of likeminded redeemable demons could be located and persuaded to aid the cause. If they were greeted by one of the Paladins or obvious servents of the crusade, they might believe that they are going to get slaughtered and lash out. But an Antipaladin with no ideological ties to the crusade might have a better shot at opening a more peaceful negotiation.

The Appeaser is a non-evil cleric who worships an evil deity. His aura is altered to be evil despite his non-evil alignment. (But wouldn't it be evil anyway because of his choice of deity? I think I caught an error here.) Starting at 5th level, he can expend one use of his ability to channel negative energy to channel positive energy at 4 levels below his actual level. He cannot cast any spells with the good or evil descriptor. He has no domains but can voluntarily take charisma damage for temporary access to one domain other than Evil granted by his deity.

Sounds uninspiring sadly!

Got a hold of the PDF today. I'm still liking this product, because not only does it give a reasons for the players to work with the evil character, as well as reasons to have an agent of evil in your party. Also the poisons in this book can make for great story moments, with a banquet suddenly being interrupted by the guests slowly becoming incorporeal, or the king going mad because of what appears to be possession, or some curse by the utterings and talk of deathly whispering, when infact it was a poisoner that is behind the thing.

I love some of the spells, they have some cool effects and flavour, especially the furious fire barrage, and blood tentacles, because I like having the bloodrager turning into a fireball tossing menace, and I also like the idea of a witch casting blood tenticles then activating prehensile hair to become a mass of closer quarters tenticles, beating the tar out of squib enemies(low level enemies used to fill the gaps in action encounters, making combats seem bigger in scale).

I like the Insinuators limitations though. It punishes the people that simply want to commit evil for the sake of evil. It even has a box specifically to address playing an Insinuator, using the exact-words stated 'con man'. And also giving some of the lesser addressed races like changelings, fetchlings, drow some useful abilities. Hag magic-not quite as good as mystic past life from samsarans but still grants some useful utility spells to the spellcaster changelings.

This book might not have everything, but it should give a good number of extra options for those who want to experiment. I checked the spells and only really one has the evil descriptor...I think. You can still do terrible things, since many of these things do potentially last forever/ mess with people's minds or even open the way to affect people in a greater way. Turning the enemies helmet into gold before the the main fighter smashes them over the head. Also it does have some of the best backstory options for creating plot hooks and goals for your protagonists of the darker spectrum.

After all, some of the goals you have might be virtuous and noble in your eyes, and help give you a reason to be in the party. The actions you take to fulfil those goals however could be what divides you from the more 'holy and pure' members of the group. I like the ones where the past comes back to haunt them, and the Gm can use this to build some small side stories into their campaign. Imagine that moment when the party are saved by a group of soldiers wearing armour with a unique crest/symbol on it, and only one of the party members realises who these people are, and starts freaking out. Or they receive a message from their now monsterous love/former love who wishes them well and is coming to see them soon. Very soon infact. And how do the party react to this.

So many possibilities.

One question here: just what are the new poisons, and what effects do they have? Are they more of the ability damage/drain, or do they get a little stranger than that?

One question here: just what are the new poisons, and what effects do they have? Are they more of the ability damage/drain, or do they get a little stranger than that?

well i'm glad you asked. To list off the 6 new regular poisons(as opposed to the more crazy bizarre and rare Necrotoxins), the first is bloodpyre.

Created by the drow, this orange liquid contact poison burn regardless of temperature, which the drow claim is a side effect of its abyssal inspiration. it requires a 14 dc fort save to negate requireing a save every round for 6 rounds. the poison causes so much pain it impedes the mental faculties(doing 1 cha,int and wis damage) but it also give the victim a bonus to strength. each round that the save is failed, the victim gains a cumulative Alchemical bonus to stength up to a +6 after 6 failed saves. This Tends to be why some drow houses use bloodpyre to enhance their own warriors despite the damage and pain it causes. And that burning thing isn't just ability damage. No. Each Failed save causes 2d6 fire damage in addition to all the other things. it costs 1000gp

The Next is Dreaming Death. this green and violet gas is kept in stopped quartz vials and imported by the inhabitents of Leng. Anyone that inhales the poison gas must pass a 16dc fortitude save or fall into a fitful slumber(filled with nightmares and maddening half truths) for 10 minutes. The Onset is also 10 minutes. A save is required once every 10 for an hour and every failure extends the effects of the sleep by another 10 minutes. Those normally immune to the effects of magical sleep like elves are also affected by the poison. But The Big reason this is such a nasty toxin is what happens when you wake up from the sleep. 'Creatures awaken from these visions scarred and prone to self-harm.' Victims must succeed at a Will save (DC = 14 + 2 for every 10 minutes spent sleeping) or begin cutting their own flesh with any available weapons. Affected creatures attempt to deliver a coup de grace attack upon themselves every round. A victim can attempt a new Will save at the beginning of each round, with a cumulative +2 bonus for each round they successfully damaged themselves. this poison costs 2500gp.

