Just scanned it after downloading looks great one of the best cities in the entire setting
Great work of a single, deranged, tormented mind of a man, young, yet already depraved beyond salvation.
Aww... you guys are making me blush!
Aww... you guys are making me blush!Great work of a single, deranged, tormented mind of a man, young, yet already depraved beyond salvation.
Careful, everyone, that's part of his seduction routine! Next step, guitar!
Careful, everyone, that's part of his seduction routine! Next step, guitar!Aww... you guys are making me blush!Great work of a single, deranged, tormented mind of a man, young, yet already depraved beyond salvation.
Personal experience, Sean? :)
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What happens at PaizoCon, stays at PaizoCon....
What happens at PaizoCon, stays at PaizoCon....
LOL!!!!!
I echo the others in my enjoyment of this book so far! Now I have to figure out how to get my players there, since only one of them actually wants to go anywhere near there...
And that brings up a possible 'Easter Egg' question. In the section describing the Therassic Spire, it tells GMs that it is (spoilered, just in case):
Would that library happen to be
I ask because my players are nearing that location, and I would love to be able to tie the two together with references found there (^_^)
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
Would that library happen to be ** spoiler omitted **
Probably, as the location of that library was named as
Therassic Monestary
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In an effort to make the PathfinderWiki more useful and user-friendly, we have started creating indicies of Paizo publications, and not only listing the page numbers of a book's major topics, but also linking them directly to wiki articles.
I have started on such an index for City of Strangers, although as of this writing, I have only made it about halfway through the book. Also please note that I have elected to create the index first and then write articles about each of the topics, so most of the internal links will lead to empty pages.
Please let me/us know if you find these indexes useful and how we might be able to improve them.
Other indicies (also works in progress) include those for Dave Gross' Hell's Pawns, The Lost Pathfinder, Heart of the Jungle, in addition to our popular Monster Index.
And that brings up a possible 'Easter Egg' question. In the section describing the Therassic Spire, it tells GMs that it is (spoilered, just in case):
** spoiler omitted **
Would that library happen to be ** spoiler omitted **
Sure sounds plausible, don't it? ;)
In an effort to make the PathfinderWiki more useful and user-friendly, we have started creating indicies of Paizo publications, and not only listing the page numbers of a book's major topics, but also linking them directly to wiki articles.
I have started on such an index for City of Strangers, although as of this writing, I have only made it about halfway through the book. Also please note that I have elected to create the index first and then write articles about each of the topics, so most of the internal links will lead to empty pages.
Please let me/us know if you find these indexes useful and how we might be able to improve them.
Other indicies (also works in progress) include those for Dave Gross' Hell's Pawns, The Lost Pathfinder, Heart of the Jungle, in addition to our popular Monster Index.
Holy crap! That index is amazing!
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Holy crap! That index is amazing!Thanks! I'll let everyone know when it's finished.
And I am finished with the read-through. Check out the "final" index here (link).
Having read through it, I will definitely say that this is now my favorite Paizo publication to date. I think Mr. Sutter has done a great job with providing a top-notch setting, one which could be the site of many different types of adventures. I also like the fact that he only briefly touches on countless topics (well, not countless since I have not cataloged them all). By not spelling everything out, he maintains the inherent mystery of the setting, and he leaves it up to the GM to fill in the blanks, which is actually a much more effective way to spark the imagination.
Now all I need to do is write articles for all those red links.
BrOp
Sure sounds plausible, don't it? ;)And that brings up a possible 'Easter Egg' question. In the section describing the Therassic Spire, it tells GMs that it is (spoilered, just in case):
** spoiler omitted **
Would that library happen to be ** spoiler omitted **
Squee.
;D
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
Looking awesome so far!
Question: Bloatmage Bloat ability - the chart says it goes from 1d4 to 2d4 to 3d4. Text says 1d4 to 1d8 to 1d12. Text trumps by default, but I thought I'd ask (1d12 is much wickeder).
