Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Strategy Guide (OGL)

the description of the reach weapon threatened squares in this guide does not seem to match the FAQ item on this same topic

It's been mentioned. This was already at the printer when that FAQ was developed.

Lamontius wrote:

the description of the reach weapon threatened squares in this guide does not seem to match the FAQ item on this same topic

It's been mentioned. This was already at the printer when that FAQ was developed.

figured

I think they left that in intentionally to show that sometimes FAQs will occasionally override printed material. All part of the learning experience!

Don't hate me... To me this is the WORST book out so far. I got mine and find this book great if you are a new player, or you want to Min/Max your character so bad it is not funny.

I am seeing more and more of Pathfinder becoming a Min/Maxer system. I see it in PFS, I see it in regular play. This book offers nothing to a player of more than 5 year.

If your new to Pen and Pager RPG, then this book might be for you, that is if you want to make a character that is so bad arse they can kill a dragon at 5th level. If you want to play a good realiastic flawed character that is far more fun to RP... then avoid this book.

But do not take advice from a gamer of 30+ years, unless you want good advice

Given how phenomenally bad Paizo's design team seems to be at building min/maxed or even effective characters (to judge from the NPCs present in every AP, module, the NPC Codex, or the Pathfinder Society pregens), I'll be genuinely surprised if this is actually true.

PS: "Take power attack" doesn't count as min/maxing; that's basic competency.

IceniQueen wrote:

Don't hate me... To me this is the WORST book out so far. I got mine and find this book great if you are a new player, or you want to Min/Max your character so bad it is not funny.

I am seeing more and more of Pathfinder becoming a Min/Maxer system. I see it in PFS, I see it in regular play. This book offers nothing to a player of more than 5 year.

If your new to Pen and Pager RPG, then this book might be for you, that is if you want to make a character that is so bad arse they can kill a dragon at 5th level. If you want to play a good realiastic flawed character that is far more fun to RP... then avoid this book.

But do not take advice from a gamer of 30+ years, unless you want good advice

Given how phenomenally bad Paizo's design team seems to be at building min/maxed or even effective characters (to judge from the NPCs present in every AP, module, the NPC Codex, or the Pathfinder Society pregens), I'll be genuinely surprised if this is actually true.

PS: "Take power attack" doesn't count as min/maxing; that's basic competency.

These two comments, taken together, lead me to believe the book is precisely where it needs to be.

While I've not read all the way through yet, I'm not seeing anything overly broken. Unless you count advice that recommends you take Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning if you want to summon things as overpowered min-maxing.

Don't hate me... To me this is the WORST book out so far.

I understand this is your opinion, but... really? The WORST book so far? That seems a tad hyperbolic, don't you think?

I got mine and find this book great if you are a new player, or you want to Min/Max your character so bad it is not funny.

You know what IS funny? This book was created precisely for *new players*.

I am seeing more and more of Pathfinder becoming a Min/Maxer system. I see it in PFS, I see it in regular play. This book offers nothing to a player of more than 5 year.

This book wasn't really supposed to offer anything to a seasoned player, except a way to help introduce new players to the world of tabletop RPGs. As for Min/Maxing... well, how (or why) exactly would you create a book of bad strategies? A new player doesn't have the experience and insight to understand the nuance of how to create a Wizard with a couple flaws. No one wants to play a completely gimped character, but that doesn't mean you have to go the complete opposite and min/max every little detail. This book is meant to give NEW PLAYERS some of that insight so they know where the heck to even start.

If your new to Pen and Pager RPG, then this book might be for you, that is if you want to make a character that is so bad arse they can kill a dragon at 5th level. If you want to play a good realiastic flawed character that is far more fun to RP... then avoid this book.

Once again, the Paizo team has said numerous times in this thread that this book was geared toward new players that were having trouble making sense of the game with the Core Rulebook alone. This shouldn't be coming as a surprise.

But do not take advice from a gamer of 30+ years, unless you want good advice

I'm having trouble understanding how someone that has been gaming for 30+ years could have a problem with the introduction of a book for new players. The only reason that makes sense that I can come up with is that you're worried this will bring new players into the tabletop RPG world. Perhaps you're worried about the barrier of entry being too low? Bitter that 'kids these days' have it so easy? I mean really, you couldn't make yourself sound any more like a grumpy ol' grouch than with this post. :P

-------------------------------

Paizo - this book is GREAT! I can't wait to show it to my group, as we're all newbies to the tabletop RPG world, and most of group has trouble opening the CRB and spending too much time in there without losing interest. We all enjoy playing the game and this will only serve to make it better!

