Pathfinder Pawns: Bestiary Box

Will future printings of the beginner box get this same update or are sizes specific to the core rules and won't be part of the basic?

We do not currently have any plans to change the Beginner Box. For starters, adding the bases would increase the cost to the consumer, which is not something we'd like to see happen.

Does this have monsters from just the first Bestiary, or all 3?

Just the first Bestiary. We're giving you guys the opportunity to prove to use that it makes sense to do Bestiary 2 and Bestiary 3.

Brian Darnell wrote:

Will future printings of the beginner box get this same update or are sizes specific to the core rules and won't be part of the basic?

We do not currently have any plans to change the Beginner Box. For starters, adding the bases would increase the cost to the consumer, which is not something we'd like to see happen.

What if you made the cost one of choice? Instead of adding more bases to the box, sell a bag of them on the site so that those who want more bases can buy them. Those that are fine with what they have don't have to pay more.

Whilst I think the initiative is great for players, giving them an alternative to metal/plastic minis, the end product (shown pawns) appear very bland in appearance.

The stark white background in my opinion doesn't work and pales in comparison to pawns produced for other RPG's such as FFG's Warhammer 3rd ed. which have fantastic background art.

On the whole I think you guys do a great job with graphic layout throughout the Pathfinder range of books but I think these have missed the mark by a bit.

Just a personal opinion mind you :)

Whilst I think the initiative is great for players, giving them an alternative to metal/plastic minis, the end product (shown pawns) appear very bland in appearance.

The stark white background in my opinion doesn't work and pales in comparison to pawns produced for other RPG's such as FFG's Warhammer 3rd ed. which have fantastic background art.

On the whole I think you guys do a great job with graphic layout throughout the Pathfinder range of books but I think these have missed the mark by a bit.

Just a personal opinion mind you :)

I'd have said the same thing if I hadn't been impressed by the pawns in the Beginner Box

There's a big difference between "looks pretty" and "looks useful".

I don't understand where you are headed with that comment Gorbacz.

There is no difference between the "usefulness" of either of the pawns mentioned in my previous post, they both fulfill their intended role.

My observations were that the aesthetics of one was more appealing (a lot) than the other.

I understand that cost issues arise due to artist's but also believe that impressive art goes a long way in the marketing of these products.

This is not a snipe at the artists involved either as the actual monsters are well portrayed but more a design layout issue, electing to go for the stark plain background instead of including environmental aspects.

My personal opinion is that they missed the mark with what could have been a real winner as I know for sure personally I would have purchased them in an instant if they were of the quality of the previous mentioned product.

These don't inspire me to buy them at all which is a shame.

If I want pawns, I want to be able to tell them apart from a distance. Fantastic background art makes it harder.

Human memory is a memory of shapes and contours, if you have pictures on white background, your identify them far easier.

ALSO, all of the bestiary images are sans background, so if you had an artist add it to them, the cost would skyrocket.

A comparison if you will to explain my point (only ones I could quickly find) http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1648

These are more static posed and are character class pawns but they give the idea.

*shrug* Personally, I prefer the full-body picture and a neutral background. No point having mountains or a castle or trees behind a monster when you could be encountering the creatures in a dungeon or the wilderness or a city street. The more "generic" they are, the more situations they're useful in.

Plus, the price point of these is based on reusing the art out of the Bestiary. If you commission new art, the price for the final product is going to go up.

I prefer the white backgrounds, they are much quicker to recognize "At a glance"

The background art adds a certain aesthetic that lifts these pawns up from copy/paste cutouts to the next level.

Whilst there maybe a very minor advantage with the white background in regards to easy identification realistically if you cant tell at a glance what pawn is what, even with background art, you need to move closer to the table!

My view is that these could have been a show piece for the product line further enhancing an already strong core.

If they were done right I would have had no issue paying double the listed price for a full set of creature pawns but as it is they are an unappealing offering for mine.

Ulmaxes wrote:

BOSS.

Question: will there only be one of each? I understand there's already a TON packed in here, and I'm still going to buy it regardless.

