Giant Worm

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Goblin Squad Member. Organized Play Member. 813 posts (2,226 including aliases). 1 review. 5 lists. 1 wishlist. 5 Organized Play characters. 9 aliases.

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First, Paladin = LG. Period. imho. That *is* what a Paladin is.

I am all for another class with similar powers that can be any embodiment of their deity but it needs to be called something else. It seems like this is what the Warpriest was going for, and so I wouldn't be surprised to see that later when this comes out for real.

Second, calm down. This is just the playtest. There are years and years worth more books with new classes and archetypes coming.

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I've been wondering about this too and am curious why it isn't being discussed more. It is pretty absurd that there is seemingly no way to move a creature and maintain a grapple.

So the dragon that swoops down and grabs a sheep for dinner has to let it go mid-air each round after moving and then hope to catch it again? A giant cant grab a small creature and move with it?

Surely I am just missing something in the text...

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This confuses me as well.

Let's say that I want to be super knowledgeable on strawberries.
I could petition the GM for Lore(Strawberries), yay!

But why would I go down to that level.

Doesn't Lore(Fruit) cover strawberries and all fruit?
Why stop there, doesn't Lore(Botany) cover strawberries and all other plants?
Can we go higher? Doesn't Lore(Nature) cover plants and animals, also including the strawberry?

I think we need a 'nominal' list of main categories. Then, perhaps, you should get some kind of bonus if you go down to specific Lore. So, if I took an entire skill on Lore(Strawberry), I should have a higher chance to succeed than over Lore(Fruit) in matters about strawberries. Of course, the GM should take this into account anyway when setting the DC, but it would be better to call it out in writing.

Otherwise, why would I bother to go down beyond the Nature or Botany level when those should cover strawberries too? (Maybe the GM thinks Nature is too broad, ok, but Botany is pretty specific as Botanists exist.)

Hmm .... I suddenly need a milkshake ...

I don't play PFS, but I can see this being more of an issue there. Our home group will likely settle in on a set of Lore groups over time. However, from GM to GM there may be more variation for a PFS character. Which GM gets the say over the Lore skill? Only the first one that presided over the creation?

Silver Crusade

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Hazreem Al'Shakar_1 wrote:


+1 to Wild Shape per day (Huge Elemental unlocked!)

I remember in the old days when polymorph had an HD limit instead of a size limit and I spent nearly all of levels 17+ as a Colossal Red Dragon. I’m sure th GM just loved it.

It’s all coming back to haunt me now, isn’t it ... :)

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NobodysHome wrote:

Blood Money is not only non-core (not in the PRD), but it's insta-banned from all games of mine.

As are pretty much all spells and feats that are of the, "I don't want to have to prepare ahead of time, so I have an infinite bag of 'anything I need at no cost', thank you very much" variety.

I'm sure you could find exceptions (the Traveler's Any-Tool comes to mind, where you're paying a ginormous up-front fee to avoid stupid questions like, "Do you even have a hammer?"), but I was around in the AD&D days, when players rebelling against restrictions placed on the game eventually derailed it so much that we left the D&D world for 30+ years and chose other, more sensible RPGs.

Pathfinder's trying to head the same way with Mythic, Unchained, and the like, and my feeling is, "If you want to play infinitely-powerful PCs, let's just play Randomania and not waste money on rulebooks you're going to ignore anyway."

Not that I'm opinionated about it or anything...

Just catching up on this thread after a few months off the forums. I have to agree here and this is a standing rule of mine too. No spells unique to APs or Modules you are not playing in. Just because it is in Herolab doesn't mean its available.

Blood Money, in canon, is found in only two places I know of, The Anathema Archives and Karzoug's spellbook. So unless you are in Rise of the Runelords, or some post-Karzoug slaying adventure, no Blood Money.

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NobodysHome wrote:
Anyway, that extra 5 AC fundamentally changed the combat, as is pretty obvious when you think about it. At the end of last session, Malek had opened the door into the great hall, been hit by the two waiting alchemical golems, and the party saw nine morlocks waiting for them, and those who could see magic auras saw...