Then we Come to the cheapest of all the poisons listed(at a cost of only 400gp). Gray justice. Crafted by the alchemists of Galt, this poison has been used among the gray Gardeners as a truth serum. Gray justice makes victims mpre suseptable to interregation and causes side effects of nausea, lethargy and confusion. Some gardeners use this on prisoners befor their execution to make them publicaly admit their crimes. However Gray justice is not a truth serum. in adition to it being a 18dc fortitude save to avoid being poisoned(and requiring 2 saves to cure)on injury, having a frequency of 1 every 10 minutes, and doing 1d2 wis damage, the poison compels its victims to say what ever they think will please those around them.Each round a victim takes Wisdom damage from the poison, he answers any questions in the affirmative, agreeing to the best of his ability and even lying to confirm whatever he assumes the questioner wants to hear. If questioned by multiple people, the victim might contradict himself. If asked questions without an affirmative response or leading answer, the victim does not need to respond.

After that we Have Rage Spittle, another contact poison that requires a 17 fortitude save, and requires 2 saves to cure. Imported from Casmaron, and also called Rovagug's spittle, this is the poison of choice for the cult of the rough beast. If you fail the save, you don't just take 1d2 dex damage. Any creature that fails a Fortitude save against ragespittle is subjected to an uncontrollable rage. A rage-afflicted victim must succeed at a DC 17 Will save each round or attack the nearest creature, whether friend or foe. Effects that suppress confusion or emotional conditions suppress ragespittle’s rage effect for their duration, but not the poison’s ability damage. Effects that end confusion or emotional conditions suppress the urge for only 1d10 rounds while the poison remains in the victim’s system. this poison also has the same cost as Bloodpyre(1000gp).

Now we come to Scolarblight. Created by the whispering way to both protect and bind newcomers and servents that handled dangerous books, it has now become one of the most popular poisons for the assasination of spelcasters. Those that breath in the poison must succeed a DC15 fortitude save or suffer from 1d3 int Damage, headaches, suffer difficulty remembering or form memories because of Mild confusion and Dysphoria. the save frequency is 1/min for 6 minutes. The Big reason why this is nasty comes from this detail. Victims who fail a saving throw against scholarblight lose their ability to read or write for 24 hours, as letters and symbols seem to twist, move, and reorient themselves. This prevents victims from using scrolls and spellbooks, but also protects an afflicted creature from any effect dependent on reading text, such as explosive runes. So If a person gets hit by this poison and fails their save, they cannot read or write, use scroll or spells but also cannot be affeced by the likes of explosive runes. the Poison costs 1500gp.

The Last of the 'normal' poisons is Widows kiss. Developed by the jorogumo, the poison is diffused and distilled from the spiderlike creatures natural venom and infused with very small spider eggs. Creatures injected with the poison suffer headaches and cold sweats before the more nasty part of the poison activates after an onset of 1d4 days.Because the Spider Eggs hatch in the victims blood stream and the baby spiderlings infest it, satring to eat the body from the inside out. Every day, the victim must make a dc24 fortitude save from the poison or take 1d3 constitution damage. Also, thanks to the swarm, the host body can be made succeptable to effects that control or inflence vermin including a jorogumo's spider empathy ability. this poison requires 3 saves to cure and can also be removed by a cmbination of remove poison and cure disease. another thing is that if the poisoned individual dies from the constitution damage, a spider swarm emerges from the body 1d6 rounds later. The price is also the highest out of all the poisons(7000gp).

One question here: just what are the new poisons, and what effects do they have? Are they more of the ability damage/drain, or do they get a little stranger than that?

After the normal Poisons we Get the Necrotoxins. these are Black Market poisons that are not only very deadly, but also infused with negative energy through ritual, reagents from undead creatures, and channeling of negative energy during the brewing process. Because the creation of these Necrotoxins is so tempremental, crafting these poisons requires a craft alchemy check with the DC equal to the fortitude save +5. there are 2 in this book.

