Pathfinder Module: The Dragon's Demand (PFRPG)

If the new module format better suits the passions and interests of the creators at Paizo, then I am for this change. That's the main (if not only) criterion for me, actually.

Bigger modules mean I can probably cannibalize from locations, ideas, and better inspiration. If the authors are having a blast then I'm more inclined to have a blast, too.

I have a question...

Is the idea of the dragon being the Big Bad not supposed to be apparent to the characters right off? I can understand putting "Dragon" in the title to increase sales, but I'm thinking it might be good to put out an alternative title out there so we can (as we so often do!) fool our players...

I have a question...

Is the idea of the dragon being the Big Bad not supposed to be apparent to the characters right off? I can understand putting "Dragon" in the title to increase sales, but I'm thinking it might be good to put out an alternative title out there so we can (as we so often do!) fool our players...

The idea that the dragon is the main goal of the adventure is not intended to be known by the characters at the start of the adventure, no. But if the players know that... that creates some fun anticipation, in the same way knowing some of the surprises and plot elements of a movie you learn from a movie's trailer can enhance your anticipation and enjoyment of the movie.

If you want to fool your players... just keep the adventure hidden behind the screen. And look into keeping them off the internet, I guess...

Does the new 64 page format mean more art or is it all story/maps?

...And look into keeping them off the internet, I guess...

Heh, that's THE major challenge as GM these days, I reckon. :D

Does the new 64 page format mean more art or is it all story/maps?

If you divide the number of pieces of art in a product by the number of pages, you get the average art-per-page count. That number should actually increase slightly with the higher page count. So, in general, expect fractionally more than double the art when compared to the old format.

(The reason for this is that doubling the page count actually gives us more than twice as many "content" pages, because we don't need to double things like the title page, OGL, ads, or the like.)

John Doe 207 357 wrote:

I would like to see how this module stand up since a dragon would normally be a major threat and would be a difficult task for starting 1st level players to handle.

They'll be 6-7th level by the end, which would make a CR 9-10 Dragon a good end encounter

The weakest adult dragon in the Bestiary is CR10. So are we expecting the weakest of adult dragons to be the menace in this module?

Enlight_Bystand wrote:

John Doe 207 357 wrote:

I would like to see how this module stand up since a dragon would normally be a major threat and would be a difficult task for starting 1st level players to handle.

They'll be 6-7th level by the end, which would make a CR 9-10 Dragon a good end encounter

The weakest adult dragon in the Bestiary is CR10. So are we expecting the weakest of adult dragons to be the menace in this module?

Does it have to be an adult?

I'm not ready to reveal much more about the adventure, but the dragon the PCs will be facing in the adventure is NOT a pushover.

Further... the adventure is DESIGNED to be one that builds your PCs up to face a dragon. There's more ways to do that than just XP.

Hmm..Maybe there's a dragonslaying sword or something. That trope of running off on a quest first to get the special magic weapon to slay the 'unkillable' beast is one that's not terribly easy to model in D&D, in my experience.

At first blush, I was a bit put off by the announced change. However, taking a step back, most of my favorite modules (regardless of publisher) were a series of modules that provided a longer story arc (Curse of Immortality, Slavelords, etc.), so I think the potential is very high for the modules to take on the traits of module-series that I like so much.

While those are great, your leaving out that in addition to slavelords, they also put out adventures that were NOT a series of modules. Things you can drop into spots if necessary.

Longer adventures might be great. It remains to be seen. I would have liked to see a bit of both myself. Longer ones to get started, but I also liked the shorter ones I can drop into campaigns- a couple that were useful to a city Ptolus style game, another few that you can build up before sending folks out to slumbering Tsar, Or modules like the one with the fey and the carnival that went bloody, Carnival of Tears, that you can drop into a game as your party as traveling from A to B, in a little town along the way.

Its what I really miss about Dungeon magazine.

So the 64 page modules is a bit of a mixed bag.

BPorter wrote:

At first blush, I was a bit put off by the announced change. However, taking a step back, most of my favorite modules (regardless of publisher) were a series of modules that provided a longer story arc (Curse of Immortality, Slavelords, etc.), so I think the potential is very high for the modules to take on the traits of module-series that I like so much.

While those are great, your leaving out that in addition to slavelords, they also put out adventures that were NOT a series of modules. Things you can drop into spots if necessary.

