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![]() Witch guides and witch discussion threads often wax rhapsodic about Evil Eye. I can't help but wonder if I'm looking at the same hex. Evil Eye wrote:
Let's compare: Demoralize Target wrote:
Here's the thing: as the Intimimancy guide notes, using a standard action to inflict shaken on one opponent makes you 10% of a contributor for that round. There is a 10% chance that your target will waste their standard action because of your efforts. This is a terrible return on a standard action. Intimidation becomes valuable when you can do it as a swift or free action. And yet isn't intimidation four times as efficient as Evil Eye? A knowledgeable player can mitigate the inefficiency by picking out the key stat to evil eye, but I'd hardly say it's better than shaken. You can hit AC if you want, I guess. Duration is arguably different. If the witch is willing to stagger himself he can keep the evil eye going forever. On the other hand, taking the Memorable trait makes it easy to get shaken stuck for three rounds. That covers a huge chunk of the average fight. Am I missing something here? What makes Evil Eye a worthwhile use of a standard action? ![]()
![]() What kind of resources are out there for the enterprising individual looking to make themselves as dirty of a fighter as possible? This is for an unchained rogue looking to take advantage of that inability to clear blindness that is built in to Underhanded Trick. In order to get the wonderful full attack on a blinded opponent you need to beat the CMB by 5. First question: is there any way to get an enhancement bonus here? Amulet of mighty fists, maybe? Second question: will weapon finesse give me dex to cmb (weapon finesse on unarmed strike, even?) or do I need to use agile maneuvers for that? Feats: Improved and Greater Dirty Trick, of course. Nothing else jumps out at me. Items:
Traits:
Bred for War (Human) - +1 bonus on Intimidate and a +1 bonus on your CMB. You must be at least 6 feet tall. Anything else? ![]()
![]() The cartomancer archetype does not allow you to use spell combat with your thrown weapons. It's designed for the player who hates action economy. I also like the whip a little more than you do. The key is being a half orc who gets proficiency for free (city raised trades out proficiencies you won't use for whip proficiency). If you don't want to invest in it then you have a weapon that from levels 2-5 allows you to spell combat from a distance. At low levels concentration checks are tough and fewer opponents have immunity-creating armor bonuses (obviously non-lethal immunity can be an issue). Once you get to higher levels you retire the whip and move on to your preferred weapon. If you invest in it the whip can be a fantastic debuff delivery service. If you're committed then you can use the half-orc, the half-elf (ancestral arms), or a human (extra feat). Let's take a half-orc with your strength load out, and do this:
Feats:
Spell combat with frostbite lets you make two opponents within fifteen feet shaken, fatigued, and entangled. Spell storing on the whip adds to the fun. In general it's nice for the glass cannon to be able to stand back from the action. If you're looking to deliver damage the whip is underpowered. For debuffs, though, they work great. Just depends on your focus. ![]()
![]() Just wanted to throw some love at the Unsworn Shaman archetype. I think its raw power level is lower than the vanilla Shaman (assuming you lose the level 2 and 10 hexes) but in my opinion the sheer flexibility makes for a unique play experience. The Archetype:
The base Shaman picks a spirit at level one and sticks with that as their main spirit for the duration. They get a wandering spirit at level four that allows them to swap out spells and spirit powers, and a wandering hex at six that lets them swap out the one hex. By contrast, the Unsworn Shaman gets:
She can make temporary bonds with two minor spirits (thus gaining two hexes) at 4th level, and with one additional minor spirit (and hex) every 4 levels thereafter. This ability replaces spirit and alters hex. Wandering Spirit: At 2nd level, the unsworn shaman gains access to the wandering spirit class feature. At 10th level, she gains the abilities listed in the greater version of her wandering spirit. At 18th level, she gains the abilities listed in the true version of her wandering spirit. Additionally, at 6th level, she also gains a second wandering spirit, gaining the abilities listed in the greater version of that spirit at 14th level, and the abilities listed in the true version at 20th level. This ability alters wandering spirit and replaces wandering hex. -- So, in exchange for delayed access to some class features you get a lot of flexibility. One flex hex at level 1, a wandering spirit at level 2, another flex hex at 4, and another wandering spirit at six. The writing is a little unclear about the number of hexes you end up with. Basically the question is when it says "alters hex" does it mean that the entire hex feature is replaced with the wandering spirit hexes (so you only get hexes at 1, 4, 8, etc) or does it only alter the levels mentioned (so you get flex hexes at 1, 4, 8, etc, and static hexes at 2 and 10). I think it could legitimately go either way but it's not something I would press a GM over. Just flag the ambiguity and live with the ruling. The Plan
