Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player's Guide (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player's Guide (OGL)
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Take your Game to the Next Level!

Explore new and uncharted depths of roleplaying with the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide! Empower your existing characters with expanded rules for all 11 Pathfinder Roleplaying Game core classes and seven core races, or build a new one from the ground up with one of six brand-new, 20-level base classes. Whether you're designing your own monstrous helpers as an enigmatic summoner, brewing up trouble with a grimy urban alchemist, or simply teaching an old rogue a new trick, this book has everything you need to make your heroes more heroic.

The Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

The 336-page Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide includes:

  • Six new base classes: the monster-hunting inquisitor, the explosive alchemist, the noble cavalier, the prophecy-haunted oracle, the monster-crafting summoner, and the hex-weaving witch
  • More than a hundred innovative new feats and combat abilities for characters of all classes, including Steal, Point-Blank Master, and Bouncing Spell
  • Variant class abilities, rules subsystems, and thematic archetypes for all 11 core classes, such as the antipaladin, the hungry ghost monk, and the urban ranger
  • Hundreds of new spells and magic items, from phantasmal revenge to the Storm King's Cloud Castle
  • A wealth of fantastic equipment, such as fireblast rods and fortune-tellers' cards
  • New prestige classes like the Master Chymist and the Battle Herald
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-246-3

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Last Updated - 12/01/2010

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good

5/5

good addition to the collection offers good spells and feats, came in on time and I bought the non-mint and I haven't noticed any damage to it.


Players: Buy this after the Core Rulebook

5/5

If you own a Core Rulebook and a Bestiary, what Pathfinder book should you buy next? A campaign setting book or an adventure module would be good answers, but if you're looking for more character options, the best answer would be the Advanced Player's Guide. This was Paizo's first big player-oriented hardcover to be released after the Core Rulebook, and it's safe to say they knocked it out of the park. This book has stood the test of time and still contains fantastic options for the game even though it was released several years ago. If you're playing PFS on a budget, for example, and you have to be choosy with what books or PDFs you buy, start with the Advanced Player's Guide. You'll find enough options in there to keep you busy for years.

What follows is a chapter-by-chapter review. Do keep in mind that this book pre-dates the publication of classes like the magus, vigilante, kineticist, etc., so you won't find options directly designed for them. In addition, because it's part of the RPG line, it does not contain Golarion-specific flavour (though everything in here is compatible with the setting). As a whole, I would classify the art as in the lower-middle spectrum of what Paizo can do, with a lot of reused mediocre stuff from earlier books. The layout as a whole, however, is quite nice.

Chapter 1 (Races): After an Introduction that's really just an expanded table of contents, Chapter 1 expands the options available for Core races (those found in the Core Rulebook). For each race, a sentence or two describes how each of the Core classes and the so-called Base classes (those found later in this book) are represented within the culture. I found this section was fairly generic and tried too hard to make it sound like each class was common in each race, so there wasn't anything that seemed special. Next up are alternative racial traits for the Core races. These are important in that they allow a player to swap out one of the special features of a race (like an elf's automatic familiarity with elven weapons, or a gnome's resistance to illusion) for a different special feature. In other words, it's a good way to customize your PC just a little more and ensure that not all dwarfs are skilled at stonework, for example. Last, this chapter presents new favoured class options for each of the Core races: instead of the normal rule that a new level in a favoured class provides 1 hit point or 1 skill point, these new options allow a particular race to get something different. For example, a gnome with the favoured class of bard could get an extra round of bardic performance each day, or a half-orc with the favoured class of fighter could get an additional +2 to stabilization rolls when dying. Note that each race only has new favoured class options for handful of classes (not all of them). Unlike the alternate racial traits, I wasn't particularly impressed with the flavour or thought given to the new favoured class options: many of them didn't seem to have any particular tie to the race. Half-orcs, for example, can increase their bomb damage if their favoured class is alchemist, while human paladins can start to get energy resistance--there's nothing in the write-up of these races that make these bonuses seem natural or logical. From an optimization perspective, these new favoured class options are quite useful--I just wish they were better from a storytelling perspective.

Chapter 2 (Classes): One of the most important things that the Advanced Player's Guide brings to Pathfinder is the introduction of six new "Base" classes: the Alchemist, Cavalier, Inquisitor, Oracle, Summoner, and Witch. I don't have a lot of space to review each one, so I'll try to be concise.

The Alchemist fills a real niche in the game, is quite versatile, and would be really fun to play. They get special abilities to rapidly make alchemical items (of course), but also can manufacture bombs, cast magic spells (in the form of drinkable "elixirs"), and temporarily "hulk out" by drinking a "mutagen." As a GM, my only concern is the fact that the bombs resolve against Touch AC, so in games I've run the alchemist PC hardly ever misses and does substantial amounts of damage as an area effect. I also think that perhaps the mutagen feature should have been reserved for a specific "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" archetype, as I don't thik it fits well as part of the basic assumption of alchemists.