One non-electronic option:

Graph paper with their standard AC on the top broken out by bonus type in each column. Then, list buffs underneath broken out by type, and they can easily track the total. Notecards is another option.

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Diego Rossi wrote:

A second level spell is "surely" the equivalent of a 5th level spell with limitations ("If cast upon a creature that has died within 1 round,") consequences (Creatures brought back to life through breath of life gain a temporary negative level that lasts for 1 day." and a 7th levels spell.

But that second level spell doesn't give you any benefits of actually sleeping, which is a big downside to any but pure melee classes. Like I said before, Keep Watch seems to be way worse as a 1st level spell.

The real question for a GM to houserule is whether just removing the fatigued condition is enough to prevent you from dying from lack of sleeping. I would say yes in my games because ultimately it is fatigue that kills you.

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Cavall wrote:
That's a scarecrow argument, and little to do with this thread.

It is completely applicable. Magic can bring you back to life, even after being dead for 10 years. Why would removing the need for rest somehow fall outside its boundaries?

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Keep Watch is a 1st level spell that a bunch of non-cleric classes get and gives you the benefits of a full night sleep (spells, abilities, Hp, etc.)

Nap Stack is a 3rd level spell that is ridiculously helpful in essentially granting extra night's sleep for a single night's sleep.

Lesser Restoration is a 2nd level spell that takes away the fatigued condition and does not give you any benefits for a night's rest.

Honestly, Keep Watch is way more of the issue than lesser restoration.

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You mean to tell me that the *Death* condition can be cured by a simple casting of Breathe of Life, Raise Dead, Resurrection, Reincarnation (ignoring Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle)?

You mean to tell me that the "I've lose an arm or a leg" condition can be cured by a simple casting of Regeneration?

Are these somehow less severe conditions than not sleeping?
But, to one of your other points: Humans will die without sleep, yes, unless of course you cast lesser restoration, because magic!

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I try to pre-roll and pre-prepare random encounters just as if they were part of the adventure. For me, to make it truly random means a lot of unnecessary slow down during play and I am bound to play the encounter sub-optimally if I have to read/remember everything right on the spot.

Scratch Paper

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That is a good point, Corvus, as well. If the most glaring issue is "what was the lich doing with his spare time", then everything else is likely pretty solid. Of course, it is hard to discuss actually play matters at this point since very few groups would have made it to this book yet.

Given that, I didn't really try to think about it much, but I imagine that even if you knew what you were going it would take a tremendous amount of time to build and program a functional clockwork leviathan single handed. I am sure there was a lot of time spent on failing and trying again as well.

If I made it to this book, I think I would just play up the "mad scientist tinkerer" aspect of Auberon and perhaps leave a lot more evidence of his clockwork machinations. "One time the master went into his laboratory and didn't come back out for 300 years, oh those were good times ...".

Silver Crusade

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The Vanji river meets the Fever Sea like an open wound, the iron-rich clay dying the waters rusty red. Legends hold that the blood-tinted waters issue from the wounds of the Gorilla King, who lives in the hearts of the dark jungle. The ramshackle town of Bloodcove clings precariously to the enormous roots and scaffold-wrapped trunks of a gigantic mangrove tree that grows at the edge of the river mouth. This port maintains its existence between the laden trade ships with their cargoes of kahveh, ivory, precious metals, and exotic woods from the interior, and also through the customs paid by the visiting pirates from the Shackles offloading stolen goods and booty.

Expeditions up the river for the rare commodities the jungle holds end in disaster as often as success, but the lure of a quick fortune ensures a steady flow of traders and speculators despite the danger. Whatever their goals, all who head upriver leave port with one final admonition from the locals ringing in their ears. “Anything can happen on the Blood“
-Pathfinder Chronicles

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Dave Justus wrote:

(Note I believe that the "Unknown Supplier of Druidic Magic" is actually a committee, and this is just the sort of thing one would expect to get from a committee.)