Certain very common creatures will get multiple pawns.

Ulmaxes wrote:

Also: Dragons. Will there be one for each type and each size, or one per type? If the latter, will they all be the same size, or will you draw the sizes out across the types in order to hit all the bases?

The current plan is to have one dragon of each type of each size, which means there are a LOAD of dragons in this set.

This is also true of elementals going up to Huge.

Ohhhh nooooo!!!! So that's like a dozen dragons and elementals eliminating the cool unique creatures such as Winter Wolves and others much better creatures... too bad :(

24 + 30 = 54
54 - 14 (as I don't mind one of each species of dragons and elemental) = 40

So 40 creatures will be eliminated for the cause of more dragons and more elementals...

Or does more dragons and elementals go under the rule of extra of the same race? So they don't count with the 250 UNIQUE creatures that are in the book, I don't count bigger and smaller elementals as different creatures, just resized ones that are not really nessesairy for myself as I really only like the Large elementals and the Ancient Dragons. (of course its my own opinion, but my own opinion must be there to buy a product, I can't be happy because others really enjoy hundreds of one creature type that I won't enjoy)

The current plan is to have one dragon of each type of each size, which means there are a LOAD of dragons in this set.

This is also true of elementals going up to Huge.

Is there going to be different art for each size? Because if not, why bother? You could just use one pawn, and different bases for different sizes.

Erik Mona wrote:

The current plan is to have one dragon of each type of each size, which means there are a LOAD of dragons in this set.

This is also true of elementals going up to Huge.

Is there going to be different art for each size? Because if not, why bother? You could just use one pawn, and different bases for different sizes.

Is there really a point even with different art? How often are you going to run an encounter with multiple dragons of different size. I'd think it better to put a few dragons of each color (2-3) and let the GM define the size with the choice of base. More room for other monsters that way.

Something else to consider : for the multiple monsters (like goblins), if it is too expensive to have different art for each instance of the multiple, could we have a different coloured spot on each? Actually, regardless of the different art, coloured spots on multiples would probably still be useful.

"I'm going to attack the goblin with the red spot with my axe!"

Also, please keep the white background. Art would just add visual noise and detract from the monster art.

BigWeather wrote:

Yeah, I'm so on-board. Thanks Paizo! Also, will anything be done for facing this time around, like a little dot or something at the bottom of the side that is the front?

The Pathfinder RPG doesn't use facing, so we probably will not do anything elaborate to indicate this. It's very likely that the pawns themselves will have a "front" and a "back" distinguished by which side has the creature's name and which side has the collector number and copyright statement, but all of this is meant to be covered by the base. If it's really important to you, you could simply not push the pawn all the way into the base, so players can read its name and know which way is which. The sample image above actually shows the pawns like this. They still stand up just fine this way.

That's a good enough solution for me when using other rules systems with the pawns. Thanks!

For those worried about not having enough of certain monster types, simply putting one of these with some other type of representation (such as these game pawns) would be an easy solution. I already have a good number of the game pawns, plan on getting a fair number of the pre-painted minis, and will also get this box as well. After all, you can never have too many monsters!

Now bring on the Bestiary 2 Box, the Bestiary 3 Box, and the extremely large Tome of Horrors Complete Box!

The Bestiary Box is not part of any subscription, but Pathfinder Roleplaying Game subscribers who preorder this boxed set will receive a free PDF edition of this product when the boxed edition ships. (Note that you will need to have an active RPG subscription at the time the Bestiary Box ships in order to receive the PDF for

I can't help but feel that was put in for folks like me who unsubscribed and resubscribed around the Beginner box due to the duty issues internationally. I can't help but wonder if because this isn't a game if I can avoid duty

For those who want a dot to signify "front" or to distinguish between different pawns, just grab some markers, crayons, stickers, etc. to make each one different. It wouldn't take that much time and would be very easy.

For those who want a dot to signify "front" or to distinguish between different pawns, just grab some markers, crayons, stickers, etc. to make each one different. It wouldn't take that much time and would be very easy.

