Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Strategy Guide (OGL)

...putting the "Advanced" in "Advanced Players Guide" :)

I'm really looking forward to this book. As a newer player, the CRB is incredibly useful, but also incredibly daunting.

My fix has been to invest in hero lab, because it includes prompts for when I make mistakes, and also lets me know if I've forgotten something when leveling up. I then go back through the CRB to confirm the rules to make sure I understand why everything adds up the way it does. Unfortunately, however, this was next to impossible with the CRB alone, and even the "getting started" chapter has some big gaps in information.

My other fix is to keep my characters really simple for now while I learn the rules. I have been learning a ton playing PFS scenarios, but since I'm usually playing with much more experienced players who don't know me very well, I wanted to have a reasonably useful character so I wouldn't drag down the group and draw eye-rolls from the rest of my party. The optimization guides floating around are useful in that regard, even if you're not interested in power gaming.

This book looks like it will fix both of my problems with the CRB. If it's modeled after the Beginner's Box books, I suspect I'll be able to read it cover to cover and come away with a much better understanding of many game mechanics that are tough to figure out from the CRB.

One thing I'd love to see down the road (assuming the Strategy Guide accomplishes its goal) is a PFRPG "Starter Set" modeled after the Beginner Box. I would box up the CRB, the Strategy Guide and Bestiary 1, and also include a nice set of dice, a flip mat and some pawns like the Beginner Box. Retail it for $100, and sell it as the next step up from the beginner box. Having a product that says "This box is everything you need to play Pathfinder" would be a great way to introduce new players to the full game, in the same way the Beginners' box is a great intro for younger players.

This book is focused 99.9% on the 11 Core Rulebook classes. Outside of that, we're talking a few sentences here and there.

Only Core Rulebook classes, cool. What about the other options from the Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Magic, like additional rage powers or ranger combat styles beyond Archery and Two-Weapon, etc.? Will those be included or is it strictly CRB content all the way?

Vic Wertz wrote:

This book is focused 99.9% on the 11 Core Rulebook classes. Outside of that, we're talking a few sentences here and there.

Only Core Rulebook classes, cool. What about the other options from the Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Magic, like additional rage powers or ranger combat styles beyond Archery and Two-Weapon, etc.? Will those be included or is it strictly CRB content all the way?

It primarily discusses the Core Rulebook options, observing that more options exist in other sources. As others have noted, the Core Rulebook can be intimidating, and we don't want to have the Strategy Guide be equally daunting by presenting all 100+ rage powers published to date rather than just handling the more manageable 28 in the CRB.

Once a player has a handle on how to create a barbarian using the core options, I imagine she'll be much more comfortable approaching the vast number of other options available in other publications.

It primarily discusses the Core Rulebook options, observing that more options exist in other sources. As others have noted, the Core Rulebook can be intimidating, and we don't want to have the Strategy Guide be equally daunting by presenting all 100+ rage powers published to date rather than just handling the more manageable 28 in the CRB.

Once a player has a handle on how to create a barbarian using the core options, I imagine she'll be much more comfortable approaching the vast number of other options available in other publications.

That sounds reasonable and does not diminish my excitement at all. Thanks for answering my question!

Dustin Ashe wrote:

Vic Wertz wrote:

This book is focused 99.9% on the 11 Core Rulebook classes. Outside of that, we're talking a few sentences here and there.

Only Core Rulebook classes, cool. What about the other options from the Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Magic, like additional rage powers or ranger combat styles beyond Archery and Two-Weapon, etc.? Will those be included or is it strictly CRB content all the way?

It primarily discusses the Core Rulebook options, observing that more options exist in other sources. As others have noted, the Core Rulebook can be intimidating, and we don't want to have the Strategy Guide be equally daunting by presenting all 100+ rage powers published to date rather than just handling the more manageable 28 in the CRB.

Once a player has a handle on how to create a barbarian using the core options, I imagine she'll be much more comfortable approaching the vast number of other options available in other publications.

I can understand that, but I think Paizo is making a big mistake if they don’t include Traits. Not that you need to list all traits, but traits is more or less an integrated part of the game now and it grants players good options to flavor their character and tools to bring their character to life. Be it a Fighter that is a diplomat, a Druid that is a scout or whatever. You even have traits in your player’s adventures guide to your adventure paths. Also, I know that as a new player you can confuse racial traits with “Traits”. This would be a good book to straighten that out, even if you just mention traits and don’t list all of them.

I hope you at least mention that there is a spontaneous divine caster. As a new player playing a spontaneous caster can be easier than playing a caster that prepare spells, so playing an Oracle can be easier than playing a cleric. I really hope you make traits and the Oracle part of the Pathfinder 2.0 Core book.

Anyway, Even if you just write a few lines about the other classes (and traits) it is a good way for you to promote your other books.

