Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player's Guide (OGL)

I can't wait for this to come out, but I have a query.

What happens when your Eidolon gets permanently anchored to it's home plane somehow after it gets sent home by an enemy caster? ._. The Summoner is then seriously gimped. What do you do in that case?

I ask because I really want to play a summoner once the book hits, but I'm really worried about this. I don't want to end up summonless and thus tremendously gimped, especially at higher levels when, y'know, every man and their dog probably has a way to get rid of it, rendering you fairly weak. I mean, as weak as still having up to level 6 summoner spells, but still, it's one hell of a hit.

I'm not sure what effect you're thinking of that would permanently prevent an eidolon from being recalled in this way... it'd be a rare enough effect that I'm not sure it'd ever come in to play unless there's something I'm just not thinking of.

Tyroki wrote:

I can't wait for this to come out, but I have a query.

What happens when your Eidolon gets permanently anchored to it's home plane somehow after it gets sent home by an enemy caster? ._. The Summoner is then seriously gimped. What do you do in that case?

I ask because I really want to play a summoner once the book hits, but I'm really worried about this. I don't want to end up summonless and thus tremendously gimped, especially at higher levels when, y'know, every man and their dog probably has a way to get rid of it, rendering you fairly weak. I mean, as weak as still having up to level 6 summoner spells, but still, it's one hell of a hit.

I'm not sure what effect you're thinking of that would permanently prevent an eidolon from being recalled in this way... it'd be a rare enough effect that I'm not sure it'd ever come in to play unless there's something I'm just not thinking of.

This actually happened to me in the game I'm currently in. It was totally GM fiat with no real explanation. Personally, if a GM does this he/she is 1.) a pr**k, and 2.) is afraid of something he doesn't understand. I think he pulled it with me because I was outclassing the multiclass Bard/Ranger/Fighter....shock there...

On an unrelated note, I am going to be at gencon and I will find your stand (not really a stand, but my brain is blanking...).

Here, have a Kleenex ... I think you have something on your nose :)

"Leave my nose alone!"

My DM was talking about an anchoring spell which was permanent, and brought it up as a potential problem I may have to face. Maybe it's not in pathfinders. If thats the case, I'll just ask him to not use it. Our last campaign was a mix of Pathfinders and original 3.5, so maybe he got muddled. I'm not sure, but I thought I'd ask anyways, as I don't want to find myself without my big nasty monster of nightmares guarding me for the rest of my career as a Summoner, just because it's been permanently barred from leaving it's home plane. It would be really dickish of a DM to do it, but the possibility is there, and it is nasty ._. Not saying mine'll do it, but if someones does, what then? Some DM's like to keep to the rules as they're written, even if that means pain and suffering. The Summoner class as I've seen it, does say that the Eidolon you have is all you get. No refunds. :P

Maybe making it so it can't be permanently anchored would be a good idea, to keep from some mean person utterly destroying the class.

Oh, and another question while I'm at it.

If the look of the Eidolon is entirely based on what the Summoner wants it to look like, does that mean that it can change in look in an instant so long as it keeps to it's base form? (Serpentine, Quad, Bi-ped + evolution add-ons)

If so, could it go from absolute nightmare fuel to all noble and nice looking in an instant? Walking around with an Eidolon made of pure nightmare fuel would get some really nasty looks from other people, and thus may get the group attacked, or most specifically, the summoner. We can only summon it once per day from it's home plane if it was forced home somehow (or told to go home)

Another thing. It doesn't heal while it's in the home plane unless it died? So it can only heal if healed by someone? Meaning each day you start with a gimped critter, depending on how much damage it took the previous day?

Saedar: I had that sort of thing happen when I finally managed to persuade my DM to let me be a psion. It took a few days of persuading, but he finally dropped the whole "You do not manifest, you cast exactly like a spell-caster" thing and instead added this epic chaos effect to every time I manifest, which to be honest, just made everything more fun. But I tell you what, that needs to be added to psionics aye. Having a team mate temporarily turn in to a duck and a random fireball go off in one encounter, and enemies killed by rain of gemstones (which persisted to be sold afterwards) just as we were going to get slaughtered, only to then on my next manifestation have an ally get a free Enlarge Person cast on them (while I still got my spells effect) to finish the enemies off in another encounter, was just plain awesome. XD So it does depend on the DM, but sometimes it takes a while.