Longer adventures might be great. It remains to be seen. I would have liked to see a bit of both myself. Longer ones to get started, but I also liked the shorter ones I can drop into campaigns- a couple that were useful to a city Ptolus style game, another few that you can build up before sending folks out to slumbering Tsar, Or modules like the one with the fey and the carnival that went bloody, Carnival of Tears, that you can drop into a game as your party as traveling from A to B, in a little town along the way.

Its what I really miss about Dungeon magazine.

So the 64 page modules is a bit of a mixed bag.

I've actually noticed that the PFS Scenarios do a good job of having adventures that fill in the gaps. Plus they are scaleable which is nice. I see them replacing the Adventure Modules at being, well, modules. Check them out. They tend to be good even if you aren't in PFS.

carmachu wrote:

BPorter wrote:

At first blush, I was a bit put off by the announced change. However, taking a step back, most of my favorite modules (regardless of publisher) were a series of modules that provided a longer story arc (Curse of Immortality, Slavelords, etc.), so I think the potential is very high for the modules to take on the traits of module-series that I like so much.

While those are great, your leaving out that in addition to slavelords, they also put out adventures that were NOT a series of modules. Things you can drop into spots if necessary.

Longer adventures might be great. It remains to be seen. I would have liked to see a bit of both myself. Longer ones to get started, but I also liked the shorter ones I can drop into campaigns- a couple that were useful to a city Ptolus style game, another few that you can build up before sending folks out to slumbering Tsar, Or modules like the one with the fey and the carnival that went bloody, Carnival of Tears, that you can drop into a game as your party as traveling from A to B, in a little town along the way.

Its what I really miss about Dungeon magazine.

So the 64 page modules is a bit of a mixed bag.

I've actually noticed that the PFS Scenarios do a good job of having adventures that fill in the gaps. Plus they are scaleable which is nice. I see them replacing the Adventure Modules at being, well, modules. Check them out. They tend to be good even if you aren't in PFS.

Exactly that. PFS is even easier to drop into a campaign than the modules were, because it's so small. With the new format, modules could become better adventures because they wouldn't be quite as starved for space.

I've actually noticed that the PFS Scenarios do a good job of having adventures that fill in the gaps. Plus they are scaleable which is nice. I see them replacing the Adventure Modules at being, well, modules. Check them out. They tend to be good even if you aren't in PFS.

Unfortunately, they don't sell them in print form. Which makes them useless to me. I'm not a PDF person. I like dead tree form. I've got every module they put out, but unless they start publishing PFS scenarios in other then PDF, wont do me any good.

Odraude wrote:

I've actually noticed that the PFS Scenarios do a good job of having adventures that fill in the gaps. Plus they are scaleable which is nice. I see them replacing the Adventure Modules at being, well, modules. Check them out. They tend to be good even if you aren't in PFS.

Unfortunately, they don't sell them in print form. Which makes them useless to me. I'm not a PDF person. I like dead tree form. I've got every module they put out, but unless they start publishing PFS scenarios in other then PDF, wont do me any good.

PDF + print in full color and put in a nice binder = buying print product.

PDF + print in full color and put in a nice binder = buying print product.

No its not. No matter how many times you or others say it, its not the same thing. I have tons of PDF's from my subscription time with piazo that sit unused. No interest in printing my own stuff.

Well, that sounds like a problem no one can really help with.

As for me, I'll take printing it over buying the hard cover any day. Because I'm a broke mother and it really is the same thing except for new book smell. Which is a luxury.

Lord Snow wrote:

PDF + print in full color and put in a nice binder = buying print product.

No its not. No matter how many times you or others say it, its not the same thing. I have tons of PDF's from my subscription time with piazo that sit unused. No interest in printing my own stuff.

I can see why you'd PREFER a print copy rather than printing a PDF yourself, but I'm saying if you prefer shorter modules, your best option now is to do just that, with PFS scenarios. If you'd rather switch to bigger modules than print out the smaller ones... good for you! the longer modules look awesome :D

Is the cover image ever going to be updated?

Is the cover image ever going to be updated?

It will be eventually. ;)

Well, that sounds like a problem no one can really help with.

As for me, I'll take printing it over buying the hard cover any day. Because I'm a broke mother and it really is the same thing except for new book smell. Which is a luxury.

Its not really a problem per say. Its preference really. I understand I'm not the target audience anymore really- even though I had multiple subscriptions from the beginning till last july when I cancelled tem. I have tons of PDF's that really don't get used, somewhere in the neighbood of over 200 from the subscriptions.....and downloaded maybe 6. I really have no use for PDF, nor printing.