I hope you at least mention that there is a spontaneous divine caster. As a new player playing a spontaneous caster can be easier than playing a caster that prepare spells, so playing an Oracle can be easier than playing a cleric. I really hope you make traits and the Oracle part of the Pathfinder 2.0 Core book.

Playing one is easier, but building one is harder, because you have to pick spells and stick with them. Even if a new player makes mistakes picking a wizard's free 2 spells per level, it's quick and easy to remedy if they decide they need a different spell.

Zark wrote:

I hope you at least mention that there is a spontaneous divine caster. As a new player playing a spontaneous caster can be easier than playing a caster that prepare spells, so playing an Oracle can be easier than playing a cleric. I really hope you make traits and the Oracle part of the Pathfinder 2.0 Core book.

Playing one is easier, but building one is harder, because you have to pick spells and stick with them. Even if a new player makes mistakes picking a wizard's free 2 spells per level, it's quick and easy to remedy if they decide they need a different spell.

That is more of a problem if you play a Sorcerer. If you going to play a character that can fight some, use scrolls and wands, do some healing and some buffing Oracle pretty much plays itself.

Especially if the Strategy Guide give some solid advice on Cleric spell choices and different roles a cleric can have. You get Cure spells for free and then the Mystery spells and the ones you pick yourself.

If you just know what role you are going to play, the Class and its mysteries pretty much builds itself. I want to be a healer, pick Life. I want to be a melee character, pick Battle. I want to be a blaster that can also heal, play Flames. Etc.

I'd just like to add that this book would have been a huge help when I started playing.

Most of the confusion I experienced in my early days of gaming stemmed from being unfamiliar with all the options presented in the books and my lack of actual game experience. A Strategy book such as this one would have been a huge help with both learning the game and teaching my players.

Pushed back again?

Pushed back again?

Unfortunately, yes it was.

James0235 wrote:

Pushed back again?

Unfortunately, yes it was.

I like to think of it as making sure it's super high quality.

I guess the fact that Wolfgang got contracted to write 5E adventures kind of threw a wench into this one. Oh well.

I guess the fact that Wolfgang got contracted to write 5E adventures kind of threw a wench into this one. Oh well.

Or Sean leaving threw a wrench into the hardcover production schedule in general, or someone got sick, or a different product fell behind (perhaps one with a GenCon due date) and time was borrowed from the Strategy Guide to finish the other one.

There are a lot of things that could have happened, we're not likely to ever find out what really did.

Wolfgang did his part ages ago.

I guess the fact that Wolfgang got contracted to write 5E adventures kind of threw a wench into this one. Oh well.

I never complain when life throws a wench into my plans ..

I see Cosmo's been juggling wrenches again.

I see Cosmo's been juggling wrenches again.

This made me laugh a bit more than it should have... Good Work.

I pre-ordered this in 2013. I just hope I'll have it in my hands before 2015. It looks incredibly useful.

I see Cosmo's been juggling wrenches again.

I'll admit, I read this as "Cosmo's been juggling wenches again."

Straight outta Compton.

I am wondering if this book will contain something very useful (and if not maybe you guys can still add it) a master index for all the classes, feats, spells, archetypes, etc to appear in the Pathfinder hardcover line.

That alone could get me to buy this book.

I am wondering if this book will contain something very useful (and if not maybe you guys can still add it) a master index for all the classes, feats, spells, archetypes, etc to appear in the Pathfinder hardcover line.

That alone could get me to buy this book.

I kinda doubt it will, just because the list would be invalidated by the next hardcover they release that contains fets, archetypes, etc.

That sort of stuff is where the online SRDs shine.

-Skeld

John Kretzer wrote:

That sort of stuff is where the online SRDs shine.

-Skeld

Indeed. The one on Paizo's website, though, doesn't have that kind of format. Keeping each of the books separate has its advantages, too, but I wish there was a class index as well as the spell and feat indices that are already there.

John Kretzer wrote:

That sort of stuff is where the online SRDs shine.

-Skeld

Indeed. The one on Paizo's website, though, doesn't have that kind of format. Keeping each of the books separate has its advantages, too, but I wish there was a class index as well as the spell and feat indices that are already there.

What Skeld is referring to isn't the Paizo PRD, but the community-supported SRD here.

There, you can find things such as the Feats Database and the Feat Tree.

A very awesome resource!

I'm curious about this book, though for me it won't fill any sort of hole in my collection.

What I am really looking forward to seeing is something like the WoTC Rules Compendium book, which would be pretty damn handy.

The base system's been pretty stable for years now, and the addition of bestiaries, classes and the like doesn't affect that base, which means that a smallish book of just rules would be an awesome thing.

Anyways, I'll keep hoping. Unlike a spell compendium or feat compendium, it would not get out of date. Once it came out, it was my go-to book for rules.