The Cavalier could probably have been better represented as a Fighter archetype. Cavaliers are mounted knights who swear an oath to follow the precepts of a particular order. Different orders provide different bonuses, Cavalier's mounts are hardier than normal, and the class provides PCs and their allies with some limited use of teamwork feats (discussed below). As written, the class is fairly bland, and I don't think it fills a hole in what could be covered well by other classes. You also see Cavaliers relatively rarely in gameplay because, frankly, they're just inferior to other builds (and I should know, because I've played one for a couple of years now!).

The Inquisitor is one of those classes I'm a bit torn about. The idea is that they're specialists in rooting out corruption and heresy within their faith, which is thematically really cool: but I don't see how that fits naturally with the activities of the vast majority of adventuring parties in the game. The class is conceptually unique and has a lot of cool and useful abilities, some of which seem to fit from a flavour perspective (like Bane) but others that just seem kind of random (like Monster Lore and Cunning Initiative).

The Oracle is another interesting class that I'm unsure about conceptually. Mechanically, they're spontaneous divine spellcasters who don't worship deities per se but instead strive to unravel a particular "mystery." As they advance in level, they get "revelations" which are special powers. Some of the revelations are really cool, and the mysteries are very flavourful. I like the class better after reading it carefully, though I'm still not sure about the name of the class (since divination isn't the focus) nor about the vague relationship they have to deities. They are a divine spellcasting class that is much simpler to play than clerics (though less effective), and thus potentially a good choice for new players.

The Summoner as presented in this book is infamous as the most overpowered class in all of Pathfinder, to the point where most GMs and PFS disallow it. "Unchained" Summoners (as they're usually called in contradistinction to a different type from another book) are, of course, really good at summoning lots of monsters, which is annoying for everyone at the table because it dramatically slows down gameplay. But more problematically, each Summoner gets an "eidolon" which is a bit like a completely customizable and incredibly powerful monstrous animal companion. If you have an Unchained Summoner, you may as well be playing a solo campaign because you probably don't need anyone else in the party to win most encounters. I'm not sure how the Unchained Summoner ever made it through playtesting, but it stands as an example that even great companies like Paizo can make major mistakes.

The Witch is a full (up to 9th level spells) spellcasting class that receives special powers called hexes. Some of the hexes are really flavourful and cool, and the concept of the class as a whole is one I really like. There are two things about the class I'm not a fan of: first, familiars are a major part of the class and as both a player and a GM I find familiars really annoying to deal with (because they rarely contribute positively to a play experience); second, each witch receives bonus spells depending on what "patron" they choose, but the patrons are just abstract concepts (like "Agility" or "Water") and have no substance or flavour to them, and no real potential for story development. I think it was a bland and almost forgettable way of implementing a really cool idea (mysterious forces granting a character power in exchange for . . .?). I should also note that one of the witch's hexes, Slumber, has proven overpowered and problematic at a lot of tables.

So as a whole, I think the Alchemist is a real success, while Witches, Oracles, and Inquisitors are solid additions to the game. The Cavalier is mostly forgotten, while the Summoner is a good example of what not to do in terms of game design.

The Classes chapter then continues by offering each of the Core classes something special, often in the form of "archetypes." If you don't already know, archetypes are packages of abilities that swap out some of the features of a class in exchange for other features, and they've become an important part of most builds for experienced players. Here's a summary of what each Core class gets.

1) Barbarians receive a lot of cool new options for rage powers (though, oddly, a lot of them relate to consuming alcohol) and several archetypes that don't change a lot of class features but that are quite good;

2) Bards get some fantastic and (sometimes quite dramatic) archetypes, at least as written--but admittedly, I don't hear about them being played very often;

3) Clerics receive the introduction of "subdomains", which are, as the name indicates, "branch" domains. A cleric with the Sun domain, for example, could now choose the replacement special power and domain spells of the Light subdomain. It's a way to allow the further customization of clerics since they don't have a lot of class features to trade out for archetypes;

4) Druids get archetypes that are all terrain-based and quite formulaic, along with a handful of "animal shaman" archetypes that have the same essential ability to gain an aspect of a particular animal's powers.

