Pathfinder Battles Ongoing Case Subscription

For RotRL will the premiums be available to those who purchase a case regardless if it is through a subscription? Or will a subscription be required prior to that release to gain access to the sets premium(s)?

I can go into some more detail on that, but please recognize that if you choose to read this next bit, you need to really read carefully, as it's kind of complicated; if you just skim it, it'll probably confuse you more than anything.

** spoiler omitted **...

Thanks for the info, Vic!

Now, I have heard WizKids sometimes releases more than one premium mini with their sets. If that happens with Pathfinder Battles, and let's say it is two premium minis released with the set, if you have two cases chosen for your subscription (both premium cases), would you get one of each premium mini?

Have they released the scale of the minis yet? are they Heroclic scale, or are they closer to the scale of the old D&d line and Reaper's metal mini line?

The bases are 1” scale (for medium size). So along the same lines of the D&D minis.

Have they released the scale of the minis yet? are they Heroclic scale, or are they closer to the scale of the old D&d line and Reaper's metal mini line?

As Hobbun said, they are on 1" bases, and not the slightly larger heroclix ones. I thought I saw somewhere that they would be about equal 28mm models, but they will likely vary in exact scale depending on the artist.

For RotRL will the premiums be available to those who purchase a case regardless if it is through a subscription? Or will a subscription be required prior to that release to gain access to the sets premium(s)?

I can't confirm details about RotR specifically yet, but I can tell you that whenever WizKids offers case premiums, we'll pass them on to people who place individual preorders by the accompanying deadline, as well as to Pathfinder Battles subscribers.

Now, I have heard WizKids sometimes releases more than one premium mini with their sets. If that happens with Pathfinder Battles, and let's say it is two premium minis released with the set, if you have two cases chosen for your subscription (both premium cases), would you get one of each premium mini?

If there were two different case premiums, and you were subscribed for two cases with two premiums, you would get one of each premium.

I'd love to have the dragon, but I can't afford an entire case this month. Here's hoping there ends up being extra dragons (unlikely but possible)! ^_^

In the meantime, I'll probably buy a brick from my FLGS to support them.

Hobbun wrote:

Now, I have heard WizKids sometimes releases more than one premium mini with their sets. If that happens with Pathfinder Battles, and let's say it is two premium minis released with the set, if you have two cases chosen for your subscription (both premium cases), would you get one of each premium mini?

If there were two different case premiums, and you were subscribed for two cases with two premiums, you would get one of each premium.

Does that mean, with one subscription, you would get to choose which premium you wanted to get but couldnt purchase both with the one subscription?

Vic Wertz wrote:

Hobbun wrote:

Now, I have heard WizKids sometimes releases more than one premium mini with their sets. If that happens with Pathfinder Battles, and let's say it is two premium minis released with the set, if you have two cases chosen for your subscription (both premium cases), would you get one of each premium mini?

If there were two different case premiums, and you were subscribed for two cases with two premiums, you would get one of each premium.

Does that mean, with one subscription, you would get to choose which premium you wanted to get but couldnt purchase both with the one subscription?

Argh, edited for reading incorrectly.

Vic pretty much answered your question on being able to choose (which you can't). But as for getting both premiums for one subscription, sure. As long as you had the same amount corresponding premium cases under that subscription.

Vic Wertz wrote:

Hobbun wrote:

Now, I have heard WizKids sometimes releases more than one premium mini with their sets. If that happens with Pathfinder Battles, and let's say it is two premium minis released with the set, if you have two cases chosen for your subscription (both premium cases), would you get one of each premium mini?

If there were two different case premiums, and you were subscribed for two cases with two premiums, you would get one of each premium.

Does that mean, with one subscription, you would get to choose which premium you wanted to get but couldnt purchase both with the one subscription?

Nope. If there were multiples, and you didn't order a corresponding number of cases, we'd have to randomly select one for you. Presumably, WizKids would be producing them in equal quantities, and if we allowed people to choose one, that would probably result in one being more popular than another, and that would compromise our ability to actually deliver the more popular one. So, in order to guarantee that we can deliver them, selecting them for you is the only fair way. (And should you order *more* than the corresponding number of cases, we'll get you one of each and then select duplicates randomly.)

I'd love to have the dragon, but I can't afford an entire case this month. Here's hoping there ends up being extra dragons (unlikely but possible)! ^_^

In the meantime, I'll probably buy a brick from my FLGS to support them.

Just a reminder that while you have to preorder before October 1 (or subscribe) to guarantee your ability to buy the black dragon, we won't actually charge your card until the case and dragon ship in December.