The Cleric is one of my favorite classes. I'm disappointed that it seems the writers forgot to write down a list of recommended/useful spells for level-1 clerics as they did for other classes, unless I'm missing something.

But so far, I'm really enjoying this book!

Don't hate me... To me this is the WORST book out so far. I got mine and find this book great if you are a new player, or you want to Min/Max your character so bad it is not funny.

I am seeing more and more of Pathfinder becoming a Min/Maxer system. I see it in PFS, I see it in regular play. This book offers nothing to a player of more than 5 year.

If your new to Pen and Pager RPG, then this book might be for you, that is if you want to make a character that is so bad arse they can kill a dragon at 5th level. If you want to play a good realiastic flawed character that is far more fun to RP... then avoid this book.

But do not take advice from a gamer of 30+ years, unless you want good advice

EDIT: Ninja'd by glio!

Under the heading of "Who this book is for" on page 5 of the aforementioned book:

"...Instead, we’ve made this book as both a guide for new players and a handy
teaching reference for experienced role-players.
This book will teach you the following:
- The basic terminology and concepts used by the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. - How to create player characters and advance them from level 1 to level 20.
- The basics of combat, from moving around the battlefield and engaging with foes to more advanced tricks like combat maneuvers and tactical analysis.
- The foundations of roleplaying, from meeting arch-mages and queens to solving mysteries and bargaining with dragons."

Under the heading of "What this book isn't" on page 5 of the aforementioned book:

"This book also isn’t intended to give experienced players advanced insights or cunning new strategies for optimizing their characters. The various guides in this book will show you how to make a character that is effective and fun to play, but
they are intended for new or inexperienced players as well as for those unaccustomed to playing that type of character." .

And now that I actually have my hands on the book, I have to say that I am in fact not surprised - the book doesn't tell you to do any of the many possible broken combos that you can get in core. "If you're doing X, take Y thing that lets you do X" isn't min/maxing by any stretch, and that's all the book really does besides give simplified explanations of the rules.

I've had the book for a few days and I definitely like it. My kids and I started with the core rulebook, got thoroughly confused, bought the Beginner Box, had a great time, and started on Rise of the Runelords.

The Core rulebook is confusing as hell. It's as if Paizo tried to make important info difficult to find. A rewrite of the core book would make Pathfinder much easier to learn.

The Beginner Box is terrific. This book is terrific. Paizo, please take that next step and reorganize the Core book. You don't have to change the rules, just make them easier to find. I started playing D&D 30 years ago. These games aren't new to me. You have a great product. It's all in the delivery. This book proves that you can present rules in a clear manner. Well done. The Strategy guide was worth the long wait.

The Core rulebook is confusing as hell. It's as if Paizo tried to make important info difficult to find. A rewrite of the core book would make Pathfinder much easier to learn.

This is honestly something that I would love to see, particularly since the Pathfinder Compatibility License prohibits third-parties from doing it.

Cue the PF2e hue and cry.

The Beginner Box is terrific. This book is terrific. Paizo, please take that next step and reorganize the Core book. You don't have to change the rules, just make them easier to find. I started playing D&D 30 years ago. These games aren't new to me. You have a great product. It's all in the delivery. This book proves that you can present rules in a clear manner. Well done. The Strategy guide was worth the long wait.

I explained why that's not likely to happen anytime soon about halfway back through the thread.

CorallineAlgae wrote:

The Beginner Box is terrific. This book is terrific. Paizo, please take that next step and reorganize the Core book. You don't have to change the rules, just make them easier to find. I started playing D&D 30 years ago. These games aren't new to me. You have a great product. It's all in the delivery. This book proves that you can present rules in a clear manner. Well done. The Strategy guide was worth the long wait.

I explained why that's not likely to happen anytime soon about halfway back through the thread.

I see. Well, considering that isn't an option, it makes the Strategy guide that much more indispensable. I love the game. The Beginner Box was the only way to make it accessible to my kids. This looks like it will help them get through many levels of play.

Hopefully, by the time we finish RotR and start on another AP, the Core Rulebook won't seem like such a rubik's cube. Giving new or young players an easier path into the game system was a good move. My kids will finally be able to gain mid-levels without having to decide between dozens of scattered confusing options, and they will still be able take their heroes in the direction they prefer. Mad props to the developers of this book.