5) Fighters get a lot of archetypes, most of which are poor in terms of flavour ("Archer" or "Two-Handed Fighter") but some that are quite nutritious, as it were, to aiding particular combat styles;

6) Monks get a lot of archetypes, most of which are pretty bland but some, like the Zen Archer, the Monk of the Four Winds' Slow Time ability, and the Monk of the Healing Hand's capstone power are pretty cool;

7) Paladins get archetypes that are okay, but there's some clunky features for the Divine Defender and Sacred Servant. There's also the introduction of the Antipaladin (formally an "Alternate" Class) which I know a lot of people demanded but I'm just not a fan of the concept because I think it devalues the essential goodness of the Paladin idea;

8) Rangers get new archetypes and some new combat styles. I really like the Guide archetype, as the Terrain Bond feature seems much truer to the niche that rangers should fill as wilderness experts. The Infiltrator and Skirmisher archetypes also get some cool stuff;

9) Rogues receive 30 new rogue talents and 12 new advanced rogue talents to choose from, though most are of the "1/day, roll two d20s and take the better" on a specific skill check type. I like the Fast Getaway talent (allowing a rogue to sneak attack and then withdraw), and imagine it would keep a lot of rogues alive. The class also receives several archetypes, but most are pretty thin and forgettable (though the Cutpurse could be used to devastating effect depending on GM discretion);

10) Sorcerers receive 10 new bloodlines, and although I'm not an expert on the class, they look useful and meaningful;

11) Wizards get new elemental schools to specialize in, and some of the special powers look like a lot of fun (like the Air school's Cyclone power or the Water school's Wave power). There's also the introduction of "Focused Arcane Schools" which you can think of as "super specialization" in a particular aspect of a School in order to gain replacement powers.

Whew! A lot of stuff in that chapter. Moving on.

Chapter 3 (Feats) contains a *lot* of new feats. The summary table which gives a one-line description of each one fills four pages. Many of the new feats are standalone things, but others can be grouped by type: several give an additional use of class features ("Extra Rage Power", "Extra Rogue Talent", etc.), make it easier to use the new combat maneuvers introduced at the end of the book, create new metamagic options for spellcasting (with "Dazing Spell" responsible for a lot frustration to GMs), etc. A new type of feat, Teamwork Feats, are introduced for the first time in this chapter. The idea with Teamwork Feats is that if two PCs (or allied NPCs) have the same feat, they both get bonuses in particular situations: for example, if two PCs have the "Allied Spellcaster" teamwork feat, they each get a +2 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. I do like the concept, but the proven problem is that it's often hard to get other players at the table to have their PCs take the same one that you're taking, and the bonuses provided by the feats aren't so amazing that groups are inclined to carefully coordinate.

Chapter 4 (Equipment) contains about 25 new weapons (including some of those fun, weird polearms D&D veterans will recognize), a handful of new types of armor, a lot of new pieces of adventuring gear, and several new alchemical items. There's not a lot here that's earth-shattering, though some items, such as Weapon Blanch, have become de rigeur for every smart adventurer. It would have been nice if more of the equipment was illustrated, and that better choices were made on what was essential to illustrate: I know what an hourglass looks like, for example, and don't need a picture, but seeing what a "light detector" looks like would have been interesting.

Chapter 5 (Spells) has 57 pages of options for spellcasters of every stripe. Reading through, I noticed a surprising number of cool Paladin spells, a lot of Bard "finale" spells (that are cast and instantly end bardic performance), and a lot of ninth level spells. Some of the spells I really liked include Blaze of Glory, Fire Snake, and Hero's Defiance, and the picture of Cacophonous Call on p. 209 is hilarious. Every spellcaster is bound to find something useful, but there are some problematic ones introduced in this chapter, like the Create Pit line, that GMs need to be aware of.

Chapter 6 (Prestige Classes) introduces eight new options that PCs could, but probably won't, strive for. Pathfinder long had a reputation for not making much of the prestige class concept, and that's only recently begun to change. Really fast verdicts: 1) Battle Herald: Love the concept, but everything is tied off an "Inspiring Command" bonus which just progresses too slowly, making the entire prestige class weak; 2) Holy Vindicator: no design room for the concept, and the abilities don't help; 3) Horizon Walker: the bonuses in some terrains are fantastic and in others completely "meh"; 4) Master Chymist: Classic Jekyll & Hyde alchemist; 5) Master Spy: I liked this more than I thought I would, and could see it used for a lot of NPCs or maybe a PC (in just the right campaign). Gets clever and useful foils to most means of detection, but abilities come on line much later than they should for most adventures; 6) Rage prophet: Not impressive. 7) Stalwart Defender: Good, cool abilities that fit the theme, and a good capstone power.

Chapter 7 (Magic Items) has something of everything: magic weapons, armor, wondrous items, minor and major artifacts, etc. The new metamagic rods are really powerful considering the price, the new staves are pretty boring, and there's a lot of stuff geared specifically for the new classes, which makes sense. If you've dumped Strength and are relying on Muleback Cords, you've got this book to thank. My only regret is that the chapter introduces so many fun cursed magic items, and I hardly ever get an opportunity to use any in a game.

Chapter 8 (New Rules) is an important chapter containing three new concepts: additional combat maneuvers, hero points, and traits. [I'm almost done, but have run out of space here. The end of the review can be found at: http://jhaeman.blogspot.com.au/2017/07/advanced-players-guide-rpg.html]


A very awesome book

5/5

this expands almost perfectly on what the core is.