Shamwow:
Human Shaman (Unsworn Shaman)
STR: 18 (racial +2) DEX: 12 CON: 12 INT: 11 WIS: 14 CHA: 10 Feats:
Traits and Familiars: personal preference. I'd have a hard time turning down +6 to initiative, myself. Weapon: Longspear Armor: Breastplate (eventually) If you want the stats for melee you're going to have a hard time with the save or suck hexes. Fortunately you can focus on buffing your party and not have to worry about saves. The basic idea is to get everybody in your party on the fortune reroll train while you do your best reach cleric impersonation. Most GMs will let you chant until a cutscene, and it's actually a little uncommon to have fight -> cutscene -> fight within the same day. If you're giving everybody constant rerolls and also personally spearing bad guys, I'd say you're pulling your weight. You will be able to pursue this basic strategy while also enjoying complete flexibility as to your third hex and (at level two) spirit patron. At level four you get another hex to play with. I'll run through a few of the possibilities. There are of course some solid witch hexes. Evil Eye obviously works well with the all-chanting strategy. Soothsayer can promote action economy by allowing you to pre-buff your party with Fortune. Flight is always good. Slumber isn't being optimized for here, but it's still a free save or die. The base shaman gets a nice buff in Fury (+2 morale bonus on attack rolls and a +2 resistance bonus on saving throws against fear, extends with Chant). If you're really going all in on buffing you could do a lot worse. The wandering spirit will open up the world of spirit hexes: Water Sight: The shaman sees through fog and mist without penalty as long as there is enough light to otherwise allow her to see normally. Obscuring Mist is on your spell list. If you wake up feeling like getting your Batman on, all you have to do is tell your GM. Just don't forget to go down to the market and pick up some Gravelly Tonic before combat starts. Arcane Enlightenment: The shaman's native intelligence grants her the ability to tap into arcane lore. The shaman can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman spells she can prepare. To cast these spells she must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell's level, but the saving throw DCs of these spells are based on her Wisdom rather than Intelligence. When she casts these spells, they are treated as divine rather than arcane. Each time the shaman gains a level after taking this hex, she can choose to replace one of these spells for a new spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list. Feel like playing god for the day? Yoink the tool you need off the wizard's spell list. Taking the Lore Spirit also gets you access to an off brand Studied Target in Monstrous Insight (standard action to do a knowledge check and get +2 to hit and AC against a particular creature for one minute). Hitting things is good. Heaven's Leap: The shaman is adept at creating tiny tears in the fabric of space, and temporarily stitching them together to reach other locations through a limited, one-way wormhole. As a standard action, the shaman can designate herself or a single ally that she can see who is within 30 feet of her. She can move that creature as if it were subject to jester's jaunt. Once targeted by this hex, the ally cannot be the target of this hex again for 24 hours. Teleport your barbarian friend into position for a full attack, or blip your wizard buddy out of danger. Mammoth's Hide: The shaman can touch a willing ally and cause its skin to thicken and sprout thick, shaggy fur. The creature gains a +2 enhancement bonus to natural armor and resistance 5 to cold for 10 minutes. If you are truly committed to buffing your pals this could be on your list. Doesn't get extended with chant but does last a good long time. Crystal Sight: The shaman sees through stone, earth, or sand as easily as if it were transparent crystal. Her gaze can penetrate a number of feet equal to her shaman level (or 1/12th this thickness of metal). The shaman can use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to her shaman level, but these rounds do not need to be consecutive. Could be handy if you're adventuring somewhere with stone walls. This hex illustrates the power of the Unsworn Shaman early on--the vanilla shaman can't flex into this hex until level 6. If he wants to get it before then he has to commit to the otherwise underwhelming Stone Spirit. Cauldron and Fetish are available if your campaign allows for crafting to allow you to make potions and wondrous items in exchange for a total investment of zero (0) feats. You are also of course customizing your spell list by changing out wandering spirits every day. You can use the human FCB to get spells off of the cleric list as