Thanks! As Vic said above, a re-presentation of the Core Rulebook isn't really on the table, but that doesn't mean we're not following this feedback, and that we're not using what we learned from doing the Strategy Guide to continue to explore ways of lowering the barrier to entry for people who are new to the game.

I'm thrilled to hear that the Beginner Box and the Strategy Guide are making the game more accessible for your kids, and any feedback you have is welcome. :-)

I will just also echo the fact that it is a very well written book and incredibly easy to read. Even given the difficulties that Vic has presented I would urge Paizo to consider coming up with some form of core book written in a similar fashion.

Thanks! As Vic said above, a re-presentation of the Core Rulebook isn't really on the table, but that doesn't mean we're not following this feedback, and that we're not using what we learned from doing the Strategy Guide to continue to explore ways of lowering the barrier to entry for people who are new to the game.

I'm thrilled to hear that the Beginner Box and the Strategy Guide are making the game more accessible for your kids, and any feedback you have is welcome. :-)

Considering that Eric Mona just stated there are many people who start playing with Pathfinder - and therefore are a lot younger then the supposed D&D since Red Box/AD&D/etc veterans that grey out the hobby - and are of a different type, namely gamers that want a fast entry to a game, the strategy guide is definately a step into the right direction.

You already have the 10$ deal to keep the entry low, now there is the Core Campaign and with the strategy guide there´s another powerful help.

I have to say, this is not only about kids, it´s about a lot of people of all genders being scared by reading that big book or bringing up the time to familiarize themselves with the rules. Presentation is key there.

I got my copy of the book Saturday and spent the week going over it, as well as showing it to my children to get their take on it.

All in all I find that it does the job admirably. It isn't made for someone with tons of experience at character building and the rules in general -- although it makes a good companion to the Core Book for those people -- but instead is good for someone new to the game or unsure of themselves when it comes to building characters.

It doesn't cover everything -- archetypes, the ACG and so on -- and I wager that this leaves ample room for an Advanced Strategy Guide, Even More Strategy and so on. I do not regret purchasing this book. It will come in handy for my sons this summer when we start a new campaign as well as any new players that come in. Good job!

The trouble with rewriting the Core Rulebook in the same organization as the Strategy Guide is not only that it would have to be two books (as already mentioned) - which isn't so much of a problem since in 3.5 it was two books - but that to follow that organization logically feats and so forth would be printed along with the classes that most usually take them, which even if the rules don't explicitly straitjacket how one builds, would leave the impression that they do just that. The Core Rulebook is a reference; it's difficult to read in the same fashion that a dictionary is difficult to read and for the same reason. It's not good for learning how to play from scratch, but it's great as a reference tool for someone who already does know how to play. That's why the Strategy Guide now exists, and it should have existed long before now.

Got this book yesterday in the mail. I'm loving it, though I've only really skimmed it so far.
I did get caught up in the sorcerer entry. Did they just introduce three new bloodlines?
Or were they included to use as examples of leveling up?

Got this book yesterday in the mail. I'm loving it, though I've only really skimmed it so far.

I did get caught up in the sorcerer entry. Did they just introduce three new bloodlines?
Or were they included to use as examples of leveling up?

Used as examples. They are themes that use bloodlines from the Core Rulebook to help newbies learn the ropes, not new additions.

I'm trying to understand why it suggests Catch Off Guard for the Martial Warrior Monk theme. Can monks flurry with improvised weapons without the Empty Hand archetype? I can kinda see how it fits the theme a bit, but I almost feel like it pigeon holes you into going for Improved Disarm to take advantage of it. If you can't flurry with it then it means you can't pull the Disarm on first hit then follow up with bottle/barstool/frying pan for the remaining attacks. I think I'm missing something here.

This is an excellent book. I love the layout, and I feel that Paizo more than hit the mark for the book's target market. Great job, folks!

I love my book, is amazing. I still find myself searching through CRB, SRD, forum for some help. But with this guide everything is more easy.

Is there a errata for this book?
I found a little error while creating a dragonchild sorcerer, on page 96 it says "As a sorcerer you gain an additional skill bassed on your bloodline (see class feature)." But on class feature there is no mention of the additional skill. It should direct to the CRB page instead (p72-77).