Question: Bloatmage Bloat ability - the chart says it goes from 1d4 to 2d4 to 3d4. Text says 1d4 to 1d8 to 1d12. Text trumps by default, but I thought I'd ask (1d12 is much wickeder).
After discussing this with James, we like the 1d4/1d8/1d12 option in the text better, as it makes bloating a little more risky for the reckless character--which makes the class more appealing if you're a player who likes to take risks.
Note that if you play the class carefully, you'll probably never rage if you use your bloat ability. But sometimes an adventure requires you to push yourself a little harder than you'd planned....
(We're both pretty sure that the original idea was 1d4/2d4/3d4, and that we had a discussion very similar to the one we just had, and that resulted in the body text change to 1d4/1d8/1d12, but we accidentally didn't update the table.)
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Quick spoilery question.
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Quick spoilery question.
** spoiler omitted **
Whoops! That's a typo - he should be NE, not N. (And for what it's worth, he probably sees himself as more neutral, while pretty much everyone outside of his faction sees him as evil... I think that's a pretty common character trait for my evil characters. :)
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Whoops! That's a typo - he should be NE, not N. (And for what it's worth, he probably sees himself as more neutral, while pretty much everyone outside of his faction sees him as evil... I think that's a pretty common character trait for my evil characters. :)
I think that's actually true in RL as well: most a**hats don't think of themselves as that, they think they're being perfectly reasonable.
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I just have to say that Kaer Maga is my new favorite Golarion city. I have the first several encounters of an adventure path set there written out already, and my players aren't gonna know what hit them.
Many of the Chronicles books that describe cities I find to be a bit dry. This one, on the other hand, I read cover to cover last night and read through it again today. I really liked the way that it covered the city in broad strokes without going too far into the lives of everybody there.
Excellent work, Mr. Sutter. My thanks to you for creating such a great sourcebook.
I just have to say that Kaer Maga is my new favorite Golarion city. I have the first several encounters of an adventure path set there written out already, and my players aren't gonna know what hit them.
Many of the Chronicles books that describe cities I find to be a bit dry. This one, on the other hand, I read cover to cover last night and read through it again today. I really liked the way that it covered the city in broad strokes without going too far into the lives of everybody there.
Excellent work, Mr. Sutter. My thanks to you for creating such a great sourcebook.
Wow! Thank you! I'm not sure there's a better compliment than reading a book twice back-to-back. :)
One question: Why title this books without the name of the City?
Anyone seeing this on a book shelf in their local gaming store won't have a clue what it's about.
Dark Markets: A Guide to Katapesh however, is an example of a sensible title.
Kaer Maga: A City of Strangers would have perhaps been a better choice.
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One question: Why title this books without the name of the City?
Anyone seeing this on a book shelf in their local gaming store won't have a clue what it's about.
Dark Markets: A Guide to Katapesh however, is an example of a sensible title.
Kaer Maga: A City of Strangers would have perhaps been a better choice.
Well.
Anybody who knows what Kaer Maga is, more than likely knows about the book.
Anybody who doesn't know what Kaer Maga is, likely won't see much difference between "Kaer Maga" and "City of Strangers", because both names mean nothing to him :)
One question: Why title this books without the name of the City?
Anyone seeing this on a book shelf in their local gaming store won't have a clue what it's about.
Dark Markets: A Guide to Katapesh however, is an example of a sensible title.
Kaer Maga: A City of Strangers would have perhaps been a better choice.
Well.
Anybody who knows what Kaer Maga is, more than likely knows about the book.
Anybody who doesn't know what Kaer Maga is, likely won't see much difference between "Kaer Maga" and "City of Strangers", because both names mean nothing to him :)
I see what you're saying but as least with my suggested title it is clear that the city's name is Kaer Maga and therefore one could "look it up" to learn about where/what it is. Also 2 or 3 years down the road the book isn't really selling itself when sitting on the shelf with its current name.
Also it's possible that you may already know the name from the Campaign Setting [most peoples starting point] Map. However if you google it, it's not going to be obvious that The City of Strangers is relevant, assuming it comes up at all.
