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Paper miniatures....hmmm...
That's an interesting idea. Let's get the books all out first, though I think.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
Paper miniatures....hmmm...
That's an interesting idea. Let's get the books all out first, though I think.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
Makes it easier to come up with set lists, lemme tell you... :D
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Gary,
I wanna say that the impossible happened, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that player is cursed no matter whose dice he uses.
With the gaming convention coming up next month, I wanted to see around how quickly I could go through the prison break part of the game with six characters via a playtest. Turns out, if you've got the right person as the rogue, you can't do it at all unless the GM interferes.
Jack used the masterwork tools on his own manacles and just needed a 12 to succeed because he had a +8 to Disable Device.
First try. Natural 1. Guard wondered if there was a rat.
Next try. Three. Rolled for the guard. Eighteen. Thankfully not the 19 or 20. I gave Jack a Perception check. Vandor's manacles looked a little rusted, and should try for his instead. New DC 18.
Third try, new manacles. Six. Rolled for the guard. Natural 20. Stealth check to hide the veil and tools as the guard checked them out, total of 9. Guard got 19. Figured I'd let them off with the guard just taking away the veil out of jealousy of the PC being visited by Tiadora. Tools stayed.
Changed dice and tried a fourth time. Jack got a nine. Took pity on the PC and gave the guards a -2 because they were conversing about the beauty who'd just been there, and they were being being perverts and smelling the veil. This negated their +2. Natural 20. I let the player off, and started from the start again, but I figured I'd skip #2 since they were more than a little sure the noise was coming from the cell and those particular prisoners. So in turn I had the guards tell the prisoners to knock it off or they were going to knock some heads. It was the only warning.
By this time the other PCs were getting frustrated as well. Finally, I ended up telling the PC to just stop rolling altogether, and take 20. Yes it'd be 20 minutes for that lock, but he could take 10 on the rest of them since the tools gave him +2 and he had a circumstance of +2. However, when it came to the cell door itself, he opted to take 20 again.
Needless to say, if I hadn't stepped in and told him straight out to take 20, there's a good chance they never would have ever gotten out of the cell.
Did you have this problem of bad luck when you were the convention? I mean, I felt really bad for the player and his really bad rolls, but I've known this guy for a very long time, and his rolls always sucked unless he didn't need it. Roll initiative, almost always a natural 20. He'd probably go first, but all of rolls would be terrible from that point on.
I'd like to think I handled it fairly well given the circumstances, but the situation added extra time that they didn't have to get the game finished.
Gary,
I wanna say that the impossible happened, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that player is cursed no matter whose dice he uses.
With the gaming convention coming up next month, I wanted to see around how quickly I could go through the prison break part of the game with six characters via a playtest. Turns out, if you've got the right person as the rogue, you can't do it at all unless the GM interferes.
** spoiler omitted **...
Something similar happened to my players, but they were the ones who came up with the decision to take 20.
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When my player faile,d the rogue got the daggers and sneak attacked the guard when he came in (and got a crit) so they escaped the cell pretty easily! He could have gallot them all killed if he'd missed but oh well.
I'd have questioned that. With you chained up and your hands above your heads, that'd make for quit the difficult stabbing.
arholly,
Sounds like an interesting mix. If you give me a link, I will stop in from time to time.
Regardless, have fun and thanks for supporting "Way of the Wicked".
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
arholly,
I do have a myth-weavers account and as time permits I will visit and check it out! Thanks for the link.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
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He'd already unshackled himself, but failed his roll unshackling someone else.When my player faile,d the rogue got the daggers and sneak attacked the guard when he came in (and got a crit) so they escaped the cell pretty easily! He could have gallot them all killed if he'd missed but oh well.I'd have questioned that. With you chained up and your hands above your heads, that'd make for quit the difficult stabbing.
Ah, I see. Yeah my guy hadn't even pulled that off yet.
Any who play this campaign: Do you use Golarion?
How did you change Mitra? I´m torn between the following decicions:
1. Use either Sarenrae or Iomedae
2. Use Mitra and make him possibly a child of Sarenrae and Abadar
3. Use a small pantheon like The Triad in Forgotten Realms (Tyr, Ilmater, Torm). The people of Talingard call this the Mitran Faith - and it consists of Sarenrae, Iomedae and Abadar. Much like praying to a concept - they idolize the best of these 3 gods. (this option I dislike a little bit so far - I like the flavor when clerics and paladin call out: "Mitra (or whatever god) guide my sword to slay this evildoers!")