They add some very solid and original class ideas.

This a must buy for some that like pathfinder


5/5


The Shinning Example of What Pathfinder Books Should Be

5/5

The Advanced Player's Guide (APG) is to this day one the best books for Pathfinder. It introduces a number of (now iconic) classes unique to the system.

The overall balance of the book is amazing. Alchemist and Inquisitor are probably the two most well-balanced classes in the game, and the latter is what I consider to be the best designed one in all of Pathfinder.

We get a few alternate rules that are pretty cool, such as word casting and character traits. We even get new combat maneuvers added to the fold!

The possibilities of character creation allowed by this book greatly increases the variety and fun of Pathfinder. If you can only buy a single expansion book, buy this one.

The book is not perfect, of course. The Summoner class (and even more so, its archetypes) would really benefit from clearer wording. It's sad to see cool ideas such as word casting being completely abandoned after this...

Still, those are minor problems in comparison to all the good stuff that is included in the APG, and the book still deserves its 5-star rating.


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Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Gianmarco Maggio wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Yup; which is 100% intentional and by design. The 11 core classes will probably ALWAYS have more options than the newer 6 base classes, simply because those 11 core classes are the core classes—they're the classes we know that folks have access to. (It's unrealistic to imagine that everyone who bought the core RPG will also by the APG... although that'd certainly be nice!).

We'll be supporting all 17 classes (core and base alike) going forward in new books, but we have no plans on doing a "catch up" product for the 6 base classes.

I asked this because my fear is that the core classes will become (using the new options) more powerful than the 6 new base classes, so that selecting one of the 6 new classes could seems a weaker choice for a player.

Could it be the case?

"New" is not equal to "more powerful." The goal here is not to bump up power levels, but to add flexibility and additional interesting choices for players. People have been playing clerics for a while, so we want to give them new things they can do next time they play a cleric. People haven't played a summoner before, so just having the class *is* a new option.


You guys are my F$%#in Heroes! After 4th came out i was about to burn all my books and start playing basic again. I'm so glad you guys took up the mantle and kept 3.5 alive! Keep it up!

Dark Archive

Gianmarco Maggio wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Yup; which is 100% intentional and by design. The 11 core classes will probably ALWAYS have more options than the newer 6 base classes, simply because those 11 core classes are the core classes—they're the classes we know that folks have access to. (It's unrealistic to imagine that everyone who bought the core RPG will also by the APG... although that'd certainly be nice!).

We'll be supporting all 17 classes (core and base alike) going forward in new books, but we have no plans on doing a "catch up" product for the 6 base classes.

I asked this because my fear is that the core classes will become (using the new options) more powerful than the 6 new base classes, so that selecting one of the 6 new classes could seems a weaker choice for a player.

Could it be the case?

Well, paladin is pretty powerful as it is, but I'm fairly sure I could whip up an alchemist that would seriously rock!

Ergo, I'm not worried in the least.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Razz wrote:
Are we able to see a ToC for this or no? I'm curious to get even a tease of what's inside.
I know we have Paizo Blogs scheduled for further teases for the next two Fridays...

Does this mean that there will be a preview/teaser each friday until the APG is released? A bit like the Core Rulebook?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Zark wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Razz wrote:
Are we able to see a ToC for this or no? I'm curious to get even a tease of what's inside.
I know we have Paizo Blogs scheduled for further teases for the next two Fridays...
Does this mean that there will be a preview/teaser each friday until the APG is released? A bit like the Core Rulebook?

Hmm. I appear to have been under the illusion I was posting in the GameMastery Guide thread when I said that. Sorry!

Right now, we're focusing on teasers for the GMG, seeing as it's our new release... but I'm sure you'll see a bunch of APG blogs in the weeks between PaizoCon (when we have our first big preview at the APG banquet) and Gen Con (when we release the book).


Vic Wertz wrote:
Zark wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Razz wrote:
Are we able to see a ToC for this or no? I'm curious to get even a tease of what's inside.
I know we have Paizo Blogs scheduled for further teases for the next two Fridays...
Does this mean that there will be a preview/teaser each friday until the APG is released? A bit like the Core Rulebook?

Hmm. I appear to have been under the illusion I was posting in the GameMastery Guide thread when I said that. Sorry!

Right now, we're focusing on teasers for the GMG, seeing as it's our new release... but I'm sure you'll see a bunch of APG blogs in the weeks between PaizoCon (when we have our first big preview at the APG banquet) and Gen Con (when we release the book).

:-(

Well you're only human.
Will the APG be released as a PDF as well? I will get the book, but I don't want to wait until the book hits Sweden. Also, a lot of us wants a book and a PDF.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Zark wrote:
Will the APG be released as a PDF as well? I will get the book, but I don't want to wait until the book hits Sweden. Also, a lot of us wants a book and a PDF.