You could also read the back cover which is something a lot of people do anyway to figure out what's in a book. Kaer-Maga is the third or fourth word in the back cover blurb.
This is true, however my point is that it may not even get picked up!
I think it's poor marketing but feel free to disagree!
On the bright side, I do know what it's about and I'm rather pleased I have it as my players have just move into the cinderlands!
You could also read the back cover which is something a lot of people do anyway to figure out what's in a book. Kaer-Maga is the third or fourth word in the back cover blurb.This is true, however my point is that it may not even get picked up!
I think it's poor marketing but feel free to disagree!
On the bright side, I do know what it's about and I'm rather pleased I have it as my players have just move into the cinderlands!
Hey Stuart! You have a good point. The decision to start using shorter titles for the campaign setting line came from a couple of places:
1) The fear that having what's essentially a nonsense word in the title would turn people off (and as much as I love the city, and am glad some folks already knew about it, I suspect that you're part of the well-informed minority :).
2) The desire to keep our book titles from getting really bloated... i.e. "Pathfinder Campaign Setting - City of Strangers, a Guide to Kaer Maga."
3) It just seemed punchier.
We've been going back and forth on the issue for a while (you can see us experimenting with the convention in things like Seekers of Secrets), but if it sounds like most folks prefer the longer titles, you can bet we'll take that into account!
Do people build and live on top of the hexagonal wall?
Or is it just an empty expanse of stone up there?
Do people build and live on top of the hexagonal wall?
Or is it just an empty expanse of stone up there?
You know, in my mind, nobody really lives on top of the wall, simply because there's more than enough space inside (which comes with a ready-made and leak-proof ceiling). Now that you mention it, however, there are undoubtedly a few crazy folks who build houses up there, probably anchoring them to the stone with pitons and cables so the wind from the cliff doesn't sweep them off. (For some reason, I imagine it's mostly gnomes who feel the urge, plus rookeries of squabbling gargoyles.)
Could make for a really fun encounter location!
Creative Director
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Titles that are too long (what James Sutter calls "bloated" above) can cause some very real problems when it comes to creating covers, catalog entries, and even listing the title next to other titles. Shorter titles not only help us to avoid making our art director angry by forcing her into corners when it comes to cover design, but also help us to get the point across without being too wordy. In a lot of cases, and especially with titles, less is more.
Looking awesome so far!
Question: Bloatmage Bloat ability - the chart says it goes from 1d4 to 2d4 to 3d4. Text says 1d4 to 1d8 to 1d12. Text trumps by default, but I thought I'd ask (1d12 is much wickeder).
I'm a bit confused. Why would you say 1d12 is wickeder then 3d4 for this ability? It still caps at the same.
I'm a bit confused. Why would you say 1d12 is wickeder then 3d4 for this ability? It still caps at the same.Looking awesome so far!
Question: Bloatmage Bloat ability - the chart says it goes from 1d4 to 2d4 to 3d4. Text says 1d4 to 1d8 to 1d12. Text trumps by default, but I thought I'd ask (1d12 is much wickeder).
I believe it is because one is less likely to accidentally hit a 12 with the 3d4 than with the 1d12. The 3d4 is less likely to hit the extremes of very low and very high that could lead to a bloatmage raging.
I believe it is because one is less likely to accidentally hit a 12 with the 3d4 than with the 1d12. The 3d4 is less likely to hit the extremes of very low and very high that could lead to a bloatmage raging.I'm a bit confused. Why would you say 1d12 is wickeder then 3d4 for this ability? It still caps at the same.Looking awesome so far!
Question: Bloatmage Bloat ability - the chart says it goes from 1d4 to 2d4 to 3d4. Text says 1d4 to 1d8 to 1d12. Text trumps by default, but I thought I'd ask (1d12 is much wickeder).