Steve Geddes wrote:

Does that mean, with one subscription, you would get to choose which premium you wanted to get but couldnt purchase both with the one subscription?

Nope. If there were multiples, and you didn't order a corresponding number of cases, we'd have to randomly select one for you. Presumably, WizKids would be producing them in equal quantities, and if we allowed people to choose one, that would probably result in one being more popular than another, and that would compromise our ability to actually deliver the more popular one. So, in order to guarantee that we can deliver them, selecting them for you is the only fair way. (And should you order *more* than the corresponding number of cases, we'll get you one of each and then select duplicates randomly.)

Thanks - that all seems very reasonable. I didnt know if there was some choice at the retailer end of things.

Nope. If there were multiples, and you didn't order a corresponding number of cases, we'd have to randomly select one for you.

That said, I suspect it's really early to get all worried over this. I'm reading the implications of what all you've been writing and what's the FAQs and whatnot and I'm rather mellow right now.

The first Pathfinder Battles has 40 molds and a case will be around 80 minis, usually accounting for (at least) one of each mold. One premium.

The RotR set will be 60 molds plus premiums. It's entirely possible that WizKids will decide for that release that a case contains only roughly 60 minis and that two cases (roughly 120 minis) will (usually) result in (at least) one of each mold. If there were two premiums, those of us shooting for full sets would be increasing our order to two cases already. Of course, containing fewer minis such a case would likely be cheaper as well.

All I'm saying is that I get it that future distribution sizes, number of premiums, number of cases required to approximately assure a full set will all vary. It's way, way too early to worry about this stuff.

I don't think any of who have asked are 'worried' about it. It was just something we had thought of and wondered how Paizo would handle it, when, or if, the situation came up.

But no one is concerned or worried by any means.

I'd love to have the dragon, but I can't afford an entire case this month. Here's hoping there ends up being extra dragons (unlikely but possible)! ^_^

In the meantime, I'll probably buy a brick from my FLGS to support them.

Just remember, if you preorder a brick from them, then they are probably going to buy the rest of the case for their shelves. That case will come with a promo-dragon with no ones name on it. You can talk to your FLGS about buying it off him when you pre-order.

[ I will note that these cases may not be as big as you think, though... WizKids tells us the Heroes & Monsters case will be 13.5 x 12.5 x 8.5 in, and will weigh about 4.5 pounds.

WHAT ??? 60$ Shipping to France for such a small case. US posts are rippers I'm telling ya ;o)

I live in Everett Washington, is there any way for me just to pick up the Case myself to forgo shipping costs sense I live close enough?

I live in Everett Washington, is there any way for me just to pick up the Case myself to forgo shipping costs sense I live close enough?

Unfortunately we aren't able allow for order pick ups. We aren't zoned for selling things directly nor do we have the manpower to handle these types of requests.

Vic Wertz wrote:

[ I will note that these cases may not be as big as you think, though... WizKids tells us the Heroes & Monsters case will be 13.5 x 12.5 x 8.5 in, and will weigh about 4.5 pounds.

WHAT ??? 60$ Shipping to France for such a small case. US posts are rippers I'm telling ya ;o)

Nah, they just hate the French it seems. ;-). The system tells me that shipping for the case itself will be something like 50 (minus 10 for orders over 100, so it's actually just 40), and we're right next to you.

When will information on the Encounter Packs become available?

You can preorder the premium case for 215$ on other sites, with free shipping. Just a FYI for the smart shopper.

You can preorder the premium case for 215$ on other sites, with free shipping. Just a FYI for the smart shopper.

Yea but they require you to pay now instead of later. So in effect your paying more than $215 in terms of them having your money now when I can be using it for something else.

So the $233 I am paying here is fine (with the AP subscription discount.)

EDIT: SOrry the $236 with the dragon.

You can preorder the premium case for 215$ on other sites, with free shipping. Just a FYI for the smart shopper.

Does that factor in the black dragon?

You can preorder the premium case for 215$ on other sites, with free shipping. Just a FYI for the smart shopper.

Not entirely true. They only give you free shipping when you're within the US.

I asked that one site about the shipping price, but they told me I had to make an account with them to look it up myself. So Paizo will get my money.

Darin Lawson wrote:

You can preorder the premium case for 215$ on other sites, with free shipping. Just a FYI for the smart shopper.

Does that factor in the black dragon?

Yes. It's 200 without the dragon.

I was just curious about the scale of these miniatures. Im assuming they will fit in the 1" grid of course. But i was wondering how they would look alongside D&D miniatures. I have looked online and on this site and havent really seen any information about that.