Gorbacz wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

What you're looking for would more or less be identical to a cleric or a druid.

Full spellcasting plus a full base attack progression will never happen from a Paizo product.

I take that you aren't exactly on good terms with the Cleric variant from the Campaign Setting :)

Nope. That's going away in the revised book. It was a bad idea.

Can we have the Cloistered Cleric ( from Unearthed Arcana, p.50 ) back, then? I know a girl who would love to have the option to play that sort of cleric ( and the GM in that group only wants to use Pathfinder material ). :)

My DM was talking about an anchoring spell which was permanent, and brought it up as a potential problem I may have to face. Maybe it's not in pathfinders. If thats the case, I'll just ask him to not use it. Our last campaign was a mix of Pathfinders and original 3.5, so maybe he got muddled. I'm not sure, but I thought I'd ask anyways, as I don't want to find myself without my big nasty monster of nightmares guarding me for the rest of my career as a Summoner, just because it's been permanently barred from leaving it's home plane. It would be really dickish of a DM to do it, but the possibility is there, and it is nasty ._. Not saying mine'll do it, but if someones does, what then? Some DM's like to keep to the rules as they're written, even if that means pain and suffering. The Summoner class as I've seen it, does say that the Eidolon you have is all you get. No refunds. :P

To me, these are all very good questions. And while I'm not trying to be snippy (I'm sick, sorry for my tone) these could have come up in the APG Open Beta and been addressed while the book was still in flux.

To answer the question at hand, I've never seen a PERMANENT banish spell. Per PFRPG rules, as I understand them, both dismissal and banishment are duration instantaneous spells. There is no associated "the banished creature may not return within 1 year and a day" as I think there were in other previous rules sets.

Will we get more iconics for the new classes? :)

Edit : Damn, just noticed that there was 300 posts before mine. I didn't read if somebody raise the question earlier.

Will we get more iconics for the new classes? :)

Edit : Damn, just noticed that there was 300 posts before mine. I didn't read if somebody raise the question earlier.

Yes, there are new iconics and you can see them in the Free RPG day product that is available for download on Monday.

Will the pdf of this be $9.99? Since The GMG pdf is going to be $9.99. If this was announced elsewhere I guess I missed it.

Will the pdf of this be $9.99? Since The GMG pdf is going to be $9.99. If this was announced elsewhere I guess I missed it.

I don't think they have said yet.

Does the book have any optional rules on spells per day? I'm still trying to deal with the old "15-minute adventuring day" issue for spell casters (where they use up all their spells for one day during a the first 1-2 encounters of the adventure).

Does the book have any optional rules on spells per day? I'm still trying to deal with the old "15-minute adventuring day" issue for spell casters (where they use up all their spells for one day during a the first 1-2 encounters of the adventure).

Variant spellcasting will be presented in Ultimate Magic.

James Jacobs wrote:

Gorbacz wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

What you're looking for would more or less be identical to a cleric or a druid.

Full spellcasting plus a full base attack progression will never happen from a Paizo product.

I take that you aren't exactly on good terms with the Cleric variant from the Campaign Setting :)

Nope. That's going away in the revised book. It was a bad idea.

Can we have the Cloistered Cleric ( from Unearthed Arcana, p.50 ) back, then? I know a girl who would love to have the option to play that sort of cleric ( and the GM in that group only wants to use Pathfinder material ). :)

I believe Unearthed Arcana is OGL, so why not continue to use the optional rules in there?

Surprisingly, I am curious as to why Paizo never makes use of Unearthed Arcana?

Tyroki wrote:

I can't wait for this to come out, but I have a query.

What happens when your Eidolon gets permanently anchored to it's home plane somehow after it gets sent home by an enemy caster? ._. The Summoner is then seriously gimped. What do you do in that case?