needed. Alternative Plan If you want to go in a more casty direction, you could do a witch-like load out of 7/14/12/12/18/14 and go on a grand tour of the available save or suck hexes. The Unsworn Shaman can go way deeper into witch hexes (one through extra hex, then one in each of your flex hexes) compared to the normal shaman. This kind of stat array would also make it a lot more viable to flex into the healer role as needed. Bottom Line A vanilla shaman who focuses on exploiting any particular Spirit will do a better job of it than the Unsworn Shaman. However, the Unsworn Shaman can be built into a reasonably capable framework that retains a unique level of flexibility. You can practically rebuild your character every time they go to sleep. You might not ever be the most optimized shaman for any particular situation, but you'll pretty much always be able to find a way to contribute to any given party in any given situation. Did I miss any good Shaman tricks? Is there a vanilla Shaman build that blows the Unsworn Shaman out of the water in every possible situation? I'd love to see more discussion of the archetype that goes beyond counting the total number of hexes available. ![]()
![]() Torbyne wrote: Looking at traits more generally in comparison to feats, it just occurred to me that there are traits that do what feats try to and do it better in some instances. Case in point; Intimidating Prowess and Bruising Intellect. Perhaps some of this is an attempt to change the dynamic of options? Traits do provide a better option for something from a quirk of upbringing rather than a result of training which seems to be the main gist of feats. It would be interesting to see a designer chime in or write a blog post on how option philosophy has shifted since the CRB was published and new sub systems were added to the game. I think the balancing factor with Intimidating Prowess is that it stacks with your CHA bonus instead of replacing it. Of course for somebody who dumped CHA this is even more of a benefit to the trait. BTW, here's another balancing rule of thumb: how many people take extra traits right off the bat to get access to all of these overpowered traits? ![]()
![]() NobodysHome wrote:
I'm with you so far. Now, how about the part where the GM says "On second thought, X is allowed (but I'll secretly hate you forever)"? ![]()
![]() Imbicatus wrote: It's not a question of the +1 bonus, it's a question of the resource cost. A half-orc can get a +1 bonus to all reflex, fortitude, and will saves from all sources for the cost of a trait. A human can get a +1 bonus to all reflex, fortitude, and will saves from all sources for the cost of three feats. A human gets a bonus feat. If they use that feat on extra traits and pick up deft dodger (combat), indomitable faith (religion), and forlorn (social) they can get +1 to all saves as well. This idea that all half orcs have it, therefore it needs to go is really blinkered. You could say the same thing for a lot of feats. Other than Power Attack, what can you tell me about your barbarian? Other than Shocking Grasp, what's in your magus's spellbook? A design goal of always nerfing the best available option is self-defeating. ![]()
![]() The trait gives +1 to all saves in one specific situation. Other traits give +1 to individual saves in all situations. If you're going to be a half orc then fate's favored is obviously better but there are plenty of circumstances where the other traits are better. More to the point, does it really break the game if somebody is getting precisely one more number on the die that lets them make their save? Some people's senses are so finely tuned that they'll smell cheese if a fighter shows up with strength as his highest stat... ![]()
![]() There's also just the basic courtesy point. I guess this marks me out as an old man but when I'm hanging out with my friends the point of the evening is to hang out with my friends. I can surf the web on my own time. It's rude to do it when I have somebody there in front of me IRL trying to talk. Being in a structured game type environment just magnifies things. ![]()
![]() Well, never mind. That was pretty exquisite timing. I checked UC for errata this morning and only saw the first -> second errata. Guess I should have reloaded it before I posted. I think FCT has now been nerfed from a potentially powerful niche option to something you take purely because it fits some storytelling purpose. Nothing about it seemed so powerful to me that it seemed to mandate that kind of treatment. Oh well. ![]()
![]() You can also have fun defining the remedies. In the event that you breach the contract they're entitled to fifty GP, while in the event that they breach you're entitled to specific enforcement of the soul collection. You also want to structure the deal so that they give you their soul in exchange for five GP now, and untold wealth/infinite power to be delivered later. Make clear that the only condition that would excuse their performance is if you fail to pay the initial five GP. So at the end of the day you get their soul for fifty-five GP. (IRL you aren't allowed to impose punishments as part of contract enforcement... but you are certainly allowed to reduce the available remedies. Courts won't enforce sham bargains, but as long as there is at least some value on both sides of the exchange they won't invalidate a contract as lacking consideration.) ![]()