Sorry for my english.

I'm trying to understand why it suggests Catch Off Guard for the Martial Warrior Monk theme. Can monks flurry with improvised weapons without the Empty Hand archetype? I can kinda see how it fits the theme a bit, but I almost feel like it pigeon holes you into going for Improved Disarm to take advantage of it. If you can't flurry with it then it means you can't pull the Disarm on first hit then follow up with bottle/barstool/frying pan for the remaining attacks. I think I'm missing something here.

*shrugs* they also recommend that sorcerers engage in melee.

I love my book, is amazing. I still find myself searching through CRB, SRD, forum for some help. But with this guide everything is more easy.

Is there a errata for this book?
I found a little error while creating a dragonchild sorcerer, on page 96 it says "As a sorcerer you gain an additional skill bassed on your bloodline (see class feature)." But on class feature there is no mention of the additional skill. It should direct to the CRB page instead (p72-77).

Sorry for my english.

Take a look at each of the bloodline entries on pages 72–77, and you should see an entry in each called "Class Skill." This grants the sorcerer an additional class skill based on her bloodline. For example, an aberrant bloodline sorcerer would gain Knowledge (dungeoneering) as a class skill in addition to Bluff, Craft, Fly, et cetera. Keep in mind that an additional class skill does not grant the sorcerer any free ranks in the skill, but it does mean she gains the +3 class skill bonus if she invests 1 or more ranks in the skill.

*shrugs* they also recommend that sorcerers engage in melee.

Of course, when your sorcerer has a 30 AC it isn't so bad an idea.

Not that I expect the target audience of this book to know how to manage that.

Corwin Icewolf wrote:

*shrugs* they also recommend that sorcerers engage in melee.

Of course, when your sorcerer has a 30 AC it isn't so bad an idea.

Not that I expect the target audience of this book to know how to manage that.

While I am not always in agreement with the advice given for the themes, I don't think that the advice they gave the dragon sorcerer is bad. Their 1st Level Bloodline Power is claws after all.

What a frustrating book, I don't need it at all in any shape or form, but it's now the only hardcover pathfinder book I don't own.

Gotta collect them all.

I flipped through this at the store the other day. I'll definitely pick it up here soon. I loved the layout and the wealth of options. I noticed new ways of looking at my favorite classes and how to play them. Most importantly, I now have a resource for classes that I never play or only play very rarely. As a GM, I think this book will really help with making NPCs.

Now I want an Advanced Strategy Guide for the classes in the Advanced Player's Guide and the Advanced Class Guide.

SM

Now I want an Advanced Strategy Guide for the classes in the Advanced Player's Guide and the Advanced Class Guide.

Perhaps this thread would interest you.

StarMartyr365 wrote:

Now I want an Advanced Strategy Guide for the classes in the Advanced Player's Guide and the Advanced Class Guide.

Perhaps this thread would interest you.

I've been following that thread for awhile now. Excellent work!

SM

It was good work, but the work is no longer accessible. Violated the EULA or something. Wish I had a template for the pages though. I'd make my own guides for the other classes, for my own use. Have to see what I can do on my own, I guess.

Yeah, I'd buy a "strategy guide" or two for the other 21 base classes. Heck, throw in the anti-Paladin (I wish we could come up with a better name than that) and call it 22.

anti-Paladin (I wish we could come up with a better name than that)

I don't really think coming up with a better name is a problem, there are lots of better names floating around. I think the antipaladin is the antipaladin solely for nostalgia's sake, evoking 1e. PF does a lot to give shoutouts to grognards and I think the antipaladin's name is one of those. If they wanted to ditch the history and use another name, they could come up with one in a heartbeat.

Ed Reppert wrote:

anti-Paladin (I wish we could come up with a better name than that)

I don't really think coming up with a better name is a problem, there are lots of better names floating around.

Yeah? Provide three examples, please. :-)

I don't mind "shoutouts" to old editions, but "anti-Paladin" just seems so ... clumsy to me.

Samy wrote:

Ed Reppert wrote:

anti-Paladin (I wish we could come up with a better name than that)

I don't really think coming up with a better name is a problem, there are lots of better names floating around.

Yeah? Provide three examples, please. :-)

foo, bar, bletch.

Yeah. Okay.

Would anyone happen to have a decent square-on image of the cover? I'm updating the Paizo section on RPG Resource, and have managed to find images of all the other recent books but not this one... really hate the squint product-shots used for the last few books!