It is probably a sub-committee of the CFB Playoff committee.

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Skeld wrote:
justaworm wrote:
My f2f group has average finishing an AP per 4 or so years.

So... you're saying that I'm slow?


Hah, I was merely stating fact. I have no idea what is slow or fast. Frankly, we are probably right on track for the number of hours we put into it. It seems to be mostly kids' soccer that's our problem... :)

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What are you trying to actually achieve? For all of your home games, great, druids can wear metal armor now. Otherwise, the rule is very clear and doesn't have to "make sense".

It isn't an issue of being "natural", it is more of a "it once was alive" thing. Its been a druid thing for a long time, and it probably existed originally to add balance and flavor. However, that balance was undone anyway through the use of special materials. It used to be a great milestone to done your first suit of dragonhide platemail or scalemail as a druid...

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One way to eliminate the pointless encounters and encourage PCs to solve problems without fighting is to ditch XP. I highly recommend it. ;)

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What is the summary of all this? Is this about right?

Slashing / Bludgeoning penalty (-2 att / 50% dmg):
[-] Will affect physical blasts associated with slashing and bludgeoning unless kineticist has Freedom of Movement
[-] Does not affect the bludgeoning damage from a water blast (or "any other damage caused by pushing water")

Ranged Attacks Underwater (-2 att per 5ft of water):
[-] Physical blasts are ranged attacks and therefore suffer from this penalty
[-] Elemental blasts do not (ranged touch)
[-] Water kineticists can also avoid this penalty with the water blast
[-] The composite blasts featuring water may avoid depending on how they cause damange (e.g., Charged Water would avoid this penalty, as it acts by "pushing water", but Ice Blast would not because it is hurling a physical piece of ice)

Spellcasting Underwater (concentration check - DC 15 + spell level):
[-] Contention over whether SLAs count ... rest assumes so
[-] Penalty is not applicable if caster can breathe water
[-] Kinetic blasts and wild talents are subject to this

Fire Spells Underwater (caster level check - DC 20 + spell level):
[-] Affects fire blasts and related wild talents

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Skeld wrote:

No thanks. I live in Korvosa.


Hmm, I am trying to figure out who is the Queen ...

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I would reiterate GM Tyrant Princess' advice to read the article in the last book of Legacy of Fire on wishcraft. Efreet, if not generally, then likely many specifically, are thought to be masters of wishcraft magic.
They twist the wish to their whims as it is being cast and the more words provided the more opportunity will come for corruption.

For you, any efreet bound this way is likely going to want revenge, which will be a lot of fun.

For the player, reiterate to them that 3 normal wishes would normally come with a 75k gp price and its not going to happen.

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I do like the basic story of the book and do agree with your points and need for some plot adjustments.


I don't recall if it is written up this way, but Naqualia's motives can be emboldened if Ochymua is onto the PCs' arrival in Tallassantri and orders Naqualia to deal with them. Given that the PC's arrival in the city is kind of a big deal, given the amount of surfacers who come there, she then makes the decision that attacking them outright may expose her and she decides to try and subvert them instead. I think one of the note handouts mentioned her wanting to distract the guards so as to not draw attention to her search for Vallik as well.

I think creating more of a link between Jurix and Naqualia may help the storyline along as well. I wouldn't do a strong link, but something more like some information that Jurix can pass along if she is friendly enough (or the PCs pay enough) about the fact that Naqualia harassing the PCs and looking for some other agent in town. She is the main crime boss after all, she should know something is going on. I really don't understand the whole Jurix storyline much either and so this may help tie that up as well.


First, I agree that making a land tomb does not make sense for Wavewalker. I think the designers just wanted to provide some relief from being underwater and that's it.

Now for explaining it ...
A lot of extrapolating could be done here. First, gold and rare antiquities can go a long way for motivation. Especially any magical items that can protect the ship/crew on the seas, create wind or currents to help the ship when there is no breeze, and more things a ship's captain and crew would specifically be interested in.