I ask because I really want to play a summoner once the book hits, but I'm really worried about this. I don't want to end up summonless and thus tremendously gimped, especially at higher levels when, y'know, every man and their dog probably has a way to get rid of it, rendering you fairly weak. I mean, as weak as still having up to level 6 summoner spells, but still, it's one hell of a hit.

I'm not sure what effect you're thinking of that would permanently prevent an eidolon from being recalled in this way... it'd be a rare enough effect that I'm not sure it'd ever come in to play unless there's something I'm just not thinking of.

I believe there's a WotC produced 3E spell that banishes an extraplanar creature for a specific number of years or something to that effect. I remember seeing it once, I can't remember the spell or sourcebook. I'll have to do some searching.

Quick search I couldn't find it, but does Dimensional Lock prevent a summoned creature from being summoned once it returns? It states summoned creatures aren't prevented from returning, but nothing about coming back. What if Imprisonment was cast successfully on an Eidolon?

I believe Unearthed Arcana is OGL, so why not continue to use the optional rules in there?

Surprisingly, I am curious as to why Paizo never makes use of Unearthed Arcana?

Mostly because Paizo's Creative Director (me) isn't that fond of the alternate/variant rules in Unearthed Arcana. They're a bit TOO wacky for my tastes. I much prefer open content that expands the rules rather than replaces them.

I believe there's a WotC produced 3E spell that banishes an extraplanar creature for a specific number of years or something to that effect. I remember seeing it once, I can't remember the spell or sourcebook. I'll have to do some searching.

Quick search I couldn't find it, but does Dimensional Lock prevent a summoned creature from being summoned once it returns? It states summoned creatures aren't prevented from returning, but nothing about coming back. What if Imprisonment was cast successfully on an Eidolon?

Dimensional lock does nothing to prevent a creature from returning assuming you move to a point where dimensional lock is not in effect.

And if imprisonment hits an eidolon, you're probably 17th level and should be able to afford freedom to fix it.

Razz wrote:

I believe Unearthed Arcana is OGL, so why not continue to use the optional rules in there?

Surprisingly, I am curious as to why Paizo never makes use of Unearthed Arcana?

Mostly because Paizo's Creative Director (me) isn't that fond of the alternate/variant rules in Unearthed Arcana. They're a bit TOO wacky for my tastes. I much prefer open content that expands the rules rather than replaces them.

Does that include gestalt rules and Item Familiar feat? I'm interested to know because I'm very fond of those two items in UA.

I just hope this is still going to be a July release. My birthday is the last day of July and I'd like this in my grubby paws to read by then.

PDF by August 4th?

Thank you, Gen Con.

I believe Unearthed Arcana is OGL, so why not continue to use the optional rules in there?

We have a "Pathfinder rules only" policy in our campaigns ( both mine and the other one I am playing in ). That's why I'd love to see the Cloistered Cleric return as an official Pathfinder variant.

However...

Mostly because Paizo's Creative Director (me) isn't that fond of the alternate/variant rules in Unearthed Arcana. They're a bit TOO wacky for my tastes. I much prefer open content that expands the rules rather than replaces them.

... it doesn't seem so likely. ;_;

PDF by August 4th?

Thank you, Gen Con.

I hope before that for suscribers. <crosses fingers>

I received my "expect to ship next week or so" mail on Saturday.
I'm very excited to get this book!

I received my "expect to ship next week or so" mail on Saturday.

Whoa, really? Holy cats, I wasn't expecting it quite this early. I'll still be at the end of the pack, though. (sigh)

Zen79 wrote:

I received my "expect to ship next week or so" mail on Saturday.

Whoa, really? Holy cats, I wasn't expecting it quite this early. I'll still be at the end of the pack, though. (sigh)

Smart money says that's a glitch of some kind.

Another thing to remember is that there are two July shipments and the APG is slated to be in the late July shipment.

Joe Wells wrote:

Zen79 wrote:

I received my "expect to ship next week or so" mail on Saturday.

Whoa, really? Holy cats, I wasn't expecting it quite this early. I'll still be at the end of the pack, though. (sigh)

Smart money says that's a glitch of some kind.