The APG PDF will be available on the release date, August 5 (the first day of Gen Con).


I've found an interesting explanation about core classes vs new base classes from Jason Bulmahn in an old blog post:

"In addition to the expansion of the core classes, this book will also contain six new base classes. They are called base classes because they go from level 1 to level 20, but they are not core classes. Confused? Allow me to explain. We are making an assumption that these new classes will take a role in our world (and possibly yours) that is less common. You will not find them in every adventure, nor will they appear in every product. That means that you can introduce them to your game in a more limited fashion, without having to retcon them into every facet of your campaign."

That help me to understand better what James Jacobs meant with his previous post, and I have to say that I like the philosophy that leaded the development of the new classes and that the 11 core classes remain the main, most common classes now and forever.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

There's no such thing as a "Jason Jacobs" though... at least... not to my knowledge!


James Jacobs wrote:
There's no such thing as a "Jason Jacobs" though... at least... not to my knowledge!

Someone is using the gestalt rules


James Jacobs wrote:
There's no such thing as a "Jason Jacobs" though... at least... not to my knowledge!

Sorry, corrected :)


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
There's no such thing as a "Jason Jacobs" though... at least... not to my knowledge!
Someone is using the gestalt rules

Seems like perhaps a Half-Red Dragon Fiendish T-Rex.


James Jacobs wrote:
There's no such thing as a "Jason Jacobs" though... at least... not to my knowledge!

If there were such an unholy hybrid, we'd have to destroy it.

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
There's no such thing as a "Jason Jacobs" though... at least... not to my knowledge!

Maybe if you and Jason mated it would produce such a offspring?

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Google says not only is there a Jason Jacobs, he's 39 and lives in Seattle. Spooky.


Dark_Mistress wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
There's no such thing as a "Jason Jacobs" though... at least... not to my knowledge!
Maybe if you and Jason mated it would produce such a offspring?

I thought they had.....how else do you explain "Nicolas Logue"...oooh did I go too far??? ;-)


Russ Taylor wrote:
Google says not only is there a Jason Jacobs, he's 39 and lives in Seattle. Spooky.

I'm buying my ticket now. Russ, meet me at the previously agreed coordinates.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Zark wrote:
Will the APG be released as a PDF as well? I will get the book, but I don't want to wait until the book hits Sweden. Also, a lot of us wants a book and a PDF.
The APG PDF will be available on the release date, August 5 (the first day of Gen Con).

Thanks Vic! You've made me very happy :-)

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Dark_Mistress wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
There's no such thing as a "Jason Jacobs" though... at least... not to my knowledge!
Maybe if you and Jason mated it would produce such a offspring?

Ack! Urk! Pthagh!

brain .... sponge ... needed ..

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Russ Taylor wrote:
Google says not only is there a Jason Jacobs, he's 39 and lives in Seattle. Spooky.

I went to elementary school with a Jason Jakes. And a Jason Sloan. And two others I can't even remember the last names of. Very popular name back in the day. In fact, according to the U.S. Social Security Admin, Jason was in the top 4 most common boys' names EVERY YEAR from 1973 to 1983.

But it was never #1.

Spoiler:
A pox on all those Michaels that got in our way!!!!


Hallelujah, we got our first preview of all the new base classes!
Will your Paizo's home page crash? ;-)
I almost missed they were in the Chronicles Sheet to "Master of the Fallen Fortress"
Cool :-)

Sovereign Court

blackcat wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
There's no such thing as a "Jason Jacobs" though... at least... not to my knowledge!
Maybe if you and Jason mated it would produce such a offspring?
I thought they had.....how else do you explain "Nicolas Logue"...oooh did I go too far??? ;-)

Yes, yes you did.

Sovereign Court

Zark wrote:

:-(

Well you're only human.

He is?


Callous Jack wrote:
Zark wrote:

:-(

Well you're only human.
He is?

Well, we got our preview after all. :-)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Zark wrote:

Hallelujah, we got our first preview of all the new base classes!

Will your Paizo's home page crash? ;-)
I almost missed they were in the Chronicles Sheet to "Master of the Fallen Fortress"
Cool :-)

I think a lot of people haven't actually noticed that yet.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Zark wrote:

Hallelujah, we got our first preview of all the new base classes!

Will your Paizo's home page crash? ;-)
I almost missed they were in the Chronicles Sheet to "Master of the Fallen Fortress"
Cool :-)
I think a lot of people haven't actually noticed that yet.

Edit:

LOL, I think you are right. Poor Jason when they do.
The messageboards will explode.
Anyway. It was very kind.
edit2
Jason if you read this, will the Oracle get burning hands as a bonus spell at level 2? A lot of people will wonder, especially LastKnightLeft.