Even just one high-ish level spellcaster could make itself able to leave the water and help with excavation (move earth, soften earth, stone shape, etc.), and it would make sense that as many grateful and able Tallassantri citizens would help.

As for motivation to complete it, the underwater foremen would easily not pay them until done, and there are tons of ways to check on their work. Also, getting on the bad side of an underwater city could be a very bad idea for a ship captain, especially one that regularly passed by this route.

We do know that ships pass do pass by the area because there are shipwreck survivors currently on the island.

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This would be why I wouldn't play PFS with a stranger for a GM.

How did the paladin know the dart was poisoned?

And, what rule did he break below?

PRD wrote:
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the paladin's mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies).

It seems more like the GM just does't like paladins, especially if the 1st level player wasn't warned first.

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So here's a shot from my perspective. I am Vallik, a shapeshifting ooze that has been hiding out in Talasantri for a long time. I was created millennia ago by an Azlanti wizard, along with many others of my kind, to act as a specialized attack and spy force (p. 5). For many years after Earthfall, I wandered the seas looking for surviving Azlanti ... my masters. Around 300 years ago I found Auberon and was delighted again to be reunited with an Azlanti wizard after so long. In the years, my excitement waned as the unease of being around the lich and his undead minions began to wear on me. He wasn't like the Azlanti I knew well, and I just wanted to get away. Would he be furious if I left with the knowledge of what he was and where his tower was, I don't know. I am going to try and leave anyway.

About 100 years ago, I took my chances and snuck away from Auberon while he was distracted with some scheme. I happened along an underwater city that was heavily damaged in some recent attack by some large sea creature. It was a perfect opportunity for me to blend in, and I take on the life of one of the residents helping to rebuild. I am more than a little paranoid that one day Auberon or his minions will come for me. Every decade or so, I take a new form and start over. I learn so much around me between my forms and I delight in collecting tons of intelligence information about this city, but sadly I will never be able to make a report to anyone who will care. I stay anyway.

Every so often I catch wind of someone looking for me; probably someone sent by Auberon [p. 54 "periodically changes his form over the years, throwing off all but the best and luckiest attempts to find him, implies others have looked for him]. That is when I know it is time to change my form again and start over.

Some time ago I took the form a merfolk and secured a job at the Lionfish gallery. There are a lot of respectable people with secrets who come through, and a lot of rumors and discussion that is to be heard. People don't see me, they see a lowly servant of the gallery. I like it that way. Things were going well until I caught wind again of some deep merfolk seeking me out. She was very determined and had a whole group of servants helping her.

One night, after closing she emerges from the shadows, "Greetings Myrddan, or perhaps Vallik is more appropriate. She says." I freeze, am I finally done for? I don't know. She oozes with confidence, power, and yet ... desperation. How could I have been so careless, As she talks, I don't get the feeling she has been sent by Auberon but I highly distrust her and am annoyed myself for being in this situation. I ready to blast her with my lightning spell, and then cast invisibility and get out of there.

She seeks Auberon she says her master is very powerful and wants to have a chat with the wizard. I try to brush her off at first, but that is when the two blades come out. But that isn't all, there is apparently another group of mercenaries seeking me out and she says they aren't going to be as "nice" as she is. I don't know what to believe, but I don't see the harm in giving her the location of the Alabaster tower. Maybe her and her master can take Auberon out.

I thought it was over and she was going to leave. Yes, she was even leaving as they came into the gallery: the four mercenaries she talked about. I didn't recognize them at the time as the heroes of Talasantri, and I am not sure it would have mattered right then anyway. Naqualia warned me they were coming and here they were.

They seemed honestly surprised when my blast of chain lightning struck them. Hah, Naqualia too. Perhaps she underestimated me. Quickly, I fled to the dark shadows of the museum and transformed into a barracuda. One of them burst through the secret door and looked confused when I wasn't to be found. They even cast a spell, presumably thinking I was invisible, but in reality I was right there just swimming around. I watched them fight Naqualia and kill her. Life is strange. Even for me. She tried so hard to find me just to find Auberon's tower and never left the museum alive with that information.