Well, i suppose so yes, but the max is the same. So it doesn't seem to be to change much either way in practice. (yes i understand the % chance of any given roll is different)
Well, i suppose so yes, but the max is the same. So it doesn't seem to be to change much either way in practice. (yes i understand the % chance of any given roll is different)I believe it is because one is less likely to accidentally hit a 12 with the 3d4 than with the 1d12. The 3d4 is less likely to hit the extremes of very low and very high that could lead to a bloatmage raging.I'm a bit confused. Why would you say 1d12 is wickeder then 3d4 for this ability? It still caps at the same.Looking awesome so far!
Question: Bloatmage Bloat ability - the chart says it goes from 1d4 to 2d4 to 3d4. Text says 1d4 to 1d8 to 1d12. Text trumps by default, but I thought I'd ask (1d12 is much wickeder).
JB had it right - a d12 is over five times as likely to hit 12 as 3d4, and almost three times as likely to hit 11 or 12. So even at 10th level Bloatmage, if you're at your start of day blood pool, and Bloating to prep for a big battle, you have a 16% chance of raging instead of a 6% chance. You also *always* have a chance of sickening yourself, even if you're at 0 blood points.
I love this class :)
I am a little confused about the history of Kaer Maga. In the book it says that the founder of the Thassilon empire found the city on the edge of the cliff that divides the Cinderlands / the Storval Plateu from the Lowlands (can't remember the name of the cliff)....
I thought that this cliff was created not until the fall of Thassilon?
I am not certain if it is mentioned anyplace when the Stovral Plateau rose to form the cliff you mention, but it was certainly present during the reign of the Runelords and the beginnings of Thassilon. That is why they needed the giant steps called the Storval Steps, to make it easier for the giants to travel on foot up to or down from that plateau. Ten thousand years is after all just a blip of time, geologically speaking.
I am not certain if it is mentioned anyplace when the Stovral Plateau rose to form the cliff you mention, but it was certainly present during the reign of the Runelords and the beginnings of Thassilon. That is why they needed the giant steps called the Storval Steps, to make it easier for the giants to travel on foot up to or down from that plateau. Ten thousand years is after all just a blip of time, geologically speaking.
I assumed they where created in the apocalyptic incidents during the fall of Thassilon - but you are right, since the Thassilonians carved steps and monuments into the cliff that can not be. I simply misremembered that bit.
I assumed they where created in the apocalyptic incidents during the fall of Thassilon - but you are right, since the Thassilonians carved steps and monuments into the cliff that can not be. I simply misremembered that bit.
The geological history of the Cinderlands is detailed in Pathfinder # 10, A History of Ashes, 59. There it is said that the Storval Plateau rose when two tectonic plates collided and one was forced to slide beneath the other, lifting up the Plateau in the process. This also caused the emergence of the cinder cones.
It is further detailed that the land atop the Plateau ignited when Bakrakhan sank into the sea, thus creating the Cinderlands.
So the Plateau is older than Thassilon, but the Cinderlands are the result of its demise.
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the map of the undercity is absolutely beautiful in a mysterious and sinister kind of way...I love it!
Me too! That map is just gorgeous, and a modified version that did not include all the locations would work as a really nice hand-out.
Now I'm sorely tempted to run a whole campaign set in Kaer Maga, because this book is absolutely *brimming* with great ideas. And it's written so damn well; I just love the evocative language and the gloomy tone! Everything from the troll augurs to Tallow Boys and all that lies beneath the City of Strangers... man, this stuff is twisted, deranged, ingenous and brilliant!
All I can say is that I think this is the best Chronicles book so far, and I want to see James writing more products! :)
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James, I have a question about CoS, concerning architecture; in the book it is described that the hollowed-out city walls contain caverns and chambers in which the houses have been built. However, this is not how it appears on the map; instead, it looks like there are no separate chambers or caves and in fact the walls just appear to be "ordinary" city walls surrounding pretty much typical, cobbled city streets. Is this just a cartography "glitch"? Or am I missing something here?
Hey folks! For the geological information: It's my understanding that the Storval Plateau was already a plateau in Thassilonian times. The geological upheaval you're remembering from the fall of Thassilon is the one that created the Varisian Gulf (which wasn't always flooded--that region sank in the resulting chaos).
