|
CURSE YOU, Kretzer! :DBack to the F5 minesYou have my sympathy...and I say this without any intentions to rub it in....but I am expecting to actually get my physical copies of the book today or tomorrow. :)
Lol my pdf's just came in. If it helps I think it is worth the wait.
Also I love the starter quote for the book about orcs and the Hold of Belkzen. The idea that part of why the Orcs are such a threat to the rest of Avistan has as much to do with their resource poor environment and their prolific birth rate as it does with their own war like disposition.
I was in the process of logging into my paizo account to download the .pdf of Inner Sea Combat when the doorbell rang. It was the postman with my print copy. I am not making this up.
In other news, apparently one of the three gemstones in my wedding ring has apparently gone dark. Hmmm....
I hate you all soooo much right now. >This hatred will pass once I get my pdfs< :D
*looks up from reading his physical copy* You still have not got your pdfs yet?
I have to say that I find it kind of odd that Saventh is listed as 'only' a fighter 20/champion 6 considering that she basically defeated a god single handedly. At least, the more recent descriptions of Ydersius make him sound like a god rather than a demigod.
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have to say that I find it kind of odd that Saventh is listed as 'only' a fighter 20/champion 6 considering that she basically defeated a god single handedly. At least, the more recent descriptions of Ydersius make him sound like a god rather than a demigod.
NPCs get to do things PCs can't.
I'm getting this when it shows up at my local store. So how are the variant combat rules? Anything interesting/game changing for martials to do?
|
|
I've seen the monstrous mount feat on the SRD. Is there more mounts to choose from in the book or is griffin, hippogrith and worg the only options
right now just those 4 but hopefully that will get expanded upon if this feat takes off.
That being said I'm not a fan of how your magical beast is still effectively an animal mechanically but you need 2 feats to get all the abilities it has.
Hopefully that will get patched out and we'll get more creatures soon like hydras and chimeras though ^-^.
What is the second feat that is required for unlocking the full abilities?
There is a bit of fluff, not much more than a paragraph or so. Mostly describes about how the Ulfen Guard are the valued bodyguards of Taldan nobility specifically Stavian III. The crunchy part of the block basically makes them...well Civilized barbarian guards. Most of their abilities are heavy on Defense, either of themselves or a "target ally" that boosts their abilities when they are within a certain range of them.Looking forward to getting this one every time I hear more about it.
And Durvin Gest, the founder of the Pathfinders, was a fighter? Knock me down and call me shorty, I would have sworn he was a bard in game terms.
And oh yes, what does it have to say about the Varangian, I mean Ulfen Guard? I hope there's some fluff along with the crunch.
That makes sense given their focus, thanks.
It gives you access to a (very) limited list of creatures to use as mounts/animal companions. I imagine there will be more in the future or as GMs rule but right now the four are Griffon, Hippocampus, Hippogriff and Worg.
The monstrous mount feat is awesome.And it's awesome because it does.....?
I think I want the Monstrous Mount feat. Pity about worgs, though; given their size I assume that they can only be taken as mounts by small characters?
And again, thanks for this information.
So, rage powers and rage per day stacks from Barbarian to Ulfen Guard.
Is there *any* reason why I shouldn't prestige into Ulfen Guard, barring flavor reasons?
|
So, rage powers and rage per day stacks from Barbarian to Ulfen Guard.
Is there *any* reason why I shouldn't prestige into Ulfen Guard, barring flavor reasons?
-d10 hit dice
-No Favored Class bonus-No Barbarian Class feature progression other than rage (like DR, Tireless Rage, and Mighty Rage).
-Only a max of 3 Rage Powers over 10 levels instead of 5.
-Delayed access to Greater Rage (by one level, but still).
There are certainly also lots of reasons to take it...but it's not an inst-win choice. In particular, the Invulnerable Rager Superstition Barbarian (one of the most optimal Barbarian builds) loses a lot from this Prestige Class (5 DR, +3 to all Saves).
I'd still take it in a heartbeat on the right character (+30 on Diplomacy as a Barbarian in Full Plate? Why yes, that does sound amusing...) but it's not unambiguously better or anything.