What I don't understand is the cost. On Paizo a case is going to cost me $275 and then give me the option to buy the black dragon at 75% discount. I see references above, but at least one site is offering both the black dragon and the case for $204 total after shipping. I understand the pay now vs pay later argument but since I don't have the AP subscription it really is a big difference in price.

What I don't understand is the cost. On Paizo a case is going to cost me $275 and then give me the option to buy the black dragon at 75% discount. I see references above, but at least one site is offering both the black dragon and the case for $204 total after shipping. I understand the pay now vs pay later argument but since I don't have the AP subscription it really is a big difference in price.

After the discount, shipped form Paizo will cost me <250. Not sure where your shipping to in order to get 275. Are you including the 20% discount for subscribing?

Different companies require different proffit margins. Bulk shipping companies that move a lot of goods can charge lower prices than smaller opperations. Also, Paizo like does not want to undercut local game stores and such, which have even higher markups because of proffit margins and who already complain about having to compete with them for their products.

Standard markup for a game's MSRP is 100% (a $20 game costs the store $10). Many places will offer it at up to 20% off that, but they are then running close to their costs and are not making much proffit.

mrbobvilla wrote:

What I don't understand is the cost. On Paizo a case is going to cost me $275 and then give me the option to buy the black dragon at 75% discount. I see references above, but at least one site is offering both the black dragon and the case for $204 total after shipping. I understand the pay now vs pay later argument but since I don't have the AP subscription it really is a big difference in price.

After the discount, shipped form Paizo will cost me <250. Not sure where your shipping to in order to get 275. Are you including the 20% discount for subscribing?

Different companies require different proffit margins. Bulk shipping companies that move a lot of goods can charge lower prices than smaller opperations. Also, Paizo like does not want to undercut local game stores and such, which have even higher markups because of proffit margins and who already complain about having to compete with them for their products.

Standard markup for a game's MSRP is 100% (a $20 game costs the store $10). Many places will offer it at up to 20% off that, but they are then running close to their costs and are not making much proffit.

You don't get 20% off for subscribing to the cases. The 20% is for the encounter packs one time thing, then also get 20% off for loose minis when Pazio busts cases open. You have to have a AP subscription to get 15% off.

What I don't understand is the cost. On Paizo a case is going to cost me $275 and then give me the option to buy the black dragon at 75% discount. I see references above, but at least one site is offering both the black dragon and the case for $204 total after shipping. I understand the pay now vs pay later argument but since I don't have the AP subscription it really is a big difference in price.

I have heard (though not from Paizo directly) that, as a general rule, they do not undercut game stores when it comes to their own products. That is, although they could make decent profit by selling their APs, sourcebooks and so forth at considerably below the recommended retail price, they don't in deference to the retailers. It's one of the reasons Amazon (who have no such qualms) is often a cheaper place to shop than Paizo when purchasing Paizo products.

If this is true then, although these are not technically a Paizo product, they may still be following a similar policy given how closely tied the product is to them, resulting in Paizo sticking to some recommended price from Wizkids, even though others are selling for less.

The premium figure is designed for the various distributors to use as incentive in whatever way they like. It looks like the other site you mention is using it as a 'bulk buy' incentive - buy a case and you get a free figure. Paizo is using it as a 'subscribe' incentive - subscribe and you get a very cheap figure. Different people will respond to different incentives based on what suits them - for a variety of reasons, the differing price you have identified isnt enough for me to switch to a new supplier, for example but Paizo's premium offer was enough for me to add an additional subscription to what I really need.

I have heard (though not from Paizo directly) that, as a general rule, they do not undercut game stores when it comes to their own products. That is, although they could make decent profit by selling their APs, sourcebooks and so forth at considerably below the recommended retail price, they don't in deference to the retailers. It's one of the reasons Amazon (who have no such qualms) is often a cheaper place to shop than Paizo when purchasing Paizo products.

If this is true then, although these are not technically a Paizo product, they may still be following a similar policy given how closely tied the product is to them, resulting in Paizo sticking to some recommended price from Wizkids, even though others are selling for less.

The premium figure is designed for the various distributors to use as incentive in whatever way they like. It looks like the other site you mention is using it as a 'bulk buy' incentive - buy a case and you get a free figure. Paizo is using it as a 'subscribe' incentive - subscribe and you get a very cheap figure. Different people will respond to different incentives based on what suits them - for a variety of reasons, the differing price you have identified isnt enough for me to switch to a new supplier, for example but was enough for me to add an additional subscription to what I really need.