Dark Archive

Vic Wertz wrote:
Zark wrote:

Hallelujah, we got our first preview of all the new base classes!

Will your Paizo's home page crash? ;-)
I almost missed they were in the Chronicles Sheet to "Master of the Fallen Fortress"
Cool :-)
I think a lot of people haven't actually noticed that yet.

Well it is not super obvious unless you read the whole blog post. Plus the GMG just came out. I doubt most have come up for air yet. :)


Dark_Mistress wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Zark wrote:

Hallelujah, we got our first preview of all the new base classes!

Will your Paizo's home page crash? ;-)
I almost missed they were in the Chronicles Sheet to "Master of the Fallen Fortress"
Cool :-)
I think a lot of people haven't actually noticed that yet.
Well it is not super obvious unless you read the whole blog post. Plus the GMG just came out. I doubt most have come up for air yet. :)

Well I have come up :-) and I like it is not super obvious.

The summoner looks really powerful.

"Summon Monster I (Sp) You have summon monster I as a spell-like
ability. Using this ability is a standard action, and the summoned
creature remains for 1 minute (instead of 1 round). You cannot
have more than one summon monster spell active in this way
at one time. If this ability is used again, any existing summon
monster spell immediately ends."

Use it as a standard action and it last for a minute. Great.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Zark wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Zark wrote:

Hallelujah, we got our first preview of all the new base classes!

Will your Paizo's home page crash? ;-)
I almost missed they were in the Chronicles Sheet to "Master of the Fallen Fortress"
Cool :-)
I think a lot of people haven't actually noticed that yet.
Well it is not super obvious unless you read the whole blog post. Plus the GMG just came out. I doubt most have come up for air yet. :)

Well I have come up :-) and I like it is not super obvious.

The summoner looks really powerful.

"Summon Monster I (Sp) You have summon monster I as a spell-like
ability. Using this ability is a standard action, and the summoned
creature remains for 1 minute (instead of 1 round). You cannot
have more than one summon monster spell active in this way
at one time. If this ability is used again, any existing summon
monster spell immediately ends."

Use it as a standard action and it last for a minute. Great.

That's like looking at a close-up picture of a person's face and seeing only the eye and assuming that the person is covered with eyes. In other words, there's more going on there than what you can see—it's not really worthwhile to get too worked up about class balance when you can't see the whole thing.


Zark wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Zark wrote:

Hallelujah, we got our first preview of all the new base classes!

Will your Paizo's home page crash? ;-)
I almost missed they were in the Chronicles Sheet to "Master of the Fallen Fortress"
Cool :-)
I think a lot of people haven't actually noticed that yet.

Edit:

LOL, I think you are right. Poor Jason when they do.
The messageboards will explode.
Anyway. It was very kind.
edit2
Jason if you read this, will the Oracle get burning hands as a bonus spell at level 2? A lot of people will wonder, especially LastKnightLeft.

I'm not sure they'll explode. The ones I looked at closest seem pretty close to the Final Playtest Version. I made a thread to discuss any changes we find here.


James Jacobs wrote:


That's like looking at a close-up picture of a person's face and seeing only the eye and assuming that the person is covered with eyes. In other words, there's more going on there than what you can see—it's not really worthwhile to get too worked up about class balance when you can't see the whole thing.

We'll people will probably get worked up about anything regarding the new APG. Some will like that the summoner can still use the Summon Monster spell-like ability as a standard action and that it last 1 minute (per level?) and some will think it is too powerful.

What you gotta remember, people are active on the boards because they love Paizo and Pathfinder. So every time you think we are a pain in the *ss, remeber it's because we are all passionate about the game.


It may never happen but a part of me wants to see a variant ranger and/or paladin that gets spellcasting at 1st. I play rangers when I play so I'm pulling for rangers more than anything for this. But the idea I have is Ranger as a militant druid, Same 4 levels of spells but he gets more of them to cast almost like the bard in some respects. In this variant he'd also get at least 2 more spells in Goodberry and Faerie Fire. Good Berry because it's a healing spell thematically appropriate to how I have the class envisioned. Faerie Fire more as a frivolous spell he would cast at a party when more important spells are not needed. Or use it to enchant a carved vegetable for a Jack O'Lantern type of effect. Wouldn't give a whole lot of light but it would be fun to look at.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Zark wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Zark wrote:

Hallelujah, we got our first preview of all the new base classes!

Will your Paizo's home page crash? ;-)
I almost missed they were in the Chronicles Sheet to "Master of the Fallen Fortress"
Cool :-)
I think a lot of people haven't actually noticed that yet.

Edit:

LOL, I think you are right. Poor Jason when they do.
The messageboards will explode.

I doubt it; Jason's virtually never on here - I suspect what goes on on the boards doesn't bother him in the slightest.