Most likely. I immediately got it when I made my RPG suscription.

Most likely. I immediately got it when I made my RPG suscription.

So did I. Maybe it is really a glitch.

still no spoilers on the blog :-(

I got a similar message when I signed up for the subscription at the end of May in reference to the GMG, so I'd bet it's a glitch.

You guys are all killjoys.

(kicks dirt)

You guys are all killjoys.

(kicks dirt)

Better now than later, dude. Less pain if you just rip the bandaid off...

Sure I love what Jason has done for the game and I do want the APG, but Paizo is more than Jason. All of them, Lisa, Vic, Ross, Joshua, Eric, etc. are all important and none of them are slackers. Well perhaps Eric ;-)

That's not slacking; that's 'feigned nonchalance', as he practices his Serge Gainsborough impersonation.

I received my "expect to ship next week or so" mail on Saturday.

I'm very excited to get this book!

I have this on pre-order and did not get such an email but if you're getting that email it means they are going to be shipping out the books soon. I don't care if I get notification, I don't care if I get a free pdf, I just want the book itself. The only "It's Coming" email I've gotten is from Wolfgang Baur about the one module related to his Sunken Empires book. Which invariably means I'll have plenty of material to read.

I have this on pre-order and did not get such an email but if you're getting that email it means they are going to be shipping out the books soon.

It means it's a glitch since the book won't be sent to subscribers until late July.

Yeah master chymist!

Is it supposed to be chemist? maybe i'm wrong.

Yeah master chymist!

Is it supposed to be chemist? maybe i'm wrong.

Ye spakest not the olde tyme tongue? And ye callest thineself a role-player. For shame. To the village stocks with thee!

(It's an old, antiquated spelling of chemist.)

As long as it gets to my door by the end of the month. I'm not going to be caring overmuch.

As long as it gets to my door by the end of the month. I'm not going to be caring overmuch.

Well the goal is usually to be there as close to release as possible ... so Aug 5 is the goal as far as I know.

Aug. 4th is such a long way off...I wish there was a way to get it earlier...without subscribing that is. :(

Aug. 4th is such a long way off...I wish there was a way to get it earlier...without subscribing that is. :(

Give into temptation, you know you want to. It's fun I promise, just go subscribe and all you're dreams will come true.

Razz wrote:

Aug. 4th is such a long way off...I wish there was a way to get it earlier...without subscribing that is. :(

Give into temptation, you know you want to. It's fun I promise, just go subscribe and all you're dreams will come true.

Err... no. You forgot that they have to sign the contract and trade their souls before all their dreams come true. Applying for Chelaxian citizenship also helps a bit with that. ;)

But you never tell them that until after they sign. Then you they can read the contract. If they do not read it they never know until collection time....

Elves: "Wizard: Select one arcane school power at 1st level that is normally usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the wizard's Intelligence modifier. The wizard adds +1/2 to the number of uses per day of that arcane school power."

Here is the human sorcerer favored class option.
"Sorcerer: Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast."

This gnome bard favored class option:
"Bard: Add 1 to the gnome's total number of bardic performance rounds per day."

So is the Bard/gnome ability a joke or did I read it wrong? It isn't 1 round per level, it's only one round total. Are Gnomes going to keep on sucking? Looking at the Wizard/elf bonus and the Sorcerer/human bonus the gnome/bard just seem like ... a joke. But Gnomes and bard should have a sence of humor, they have been living in suck land for a long time so they must have a sense of humor.

Elves: "Wizard: Select one arcane school power at 1st level that is normally usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the wizard's Intelligence modifier. The wizard adds +1/2 to the number of uses per day of that arcane school power."

Here is the human sorcerer favored class option.
"Sorcerer: Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast."

This gnome bard favored class option:
"Bard: Add 1 to the gnome's total number of bardic performance rounds per day."

So is the Bard/gnome ability a joke or did I read it wrong? It isn't 1 round per level, it's only one round total. Are Gnomes going to keep on sucking? Looking at the Wizard/elf bonus and the Sorcerer/human bonus the gnome/bard just seem like ... a joke. But Gnomes and bard should have a sence of humor, they have been living in suck land for a long time so they must have a sense of humor.