I would buy everything from Paizo if I did not have a game store I was loyal too. I only subscribe to the AP and Battle Case because I want to make sure my game store sells Paizo. I would subscribe to just about everything if not for the game store.

Is it possible to subscribe specifying a number of cases greater than 1, but stagger the shipment? For example, if I order a subscription specifying 2 cases and 2 premiums, would I be able to request 1 case and premium to be charged and delivered w/ my Dec shipment and then request the 2nd case and premium be charged and delivered in Jan?

I would love to preorder more than 1, however so close to Christmas, it would be a huge hit to the pocketbook. Since I know the next set doesn't come out for some time, I would feel quite safe in knowing I could pay for the 2nd case the following month.

I was just curious about the scale of these miniatures. Im assuming they will fit in the 1" grid of course. But i was wondering how they would look alongside D&D miniatures. I have looked online and on this site and havent really seen any information about that.

The real question is: How will DDM look alongside the PFB minis? I'm guessing they'll look real bad. If they deliver on the promises they made in regards to quality, those PFB minis will look extremely nice!

intensetional wrote:

I was just curious about the scale of these miniatures. Im assuming they will fit in the 1" grid of course. But i was wondering how they would look alongside D&D miniatures. I have looked online and on this site and havent really seen any information about that.

The real question is: How will DDM look alongside the PFB minis? I'm guessing they'll look real bad. If they deliver on the promises they made in regards to quality, those PFB minis will look extremely nice!

For DDM I think the worse quality was the human characters. They looked pretty dire. Monsters and even humanoids looked pretty good though. Still I am under the impression that Pathfinder Minis will be better. Which I do not quite get because they are all being made by the same company.

KaeYoss wrote:

intensetional wrote:

I was just curious about the scale of these miniatures. Im assuming they will fit in the 1" grid of course. But i was wondering how they would look alongside D&D miniatures. I have looked online and on this site and havent really seen any information about that.

The real question is: How will DDM look alongside the PFB minis? I'm guessing they'll look real bad. If they deliver on the promises they made in regards to quality, those PFB minis will look extremely nice!

For DDM I think the worse quality was the human characters. They looked pretty dire. Monsters and even humanoids looked pretty good though. Still I am under the impression that Pathfinder Minis will be better. Which I do not quite get because they are all being made by the same company.

1. Wizkids did not make the D&D minis. Wizards of the Coast did.

1. Wizkids did not make the D&D minis. Wizards of the Coast did.
2. There have been years of production quality increases from process improvements with the technology improving. The early D&D minis were at the begining of the lifecycle on the technology, and later ones suffered from cost cutting policies. The minis in the middle of the D&D run look significantly better, and we have 5 years of proccess improvements over them.

Ah thank you for that! I was going to mention technology but i didn't think there was really significant difference. i forgot hasbro produced ddm.

Which I do not quite get because they are all being made by the same company.

Uh, no. WizKids had nothing to do with DDM.

And DDM got better for a time. And then it got worse.

But from what I see, I think PFB will look better than DDM looked at its best. But back then, it would at least have been a contest.

I was just curious about the scale of these miniatures. Im assuming they will fit in the 1" grid of course. But i was wondering how they would look alongside D&D miniatures. I have looked online and on this site and havent really seen any information about that.

A standard human Pathfinder miniature looks the same size as a standard human DDM miniature looks the same size as a standard Reaper Pathfinder miniature.

All of them are designed to fit on a standard 1 inch = 5 feet grid, and all of the bases are designed to be the "correct" size for the creature's size, which happens to be the same in D&D and Pathfinder, so no worries there.

When will information on the Encounter Packs become available?

Probably not for a while, yet. Even I do not know for sure which ones WizKids will be making yet.

Is it possible to subscribe specifying a number of cases greater than 1, but stagger the shipment? For example, if I order a subscription specifying 2 cases and 2 premiums, would I be able to request 1 case and premium to be charged and delivered w/ my Dec shipment and then request the 2nd case and premium be charged and delivered in Jan?

I would love to preorder more than 1, however so close to Christmas, it would be a huge hit to the pocketbook. Since I know the next set doesn't come out for some time, I would feel quite safe in knowing I could pay for the 2nd case the following month.

Unfortunately, this type of customization is not available at this time. Sorry!

All of them are designed to fit on a standard 1 inch = 5 feet grid, and all of the bases are designed to be the "correct" size for the creature's size, which happens to be the same in D&D and Pathfinder, so no worries there.

I know you also said that during the "Future of Paizo" seminar during GenCon, but so glad to hear that. I am really glad to hear you are willing to make the collossal minis for the collossal creatures, and not just shrink them down to huge or gargantuan because it would be easier. Same for Gargantuan and Huge.