![]() You'll want to include a merger clause, so your You'll also want to borrow a trick from Microsoft and provide that all disputes should be settled by binding arbitration. The arbitration process, of course, will be tilted in your favor. Sample merger clause: This Agreement, along with any exhibits, appendices, addenda, schedules, and amendments hereto, encompasses the entire agreement of the parties, and supersedes all previous understandings and agreements between the parties, whether oral or written. The parties hereby acknowledge and represent, by affixing their hands and seals hereto, that said parties have not relied on any representation, assertion, guarantee, warranty, collateral contract or other assurance, except those set out in this Agreement, made by or on behalf of any other party or any other person or entity whatsoever, prior to the execution of this Agreement. The parties hereby waive all rights and remedies, at law or in equity, arising or which may arise as the result of a party’s reliance on such representation, assertion, guarantee, warranty, collateral contract or other assurance, provided that nothing herein contained shall be construed as a restriction or limitation of said party’s right to remedies associated with the gross negligence, willful misconduct or fraud of any person or party taking place prior to, or contemporaneously with, the execution of this Agreement. Arbitration: Any dispute, controversy or claim arising out of or relating in any way to the agreement including without limitation any dispute concerning the construction, validity, interpretation, enforceability or breach of the agreement, shall be exclusively resolved by binding arbitration upon a Party’s submission of the dispute to arbitration. The demand for arbitration shall be made within a reasonable time after the claim, dispute or other matter in question has arisen, and in no event shall it be made after one year from when the aggrieved party knew or should have known of the controversy, claim, dispute or breach. This agreement to arbitrate shall be specifically enforceable. A Party may apply to any court with jurisdiction for interim or conservatory relief, including without limitation a proceeding to compel arbitration. The arbitration shall be conducted by one arbitrator. If the Parties are not able to agree upon the selection of an arbitrator, within twenty days of commencement of an arbitration proceeding by service of a demand for arbitration, the arbitrator shall be selected by [an organization you secretly control] in accordance with the terms of this agreement. The arbitration shall be conducted in your hometown. The cost of the arbitration proceeding and any proceeding in court to confirm or to vacate any arbitration award, as applicable (including, without limitation, reasonable attorneys’ fees and costs), shall be borne by the unsuccessful party, as determined by the arbitrator, and shall be awarded as part of the arbitrator’s award. It is specifically understood and agreed that any party may enforce any award rendered pursuant to the arbitration provisions of this Section by bringing suit in any court of competent jurisdiction. The parties agree that the arbitrator shall have authority to grant injunctive or other forms of equitable relief to any party. This Section shall survive the termination or cancellation of this Agreement. Remember: It doesn't really matter what all the fiddly detail bits of the contract say, as long as you control the person who interprets them. ![]()
![]() Melkiador wrote: Smelling salts actually would make you conscious for 6 seconds until you auto fail your stabilization check. But you'd still be dead and couldn't benefit from healing. So you can wake somebody up and ask a quick question? Sounds like Pathfinder characters are only mostly dead. ![]()
![]() While I understand the hesitation to multi-class, a couple levels of Brawler can make for a nice melee debuffer. Mystic Facepuncher: Martial flexibility goes with the wandering spirit class feature like peanut butter and jelly. Once you hit level 8 you can swap out your "finisher" hex for foes where slumber is inappropriate on a daily basis (I like Enveloping Void, but Starburn and Bone Lock have their selling points as well). If you go for Spirit Talker at level nine you'll be able to swap out punch-hexes any time you have ten minutes free.
Half-orc Brawler 2, Shaman x
Alt racial traits: Sacred tattoo Traits: Magical lineage (frostbite), Fate's favored STR 16
Brawler 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Enforcer
Key gear: Brawling armor, amulet of mighty fists: cruel Brawler's flurry is also very nice for making Hex Strike work. Ideal Combat:
Pre-combat: Cast (rime) frostbite, use martial flexibility for hex strike: slumber.
