Newbie Question: Skill points vs. ranks

Hi folks:

I'm just getting back into D&D after not playing since First edition AD&D. Yeah, it's been a while. So I'm approaching Pathfinder from the point of view of an essentially new player with some background of the mechanics of play.

First thoughts: Pathfinder is vastly more readable than 3.5. Overall it's much easier to understand than the 3.5 rules. Far too often I found myself going to the DM guide to find half of an answer, and then having to reference the player's handbook to get the rest of the answer.

Excellent job Paizo.

OK, on to my question: In the chapter on skill points it references both skill points and skill ranks. But I don't see anything discussing the relationship between points and ranks. In the 3.5 rules it cost 1 points to buy one rank of a class skill and 2 points to buy a rank ina non-class skill. Because of that you get a LOT of skill points when starting a new character so you can buy several ranks. In 3.5 table 4-1 you get 4 times as many skill points as in pathfinder (See pathfinder table 5.1).

However, I see that in Pathfinder when you buy a class skill you get +3 in that skill. So maybe that's how it gets balanced out if in Pathfinder one rank cost one skill point.

So is it correct to say that in Pathfinder one skill point buys one rank? And if that rank is a class skill then the character gets an additional +3? If this is right then perhaps the sentence in the paragraph on page 53 under the heading "Acquiring Skill" should read :

These skill points can be spent to purchase ranks of any skill at a cost of one skill point per rank . . .

Otherwise, there's nothing relating points to ranks.

The only other part of Pathfinder that I've found a bit confusing is that there's no description at the beginning of each class section describing what that class is all about. It just jumps straight to what 3.5 calls the Game Rule Information. When we were creating our characters for our first adventure I had to go back to the 3.5 rules to read the descriptions of what a cleric is and how it differs from a paladin and so on. I have a feeling this is simply a side effect of Pathfinder being in the Beta stage. I see that while the Beta is just over 400 pages the hardcover will be in the mid 500 page range so I'm guessing that this is the kind of additional text that will go into the hardcover.

But overall, Pathfinder is very well organized and the rules are much easier to understand while still holding on to the flavor and feel of a real D&D game. Well done.

So is it correct to say that in Pathfinder one skill point buys one rank? And if that rank is a class skill then the character gets an additional +3?

That is correct, with the minor point of making sure you realize the +3 is a one time modifier. Your question could be taken to mean the Class Skills get +3 per rank, not that I think you meant it that way.

The distinction between ranks and points is needed in standard OGL because of cross-class skills being double cost.
With that eliminated, PFRPG can safely delete one of the terms for ease of use.

The distinction between ranks and points is needed in standard OGL because of cross-class skills being double cost.

With that eliminated, PFRPG can safely delete one of the terms for ease of use.

I don't think that is the case. There are feats, race and class abilities that increase a character's skill points without increasing the ranks. A character often has more points in a skill than ranks. Ranks are important as they are often pre-requisites for entering prestige classes, whereas skill points are not. This limits entry by character level (max ranks in a Pathfinder RPG skill = character level), not how many points you have in a particular skill.

I don't think that is the case. There are feats, race and class abilities that increase a character's skill points without increasing the ranks. A character often has more points in a skill than ranks. Ranks are important as they are often pre-requisites for entering prestige classes, whereas skill points are not. This limits entry by character level (max ranks in a Pathfinder RPG skill = character level), not how many points you have in a particular skill.

And all those increases are relevant only when you have different costs for ranks in class and cross-class skills, and a maximum number of ranks different from class level. With the change to all ranks costing 1 skill point, the distinction becomes meaningless.

What Samuel says is correct.
IMHO, the terminology could be clarified to:

Skill Points/Ranks (one or the other, if there's one meaning, there should be one term)
& Skill Level (this is the total of all Ranks, Ability, Racial, Class, Feat, etc modifiers)

What Samuel says is correct.

IMHO, the terminology could be clarified to:

Skill Points/Ranks (one or the other, if there's one meaning, there should be one term)
& Skill Level (this is the total of all Ranks, Ability, Racial, Class, Feat, etc modifiers)

You guys are probably correct. Feats, abilities etc provide bonuses, not points, yeah?

You guys are probably correct. Feats, abilities etc provide bonuses, not points, yeah?

Yeah, the point is just what you spend to get a rank. And now that it's a 1:1 conversion across the board, there's no reason I can see to distinguish between the two. "At each level a character gets x skill ranks." "A human or PC who takes a level in her favored class gains 1 additional skill rank." Etc.

Hey, first of all, thank you for the informative responses. I've been working 2 jobs this week and haven't had much time to come back and check the message boards.

OK, 1 point = 1 rank and the +3 bonus is a one time bonus. That makes a lot of sense.

Thanks again.