It's also worth pointing out Archives of Nethys. He's working on getting all of the Paizo Pathfinder rules online, and is up to date except for a couple of the most recent releases. It also has an advantage over d20pfsrd, in that d20pfsrd has to rename some abilities because it's a commercial site and must rely entirely on the OGL, not the Paizo community license. So, sometimes things will have a different name from what they have in the Paizo Pathfinder books, whereas the names on Archives of Nethys will match.

If you're into PFS, Archives of Nethys also puts a little "open road glyph" icon next to things that are PFS legal. The site warns that this should be used as a guideline, as it's always possible he made an error somewhere, but it's handy.

Skeld wrote:

John Kretzer wrote:

That sort of stuff is where the online SRDs shine.

-Skeld

Indeed. The one on Paizo's website, though, doesn't have that kind of format. Keeping each of the books separate has its advantages, too, but I wish there was a class index as well as the spell and feat indices that are already there.

What Skeld is referring to isn't the Paizo PRD, but the community-supported SRD here.

There, you can find things such as the Feats Database and the Feat Tree.

A very awesome resource!

Indeed. OTOH, I just spent a good half hour looking for "Focused Worker" (a feat) in that srd. It's mentioned in the description of "Focused Overseer," to which I had a link from a post here, but there's no link to "Worker" in the "Overseer" description, and neither of them is listed in the index of general feats. I finally went to the feats db and found that "Focused Worker" is in the "Quests and Campaigns" Player Companion, so I went upstairs and got the book. Who do I talk to about updating the srd, or should I do it myself?

I'm curious about this book, though for me it won't fill any sort of hole in my collection.

What I am really looking forward to seeing is something like the WoTC Rules Compendium book, which would be pretty damn handy.

The base system's been pretty stable for years now, and the addition of bestiaries, classes and the like doesn't affect that base, which means that a smallish book of just rules would be an awesome thing.

Anyways, I'll keep hoping. Unlike a spell compendium or feat compendium, it would not get out of date. Once it came out, it was my go-to book for rules.

You know that's the kind of book that publishers do when they're finished with one edition and preparing for the next. Compendiums are the "Cleanup" books that the more junior designers and developers hone their skills on while the senior people work on the next edition.

That's also why they don't go out of date.. they're the death-knell of the current edition.

It's also worth pointing out Archives of Nethys. He's working on getting all of the Paizo Pathfinder rules online, and is up to date except for a couple of the most recent releases. It also has an advantage over d20pfsrd, in that d20pfsrd has to rename some abilities because it's a commercial site and must rely entirely on the OGL, not the Paizo community license. So, sometimes things will have a different name from what they have in the Paizo Pathfinder books, whereas the names on Archives of Nethys will match.

If you're into PFS, Archives of Nethys also puts a little "open road glyph" icon next to things that are PFS legal. The site warns that this should be used as a guideline, as it's always possible he made an error somewhere, but it's handy.

Thanks for providing the info! :) I have an agreement with Paizo where I don't release material for a book until two weeks past street date, so in that regard, it's up to date (except that Inner Sea NPC Guide I really need to do... bah).

Skeld wrote:

John Kretzer wrote:

That sort of stuff is where the online SRDs shine.

-Skeld

Indeed. The one on Paizo's website, though, doesn't have that kind of format. Keeping each of the books separate has its advantages, too, but I wish there was a class index as well as the spell and feat indices that are already there.

What Skeld is referring to isn't the Paizo PRD, but the community-supported SRD here.

There, you can find things such as the Feats Database and the Feat Tree.

A very awesome resource!

the Databases have all of the Paizo IP and naming, and as a side note they had to be move to another site, but they are still linked from d20pfsrd.com

There are also a spells, magic item, bestiary and NPC DBs all updated monthly.

I just want to second Archives of Nethys. For me at least, it's the single most useful website for making Pathfinder characters.

I am wondering if this book will contain something very useful (and if not maybe you guys can still add it) a master index for all the classes, feats, spells, archetypes, etc to appear in the Pathfinder hardcover line.

That alone could get me to buy this book.

Think of this book as a friendly guide to the Core Rulebook with a focus on building, leveling, and playing a character from that book. Anything that doesn't directly contribute to those things does not belong here.

I just want to second Archives of Nethys. For me at least, it's the single most useful website for making Pathfinder characters.

Thirded. Between the "no Golarion IP" and "oh hey that's cool oh wait it's 3PP" problems d20pfsrd has, Archives of Nethys wins for me too. Also, I'm a sucker for white text on black backgrounds ;-)

Yeah, I'll throw in on Archives of Nethys, too. It's laid out a lot better and is generally less cluttered than the SRD.

I like both honestly. It feels like the both serve slightly different niches for me, I got to Nethys for looking up specific feats, but for a full character class I will go to the d20pfsrd.