Ghost syrup, the first of these necrotoxins, requires at least 3000gp,Craft wonderous item, ethereal Jaunt, and the creatot having 13 ranks in craft alchemy to make. To buy this toxin requires 6000gp. It also has an aura(strong necromancy), a CL 13th, and is an injested, dc 20 poison with an onset of 1 minute. The effects of Ghost syrup are 1d3 Str damage and each round the victim takes damage they have a 50% chance of droping 1 held item. the frequency is 1/round for 6 rounds. If the victim is reduced to 0 strength by the poison, the strength damage becomes strength drain and the victim becomes incorporeal permanently. carried and worn items remain corporial and are unaffected. the victim in this state can only be restored by the use of limited wish, miracle, remove curse or wish. Curring the poison before hand requires passing 2 consecutive saves.

Memento Mori requires craft wonderous item, unhallow, 1850gp and 10 ranks in craft alchemy to make this necrotoxin. Buying this poison requires 3700 gp. This poison has an aura of moderate necromancy, a CL 9th, and is an inhaled DC19, frequency 1/minute for 6 rounds, instantanous hallucinogen that clouds the sences with messages of death. The effects of Memento Mori are 1d3 wis damage and as long as any wisdom damage from the poison remains untreated, the victim...
1.cannot distinguish living creatures from undead
2. cannot understand or read any language-spoken words sound like tearful moans and written words seem faded and tattered.
3. while under this effect the target takes a -5 penalty on saving throws against fear effects and must attempt to save against all spells cast by others, even harmless and beneficial spells. Curing this requires a consecutive 2 saves.

So yes while some of the poisons are more of the standard ability damage/drain, all of them have added effects that will make Encountering them a nasty proposition, and make dealing with them a priority, especially with the likes of necrotoxins. What happens when the wizard suddenly cannot tell living from the undead, or even understand any attempt to communicate.

Something i forgot to note, Widows kiss is an ingestable, so have fun drinking/eating at the jorogumo's house, or anywhere there is one, or is likely to be one.

Anyone fancy giving out the cleric archetype details?

Anyone fancy giving out the cleric archetype details?

See post 130 earlier in this thread, or search this thread for my post on the "Appeaser".

Will someone please explain what is available for antipaladins. Are there 1 or 2 new archetypes and what do they do?

See post 130 earlier in this thread, or search this thread for my post on the "Appeaser".

Thanks I did catch that but I was after the full details:

The Appeaser is a non-evil cleric who worships an evil deity. His aura is altered to be evil despite his non-evil alignment. (But wouldn't it be evil anyway because of his choice of deity? I think I caught an error here.) Starting at 5th level, he can expend one use of his ability to channel negative energy to channel positive energy at 4 levels below his actual level. He cannot cast any spells with the good or evil descriptor. He has no domains but can voluntarily take charisma damage for temporary access to one domain other than Evil granted by his deity.

Seems hugely lightweight as is stated:

1) The ability to channel both positive and negative can already be gained as a feat AND for only the cost of 1D6 in channeling. And lets be honest as just about every man and his dog knows, channeling is pretty crap anyway.

2) Why would I trade having 2 domains for the ability to temporarily get 1 domain and ability score damage?!?! Temporary access to a specific domain is only worth it as an add-on NOT as a replacement!

3) No good or evil spells..... ermmm OK.... thats a fairly big hit!!!

Will someone please explain what is available for antipaladins. Are there 1 or 2 new archetypes and what do they do?

There is just one archetype, namely the Insinuator.

David knott 242 wrote:

See post 130 earlier in this thread, or search this thread for my post on the "Appeaser".

Thanks I did catch that but I was after the full details:

The Appeaser is a non-evil cleric who worships an evil deity. His aura is altered to be evil despite his non-evil alignment. (But wouldn't it be evil anyway because of his choice of deity? I think I caught an error here.) Starting at 5th level, he can expend one use of his ability to channel negative energy to channel positive energy at 4 levels below his actual level. He cannot cast any spells with the good or evil descriptor. He has no domains but can voluntarily take charisma damage for temporary access to one domain other than Evil granted by his deity.

Seems hugely lightweight as is stated:

1) The ability to channel both positive and negative can already be gained as a feat AND for only the cost of 1D6 in channeling. And lets be honest as just about every man and his dog knows, channeling is pretty crap anyway.

2) Why would I trade having 2 domains for the ability to temporarily get 1 domain and ability score damage?!?! Temporary access to a specific domain is only worth it as an add-on NOT as a replacement!

3) No good or evil spells..... ermmm OK.... thats a fairly big hit!!!

1) If you are referring to the Versatile Channeler feat, an Appeaser specifically does not qualify for it, as he worships an evil deity.

2) I am not sure why you would do it either, unless you really value flexibility. You do get to choose any one of four domains of your evil patron deity when you use this ability.

3) Agreed.