It is one round per level. You get it every level for 20 extra rounds.

If it's a one-time bonus, the wizard can use his 1st level school power an extra half-time-- not a whole time-- and the sorcerer learns an extra 0th level spell.

Keep in mind you pick which FC bonus you take at each level. Each time you pick it you get a one time bonus for that level that (I assume) stacks. If it doesn't stack it doesn't make any sense.

So a human sorcerer would probably take Favored Class (Hit Points) for 1-3 level then take the Favored Class spell bonus for every level after that. (A pretty huge bonus actually) In a way it's kind of a stealth upgrade to the sorcerer class.

Gnome bards and elf wizards... not such a great bonus. I'm sure some people will take the extra bardic performance for low levels. Kind of eliminates the need for the 'extra performances' feat since you are much better using this and taking toughness :D

It is one round per level. You get it every level for 20 extra rounds.

If it's a one-time bonus, the wizard can use his 1st level school power an extra half-time-- not a whole time-- and the sorcerer learns an extra 0th level spell.

Ah, thanks for the answer. That's nice :-)

Keep in mind you pick which FC bonus you take at each level. Each time you pick it you get a one time bonus for that level that (I assume) stacks. If it doesn't stack it doesn't make any sense.

So a human sorcerer would probably take Favored Class (Hit Points) for 1-3 level then take the Favored Class spell bonus for every level after that. (A pretty huge bonus actually) In a way it's kind of a stealth upgrade to the sorcerer class.

Gnome bards and elf wizards... not such a great bonus. I'm sure some people will take the extra bardic performance for low levels. Kind of eliminates the need for the 'extra performances' feat since you are much better using this and taking toughness :D

I agree the bonus to the sorcerer is über. I wouldn't mind giving the same bonus to bards. More spells known.

Edit.
BTW I love the new Half-Orc racial trait, Toothy.

FenrysStar wrote:

As long as it gets to my door by the end of the month. I'm not going to be caring overmuch.

Well the goal is usually to be there as close to release as possible ... so Aug 5 is the goal as far as I know.

Well, the PDF will be available before that, since it is made available the day the book gets sent out with the mail. :)

Andrew Betts wrote:

FenrysStar wrote:

As long as it gets to my door by the end of the month. I'm not going to be caring overmuch.

Well the goal is usually to be there as close to release as possible ... so Aug 5 is the goal as far as I know.

Well, the PDF will be available before that, since it is made available the day the book gets sent out with the mail. :)

They change their normal procedure for this? Normally the PDF is not available to buy from here for a couple of weeks after they get sent through the distributor, unless you are a subscriber, then you get them the day they are sent to you.

magnuskn wrote:

They change their normal procedure for this? Normally the PDF is not available to buy from here for a couple of weeks after they get sent through the distributor, unless you are a subscriber, then you get them the day they are sent to you.

He's a subscriber. His PDF will be available the day they send it out.

magnuskn wrote:

Andrew Betts wrote:

FenrysStar wrote:

As long as it gets to my door by the end of the month. I'm not going to be caring overmuch.

Well the goal is usually to be there as close to release as possible ... so Aug 5 is the goal as far as I know.

Well, the PDF will be available before that, since it is made available the day the book gets sent out with the mail. :)

They change their normal procedure for this? Normally the PDF is not available to buy from here for a couple of weeks after they get sent through the distributor, unless you are a subscriber, then you get them the day they are sent to you.

Subscribers always get the PDF when the item is mailed out, generally 1-2 weeks before the "street date." PDFs for non-subscribers can only be bought on the "street date" which for Gencon is August 5th. This means that subscribers will get the PDF early at the beginning of August/end of July.

Razz wrote:

Aug. 4th is such a long way off...I wish there was a way to get it earlier...without subscribing that is. :(

Give into temptation, you know you want to. It's fun I promise, just go subscribe and all you're dreams will come true.

Go on, give it a try. You know you want to.