Wow. This book has some of the *best* Rogue Talents that I have ever seen. Between this book, Champions of Balance, and Magical Marketplace, the developers are really churning out some quality rogue PC options.
And it looks like there's been a lot of good prestige classes as well. I'm pretty happy with a lot of the recent products.
And it looks like there's been a lot of good prestige classes as well. I'm pretty happy with a lot of the recent products.
I'm not crazy about the Pure Enforcer prestige class from this book. It doesn't really acquire any combative abilities; a few defenses, a lot of detection effects, but nothing that strongly fits the combative theme that the rest of the product subscribes to.
I'm also not crazy about the Ulfen Guard prestige class because what's essentially a racial prestige class feels a bit out of place in this book. Of all the races to give a Prestige Class to, why humans? I'm more forgiving to the Ouat monk archetype because A) it details an interesting culture and more importantly, B) it actually creates a new type of archetype that actually feels deserving of being called a "racial archetype."
I'm *really* fond of the Ouat monk, as a matter of fact.
Eh, well the Pure Legion Enforcer looks like more of an NPC class. Makes sense since this is a campaign setting book. The whole point of it is to root out religious cults in Rahadoum, and it does a good job of that.
|
Developer
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm more forgiving to the Ouat monk archetype because A) it details an interesting culture and more importantly, B) it actually creates a new type of archetype that actually feels deserving of being called a "racial archetype."
I'm *really* fond of the Ouat monk, as a matter of fact.
Yay!
Order of the first law cavalier + Demondand Tiefling (Or jungle-born half-ords) + Pure Legion Enforcer = ultimate anti-divine killing machine.
|
|
I'm also really digging the Ouat Dwarf archetype as much for the flavor as for the mechanical implications it presents by having an archetype that replaces racial abilities as well as class ones. Now I'm not saying I think it totally works in the favor of the Ouat build everywhere in the arch but the concept is really exciting and I would love to see this concept explored further.
Wow. This book has some of the *best* Rogue Talents that I have ever seen.
Hehehe, excellent joke there. I got a peek at the Skill Stunts and they looked ridiculously situational. Drop sneak attack dice to cause the target to lose a round of holding his or her breath... only when underwater, and after a successful Swim check against CMD?
Really?
There's even a once-per-round limitation.
Now, the Acrobatics one, that's even *better.* The rogue can make an Acrobatics check against CMD immediate action to step out of being flanked. And he can't step out of the attacker's reach. And if he fails, he falls prone right when the flanker's attack happens.
And that one's worth the APG-style per-day limit.
-Matt
Wow. This book has some of the *best* Rogue Talents that I have ever seen.Hehehe, excellent joke there.
Actually, I wasn't kidding.
Rogues get an at-will Dex-to-damage option in Flight Stunt; while clearly not a Level 2 talent, flight isn't exactly hard to pull off at higher levels.
Swim Stunt is great if you're playing an unterwater game, or better yet, if you're GMing a game where the PCs are forced to go underwater. It's situational, sure, but it's situationally deadly.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Rogues get an at-will Dex-to-damage option in Flight Stunt; while clearly not a Level 2 talent, flight isn't exactly hard to pull off at higher levels.
Note that Rogues cannot actually take ranks in the Fly skill. On top of that, the flight stunt requires a Fly check against CMD, as a swift action, while charging from the air. That's not exactly at-will. But apparently it's so powerful that the extra damage needs to be precision damage.
Swim Stunt is great if you're playing an unterwater game, or better yet, if you're GMing a game where the PCs are forced to go underwater. It's situational, sure, but it's situationally deadly.
Do you know how many rounds, and thus how many dice of sneak damage, would have to be sacrificed for this talent to have any actual effect at all?
A 14-Con enemy can hold its breath for 28 rounds. We're looking at at least 20 rounds the rogue would have to strip away, by sacrificing 20d6 of sneak attack. Keep in mind that the Rogue can only make the attempt (which fails on a missed attack, might I add) once per round. And this stunt doesn't actually kill the target, it just forces the target to start making Constitution checks. Sneak attack damage, that does work to kill the target. Simple mathematics tell us that using this stunt actually makes the target live longer than it would if the Rogue rolled his d6s.