The way Wizards handled it by putting a small number on common tokens was clean and nice. It could be easily done by a GM as you suggested above, but built in to the product looks better.

Don't get me wrong, I would actually like an army of Goblins, so 10 goblin pawns are good for me, I just don't like 40 spaces for cool monsters being elminated by boring dragon models for smaller and larger variants, and same with Elementals... If Paizo tells me there are 250 DIFFERENT creatures in the box I want 250 different creatuers, big and small elementals with the same art aren't different creaturs for me, nor are dragons with bigger scale-pictures. White Dragon is a white dragon, 4 or 3 white dragons (whatever the size) should be counted as a dubble creature, not as seperate creatures that spoil the 250 unique creatures.

Don't get me wrong, I would actually like an army of Goblins, so 10 goblin pawns are good for me, I just don't like 40 spaces for cool monsters being elminated by boring dragon models for smaller and larger variants, and same with Elementals... If Paizo tells me there are 250 DIFFERENT creatures in the box I want 250 different creatuers, big and small elementals with the same art aren't different creaturs for me, nor are dragons with bigger scale-pictures. White Dragon is a white dragon, 4 or 3 white dragons (whatever the size) should be counted as a dubble creature, not as seperate creatures that spoil the 250 unique creatures.

Actually it says there is more than 300 pawns in the box and 250 unique creatures. So it sounds like that 50+ difference is the duplicates.

Well I hope so, but it says 250 distinct creature images, images of the bigger and smaller white dragon can vary (which I won't like) and the images of the bigger and smaller elementals can vary aswel, that would be sweet for many, but a fire elemental is a fire elemental for me, so 6 fire elementals are sweet and all, but if I loose Winter Wolves, Ettins and Ettercaps because of those 6 fire elementals I would be sad.

But you are probably right, they are counted as the 50+ duplicate creatures. (it would make more sense to me, as again, a fire elemental huge or small is still a fire elemental and not an unique other creature.)

I just hope we get everything for once, not exceptions that are left out.
I never collect the mini-figures because the more unknown creatures never get their mini's, its always the same goblins, minotaurs, dragons, if lucky succubi and gargoyle that get the mini figures...
I hope this box is different and also includes the rare-creature, but I already see they include the Sea Hag, so my hopes are rather high on this!

I hope there's an Invisible Stalker pawn, using the artwork from 2E MM.

Lol you can always create an army of Invisible Stalkers by only using the empty plastic bases of course, but I rather liked the Paizo Invisible Stalker, best art ever for that creature!

I hope there's an Invisible Stalker pawn, using the artwork from 2E MM

I believe WOTC hold the copyright for this artwork. No one can publish blank space without paying them royalities.

Elcian

That why you use a clear plastic stick figure mini stuck in a base.

I can only assume that there won't be enough bases for all the creatures at once? seems like 300+ bases would take quite a bit of packaging. How many bases are provided?

I can only assume that there won't be enough bases for all the creatures at once? seems like 300+ bases would take quite a bit of packaging. How many bases are provided?

That's a very good question. I hope that Paizo offers up a bundle of bases that can be bought from their store.

Paizo do sell the Fantasy Flight stands, used in Talisman and other games.
You'd need a staff member to say if these are the right fit for these standups.

Games Workshop do a similar kind of product, on a black round base (used in their version of Cosmic Encounter, et al), but I've not seen them bagged separately, nor are they on Paizo store.

(...)We're giving you guys the opportunity to prove to use that it makes sense to do Bestiary 2 and Bestiary 3.

No, you're not; otherwise we would already have a chance to preorder boxes 2 and 3 ;)

Anyway - this is soooo cool! Thanx for listening to us again. This is perfect to bring many RPG- groups game to a new level!

Edit: You'll never need 300 bases. 20 or 30 should be all you need.

Also, there's an error in the current image, which shows Small, Medium and Large pawns on square bases that are about 3/4" wide. In the actual product, Small and Medium pawns will have 1"-round bases, Large pawns will have 2"-round bases, and Huge pawns will have 3"-round bases.

We'll try to get the image adjusted accordingly next week.