As for the map: the real truth of the matter is that fully mapping Kaer Maga would take an entire map folio, as you'd end up with at least 8 different overlayed schematics of each level for the various vertical levels. In the end, in the interest of having space for text, giving GMs some room to invent their own areas as necessary, and keeping me from going totally nuts, we elected to map only the ground floor, which is the part outsiders see most anyway.
Everything that's shown between the two wall lines is in fact *inside* the walls themselves. The ground floors of the Ring districts tend to be pretty open in their layout (and some, such as the Bottoms and Cavalcade, are actually open to the sky where the upper levels/ceiling fell in long ago). In most such districts, however, the layers above the ground floor are a lot more claustrophobic and hive-like, with the exception being places like Bis where the entire district is pretty much one enormous chamber (hence the need for the balconies).
Hope that helps!
As for the map: the real truth of the matter is that fully mapping Kaer Maga would take an entire map folio, as you'd end up with at least 8 different overlayed schematics of each level for the various vertical levels. In the end, in the interest of having space for text, giving GMs some room to invent their own areas as necessary, and keeping me from going totally nuts, we elected to map only the ground floor, which is the part outsiders see most anyway.
Everything that's shown between the two wall lines is in fact *inside* the walls themselves. The ground floors of the Ring districts tend to be pretty open in their layout (and some, such as the Bottoms and Cavalcade, are actually open to the sky where the upper levels/ceiling fell in long ago). In most such districts, however, the layers above the ground floor are a lot more claustrophobic and hive-like, with the exception being places like Bis where the entire district is pretty much one enormous chamber (hence the need for the balconies).
Hope that helps!
Hi James,
I just started reading through this supplement (and really enjoying it!), and I had the exact same question about the map.
What I can't figure out from the map is: There don't seem to be any walls or divisions inside the ring districts on the bottom level. For example, there's a road that runs almost all the way around the city near the outer wall, broken up only by the Cavalcade district. If you travel this road, it would seem that you never pass through a wall, which makes the entire ring at ground level appear to be a giant, low-ceilinged room.
I hope this doesn't sound too critical; this is a fantastic idea, and with all the levels and connections, it would be a bear to map out completely. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.
So, a basic question -- If you were levitating above the Palace of the Child Goddess and looking south, could you see all the way over the rooftops to the south wall (around the Temple of Asmodeus)? Or are we supposed to assume that there are many floor-to-ceiling walls in the way?
thanks!
Hi James,
I just started reading through this supplement (and really enjoying it!), and I had the exact same question about the map.
What I can't figure out from the map is: There don't seem to be any walls or divisions inside the ring districts on the bottom level. For example, there's a road that runs almost all the way around the city near the outer wall, broken up only by the Cavalcade district. If you travel this road, it would seem that you never pass through a wall, which makes the entire ring at ground level appear to be a giant, low-ceilinged room.
I hope this doesn't sound too critical; this is a fantastic idea, and with all the levels and connections, it would be a bear to map out completely. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.
So, a basic question -- If you were levitating above the Palace of the Child Goddess and looking south, could you see all the way over the rooftops to the south wall (around the Temple of Asmodeus)? Or are we...
In my imagination--and again, this is just my take--the ground floor of Kaer Maga *is* mostly open, though there are probably some pillars and the occasional wall segment strewn around there (and likely incorporated into the structures... why build four walls for your house when you could build three?). That said, the ceiling height of the various districts varies considerably (and changes within the individual districts as well). In Bis, the ceilings are incredibly high, and in the southern districts you can actually see sky in places, but I imagine that Ankar-Te and Oriat are a lot lower-ceilinged... probably no higher than 20 feet in many places, with larger structures naturally built in those areas where the ceiling is higher. If I had to pick the district that has the lowest ceilings, I'd guess that it's Tarheel... nothing over there is more than a few stories.
All of which is a long way of saying: If you levitate somewhere on the ground floor, you can probably see quite a ways over the rooftops, but nowhere near as far as in a normal city. And after the ground floor, the higher levels get quite cramped and twisted.