-Matt
Yeah, and if you're doing underwater adventures, I would assume most enemies could breathe underwater.
It's neat in that it hasn't been done before, but it would need to be something like 1 round of breath per sneak attack dice to be usable, even in that specific scenario.
Looks like some of this stuff has been uploaded to the PFSRD! Reading the stunts now.
Benefit(s): Once per day, when flanked by at least two opponents, a rogue with this talent can, as an immediate action when any of the threatening opponents attacks her, attempt an Acrobatics check against the highest CMD of the threatening creatures plus 2 per threatening creature beyond the second. If successful, the rogue may take a 5-foot step in any direction, so long as she remains within the reach of the attacker triggering the movement. The rogue's final position is used to determine whether the attacker benefits from flanking. On a failed check, the rogue falls prone in her original position and the attack resolves as normal (the opponent gains a +4 bonus for attacking a prone target).
A rogue may use this ability one additional time per day for every 5 rogue levels she possesses.
So once per day, if you succeed at an acrobatics check vs CMD, you can avoid flanking. If you fail the check, you are instead knocked prone.
That... May set a new record for most circumstantial rogue talent of all time.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Swim Stunt is great if you're playing an unterwater game, or better yet, if you're GMing a game where the PCs are forced to go underwater. It's situational, sure, but it's situationally deadly.Do you know how many rounds, and thus how many dice of sneak damage, would have to be sacrificed for this talent to have any actual effect at all?
A 14-Con enemy can hold its breath for 28 rounds. We're looking at at least 20 rounds the rogue would have to strip away, by sacrificing 20d6 of sneak attack. Keep in mind that the Rogue can only make the attempt (which fails on a missed attack, might I add) once per round. And this stunt doesn't actually kill the target, it just forces the target to start making Constitution checks. Sneak attack damage, that does work to kill the target. Simple mathematics tell us that using this stunt actually makes the target live longer than it would if the Rogue rolled his d6s.
-Matt
Your goal as GM isn't to kill the PCs, its to provide tension and drama. Using that stunt instead of simple damage can make the players start counting rounds of air and inject some variety because you're worried about more than just HP like every other fight.
Rogues get an at-will Dex-to-damage option in Flight Stunt; while clearly not a Level 2 talent, flight isn't exactly hard to pull off at higher levels.Note that Rogues cannot actually take ranks in the Fly skill.
Untrue. Anyone can take ranks in Fly once they have access to flight.
You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability).
Nothing offered by the Rogue class satisfies these requirements.
-Matt
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability).Nothing offered by the Rogue class satisfies these requirements.
-Matt
Which is not even close to the same thing as saying they can't take the skill.
You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability).Nothing offered by the Rogue class satisfies these requirements.
-Matt
Owning a magic item such as wings of flying will do. Or being a race such as strix that can fly.
Or having a wizard in the party who shares.
Hey, if you guys want to make a character who uses these stunts, I'm not aiming to stop you. I intend to call attention to how limited, restrictive, and situational these stunts are. I was really hoping that Inner Sea Combat would not add any more ammunition to fuel the deluge of "Paizo hates Rogues" threads, but I have to say, material like this really proves the point.
-Matt does the Arrested Development sad walk again.
Hey, if you guys want to make a character who uses these stunts, I'm not aiming to stop you. I intend to call attention to how limited, restrictive, and situational these stunts are. I was really hoping that Inner Sea Combat would not add any more ammunition to fuel the deluge of "Paizo hates Rogues" threads, but I have to say, material like this really proves the point.
-Matt does the Arrested Development sad walk again.
Well, you can't just arbitrarily raise the power level of rogue talents. That would be undeniable power creep. So Paizo is stuck with the power level they have established for rogue talents, which is roughly equivalent to a feat.