Well, thanks, but to be clear we do not currently have any plans to do _any_ Colossal miniatures at all.

But yeah, when we do Gargantuan minis (and we _do_ have plans for those), they'll be on the right-sized bases.

Well, thanks, but to be clear we do not currently have any plans to do _any_ Colossal miniatures at all.

No plans at all? Aren't there at least a couple key creatures in Rise of the Runelords that are colossal sized? I would hate to not see them, or at least 1 or 2 of them, just because of the large size of the mini and the more expensive price.

Nothing really important. I think there's a roc that flies by that you might or might not fight, but most of the "big" bad guys are gargantuan.

Yay! Worked everything out money-wise to subscribe before the cut-off to get the Black Dragon! So excited!

OK. A case is $200+. That's alot for exactly how many minis. I think a case is three bricks. Each brick is 19 packs. If each pack has 1 mini each, then that's 57 minis. Is that right? I also heard somewhere (probably the Know Direction podcast) that the small minis will be paired (two in one booster). Is this right? I think 57+ minis for $230 is a bit much (about $4/mini; doesn't sound so bad said like that.) That means for the Heroes and Monsters set, which contains 40 minis, one case should be enough to get the set.

I am supporting this with a subscription, mostly because I want to support Paizo and I love minis. I hope this works out but changes a bit as the market gives feedback to Paizo and Wizkids. I just don't like the idea of each booster only having one mini.

Good luck, Paizo, we're all rooting for you!!!

OK. A case is $200+. That's alot for exactly how many minis. I think a case is three bricks. Each brick is 19 packs. If each pack has 1 mini each, then that's 57 minis. Is that right? I also heard somewhere (probably the Know Direction podcast) that the small minis will be paired (two in one booster). Is this right? I think 57+ minis for $230 is a bit much (about $4/mini; doesn't sound so bad said like that.) That means for the Heroes and Monsters set, which contains 40 minis, one case should be enough to get the set.

I am supporting this with a subscription, mostly because I want to support Paizo and I love minis. I hope this works out but changes a bit as the market gives feedback to Paizo and Wizkids. I just don't like the idea of each booster only having one mini.

Good luck, Paizo, we're all rooting for you!!!

A case is four bricks. Four case gets you 12 Large and 64 Medium boxes. Each Medium box contains either one Medium mini or two Small minis (as you know). Without knowing the percentages of Medium to Small and rarity it's not possible to have accurate numbers, but we can guess.

You're looking at a minimum of 76 minis in a case. At this time we know there are four goblins, one dire rat, and one gnome fighter which are all Small. It's been stated that you should get one of each mold with a box. So assuming zero duplication in the Small size, you've got an additional six minis.

You're now at 82 minis per case, minimum.

If there are more Smalls, or if you end up with duplicates of some Smalls (it's been stated two of the goblins are common), you'll (likely) end up with more.

$233/82 = $2.84 per mini.

There are 40 unique molds, so you're going to have in the realm of two of each common mold. Random is random though, so you might end up with a bunch of the two common goblins, or just the one pair (or you might get really, really unlucky and be missing them, though that's supposed to not happen often.)

At less than $3 per mini, knowing I'm (likely) going to get a full set of rares, plus around two of each common, I'm pretty darned happy, especially having seen the quality of these things.

The only thing that's frightening me is the 60-mold Rise of the Runelords set. Going to be looking at a good $350 after discounts, plus possibly a couple case specials. So it's time to save up the pennies for a $360 plus shipping in the spring. This - of course - assuming I insist on "gotta have it", which is totally my fault, not Paizo's. I can't ever fault a company for making products I want.

Nothing really important. I think there's a roc that flies by that you might or might not fight, but most of the "big" bad guys are gargantuan.

Rocs are gargantuan.

The only thing that's frightening me is the 60-mold Rise of the Runelords set. Going to be looking at a good $350 after discounts, plus possibly a couple case specials. So it's time to save up the pennies for a $360 plus shipping in the spring. This - of course - assuming I insist on "gotta have it", which is totally my fault, not Paizo's. I can't ever fault a company for making products I want.

I think I read that for the Runelords set, there will be more than one miniature per booster.

So all bets concerning booster sizes, booster prices, brick sizes, case sizes, and total count of figures in the case (which, I guess, will continue to be seeded to minimise duplicates) are off.

All in all I suspect that for Runelords, one case will not net you a full set, which means that for that set (and probably all later ones as well), the secondary market will become more important for completionists.