Does this work Megan?

Yeah? Provide three examples, please. :-)

I don't mind "shoutouts" to old editions, but "anti-Paladin" just seems so ... clumsy to me.

My first choice would be 'Reaver,' for a CE 'paladin.'

Tyrant and Blackguard could work, as well. Maybe Knave or Transgressor or Defiler.

I'm less fond of two word names like Shadow Knight or Death Knight or Unholy Warrior or Dark Champion, but some are quite usable (Death Knight and Unholy Warrior, in particular, have already been used in Secret College of Necromancy and Green Ronin's Book of the Righteous spin-off, Unholy Warrior).

Of course, as with so many things, the old level-based names from 1st edition are a treasure trove of ideas;

Experience level Level title Horse (a) Unholy sword (b) Human retainers (c) Non-human retainers (c) Freehold

1 Caitiff 5% 100% 5%
2 Miscreant 10 95 5 10
3 Malefactor 15 90 10 15 (Manor)
4 Hellraiser 5% 20 85 15 25
5 Blackguard 10 25 80 20 30
6 Scoundrel 15 30 75 25 35
7 Dastard 20 35 70 30 40
8 Villain 25 40 65 35 45
9 Villain of the Deepest Dye 30 45 60 40 50 (Keep)
10 Fiend 35 50 55 45 60
11 Anti-Paladin 40 55 50 50 70
12 Anti-Paladin, 12th level 45 60 45 55 80
13 Anti-Paladin, 13th level 50 65 40 60 90
14 Anti-Paladin, 14th level 55 70 35 65 100 (Castle)

Malefactor's my favorite from that list.

I like Reaver too. :-)

Does this work Megan?

That's lovely, thank you so much; but I'm really after the book cover as it would appear if I had a copy. Could anyone with the PDF version do a screen shot of the cover please?

FINALLY found a decent image for my website :)

FINALLY found a decent image for my website :)

Hi there

I'm looking for a higher resolution of the cover art for drawing/illustrating purposes. I couldn't find it in this web. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!!

Megan Robertson wrote:

FINALLY found a decent image for my website :)

Hi there

I'm looking for a higher resolution of the cover art for drawing/illustrating purposes. I couldn't find it in this web. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!!

Pm'd you a link to a screenshot of the cover.

Antonio Fdez wrote:

Megan Robertson wrote:

FINALLY found a decent image for my website :)

Hi there

I'm looking for a higher resolution of the cover art for drawing/illustrating purposes. I couldn't find it in this web. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!!

Pm'd you a link to a screenshot of the cover.

Hi friend

That's a great help, although I'm looking for an image of just the artwork, not the cover of the book (I think I didn't explain myself in a good way). I really appreciate your help and if I don't find anything better, I'll use it to create my version of the illustration.

Thank you very much for your effort.

Antonio

H2Osw wrote:

Antonio Fdez wrote:

Megan Robertson wrote:

FINALLY found a decent image for my website :)

Hi there

I'm looking for a higher resolution of the cover art for drawing/illustrating purposes. I couldn't find it in this web. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!!

Pm'd you a link to a screenshot of the cover.

Hi friend

That's a great help, although I'm looking for an image of just the artwork, not the cover of the book (I think I didn't explain myself in a good way). I really appreciate your help and if I don't find anything better, I'll use it to create my version of the illustration.

Thank you very much for your effort.

Antonio

If you use TokenTool (Free program), you can typically get any image from the PDF. I've never tried taking the cover image, but I imagine that would work the same way.

Antonio Fdez wrote:

H2Osw wrote:

Antonio Fdez wrote:

Megan Robertson wrote:

FINALLY found a decent image for my website :)

Hi there

I'm looking for a higher resolution of the cover art for drawing/illustrating purposes. I couldn't find it in this web. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!!

Pm'd you a link to a screenshot of the cover.

Hi friend

That's a great help, although I'm looking for an image of just the artwork, not the cover of the book (I think I didn't explain myself in a good way). I really appreciate your help and if I don't find anything better, I'll use it to create my version of the illustration.

Thank you very much for your effort.

Antonio

If you use TokenTool (Free program), you can typically get any image from the PDF. I've never tried taking the cover image, but I imagine that would work the same way.

Good call I've got a pdf thing that rips art. Antonio I will check tomorrow if it's able to pull the front cover.