Image has been updated.

I can't help but wonder if because this isn't a game if I can avoid duty

The customs declaration for this product will list it as "Toys/Figures."

Galnörag wrote:

I can't help but wonder if because this isn't a game if I can avoid duty

The customs declaration for this product will list it as "Toys/Figures."

CRAP.

Will this go into regular distribution? I'll have to grab it off some other source, else customs/VAT will kill me.

Optimal product!

Will this go into regular distribution?

I believe that is the plan, yes.

Well I hope so, but it says 250 distinct creature images, images of the bigger and smaller white dragon can vary (which I won't like) and the images of the bigger and smaller elementals can vary aswel, that would be sweet for many, but a fire elemental is a fire elemental for me, so 6 fire elementals are sweet and all, but if I loose Winter Wolves, Ettins and Ettercaps because of those 6 fire elementals I would be sad.

But you are probably right, they are counted as the 50+ duplicate creatures. (it would make more sense to me, as again, a fire elemental huge or small is still a fire elemental and not an unique other creature.)

I just hope we get everything for once, not exceptions that are left out.
I never collect the mini-figures because the more unknown creatures never get their mini's, its always the same goblins, minotaurs, dragons, if lucky succubi and gargoyle that get the mini figures...
I hope this box is different and also includes the rare-creature, but I already see they include the Sea Hag, so my hopes are rather high on this!

The good news is that they don't need 12 different pawns for each dragon type. They should only need 3-4 different ones. The same for elementals. They don't need to fill all the elementals for all types, only the different sizes for each type. There are 6 different creatures for each elemental but they range from Small to Huge. They may want to have a different one for the Elders, but it may not be necessary either. There isn't a separate description for the Elders.

Ohhhh nooooo!!!! So that's like a dozen dragons and elementals eliminating the cool unique creatures such as Winter Wolves and others much better creatures... too bad :(

Gargantuan and bigger pawns are just not feasible.

It's even worse as there are also the metallic dragons which I really don't care for so that means there are 30 dragons in the box... as with elementals there are: 24

Actually the current plan cuts all of the Huge metallic dragons, figuring that they aren't used as often. We will get to them eventually in later sets, I hope, but certain sacrifices had to be made to keep everything on a reasonable number of sheets.

54 - 14 (as I don't mind one of each species of dragons and elemental) = 40

I think you're underselling the play value of multiple sizes of elementals. They are frequent summoning fodder, and given their neutral alignment they are generally more versatile than, say, a good dragon.

So 40 creatures will be eliminated for the cause of more dragons and more elementals...

It's so much more complicated than this when you figure in different sizes, how many of various sizes fit on sheets, how many metal dies must be created for each sheet configuration, etc. It's like a giant, giant algebra problem. If I wasn't a gamer, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it.

I don't count bigger and smaller elementals as different creatures, just resized ones that are not really nessesairy for myself as I really only like the Large elementals and the Ancient Dragons. (of course its my own opinion, but my own opinion must be there to buy a product, I can't be happy because others really enjoy hundreds of one creature type that I won't enjoy)

The thing is, the Box needs to serve the needs of more than just you, or more than just me. I don't generally use dragons in my campaigns (though you wouldn't know it from last week's game), but it would be lame to deny them to everyone else based on my personal preferences. I'm trying to make the mix work the best for everyone, and I'm confident that you'll be pleased with the final product.

Is there going to be different art for each size? Because if not, why bother? You could just use one pawn, and different bases for different sizes.

Yes, of course. This product struck me as the perfect opportunity to order up art for all of the various sizes of dragons and elementals, which will come in handy for art reference and miniature-production purposes in the future.

We're also going to replace a few pieces of art here and there that we think we could do better today than we could three years ago.

Cool to hear Erik. Now I want full sizes of all the new art in the blog. :)

Is there really a point even with different art? How often are you going to run an encounter with multiple dragons of different size.

The Box has more than 300 pawns in it. It's not about what you might need in a single encounter, but what you might need during your entire Pathfinder "career". You might not need a Large red dragon for next week's session, but how about one next year? How about if you're playing an adventure that calls for one?