I was trying to give a high level summary of the archetype before the book was released. Your questions indicate that you actually do understand its rather serious limitations, which I did not bother commenting on at the time.

Cheers David!

$%^&* hell..... that is one terrible archetype! I shouldnt be surprised really as its a cleric archetype!!

Clerics are a tier 1 class anyway, you really shouldn't expect archetypes that power them up.

The holy chant of the apeaser not in the face not in the face

Clerics are a tier 1 class anyway, you really shouldn't expect archetypes that power them up.

Yes and no...

No not in overall terms but definitely yes in niche terms....

The Herald Caller is the only cleric archetype that IMO is well designed to its specialism.

It is less powerful as a general cleric but definitely more powerful as a s summoning focussed cleric ----> thus worth playing.

Appeaser cleric completely falls flat on all counts ------> thus not worth playing

As I said... Clerics in PF really arent that well catered for.... hence my lack of surprise!

Herald Caller is a straight-up power creep buff archetype. You lose one domain (so you can still keep Travel, which is the best one), and you don't get medium armor and shield proficiences, which are irrelavant anyway. In return, you get buff to summons, which are some of the strongest things in the system.

But I get it, you love Clerics, you want them to be more awesome than they already are. Thing is, they already are more awesome than anything that is not a Wizard.

And the Wizards are only that awesome because they can learn nearly all the spells in the game. Fragility wise though, a wizard that does not have the ability to use magic is very quickly a dead wizard. A cleric without spells is less likely to be dead immediately because they can also use very fairly lethal weapons(rather than a stick or a knife), they can wear some armour(rather than being limited to cloth and robes), and they actually can toe to toe(they have some amount of strength to engage, while a wizard with only a dagger or quarter staff as a reassurance and tool can barely deal any lasting damage in melee, if the even hit at all).

The appeaser can get some okay weapons from their gods(falchions, naginatas, and some real exotics like spiked chains). And they also can be used in pathfinder society(i think since they have the rule of being one step from their gods alignment but not evil). So while he always pings as evil, he is not evil in actuality. So in comparison to a full blown cleric of the evil gods, the appeaser is not the strongest, but they still can pick up some of the other goodies of serving the god. Besides they can exploit some of the taboos of their faith, like the detail that Lamashtus followers will rarely attack each other with the intent to kill. That is taboo, due to the small size of the cult, they cannot go about killing members of their faith. This knowledge on how the cult operates give them a better chance of infiltrating and opening doors to the cults inner workings. And you don't need to even lie about your faith, or hide your aura from the alignment checkers. It's like the 'bardic knock spell', only with a higher chance of success than just that one time.

Thanks for the poison info, ErisAcolyte.

Herald Caller is a straight-up power creep buff archetype. You lose one domain (so you can still keep Travel, which is the best one), and you don't get medium armor and shield proficiences, which are irrelavant anyway. In return, you get buff to summons, which are some of the strongest things in the system.

But I get it, you love Clerics, you want them to be more awesome than they already are. Thing is, they already are more awesome than anything that is not a Wizard.

I honestly dont know where to start!

1) Out of 17 archetypes, 1 is designed decently.... and this is somehow justification for saying clerics are overly awesome already?!?!!?

2) Wizards, Shamans and Oracles are already more powerful than Clerics so where are your balancing arguements against them?!?!

3) Talking about archetypes, have you seen... Exploiter Wizard, Cyclopean Seer, Spirit Guide, everything Shaman related..etc..... obviously not me thinks!!

4) Losing a domain AND significant AC is never irrelevant!!!

5) Summoning is good but its not that good.... in fact many people have commented that it becomes a poor use of actions the higher you go.

Cheers David!

$%^&* hell..... that is one terrible archetype! I shouldnt be surprised really as its a cleric archetype!!

I'm sorry this isn't the type of archetype you were hoping for.

The goal here was to design something thematic for clerics of evil gods that were not themselves evil. The abilities are meant to reflect that kind of character, which may not be the equal (or better) of a non-archetyped cleric in all respects. In many respects, this archetype is meant for characters seeking a very specific role-playing niche, namely being a non-evil servant of an evil deity. It also gives some abilities to channel positive and negative energy and to cherry-pick domain powers (at a cost).

While this may not be the most ideal archetype, I'd request that we don't let the discussion of this product devolve into talks of "OMG Clerics are unloved." :)

All that being said, I'll take the feedback here, and consider it for any future project I work on.

Gorbacz wrote:

Herald Caller is a straight-up power creep buff archetype. You lose one domain (so you can still keep Travel, which is the best one), and you don't get medium armor and shield proficiences, which are irrelavant anyway. In return, you get buff to summons, which are some of the strongest things in the system.