Combat begins: charge (or move) up to enemy, punch them. If you hit, intimidate... they should now be shaken, fatigued, evil eyed (saving throws), and entangled. The entanglement will end before your next turn, but it stays in effect for their attack. Your next round: Brawler's flurry. Punch #1 will render them sickened, and entangled. Punch #2 will deliver slumber against a -4 or -6 to saves (shaken, sickened, and evil eye are each -2). Total resource expenditure: one first level spell and one of four uses of martial flexibility. Being behind in caster levels does hurt, but compare it to the magus. They get second level spells at 4, third level spells at 7, and fourth level spells at 10. With the two level dip in Brawler, a Shaman gets second level spells at 5, third level spells at 7, and fourth level spells at 9. The brawler levels also give a net +2/+2 to the Shaman's bad saves. I think this build gives a path to participate in melee in a way that maintains most of the flavor of a shaman. ![]()
![]() Roll up a Psychic from the Occult Adventures book. Buy a wand of floating disk and have your wizard buddy deploy it for your levitating wheelchair. Dig up a Patrick Stewart figurine for your miniature. Also, thematically, keep your dex high but impose a move speed of 5. A wheelchair bound person can still have nimble fingers. ![]()
![]() Sorry about the double post, but I went through and collected the spells that meet the "better than a wand" criteria. I figured it would be helpful to have it all in one place. 0-level spells: Acid splash. Saves you a swift action when you get caught out empty handed. Also saves a slot in your spring loaded wrist sheathe. All other cantrips can be put on a wand, unless you're really spiking INT to try to actually force monsters to fail their saves, which seems like a losing game. First-level spells: The candidates here are spells that have relevant scaling effects or durations based on caster level. Note that most of the scaling effects are capped at 5. Scaling damage:
Burning hands (1d4 per level fire damage, cone) -- Ok, but rogues don't have access to the tricks that really max this out. Also no sneak attack.
Magic missile (1d4 + 1 force damage, additional missile at 3, 5, 7, and 9) -- A decent utility choice. Scaling damage, always hits, and force damage is nice. No sneak attack, though. Ray of Enfeeblement (1d6 + 1 per two caster levels in STR damage) -- Divide it in half since monsters will always make the save. Again, no sneak attack. Still, not a bad option to have around if you don't have crippling strike. Touch of Gracelessness (1d6 + 1 per two caster levels in DEX damage) -- Divide it in half since monsters will always make the save. Again, no sneak attack. More specialized than Enfeeblement, and probably less effective than a Tanglefoot bag. Corrosive Touch (1d4 per level acid damage) -- Melee touch attack. We're now getting sneak attack. Compared to snowball you have less fear of elemental resistance and can get sneak attack from flanking. Snowball (1d6 per level cold damage) -- Ranged touch attack. Staggering isn't going to happen, but this is still the gold standard for ranged spells. Nice way to start a surprise round if you're empty handed. Scaling utility:
Keep Watch: Every two levels lets you affect another creature. Being able to keep the whole party up all night is cool and I wish I could get access to this spell IRL, but I think one wand of this would last you most of your PFS career.
Thunderstomp: A distant trip attempt that lets you use your rogue level instead of your BAB and your INT modifier instead of your STR. This actually solves a lot of problems if you really want to make a rogue trip build. Enough problems that it's worth the effort? I don't know. Anticipate peril: A +1 to initiative per caster level. It does stack with Heightened Awareness, so I guess if you really want to go first this could be your huckleberry. Windy Escape: This is one where a wand really wouldn't work. Can you take this in PFS without a boon? If so, this is a nice survivability boost with good action economy. Sometimes the duration increase from an increase in caster level can become relevant. I believe it is not relevant in minutes/level spells. Any given combat is usually over in one minute, and it's tough to string two combats together in 5-10 minutes if you're doing any kind of post-combat healing and searching. Duration is more important on the high and low ends. On the high end it can turn spells into all day sources of utility. On the low end a spell measured in rounds/level might be useless coming out of a wand for one level, but quite handy if you get 5-10 rounds of it. The longer duration spells are much more enticing for the bookish rogue, who can switch to one, cast it, then switch to a combat-oriented spell--all in the time it takes the wizard to prepare his spells for the day. Long term spells:
Alarm: Who needs a wizard to set up a protective ward? Other people, that's who. This lasts 2 hours per level so if you have a leftover "spell slot" at the end of the day you might as well use it making your campground secure.