Dexterity to damage is GOOD. It's why Paizo has been so hesitant to hand it out. Prior to Inner Sea Combat, we've had four reliable ways: be Mythic and take Weapon Finesse (Mythic), get a finesse weapon with the Agile property, be an Aldori Swordlord, or grab the Dervish Dancer feat. With Ultimate Campaign, we're up to six ways: there's a new Aldori dueling feat that'll do it for you (it adds Dex to damage instead of Strength whenever you deal damage to a character who is shaken, frightened, pr panicked) and there's also this rogue talent, that allows you to add your Dexterity to damage rolls as precision damage when you charge your opponent from above. Note that as written, this talent *technically* stacks with all of the aforementioned ways of adding Dexterity to damage, but it has the limitation of being on charge attacks only.
Which is hardly a restriction if you're a rogue with the Scout archetype. You can charge foes, deal sneak attack damage to them, and thereby trigger this talent. Is it a game-breakingly powerful trick? Of course not, but it's something cool that a rogue with some cold to spend on a wand of fly (or a friendly party wizard) could make excellent use of.
Well, you can't just arbitrarily raise the power level of rogue talents. That would be undeniable power creep. So Paizo is stuck with the power level they have established for rogue talents, which is roughly equivalent to a feat.
For now (and probably for along time)I only have money for one paizo book, and that book will probably be inner sea combat.
But this are the kind of things that let me down and make me think twice.
Almost every class have recived tons of shameless power creep. Barbarian, paladins, rangers you name it.
APG rage power ROLFstopm core ones so hard hta tis not even fun. Every class recives lots of tricks to replace the roug, but the poor roge can not recive a little of power creep.
Hopefully this is not the situation, and the book have soem rogue option that are good and not ones that just be there waiting because nobody ever take them.
Wow. This book has some of the *best* Rogue Talents that I have ever seen. Between this book, Champions of Balance, and Magical Marketplace, the developers are really churning out some quality rogue PC options.
Can you spoil them a bit for me? :)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Spellscar Drifter needs errata. His challenge is the base cavalier challenge. It cannot apply to his gun.
Well, you can't just arbitrarily raise the power level of rogue talents. That would be undeniable power creep. So Paizo is stuck with the power level they have established for rogue talents, which is roughly equivalent to a feat.
For now (and probably for along time)I only have money for one paizo book, and that book will probably be inner sea combat.
But this are the kind of things that let me down and make me think twice.
Almost every class have recived tons of shameless power creep. Barbarian, paladins, rangers you name it.
APG rage power ROLFstopm core ones so hard hta tis not even fun. Every class recives lots of tricks to replace the roug, but the poor roge can not recive a little of power creep.
Hopefully this is not the situation, and the book have soem rogue option that are good and not ones that just be there waiting because nobody ever take them.
Don't have the book, but so far the three talents spoilered in this thread include: Not doing sneak attack damage when you could effectively making an enemy live longer; Dropping prone between two flanking enemies so they can hit you better; And adding Dex to damage IF you beat a monsters CMD, itself a losing preposition, using a skill you can't even put points into until late game. So far apparently rogue talents have reached a new low.
I don't have access to the ISC (yet), but I did find these on the PFSRD:
Climbing Stunt
Disabling Stunt
Escaping Stunt
Flying Stunt
Riding Stunt
Sleight of Hand Stunt
Stealth Stunt
Swimming Stunt
The PFSRD states that "stunt talents" work slightly differently from normal talents, but it's not quite clear to me what they mean:
Skill Stunts: Talents with "Stunt" in the name are a new type of rogue talent. A rogue may select multiple skill stunts, each keyed to a different Dexterity- or Strength-based skill, but may not select the same one twice.
I'd like to note that there might well be other (non-stunt) talents in the book as well, but these are all the new talents I could find on the PFSRD. I'll keep looking.
Edit: Found two more, Sleight of Hand stunt (added above) and Firearm Familiarity.
Don't have the book, but so far the three talents spoilered in this thread include: Not doing sneak attack damage when you could effectively making an enemy live longer; Dropping prone between two flanking enemies so they can hit you better; And adding Dex to damage IF you beat a monsters CMD, itself a losing preposition, using a skill you can't even put points into until late game. So far apparently rogue talents have reached a new low.
I have to agree with this unfortunately. While some of the new talents can be nice in some very specific circumstances I can't imagine spending the equivilent of a feat on them.