Lord Snow wrote:

Thing is I don't think I will have a use for this book anyway - I firmly believe in gradually showing new aspects of a game to a new player. So if I'ms starting a group of newbies I'll just make their first characters for them, and won't even bother to try and teach them the rules before the game starts - whenever a rule becomes relevant, I'll explain it and show the players the relevant sections of their character sheets.

When the time comes to create a second character I'd sit down with them and help them with it - for example, by asking them what they want their characters to do and when they tell me, narrow the feat selection options down to the few most relevant ones. I will also encourage the players to just look over the list, with no pressure, and if they find character creation fun they will figure things out sooner or later anyway. If they don't, I'm always willing to help.

Which is awesome if a new player has somebody like you to help them out. In my opinion, that is the best way to teach a new player the game. Unfortunately, we can't box great GMs and sell them to new players, so this book will be the next best thing. Think of it as that guy at your table that the rest of the players always ask questions when they are leveling their characters like "Which feat should I take?" "What new spell should I add?"

Many players don't have a great experienced GM to help them or a know-it-all fellow player. This book is meant to fill that gap.

-Lisa

I for one had to learn on my own for my son and I. I didn't have anyone I could talk to about tabletop rpg's except the forums and the rulebooks. Now that I'm starting to transition from BB to core rules, I'm really looking forward to this book. I've been relying too much on Hero Lab to sort my options for me and "teach" me what's available to different classes. This is EXACTLY what I was wishing for a few months ago. Thanks for making this product!

James0235 wrote:

Pushed back again?

Unfortunately, yes it was.

Okay, then let me be the first to predict this book as a Gencon 2015 release -- assuming that it makes no mention of Pathfinder Unchained, in which case all bets are off.

Nice! This looks great! Was wondering if this book will delve into leveling passed Level 20. I know there's plenty of companions online that outline it pretty well, but it would be nice to see a Paizo specific outline. Thanks!

Nice! This looks great! Was wondering if this book will delve into leveling passed Level 20. I know there's plenty of companions online that outline it pretty well, but it would be nice to see a Paizo specific outline. Thanks!

Not this book, no.

Nice! This looks great! Was wondering if this book will delve into leveling passed Level 20. I know there's plenty of companions online that outline it pretty well, but it would be nice to see a Paizo specific outline. Thanks!

In pathfinder as of right now there is no past level 20 play. There is Mythic for high powered play.

In pathfinder as of right now there is no past level 20 play. There is Mythic for high powered play.

That's not exactly true, there is a small section in the CRB that has "Advancing Beyond 20th Level", and it basically gives rough rules on just that. How saving throws, BAB, spells and class abilities advance.

I think really if you hit twenty it is better to just restart your game with new characters. That said I believe you could also extend by hitting twenty and then adding mythic.

Well, if that’s what works best for you and what you find fun, then that’s all that matters. But many of us find playing post-20 (not including Mythic levels) fun as well.

I know our GM has told us that the campaign he has planned out, with what we have to do, will take us into the high 20s/30 character levels, as well as the 10 Mythic levels.

True, I really should put "In my opinion" onto that, though to be fair I have never actually played a game at that level.

Lubunis wrote:

Nice! This looks great! Was wondering if this book will delve into leveling passed Level 20. I know there's plenty of companions online that outline it pretty well, but it would be nice to see a Paizo specific outline. Thanks!

Not this book, no.

Hmmm, maybe in Pathfinder Unchained, then?

It'd also be nice if simplified/better rules for magic item creation is part of one of these books, especially when it comes to Staves.

John Kretzer wrote:

Ah...I thought hardcover were a little more expensive to make due the materials used in the cover and differrent bindings...but I will bow to your superior knowledge in this.

To be perfectly fair, it does cost a little bit more to make a hardcover, but only a few cents per book. Not enough to really materially affect the price, which is of course what most people want to change when they request a softcover over a hardcover. At best, you might see a lower price of a buck. And what is the difference between $29.99 vs. $28.99?

The only way to get this book cheaper is to make it a smaller number of pages, and that would defeat the purpose of the book by not allowing us to provide the content that is needed. We made it as small as we could to keep the price as low as we can.

-Lisa

Really looking forward to this book - and as someone who tends to collect a LOT of RPG books, I much much prefer the hardcovers and do pay more for them. They simply last longer.

It does seem strange that the price difference isn't more pronounced between softcover and hardcover, not due so much to the cover but the binding itself imo. Pages in well worn softcover books tend to pull loose from the glue used to secure them. And while I know not very many publishers use the older binding methods for hardcovers (referring to the use of string or twine), still, the pages stay more secure even in a glue bound hardcover.

Will the book contain information about 'How to make an Pathfinder Adventure Path most enjoyable'?

preconditions for the players and their investment in play.

It's a shame this got pushed back, but I'm definitely still looking forward to it.

Cheers!
Landon

It's off to the printer.