Gary already was so nice to answer me on facebook on my ideas, but I would like to hear what you did.
Doug,
It's an interesting idea.
And in an early outline of Knot of Thorns, Branderscar was a bit more traditional prison and the PCs were part of a chain gang that actually was taken to work in the nearby salt mines under guard.
They could organize a prison revolt and so forth. Gain allies. Bribe guards. Choose the right moment to escape and so forth. While it sounds cool, what became clear as I was outlining it, was that it could become the first book. Knot of Thorns would be entirely about escaping from prison.
And I really wanted Balentyne to be the focus of Book One.
So, it got trimmed back even before I began formulating the first draft.
But, you could definitely expand it especially if you were using the slow advancement track.
In this version, the PCs aren't the worst criminals in all of Talingarde. They are merely some of the worst criminals. It turns out they are imprisoned with other equally vile villains. Some are in fact clearly worse. They are simply the ones chosen by Thorn to join his conspiracy.
Blackerly is still there and occassionally uses some of the prison's labor to enrich his own pocket. He effectively sells slave labor to local business men in town. Getting picked for one of his "special details" is probably the best opportunity to escape.
Yes, you can use this to emphasize -- this isn't a campaign about any sort of evil. Oh no. To walk the Way of the Wicked you have to be willing to cooperate and rise above the common psychopath, thug and murderer.
As you say, evil has standards.
Hope that helps,
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
Hi Gary, waaay up thread you mentioned the possibility of a players guide for WotW. I'm prepping to run this soon and a player's guide would be hugely helpful. Anything on the horizon?
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Gary,
Got a question about Asmodeus because the PC who was arrested for doing witchcraft summoning stuff, is getting a little headstrong.
Part of me thinks he's watched Avengers one too many times and is looking to make Asmodeus do things ala Loki did at the beginning of the movie.
My question is, would Asmodeus even consider the idea for even an inkling of a moment? The PC in question does some summoning, and I don't want to just give him a DC check because he'll work towards obtaining the ability to get that without any chance of failure.
Iron Desk,
And its still something we are working on. Right now my focus is on getting the main books done.
I would say the player's section of Book One (pp. 88-93 plus the player's map second page of the PDF) is a pretty solid player's guide all on its own.
I definitely want to do something more elaborate but for now I don't have anything concrete to announce.
Thanks for playing "Way of the Wicked"!
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
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Doug,
Fear not. I save everything. I am a pack rat by nature. Now if only I could convince my wife this is a good thing.
Kevin,
Getting the gods directly involved is a bad idea. First, it disempowers the players. Why do PCs matter if the gods solve everything. Second, if Asmodeus can appear, why can't Mitra? Third, the Lord of Evil is concerned with matters that effect the entire multiverse, not one small nation on an insignificant backwater of a plane.
Further, Asmodean intervention is all over this AP. Tiadora, Dessiter, and more to come. His gifts. His signs (like the sky turning red in Book Three).
Asmodeus notices the PCs. And he trusts them to do what must be done. Do not disappoint your divine master. He doesn't take failure well.
Hope that helps,
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
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Gary,
As for why Mitra doesn't appear, no one can do it? Summoning is rather taboo afterall. Got no real idea actually why one side could and the other couldn't.
I'm not sure the PCs get to be adamant about when the gods or their avatars "cut loose every now and then". That is definitely a decision that should remain with the demesne of the Game Master.
Let me tell you a secret -- the PCs don't want Asmodeus to show up. As soon as he arrives, they are nobodies. The god needs neither their help or their input. They are out of the loop.
Keep that in mind when thinking about avatars and such showing up and I think all will go well.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
Kevin,
How does he intend to summon the Avatar? Because it shouldn't be something as simple as a Planar Binding. If he really wants to do that summoning, require a ritual on the scale of Book II.
Further, he's being really presumptuous in taking it upon himself (against the orders and plans of Asmodeus' high priest no less) and deciding when and where Asmodeus should cut loose. Perhaps he'll get a warning of some kind in a dream or from an NPC. If he knows that he's overstepping his bounds, then maybe he should reap what he's sown.