I'd think it better to put a few dragons of each color (2-3) and let the GM define the size with the choice of base. More room for other monsters that way.

There are a few dragons of each color. Generally speaking, I think you get two of different sizes and ages of the good dragons, and three of most of the evil ones. (In any event, the box contains no Gargantuan dragons, or Gargantuan anything.)

Something else to consider : for the multiple monsters (like goblins), if it is too expensive to have different art for each instance of the multiple, could we have a different coloured spot on each? Actually, regardless of the different art, coloured spots on multiples would probably still be useful.

We're currently trying to figure out the best approach here. I'm of the opinion that the multiples should probably have the same art, and I'm definitely of the opinion that the "collector number" should have some kind of alphabetical designation as well as numeric like all the singletons, but you're right in that there should be some way for the players to differentiate. I'm thinking about it.

Also, please keep the white background. Art would just add visual noise and detract from the monster art.

No problem here. I like the white backgrounds, because it is less distracting and it makes it easier to imagine the monsters in a variety of environments.

Don't get me wrong, I would actually like an army of Goblins, so 10 goblin pawns are good for me, I just don't like 40 spaces for cool monsters being elminated by boring dragon models for smaller and larger variants, and same with Elementals... If Paizo tells me there are 250 DIFFERENT creatures in the box I want 250 different creatuers, big and small elementals with the same art aren't different creaturs for me, nor are dragons with bigger scale-pictures. White Dragon is a white dragon, 4 or 3 white dragons (whatever the size) should be counted as a dubble creature, not as seperate creatures that spoil the 250 unique creatures.

If the creature doesn't have a stat block in the Bestiary, it doesn't get a pawn. For example, if the age category chart says there is a Small red dragon, but the red dragon spread only gives Large, Huge and Gargantuan stat blocks, there's definitely not a Small red dragon pawn. Furthermore, there is not a Gargantuan red dragon pawn, because there are no Gargantuan pawns in the Box. There are, therefore, TWO red dragon pawns in the Box, one Large and one Huge, both with different art.

We are not "scaling" pictures. The "young red dragon," for example, will be the right size, and it will look younger than the Huge one, which will be the art from the Bestiary.

There are a lot of dragons in the box, but there are fewer than a lot of people seem to fear.

I can only assume that there won't be enough bases for all the creatures at once? seems like 300+ bases would take quite a bit of packaging. How many bases are provided?

We're still zeroing in on the exact number, but my guess is that it will contain a bag of 20 Small/Medium bases exactly like the one in the Beginner Box, and then some smaller number of Large and Huge bases. I'll let people know as soon as I know.

Chernobyl wrote:

I can only assume that there won't be enough bases for all the creatures at once? seems like 300+ bases would take quite a bit of packaging. How many bases are provided?

That's a very good question. I hope that Paizo offers up a bundle of bases that can be bought from their store.

We're also looking into this, and hope to be able to offer additional bases. I'm also going to look into multi-colored bases, as that sort of thing could come in very handy for GMs for all kinds of reasons.

I think this is spectacular...as is. Thank you very much. Too bad so many people can't just stick with "thank you Paizo" instead of "it would've been so much cooler if you'd personalized it just for me."

C'mon folks. Give 'em a break.

Love you guys at Paizo. Keep doing what you are doing.

I'm really excited these are perfect for my needs and will complement my paper minis collection well :-)

I ordered the Fantasy Flight Plastic Stands and I can use them with the Beginner Box pawns with no problem. Honestly they work a bit better because they'e just a tad bigger and they are easier to get on and off. But not so much that they will fall off.

And you only need as many stands as the maximum number of creatures in one area. So for example in the beginner box adventure, you only need five-six stands to run the game.

Me- A W E S O M E ! ! !

My wallet- Stop! You're killing me!