Why? Why were the heroes of Talasantri after me? I have no idea, but hope to stay as a fish for some time until I find out. I do know that they don't seem to be looking for me after all, or at least they aren't trying very hard. It seems that they are instead after something called Ochymua and have set out for Auberon's tower. Again, this is strange. What is with all of this sudden interest in Auberon. Could this Ochymua be Naqualia's master? How did it find Auberon without Naqualia telling him? I don't care enough to go back to the master's tower to find out. Perhaps, yes perhaps I will reveal myself to the heroes of the city before they leave and try and figure out what is going on.


- Naqualia has no mind control ability
- Between diplomacy and intimidate, she could keep Vallik there talking
- Vallik may be intrigued enough about the prospect of sending someone to Auberon's tower and possibly confront him.
- As a mezlan, Vallik is breed to be a spy and could be willingly exchanging information with Naqualia. It already feels that Auberon is not really worth being an Azlanti master any longer anway.
- The text says that Vallik ultimately just wants to get away and start a new life, and so I don't see it attacking more than it takes to get away.
- Though, ultimately a mezlan is basically immortal and may be interested in a challenging fight. It will basically reform in 10 years time in the worst case. Couldn't find on Paizo PRD, but d20pfsrd had it
- I like the idea of it being confused and keeping tabs on the PCs, only to discover that they weren't after him. It could then decide to help them with information.

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So my burning question for Adam is, how many times do you check back in with a split group only [in another room of the house] and find them all passed out during a marathon session?

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pad300 wrote:


You could buy her barding on the cheap.

Game mechanics-wise, maybe.

However, it makes no sense that froghemoth barding would be available pretty much anywhere that is commonly known to PCs (would allow a knowledge check for potential cities that *may* have it). So, you would have to get it custom crafted, which would definitely take some time, or resort to some pretty powerful magic. Then, I would also make my PC have to roll to push it to accept barding as well, as I can't imagine it would be in its nature. Finally, if all that goes well, you are going to bring its movement down from 20' to something else.

I am sure there are better +armor spells to cast on it that would be.

Either way, still no joke ... :)

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Blood Money is a unique spell from ancient Thassilon that only appears in 1 hard to read scroll and also the end game bbeg spellbook in Rise of the Runelords.

I wouldn't allow unique spells from Adventure Paths unless we were playing that adventure path (or that the events of an adventure path has already occurred in the campaign world), especially unique spells belonging to bbegs...

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Lighting penalties.

Its like the one weakness of humans and yet how often is it ignored because its too annoying to keep track of the lighting penalties.

20' out from the area of normal light provided by a source is dim light - many targets in this region are conveniently ignored their 20% miss chance simply because the human source is within the normal light area.

40' from the edge of normal light source is darkness.

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Contingency, PRD wrote:

You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate when casting contingency. The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time. The 10-minute casting time is the minimum total for both castings; if the companion spell has a casting time longer than 10 minutes, use that instead. You must pay any costs associated with the companion spell when you cast contingency.

The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).
The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being "cast" instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when triggered. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to.
You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled.

Contingency->Contingency doesn't work because

1. You cast both spells at the same time with Contingency.
2. So you would be casting Contingency and Contingency
3. "if a second is cast, the first is dispelled"

Why on earth would you not just Contingency->Mind Wipe ?

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Skeld wrote:

Oooooo, what are you buying me? You know I had a birthday a couple weeks back. :D

-Your GM

It is called , "1001 tips and tricks to totally make your GM's life difficult", or something like that.

Or, perhaps just a Critical Hit Deck. :)

Silver Crusade

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Part II: (this one is aimed at you paladins)

Let's assume that the mystical powers of Golarion would instantly take away your paladin powers for using wolfsbane this way.