It might be an idea to ask the player if he really wants to play the campaign. Because he's basically trying to get out of dealing with the mission they've been given.
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Kevin,
How does he intend to summon the Avatar? Because it shouldn't be something as simple as a Planar Binding. If he really wants to do that summoning, require a ritual on the scale of Book II.
Further, he's being really presumptuous in taking it upon himself (against the orders and plans of Asmodeus' high priest no less) and deciding when and where Asmodeus should cut loose. Perhaps he'll get a warning of some kind in a dream or from an NPC. If he knows that he's overstepping his bounds, then maybe he should reap what he's sown.
It might be an idea to ask the player if he really wants to play the campaign. Because he's basically trying to get out of dealing with the mission they've been given.
Oh they all decided to betray Thorn the second they met him. They're grateful and all for the rescue help, but that's about it. They're all more evil than lawful, and borderline chaotic for the neutral characters. As I told Gary in an earlier post, they've already got their own plans for how they're going to do things and there's a chance that we may not even finish the campaign because of it, meaning we'd be doing something else with the same characters, or I just destroy them with characters from Book II.
To the GMs runnimg this: How are you handling PC clerics of gods other than Asmodeus? I've got a player who wants to play a cleric/undead lord. Death is not one of Asmodeus' domains so he worships another god. The Pact of thorns however is basically binding the PC to a rival diety. How do you reconcile that? Or am I just overthinking this and should just hand wave it?
To the GMs runnimg this: How are you handling PC clerics of gods other than Asmodeus? I've got a player who wants to play a cleric/undead lord. Death is not one of Asmodeus' domains so he worships another god. The Pact of thorns however is basically binding the PC to a rival diety. How do you reconcile that? Or am I just overthinking this and should just hand wave it?
I've got an anti-paladin of Zon-Kuthon in my group. The way I played it was Asmodeus and Zon-Kuthon have similar interests in seeing the Talirean government and Church of Mitra fall, so working together is perfectly acceptable. You could easily make this work for any of the NE deities too. The only real tricky ones would be the CE deities, but its VERY inadvisable to let your players anywhere near CE.
Oh they all decided to betray Thorn the second they met him. They're grateful and all for the rescue help, but that's about it. They're all more evil than lawful, and borderline chaotic for the neutral characters. As I told Gary in an earlier post, they've already got their own plans for how they're going to do things and there's a chance that we may not even finish the campaign because of it, meaning we'd be doing something else with the same characters, or I just destroy them with characters from Book II.
I'd be shocked if they hadn't planned to betray Thorn. My point is less about what Thorn would think about them summoning Asmodeus against his wishes as opposed to Asmodeus doing it.
After all, have they proven themselves worthy of standing before Asmodeus? And if they somehow have, how would the god of Contracts react to them breaking the one they have with their patron in such a blatant fashion, and one that basically ruins a perfectly good plan?
Asmodeus doesn't mind betrayal, but he's probably going to be peeved if they try to summon an avatar of him to get out of doing the heavy lifting, all the while knowing that it exposes the hand of Asmodeus in the current troubles far earlier than should happen.
Asmodeus is a god who approves of subtly. What use does he have of lazy servants who seek to pass of their petty duties to a God without any sort of thought for what sort of reaction it will draw from their enemies?
Especially if they can't give point to a loophole that justifies breaking the contract they had with Thorn.
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Tobias,
And it's not a matter of laziness, the PC thinks that Asmodeus might just want stretch out every now and again. He's going to try and get on Asmodeus', forgive the lack of a better word, good side. That way he can try and become a demi-god of Asmodeus, and maybe overthrow him someday if he doesn't get his own plane of hell. He's already figured out a way to have a 50 Int by the end of the game.
IronDesk,
Good advice has already been given.
Here is a little more...
You can handle this one of two ways. If that PC is the only cleric in your party, exchange Asmodeus for a more undead friendly god. Who says the Knot of Thorns has to be followers of Asmodeus? Maybe instead the purges centered around the Lord of Death and it is necromancers who are so viciously hunted. That helps explain why Thorn rose as a lich.