But I get it, you love Clerics, you want them to be more awesome than they already are. Thing is, they already are more awesome than anything that is not a Wizard.

I honestly dont know where to start!

1) Out of 17 archetypes, 1 is designed decently.... and this is somehow justification for saying clerics are overly awesome already?!?!!?

2) Wizards, Shamans and Oracles are already more powerful than Clerics so where are your balancing arguements against them?!?!

3) Talking about archetypes, have you seen... Exploiter Wizard, Cyclopean Seer, Spirit Guide, everything Shaman related..etc..... obviously not me thinks!!

4) Losing a domain AND significant AC is never irrelevant!!!

5) Summoning is good but its not that good.... in fact many people have commented that it becomes a poor use of actions the higher you go.

Look, I get it. You love Clerics. You play Clerics all the time. You think that Clerics are the best. You want best things for Clerics. Because Clerics are awesome!

But it still doesn't change the fact that they are one of the most powerful classes in the game (and neither Oracles or Shamans get any close). And that power comes from being full casters who know their entire spell list from day one, and that spell list is getting more versatile and powerful with every book that has any cleric spell in it.

So unless the archetype does anything about spell progression or caster level, it's just shifting the cherries on the top of the cake without touching the cake itself.

Gorbacz wrote:

Herald Caller is a straight-up power creep buff archetype. You lose one domain (so you can still keep Travel, which is the best one), and you don't get medium armor and shield proficiences, which are irrelavant anyway. In return, you get buff to summons, which are some of the strongest things in the system.

But I get it, you love Clerics, you want them to be more awesome than they already are. Thing is, they already are more awesome than anything that is not a Wizard.

I honestly dont know where to start!

1) Out of 17 archetypes, 1 is designed decently.... and this is somehow justification for saying clerics are overly awesome already?!?!!?

2) Wizards, Shamans and Oracles are already more powerful than Clerics so where are your balancing arguements against them?!?!

3) Talking about archetypes, have you seen... Exploiter Wizard, Cyclopean Seer, Spirit Guide, everything Shaman related..etc..... obviously not me thinks!!

4) Losing a domain AND significant AC is never irrelevant!!!

5) Summoning is good but its not that good.... in fact many people have commented that it becomes a poor use of actions the higher you go.

Wait. How does he lose AC? i can understand domains being lost(mollified Domain and all) but AC? his abilites are these

Aura (Ex): An appeaser always has an evil aura regardless of his actual alignment. This alters aura.

Channel Utility (Su): An appeaser channels negative energy, but also gains limited access to positive energy. At 5th level, an appeaser can channel positive energy as a full-round action, but he treats his cleric level as if it were 4 lower when determining the amount of damage he can deal to undead and the amount of hit points he can restore to living creatures. This ability alters channel energy. Divine Apologist (Ex): An appeaser must worship an evil god. His alignment must be within one step of his deity’s, but he himself cannot have an evil alignment. An appeaser cannot cast any spells with the good or evil descriptor. This alters the cleric’s alignment and spells.

Mollified Domain (Su): At 1st level, an appeaser gains no domain or domain bonus spells. Once per day as a standard action, he can sacrifice his own force of will to gain divine providence. Doing so deals 1d3 points of Charisma damage to the appeaser, and allows him to select a single domain offered by his deity (except the Evil domain or its subdomains). The appeaser gains access to any granted powers offered by the domain he would otherwise qualify for, and can sacrifice a prepared spell to cast a domain spell from that domain just as if he were spontaneously casting a cure or inflict spell. He retains access to this domain for a number of minutes equal to 1/2 the appeaser’s cleric level + plus his Wisdom modifier. Any domain abilities that can be used a limited number of times per day can be used only once each time that particular domain is invoked. An appeaser can gain a mollified domain one additional time per day (taking Charisma damage each time) at 4th level and every 3 levels thereafter, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level. An appeaser can invoke only a single mollified domain at a time. This ability modifies the cleric’s domains class feature.

Maybe I'm not familiar to the ins and outs of clerics(since i haven't really played much pathfinder at all), but i still think Appeaser clerics keep all the other thing that have not been touched (like their weapon and armour proficiencies(which are fairly decent for not being pure-blood fighters and martial classes)). So i don't understand where this sudden 'they lose AC' thing comes from. Please explain since I don't know what you are talking about.

They're talking about the Herald Caller, not the Appeaser.

Those all sound like some great weapon enchantments! The 'Toxic' one sounds like a great investment for members of the Daggermark Poisoner's Guild.