Unless you meant James :)

Dark Archive

gbonehead wrote:
Zark wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Zark wrote:

Hallelujah, we got our first preview of all the new base classes!

Will your Paizo's home page crash? ;-)
I almost missed they were in the Chronicles Sheet to "Master of the Fallen Fortress"
Cool :-)
I think a lot of people haven't actually noticed that yet.

Edit:

LOL, I think you are right. Poor Jason when they do.
The messageboards will explode.

I doubt it; Jason's virtually never on here - I suspect what goes on on the boards doesn't bother him in the slightest.

Unless you meant James :)

Oh, that's not a nice thing to say; I think Jason cares a *LOT* about us and our opinions. The main reason he's not constantly posting here is that he's probably been *VERY* busy. Just think the about the amount of work he's done in the last couple of years (Core Rules, Crypt of the Everflame, APG, GMG etc.) and there are Bestiary 2 and the FAQ coming out. Jason is the Lead Developer, so it's no wonder he hasn't had a lot of time to hang around here.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
gbonehead wrote:
Zark wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Zark wrote:

Hallelujah, we got our first preview of all the new base classes!

Will your Paizo's home page crash? ;-)
I almost missed they were in the Chronicles Sheet to "Master of the Fallen Fortress"
Cool :-)
I think a lot of people haven't actually noticed that yet.

Edit:

LOL, I think you are right. Poor Jason when they do.
The messageboards will explode.

I doubt it; Jason's virtually never on here - I suspect what goes on on the boards doesn't bother him in the slightest.

Unless you meant James :)

Now that's a cheap (or grossly underinformed) shot. Jason was here constantly during the Alpha, Beta and APG playtests and his late disapperance was due to final phase of works on APG and *cough* Errata *cough*.


He..the Summoner is called Balazar is he...as a follower of RPG MP3s exploration of the 'Worlds Largest Dungeon' that's a name with resonance

Paizo Employee Creative Director

FenrysStar wrote:
It may never happen but a part of me wants to see a variant ranger and/or paladin that gets spellcasting at 1st. I play rangers when I play so I'm pulling for rangers more than anything for this. But the idea I have is Ranger as a militant druid, Same 4 levels of spells but he gets more of them to cast almost like the bard in some respects. In this variant he'd also get at least 2 more spells in Goodberry and Faerie Fire. Good Berry because it's a healing spell thematically appropriate to how I have the class envisioned. Faerie Fire more as a frivolous spell he would cast at a party when more important spells are not needed. Or use it to enchant a carved vegetable for a Jack O'Lantern type of effect. Wouldn't give a whole lot of light but it would be fun to look at.

What you're looking for would more or less be identical to a cleric or a druid.

Full spellcasting plus a full base attack progression will never happen from a Paizo product.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Asgetrion wrote:
Oh, that's not a nice thing to say; I think Jason cares a *LOT* about us and our opinions. The main reason he's not constantly posting here is that he's probably been *VERY* busy. Just think the about the amount of work he's done in the last couple of years (Core Rules, Crypt of the Everflame, APG, GMG etc.) and there are Bestiary 2 and the FAQ coming out. Jason is the Lead Developer, so it's no wonder he hasn't had a lot of time to hang around here.

Jason is actually the Lead Designer, not the Lead Developer.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

What you're looking for would more or less be identical to a cleric or a druid.

Full spellcasting plus a full base attack progression will never happen from a Paizo product.

I take that you aren't exactly on good terms with the Cleric variant from the Campaign Setting :)


OK, as you can see I am a subscriber to this line of books, but I do not want this book, so what is the best way for me to go about skipping this book and not miss the Game Masters Guide?

Do I just cancel my subscription, and then as soon as I see this has shipped restart it?


James Jacobs wrote:
FenrysStar wrote:
It may never happen but a part of me wants to see a variant ranger and/or paladin that gets spellcasting at 1st. I play rangers when I play so I'm pulling for rangers more than anything for this. But the idea I have is Ranger as a militant druid, Same 4 levels of spells but he gets more of them to cast almost like the bard in some respects. In this variant he'd also get at least 2 more spells in Goodberry and Faerie Fire. Good Berry because it's a healing spell thematically appropriate to how I have the class envisioned. Faerie Fire more as a frivolous spell he would cast at a party when more important spells are not needed. Or use it to enchant a carved vegetable for a Jack O'Lantern type of effect. Wouldn't give a whole lot of light but it would be fun to look at.

What you're looking for would more or less be identical to a cleric or a druid.

Full spellcasting plus a full base attack progression will never happen from a Paizo product.

No, a Druid has too many spell casting levels and I prefer the ranger's sidebar if you will. There was an interesting idea in Dragon magazine once in the form of a Mystic Ranger.