As a paladin of the Dawnflower, if my ally were infected with Lycanthropy and my only option were wolfsbane. I would without question use it, even if it meant I would fall.

This is my ally, my friend! How could I watch him or her become an uncontrollable killing machine and live with myself? I would trade in all my power right now to save him if I could.

It is never wrong to do the right thing.
This is my life as a Paladin. If Sarenrae disapproves, we will have to talk about it later.

Silver Crusade

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Part I:


Combat Monster wrote:
As is most often the case, the one thing a Paladin has to fear is a bad GM.


Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Many times the difference between poison and medicine is merely dosage and application.

For example

A paladin won't fall by giving an apple to a friend. (I assume we can all agree here.)
But ...
1. Apples contain arsenic
2. Arsenic is a poison
3. Paladin must fall for giving an apple to a friend.

Intent and dosage people... you cannot possibly believe that Sarenrae would punish one of her Paladins for trying to cure someone of a horrid curse of Lycanthropy. It is as ridiculous as falling for giving a friend an apple.

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The GMs job is to provide a memorable experience for the players.

I totally don't care what they are fudging, and I fudge a lot of stuff as a GM (much of the time in favor of the PCs). I think everyone should GM sometime and realize what is really going on, especially all the time spent preparing, and be a little more sympathetic than a lot of the conversation I see on these forums.

Rules (and especially non-rules) are just a construct to try and make the game playable, and the GM should implement them fairly (towards the NPCs and all the PCs together), but they are completely right in whatever they want to change. You've earned that when you spend many extra hours putting time into something.

Here is the very 1st rule in the PRD:

PRD wrote:

The Most Important Rule

The rules presented are here to help you breathe life into your characters and the world they explore. While they are designed to make your game easy and exciting, you might find that some of them do not suit the style of play that your gaming group enjoys. Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs. Most Game Masters have a number of "house rules" that they use in their games. The Game Master and players should always discuss any rules changes to make sure that everyone understands how the game will be played. Although the Game Master is the final arbiter of the rules, the Pathfinder RPG is a shared experience, and all of the players should contribute their thoughts when the rules are in doubt.

This question even highlights such a huge problem with our society. There is this constant "Us vs Them" in like everything around now.

Silver Crusade

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As a Paladin of Serenae, I would under no circumstances accept the surrender of something beyond punishment or redemption, such as a lich, demon, dragon, monstrosity of Lamashtu, nor certainly any worshipper or spawn of the rough beast.

My Story includes Minor RoRTL name dropping:

While working to rid the world of the Skinsaw cult, Mokmurian's fools, the minions of runeforge, and Karzoug's slaves, very few of those I offered surrender actually accepted. When they did, I can't recall what happened to all of them, it was so long ago really, but I am pretty sure I tried to ensure they were turned over to the nearest authority. In all cases our group kept their stuff, as it is the law of the land and expected from a defeated foe turned over for punishment. What do you think this is, modern day earth?

Had someone surrendered to us in the wilderness, I am not really sure what I would have suggested we do, but I am pretty sure my other allies would have overruled me and taken the items that would be most dangerous, or in some cases what they wanted.

As a paladin of Sarenrae I am honor bound to work my the allies the Dawnflower has put before me, especially given the seriousness of the threat we face. While I can disagree with them, not participate in loot splits, donate my share, I cannot cause mistrust and further strife among my allies. My allies are my life; together we rise or fall. Sarenrae has brought us together to destroy a runelord and together we will do that even if I disagree with some of their unsavory methods. Hopefully, I will earn their respect and lead them to embrace goodness, or at least defer to my wishes occasionally.

I am confident I would have passed any test put before me because I know that it is never wrong to do the right thing. I know that any situation begot by someone vile that presents a hopeless choice is hopeless, and whatever the best I can do is all the Dawnflower wants of me.

There are very specific acts that are clear cut evil. There is otherwise a lot of variation in what a Paladin would or wouldn't do based on code, justification of the situation, deity, interpretation of Golarion or regional law, etc.