If you want to keep the Knot of Thorns worshipping Asmodeus, then Thorn has started to make alliances with other gods. An alliance between an undead lord and Asmodeus seems perfectly plausible. You would need to tweek the Pact of Thorns a little. But its easy enough to allow fealty to both gods.
Hope this helps,
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
OmegaZ and Gary, good advice, thanks!
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I'm looking for a way to expand the
Anything left on the cutting room floor that I could use? Or did you stop at 4 because more caused the playtesters to chicken out?
I'm hoping to present them a page full of illegible font with a big blank at the bottom and then smack them around the ears with it if they attempt to go too far - not as far as railroading them but
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I'm looking for a way to expand the ** spoiler omitted **I like the idea of them signing something they don't quite understand.
For mine, I just had a "fine print" clause that was so tiny that when it printed, it looked like a longer signing line. I also gave the PCs an extra item (a backpack of holding that linked each others item to one another for convenient use). In it, I stated that anyone who grossly violated the contract would have their gift and all items within the container taken from them.
But looking it over again, um, Gary, is it supposed to say "a perpetual Compact is made between"? Not Contract?
If you want to see a contract with a Devil/Demon watch the Supernatural tv show finale.
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Doug,
There's only one problem with your suggestion...
Kevin,
The PCs will betray Thorn, yes, and (if they are clever) they will do it in a way that does not violate the contract.
This is why Dessiter is in the campaign. He knows a loophole. It's actually right there in the Pact of Thorns in Book #1 if you look closely.
It will be revealed in Book Five.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
Andy,
Thanks for the link. Yes, I am very interested and will try to make some time to go check it out.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
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Doug, I loved your earlier teamwork suggestion; I already told them to research teamwork feats.
I originally wanted to add that bit after their training/testing, but if I instead give it to them upon signing, I can give early adopters an immediate blessing from big A and thus give any hesitant characters extra incentive to sign. it seems better that way.
I like the flavor of your ideas by the way. thanks for sharing.
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Greetings all,
Regarding Thorn's statblock...
Thorn doesn't get a full statblock till Book Five. It's a big statblock that will take up roughly a page and therefore I didn't feel the need to replicate it again and again.
Suffice to say, in Books One-Three, the PCs are far out of their league.
In Book Four, Thorn still outclasses them but a clever, resourceful, lucky party might be able to take him down. Still, the PCs don't actually meet Thorn in Book Four, so its a moot point.
And in Book Five, he's the big bad at the end of the book...a CR 20 unique lich/cleric surrounded by guardians and servants in his fortress in the far north. Taking down Thorn will not be easy.
Fortunately, if the PCs are clever, they'll have help...
Anyways, back to the word mines,
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
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Gary,
As well, if Thorn's the big bad at the end of Book 5, I fear who the big bad at the end of Book 6 is.
Kevin,
** spoiler omitted **
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
I'm assuming that the PCs can "safely" turn on Thorn because of
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Hello everyone.
I've been asked several times if we're going to do a player's guide. We do intend to do something more elaborate eventually. But in the meantime, here is a twelve page PC-friendly player's guide taken largely from the free preview.
By the way, we mostly do updates for this sort of thing on our facebook page. Join us and be kept up to date with all things Wicked.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
My intrepid PbP'ers made it out of the prison... though it was touch and go for a while.
Hot dice for the DM meant that much damage followed as no-one had time to get any armor on. Grumblejack saved the day by taking out Blackerly almost single handedly with a grapple - pin - crush combo. A minor skirmish with some guards in the kitchen and the group got to sack the main building and get armored up (I assumed that the guards figured Blackerly had it under control until the prisoners emerged).
Another fight with guards on patrol at the wall and the leftover drunks from the poker game ended up with another PC and Grumblejack dropped into negatives - but they recovered quickly. I skipped Lashtongue as I was keen to move into the meeting with Thorn... though the devil in the party (a depowered Gaav) managed to attempt to intimidate Tiadora... and rolled a 1 in the process.
Only thing that I really changed was to allow the evil Cleric to turn a negative channel into a single target infernal healing to help smooth out some of the low level issues that arise from not having a positive channeler / spontaneous spellcaster.
Very cool, Mark. Thanks for the update!
Edit:
I just went back and read the bit about Tiadora meeting the lesser devil. That was very well handled and perfectly how I would imagine she would handle such a lower being. Well done.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games