Ant Haul: Calculating encumbrance is no fun. Also, if you're doing something wacky with a mount this spell is often a key cog in the machine. Getting it for 2 hours per level will save a lot of wand charges. Floating Disk: Why walk from point A to point B like a sucker? Depending on how your GM manages the things, riding one of these into combat could give you a height bonus to your attack rolls, if nothing else. If he lets you spend your move action to move the disk around you can use it to get your party barbarian into position for a full attack. Again, getting it for an hour a level means you will have it when you need it without burning through a bunch of wand charges. Mage Armor: Eh, you can wear regular armor. Maybe if you manage to spike your dex super high this would be worth it. Or if you really dumped strength and your GM actually checks encumbrance so you need to get your weight down to the minimum. Unseen servant: Trap detector, decoy, all around gofer... what's not to like? At one hour/level this can be a very handy use of one of your Major Magic castings. Comprehend languages: 10 minutes per level seems more convenient than 10 minutes. Still, how often does this even come up? I bet if you started with a wand of comprehend languages and set out to use it whenever it would be helpful you could get through your whole Pathfinder career without exhausting the thing. Honestly, a scroll or two is the most you need. Heightened awareness: This is pretty sweet. +2 to perception and knowledge, and you can cash it in for +4 to initiative when intiative gets rolled. 10 min/level duration means you're almost always going to pop the initiative bonus. OTOH the flat 10 minutes is going to work out for you 95% of the time. Nice spell, though. Short duration:
Vanish: 1 round/level invisibility? That seems useful.
Animate Rope: Cute, but a tanglefoot bag is almost always better. Snapdragon Fireworks: I guess this lets you use your move action to attack? If you could finagle your way into getting sneak attack out of the fireworks it could be good, but I'm not seeing it. 1d4 / 2 damage does not seem like a fair trade for a move action to me. OTOH the range is crazy high, so maybe there are some edge cases where it would be useful. Ray of enfeeblement and touch of gracelessness also measure duration in rounds per level. To sum up: Corrosive Touch and Snowball are damage champions. Corrosive touch if you're getting sneak attack through flanking, Snowball if you have other plans. The big utility of both other than raw damage is that you get to attack your enemy's touch AC instead of regular AC. Vanish and Windy Escape are utility kings. Windy Escape is better if you're taking front line duties, while Vanish offers a little more flexibility and classic sneaky rogue flavor. Thunderstomp could be the foundation for a pretty cool trip build. It's not going to be fantastic to just throw in to a character but if you built around it you might wind up somewhere good. In addition to those spells, a bookish rogue will probably want to collect for his spellbook:
I mean, you might as well gather a bunch of other stuff since first level spells are pretty cheap, but these are the ones that seem particularly well suited for using in your major magic slot instead of buying a wand. ![]()
![]() gamer-printer wrote:
Graves and treasure hoards, yes. Bodies, no. Indiana Jones is the same way. He robs plenty of temples. But remember when he shot the sword wielding guy who failed his roll on his dazzling display? Did he go through the guys' pockets afterwards or take that sweet sword? I thought the OP was pretty clearly aimed at the very typical Pathfinder scenario of killing somebody and then looting their corpse. That scenario is just about unique to RPGs. The one time it happened on screen in LotR (Isildur snatching the one ring) it led to massive death and destruction. ![]()
![]() Is the goal that you will kind of flit around the battlefield, doing fly by attacks on people who will then be unable to close with you and do damage? As Owen suggests, one problem is that you'll have to figure out some way to avoid attacks of opportunity. If you aren't locked in on taking the divine archetype you could get there with hunter tactics + escape route. The other problem is that 11th level monsters are pretty mobile. Is there somebody on your team who would pin them in place? If so, why do you need to fly by instead of, e.g., flanking? Traditionally I would actually expect the barbarian to be in the pin down role, culminating with Come and Get Me at 12.
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