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CRB + GM is right + saves rules debates for post-game

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I played a paladin trough Runelords and was in the middle of the party in terms of damage, except with Dragons, Undead, and Demons. Someone is always going to be the strong one.
If you had a max'ed archer this would be a completely different post entirely.

I also have to add that Runelords is a very paladin friendly AP in that there are not really any quandaries for the paladin already built into the AP, and I enjoyed that. Most everything is some type of monster that is beyond any hope of redemption. Book 2 is really only where it gets a little more interesting while running around Magnimar trying to figure out the mystery of the cult.

First problem: how is the paladin able to smite evil so much it is hurting the campaign? At 4th level a paladin can smite evil 2x/day. Are you letting them rest after every two encounters?

Next: if you are going to make the paladin's life hard, then you also need to work with the player, *and* make sure there is a good story reason for whatever happens, *and* make sure you understand the moral dilemma too. A paladin falling should be rare and a joint decision by the player and GM. The player should *know* that the choice they make will result in something like that, as their PC would certainly know.

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Railroads are not always bad: sometimes you need a mechanism to get from Point A to B and you don't want to make everything up in between. Railroads can get you where you need to be.

Sandboxes are not always bad: sometimes you just need to stop and stay awhile and play.

They can both be done well and they can both be done poorly.

Many/Most? of the Adventure Paths include a decent mix of both.

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So there is no mention of Aoinse coming to the realization that Amaznen no longer exists to guide her.

Since she was trained in the ways of the clergy and became a priest of Amaznen, I would think that she would be interested in what happened to her deity and what other deities exist now that she may continue to venerate. (Of course, none of this matters until after the flooded cathedral is cleared.)

We know that Amaznen's lover, Acavna also perished and so she wouldn't be an option for Aoinse.

Amaznen and Aesocar held each other in high regard and both share the Artifice domain and construct subdomain. It would seem that this is the first inclination for Aoinse after finding out that Amaznen and Acavna sacrificed themselves to lessen the impact of Earthfall. However, no mention is given to what happened to Aesocar. Does this deity still exist, even if forgotten? Perhaps Aoinse would seek to bring worship of Aesocar back to Golarion.

Other known active deities would be suitable too, except Aoinse doesn't know of them yet; perhaps Nethys takes notice of Aoinse. Though, Torag is the most closely aligned with Aoinse's beliefs from Amaznen and may be the most likely deity she is drawn to.

Also, Abadar has overlap with the Law domain, and Aoinse knows of Abadar at least as well as he was around in ancient Azlant.


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I just started reading this morning and have made it through the investigation portion. It may also be helpful to note that this book left out some other clues from the previous two books that can help the PCs.

From The Lost Outpost, there is the hidden note and the fact that the first wave ship is missing. That should at least clue them in on the fact that the colonists are not likely on this island.

If either of the final NPCs (can't remember their names) survived, then they could also recall some useful clues. I was a little surprised that they weren't mentioned here (though I suppose it is assumed that the PCs kill them).

It would also be a little surprising if none of the strix knew anything useful. If the PCs went back and talked to them, I would allow for a good Diplomacy (perhaps aided with some nice artwork) check to reveal a strix who recalls seeing a ship sail towards the nearby island from a direction that was likely Ancorato.

I think it is also worth mentioning that no one in their right mind would try and row a small, open rowboat across that distance (especially knowing a storm is coming!) unless they were desperate, hah. At a minimum, any PCs with Profession(sailor), Knowledge(Engineering), or Craft(Shipmaking/Carpentry) should quickly realize that they could rig up a make-shift mast, sail, and rudder to help them.

I do like the story so far though!

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Here are some initial tips that I have:

- Start at level 1. Skipping early levels won't do you or the players any favors in learning.

- Don't slow down the game with in depth rules issues. When something complicated comes up, make a reasonable decision and move on. Focus on the game and the story. Make a note and figure it out later and talk about it prior to the start of the next session. If you look at the Rules forum here, you will see that there are a lot of things that don't have agreement. Just establish a rule for your game and stick to it.