Dark Archive

Robert Miller 55 wrote:

OK, as you can see I am a subscriber to this line of books, but I do not want this book, so what is the best way for me to go about skipping this book and not miss the Game Masters Guide?

Do I just cancel my subscription, and then as soon as I see this has shipped restart it?

Pretty much, yes. Once the Advanced Player's Guide has shipped to subscribers, you should be able to restart your subscription starting with Advanced Player's Guide or Bestiary II (which is the book after Advanced Player's Guide).

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Gorbacz wrote:
gbonehead wrote:
Zark wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Zark wrote:

Hallelujah, we got our first preview of all the new base classes!

Will your Paizo's home page crash? ;-)
I almost missed they were in the Chronicles Sheet to "Master of the Fallen Fortress"
Cool :-)
I think a lot of people haven't actually noticed that yet.

Edit:

LOL, I think you are right. Poor Jason when they do.
The messageboards will explode.

I doubt it; Jason's virtually never on here - I suspect what goes on on the boards doesn't bother him in the slightest.

Unless you meant James :)

Now that's a cheap (or grossly underinformed) shot. Jason was here constantly during the Alpha, Beta and APG playtests and his late disapperance was due to final phase of works on APG and *cough* Errata *cough*.

Not a shot in the slightest. I picture him as being busy as hell and barely having time to read his regular email, never mind burning precious time slacking on these boards like the lot of us :)

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
Asgetrion wrote:
Oh, that's not a nice thing to say; I think Jason cares a *LOT* about us and our opinions. The main reason he's not constantly posting here is that he's probably been *VERY* busy. Just think the about the amount of work he's done in the last couple of years (Core Rules, Crypt of the Everflame, APG, GMG etc.) and there are Bestiary 2 and the FAQ coming out. Jason is the Lead Developer, so it's no wonder he hasn't had a lot of time to hang around here.
Jason is actually the Lead Designer, not the Lead Developer.

Designer... developer... almost the same thing, right? ;)


I should have written James. He is the one who have been active on the boards the last couple of months. Sure Jason has been busy, but James sure hasn't been slacking. I'm sure James work just as hard as Jason. Jason is the man when it comes to rules in the core rulebook and the APG, but Paizo is so much more that these two books. In fact they are one way of promoting their adventure paths.
Paizo would not have been where they are now without the brilliant and creative mind of James Jacobs, who also is my favorite member of the staff. Sure I love what Jason has done for the game and I do want the APG, but Paizo is more than Jason. All of them, Lisa, Vic, Ross, Joshua, Eric, etc. are all important and none of them are slackers. Well perhaps Eric ;-)

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Zark wrote:

I should have written James. He is the one who have been active on the boards the last couple of months. Sure Jason has been busy, but James sure hasn't been slacking. I'm sure James work just as hard as Jason. Jason is the man when it comes to rules in the core rulebook and the APG, but Paizo is so much more that these two books. In fact they are one way of promoting their adventure paths.

Paizo would not have been where they are now without the brilliant and creative mind of James Jacobs, who also is my favorite member of the staff. Sure I love what Jason has done for the game and I do want the APG, but Paizo is more than Jason. All of them, Lisa, Vic, Ross, Joshua, Eric, etc. are all important and none of them are slackers. Well perhaps Eric ;-)

Here, have a Kleenex ... I think you have something on your nose :)


I can't wait for this to come out, but I have a query.

What happens when your Eidolon gets permanently anchored to it's home plane somehow after it gets sent home by an enemy caster? ._. The Summoner is then seriously gimped. What do you do in that case?

I ask because I really want to play a summoner once the book hits, but I'm really worried about this. I don't want to end up summonless and thus tremendously gimped, especially at higher levels when, y'know, every man and their dog probably has a way to get rid of it, rendering you fairly weak. I mean, as weak as still having up to level 6 summoner spells, but still, it's one hell of a hit.


Tyroki wrote:

I can't wait for this to come out, but I have a query.

What happens when your Eidolon gets permanently anchored to it's home plane somehow after it gets sent home by an enemy caster? ._. The Summoner is then seriously gimped. What do you do in that case?

I ask because I really want to play a summoner once the book hits, but I'm really worried about this. I don't want to end up summonless and thus tremendously gimped, especially at higher levels when, y'know, every man and their dog probably has a way to get rid of it, rendering you fairly weak. I mean, as weak as still having up to level 6 summoner spells, but still, it's one hell of a hit.

If someone has the tenacity to banish your eidolon, plane shift to where he is and then spam dimensional anchor on him, then really, plane shift to the eidolon's home and kill that guy.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Gorbacz wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

What you're looking for would more or less be identical to a cleric or a druid.

Full spellcasting plus a full base attack progression will never happen from a Paizo product.

I take that you aren't exactly on good terms with the Cleric variant from the Campaign Setting :)

Nope. That's going away in the revised book. It was a bad idea.

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