Its ok, I have most of the dungeon magazines to draw from plus paizo's and other modules.

Is the cover image ever going to be updated?

The cover is by Lars Grant-West and it is brilliant.

As far as use for PFS ... will the longer format change the payout for playing through a module from 3XP/4PP to a higher level?

I've been running modules for our local PFS Lodge over the last 2 months and have managed to have the modules be complete over an 8.5-10.5 hour window. The longer format will most likely axe these newer modules from consideration as it will require more than a single day commitment.

Odraude wrote:

Well, that sounds like a problem no one can really help with.

As for me, I'll take printing it over buying the hard cover any day. Because I'm a broke mother and it really is the same thing except for new book smell. Which is a luxury.

Its not really a problem per say. Its preference really. I understand I'm not the target audience anymore really- even though I had multiple subscriptions from the beginning till last july when I cancelled tem. I have tons of PDF's that really don't get used, somewhere in the neighbood of over 200 from the subscriptions.....and downloaded maybe 6. I really have no use for PDF, nor printing.

Its ok, I have most of the dungeon magazines to draw from plus paizo's and other modules.

Kinko's could take the files and print them in book quality for you. Just a thought.

The trouble with the PF scenarios is that it's lots of different files - given the copy protection, my printer isnt terribly enthused about working with them.

Personally, I'd love to be able to buy a season in a single file, even if it were just all the PDFs sequentially with some kind of generic cover. I suspect the market for that is close to single figures though. :(

Shalafi2412 wrote:

Is the cover image ever going to be updated?

The cover is by Lars Grant-West and it is brilliant.

Nice to know but even better to see.

Personally, I'd love to be able to buy a season in a single file, even if it were just all the PDFs sequentially with some kind of generic cover. I suspect the market for that is close to single figures though. :(

Pretty sure you can, sir! Go to the link below!

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8wts?Pathfinder-Society-Scenario-Season-3-PDF -Bundle

Except there should be no space between PDF-Bundle

Isnt that a zip file of lots of individual scenarios? What I mean is I'd like to have one continuous PDF file.

Isnt that a zip file of lots of individual scenarios? What I mean is I'd like to have one continuous PDF file.

It is a ZIP file of the individual scenarios, not a continuous PDF file. Having it broken into individual scenarios allows us to update each one individually (if needed).

Shalafi2412 wrote:

Is the cover image ever going to be updated?

It will be eventually. ;)

Here's how it works:

We send stuff to the printer. Within a couple of weeks, the printer generates a proof. We then approve the proof—and this is the first point where things are considered final. Finally, about once a month, we go through and update images for all of the stuff that has been finalized since the last time we updated images.

We just sent this product to the printer, so the other steps should all be happening in the coming weeks.

Steve Geddes wrote:

Isnt that a zip file of lots of individual scenarios? What I mean is I'd like to have one continuous PDF file.

It is a ZIP file of the individual scenarios, not a continuous PDF file. Having it broken into individual scenarios allows us to update each one individually (if needed).

Thanks, Liz. I figured there'd be lots of good reasons. I'll just have to hope my printer goes through a quiet period..

Any chance of a Pathfinder Battles Encounter pack to accompany this set?

That would be INCREDIBLY awesome ... feasible ... don't know ... but AWESOME ... heck yeah!

~Dean

Does the module begin from a town or already on the road? Looking forward to run this and want to get players backgrounds ideas.

But the whole point of the module line is to have LESS content than Adventure Paths.

The bigger they are, the harder they are to integrate into your campaign.

I'd say the modules, even with this latest increase in page count, are still not even close to the adventure paths in terms of content. 64 pages vs. 500+ pages.

While I certainly agree that bigger modules prove more difficult to insert into existing campaigns, one of THE biggest complaints I saw for many modules prior to this increase in page count was that some of them were too short to do the subject matter justice.

So now we have 3 tiers when it comes to Pathfinder modules: Pathfinder Society scenarios, Pathfinder Modules, and the Pathfinder Adventure Paths. So there's something for everyone here, I think.

You mean like we had 3 tiers before? Scenarios, modules and APs?

The modules are just longer now. They were always bigger than scenarios.

You mean like we had 3 tiers before? Scenarios, modules and APs?

The modules are just longer now. They were always bigger than scenarios.