The only thing that could save the rogue is if some rogue equivilent of barbarian totems was invented for them: groups of more powerful than normal rogue talents. They would have the same limiations as totems in that each rogue could only gain talents from one group. It was done for the barbarian (and made the class much better), so why can't the rogue get the same?
I'll be honest, as things are right now most rogue talents are so sitational I'm tempted to *double* the number that the class gets in my games. With the extra talents players would not have to be as worried about picking the situational ones.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have not got the chance to look at the rogue talents much...but I do spot a very serious flaw with the acrobatics one.
It is not that beating a opponents CMD is that hard to do...
It is not that on a failure you become prone...
It is not even that it is circumstantial in that you have to be flanked.
It is that after 8th level this talent because 99% useless as you can't be flanked except by a rogue 4 levels higher than you.
Don't have the book, but so far the three talents spoilered in this thread include: Not doing sneak attack damage when you could effectively making an enemy live longer; Dropping prone between two flanking enemies so they can hit you better; And adding Dex to damage IF you beat a monsters CMD, itself a losing preposition, using a skill you can't even put points into until late game. So far apparently rogue talents have reached a new low.
I really don't think the snark is conducive to an informative conversation :\
@Kudaku
Thanks! They look very situational, but they also look like they could be a lot of fun, too.
|
Hey, if you guys want to make a character who uses these stunts, I'm not aiming to stop you. I intend to call attention to how limited, restrictive, and situational these stunts are. I was really hoping that Inner Sea Combat would not add any more ammunition to fuel the deluge of "Paizo hates Rogues" threads, but I have to say, material like this really proves the point.
-Matt does the Arrested Development sad walk again.
Well, you can't just arbitrarily raise the power level of rogue talents. That would be undeniable power creep. So Paizo is stuck with the power level they have established for rogue talents, which is roughly equivalent to a feat.
Dexterity to damage is GOOD. It's why Paizo has been so hesitant to hand it out. Prior to Inner Sea Combat, we've had four reliable ways: be Mythic and take Weapon Finesse (Mythic), get a finesse weapon with the Agile property, be an Aldori Swordlord, or grab the Dervish Dancer feat. With Ultimate Campaign, we're up to six ways: there's a new Aldori dueling feat that'll do it for you (it adds Dex to damage instead of Strength whenever you deal damage to a character who is shaken, frightened, pr panicked) and there's also this rogue talent, that allows you to add your Dexterity to damage rolls as precision damage when you charge your opponent from above. Note that as written, this talent *technically* stacks with all of the aforementioned ways of adding Dexterity to damage, but it has the limitation of being on charge attacks only.
Which is hardly a restriction if you're a rogue with the Scout archetype. You can charge foes, deal sneak attack damage to them, and thereby trigger this talent. Is it a game-breakingly powerful trick? Of course not, but it's something cool that a rogue with some cold to spend on a wand of fly (or a friendly party wizard) could make excellent use of.
Hmm, curious to learn more about the Aldori feat you mentioned. If it synergizes with the Sword Lord archtype or PrC, we might have something workable here.
Plus, there is still supposedly the closest to straight Dex-to-damage we've seen yet coming in the ACG, and the Slayer sure looks to me like it's a full-BAB take on the Rogue.
I have to say so far apart from the Escape Stunt, the new rogue talents have not impressed me. I'm hoping that the "skill stunt" distinction means they function differently than normal rogue talents somehow.
I especially dislike the climb stunt. I'd really prefer to see that as a default option for climb checks.
Fun tips for the impatient readers (like me): You can do a PFSRD search with "pathfinder campaign setting: inner sea combat" as the search phrase in quotation marks, it'll bring up everything uploaded onto the SRD that lists the ISC as source.
Edit: I believe this is the dexterity to damage feat Alexander mentioned.
Edit Edit: Redirected Shot is quite possibly the coolest gunslinger feat of all time. Kudos to whoever came up with that one!
Hmm, curious to learn more about the Aldori feat you mentioned. If it synergizes with the Sword Lord...
If you already add Dex to damage, then the feat adds a small +1 circumstance bonus on damage rolls against shaken, frightened, or panicked opponents instead. It's okay, but it's definitely better suited to a Swordlord who doesn't go into the Swordlord Prestige Class.