Sincubus wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I would actually like an army of Goblins, so 10 goblin pawns are good for me, I just don't like 40 spaces for cool monsters being elminated by boring dragon models for smaller and larger variants, and same with Elementals... If Paizo tells me there are 250 DIFFERENT creatures in the box I want 250 different creatuers, big and small elementals with the same art aren't different creaturs for me, nor are dragons with bigger scale-pictures. White Dragon is a white dragon, 4 or 3 white dragons (whatever the size) should be counted as a dubble creature, not as seperate creatures that spoil the 250 unique creatures.

If the creature doesn't have a stat block in the Bestiary, it doesn't get a pawn. For example, if the age category chart says there is a Small red dragon, but the red dragon spread only gives Large, Huge and Gargantuan stat blocks, there's definitely not a Small red dragon pawn. Furthermore, there is not a Gargantuan red dragon pawn, because there are no Gargantuan pawns in the Box. There are, therefore, TWO red dragon pawns in the Box, one Large and one Huge, both with different art.

We are not "scaling" pictures. The "young red dragon," for example, will be the right size, and it will look younger than the Huge one, which will be the art from the Bestiary.

There are a lot of dragons in the box, but there are fewer than a lot of people seem to fear.

Cool, thanks for the reply!!

And if some art changed from the book than I have a few hopes up for artwork that is changed, while most of the artwork is beautiful some of them are rather out of place: (all basted on personal preferences of course, but I always love to discuss things and to type things out)

- Marilith's cover-art is much better than her Sinead-o-connor look in the book itself, I always pictured Marilith to be a long-haired beauty waste-up.

- I don't really like the art for Hezrou, probably because I've seen a lot better art for the creature around Deviantart & D&D books, while its mostly the other way around, mostly I like the bestiary arts better than the D&D books art, Hezrou is one of the exceptions.

- Barghest could be better and more scary.

- While I like the actual artwork, I don't like the idea of having an all greek-centaur, I rather see a more druid-centaur around, but that is nothing against the artwork.

- I don't like the chimera artwork, it looks rather unfinished.

- While not bad, i've seen much better pictures of the Balor, and for one of the more powerful creatures in the book should come one of the best artworks.

- Gelugon should think about its weight, he's grown too fat, maybe giving some of his fat to the doppelganger might work ;)

- I don't like the copper dragons color, I'd think a more reddish/brownish colour is better, this is much like the gold dragon.

- I've been thinking about the elementals and different forms for the sizes would be cool, such as a small water elemental being a fish, a larger version being a nereid-like creature, a yet larger one being a shark and the largest being a tidal wave form. That would make the elementals cool and different.

- Something in the Griffon seems strange, can't name what tho...

- I never liked the 10.000 kinds of Mephits, so i'm probably partial in the matter, I rather see one Mephit that can absorb elemental power into its body so that it turns into the element it touches, much like the zorbo but only with elements. The artwork for the Mephits didn't really make my opinion about them better tho, so they are on the list.

- Mummy, again a personal matter, I rather see non-humanoid mummies than humanoid ones, I know that goes agains their mythology, but sometimes there are too many humanoids in one group, mummies would in my opinion be better off as winged-monster undead much like skirrs or crawling apocalypses, there are enough other humanoid undead already. But the artwork is rather good on this one so no complaint about that.

- Nightmares are one of my favorite creatures so that's probably why I don't really like the artwork for this one or look at it with more critic eye.

- Phoenix is Gargantuan and probably not in the box anyway.

- Don't like the Roc, Xorn and Stirge Art.

All others are beautiful, cool or perfect.
Solar, Glabrezu, Rust Monster, Hamatula, Megalodon, Vegepygmy, Sea Hag, Hydra, Manticore, Mimic, Giant Frilled Lizard, Invisible Stalker, Giant Centipede, Aboleth and Erinyes are STUNNING, they should NEVER be changed as they are perfect beyond perfect in artwork.

While the idea of a bestiary box is not that bad I for my part only use the paper flats from OneMonk.

http://onemonk.com/

These minis are perfect for D&D/rpg combat. IMO he has the most experience in the industry in producing them. They are beautiful, simple and easy recognizeable from a distance of 50-100cm. I agree with Gorbacz that the figures as shown in the paizo pics are too complicated.