Hehe fair enough. The difference between Pathfinder Society scenarios and the new modules and what they each offer is much clearer now, though, and that was the point I tried (and failed) to make. Pathfinder Society scenarios are one-shots that are easily inserted into existing campaigns, the Pathfinder Modules are now small campaigns in their own right, and the Pathfinder Adventure Paths are career-spanning campaigns.

I think the new format is good, and I can't wait for them.

I'm hoping that the battlemaps in the PDF will be better for use with a VTT.

Does the module begin from a town or already on the road? Looking forward to run this and want to get players backgrounds ideas.

You start in situ, having just arrived at the town of Belhaim.

Ratbane wrote:

Does the module begin from a town or already on the road? Looking forward to run this and want to get players backgrounds ideas.

You start in situ, having just arrived at the town of Belhaim.

In Situ? I thought this was in Taldor!

James Jacobs wrote:

Ratbane wrote:

Does the module begin from a town or already on the road? Looking forward to run this and want to get players backgrounds ideas.

You start in situ, having just arrived at the town of Belhaim.

In Situ? I thought this was in Taldor!

Ha.

I'm also worried that this module will "wussify" dragons. Of course, there's more than one way to defeat a foe than fight them, but if that's how the dragon is defeated...

I'm also worried that this module will "wussify" dragons. Of course, there's more than one way to defeat a foe than fight them, but if that's how the dragon is defeated...

I would count on the author Mike Shel to deliver a satisfying conclusion.

I'm still not clear how the module will link in to PFS play. If it will take 1st level PCs to 6th-7th by the end, will PFS PCs be looking at the same kind of raise in level? Or will the modules be treated like the APs, where only part of the module will be sanctioned for PFS play?

Cyrad wrote:

I'm also worried that this module will "wussify" dragons. Of course, there's more than one way to defeat a foe than fight them, but if that's how the dragon is defeated...

I would count on the author Mike Shel to deliver a satisfying conclusion.

The dragon, an aficionado of Taldan high culture, agrees to cease his depredations if the party can get him season tickets to the Oppara Opera House.

However, getting those tickets is an incredible challenge.

Wussified, indeed.

I'm also worried that this module will "wussify" dragons. Of course, there's more than one way to defeat a foe than fight them, but if that's how the dragon is defeated...

If you bring a 20th level character into the adventure, the dragon will be a chump, yes.

If you play the adventure as written, for a starting group of 1st level characters, the dragon will not feel like a pushover. Trust me.

Jim Groves wrote:

Cyrad wrote:

I'm also worried that this module will "wussify" dragons. Of course, there's more than one way to defeat a foe than fight them, but if that's how the dragon is defeated...

I would count on the author Mike Shel to deliver a satisfying conclusion.

The dragon, an aficionado of Taldan high culture, agrees to cease his depredations if the party can get him season tickets to the Oppara Opera House.

However, getting those tickets is an incredible challenge.

Wussified, indeed.

And then the difficult task of convincing the opera house manager to allow a dragon to attend, and figuring out the logistics of getting a grown dragon good seating.

It's a challenge unlike any you've faced before. :P

Mike Shel wrote:

Jim Groves wrote:

Cyrad wrote:

I'm also worried that this module will "wussify" dragons. Of course, there's more than one way to defeat a foe than fight them, but if that's how the dragon is defeated...

I would count on the author Mike Shel to deliver a satisfying conclusion.

The dragon, an aficionado of Taldan high culture, agrees to cease his depredations if the party can get him season tickets to the Oppara Opera House.

However, getting those tickets is an incredible challenge.

Wussified, indeed.

And then the difficult task of convincing the opera house manager to allow a dragon to attend, and figuring out the logistics of getting a grown dragon good seating.

It's a challenge unlike any you've faced before. :P

I've got say, that would be an awesome adventure.

Mike Shel wrote:

Jim Groves wrote:

Cyrad wrote:

I'm also worried that this module will "wussify" dragons. Of course, there's more than one way to defeat a foe than fight them, but if that's how the dragon is defeated...

I would count on the author Mike Shel to deliver a satisfying conclusion.

The dragon, an aficionado of Taldan high culture, agrees to cease his depredations if the party can get him season tickets to the Oppara Opera House.

However, getting those tickets is an incredible challenge.

Wussified, indeed.

And then the difficult task of convincing the opera house manager to allow a dragon to attend, and figuring out the logistics of getting a grown dragon good seating.

Having a breath weapon means never having to worry about seating issues.