- When your players level up, take some time to look over their class abilities and ensure you understand them. That will head off a lot of rules complications in game.

- Do not use truly random encounters; do not run an encounter you have not prepared. If there is a chance for random encounters on a table, pre-roll or just pick good ones and prepare them. This will save hassle of reading through a random monster stat block and trying to figure out its abilities, and then getting things wrong (e.g. doh, I completely forgot about the DR5, etc.)

- Don't use XP if you are playing through an Adventure Path. There are a lot of good reasons. Some of the best are (a) you won't need to insert pointless encounters just to get PCs to level; (b) PCs won't feel the need to kill everything to get XP; (c) similar to b, they will feel more empowered to solve problems creatively, or do what their characters might actually do, without fearing missing XP; (d) you don't have to slow things down mid-game giving out XP or leveling.

- Go through the adventure and mark up DCs for everything that you think will likely come up. Common ones I do are all the Spellcraft DCs to identify items, Perception checks for things not called out in the text, etc.

- Use the Combat Pad or make note cards with various conditions, and encourage your players to do the same for bonuses they can give from spells or class abilities. That will help everyone remember what penalties/bonuses they have each time it is their turn.

- Pre-script significant NPC initial text / monologue rather than trying to wing it on the fly. Then wing it once the PCs start interacting.

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NH wrote:
Finally, I had made no mention of the roper's vulnerability to fire. Yet He Who Has Not Yet Been Named immediately started talking about exploiting that vulnerability, even though he'd failed the roll to identify the roper. For shame, He Who Has Not Yet Been Named.

This is where GM fiat automatically enters play and suddenly the roper has Resist Energy cast on him or its hit points double.

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When it is fun and provides flavor to your character.

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Ropers are one of my favorite monsters.

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Is a alchemist bomb an SU ability? Yes.
Do all SU abilities affect Incorporeal creatures? Yes.

Bombs affect Incorporeal creatures.

There is no need to make this more complicated than what is stated in the rules.

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Yeah, it seems like clustered shot pretty much broke open archery, especially with optimizing players.

Most of us don't really have time to optimize in our group, often leveling up on the fly, which @Skeld probably appreciates.

Intelligent enemies should see Hooken lay the insta-death smack down one time on an ally and then just scatter and go into guerrilla tactics, which is admittedly hard in a vault though.

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Calling people names for commenting to old threads doesn't help the community, it drives poeple away from it. Worse, If said poster made a new thread everyone would be up in arms screaming "this has been discussed so much before".

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Your Tiger example is the correct one.

Start of Combat: everyone rolls initiative
Surprise Round: Those who can act do so according to their initiative.
Normal Combat rounds then continue.

I think sometimes we've played where only those acting in the surprise round get to roll initiative, and then after the surprise round everyone else rolls initiative. This takes away your ability to make a surprise round decision with the knowledge of where you'll act with respect to the rest of the party once combat starts.

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Legacy of Fire is a good bet.

You can take your players past the final module and go with an ultimate showdown with a spawn of Rovagug, Xotani. Within the AP, inf the players fail in their goals , they will fight Xotani but they stand no chance at levels 16-17 or so .

You can read some ideas from the Final Wish GM thread. You would definitely have to fill in the gaps with a lot of levels before any direct battle was feasible; it took an army of 1000 wizards to stop the creature the first time (though presumably not all high level ). I haven't really thought about how it would go with full mythic tiers on PCs and no enhancements to Xotani though.

Also something to keep in mind is that the lore seems to indicate that they cannot be truly killed. There is some condition that will restore them to their destructive life.

Additionally, the AP sidebars and articles have lot of additional information on Rovavgug , his spawn, heralds, etc. Iirc, there are something like 6 known spawn in legend, tarrasque and Xotani being two of them.

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Well, I assume that school gets out a lot earlier here as well then. Everyone still has to put the same 180 days in. :)

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