Maxing out Dirty Trick


Advice


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What kind of resources are out there for the enterprising individual looking to make themselves as dirty of a fighter as possible? This is for an unchained rogue looking to take advantage of that inability to clear blindness that is built in to Underhanded Trick. In order to get the wonderful full attack on a blinded opponent you need to beat the CMB by 5.

First question: is there any way to get an enhancement bonus here? Amulet of mighty fists, maybe?

Second question: will weapon finesse give me dex to cmb (weapon finesse on unarmed strike, even?) or do I need to use agile maneuvers for that?

Feats: Improved and Greater Dirty Trick, of course. Nothing else jumps out at me.

Items:
Ioun stone: Dusty Rose Prism Wayfinder resonance (+2 CMB/CMD +1 AC insight)
Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver (+2 untyped to chosen dirty trick)
Belt of Superior Maneuvers (+x enhancement bonus, 3x day)
Belt of Incredible Dexterity (+dex)
Burglar's Buckler (+2 competence)
Tattoo, Serpentine (free dirty trick 3x/day on successful attack)
Cracked pale green prism (+1 competence)

Traits:
Equality for All (Andoran) - +2 bonus to your CMB and your CMD when facing opponents who are at least two sizes larger than you. Hilarious on a reduced halfling but probably self defeating.

Bred for War (Human) - +1 bonus on Intimidate and a +1 bonus on your CMB. You must be at least 6 feet tall.

Anything else?


while it isn't specifically rogue.. 2 levels of bounty hunter Slayer can get you a bundle of joy, well I think so.


You can use a weapon to do a dirty trick if you can get the GM to agree (giving you enhancement bonuses, weapon focus, etc.) but it is intentionally left vague. Here's the source on that.

If you get the GM to agree that specific Dirty Trick is using a weapon (and it's finessable) then you only need Weapon Finesse. If the GM says no, you need Agile Maneuvers.

As for feats, how did you miss Quick Dirty Trick? Open with a Dirty Trick on a full attack.

There's some other ones, Underhanded Teamwork isn't much but the Improved version lets you and a buddy double Dirty Trick someone. With unremoveable blindness you can even guarantee they can't remove the second condition. Superior Dirty Trick and Dirty Trick Master come on way too late though, but you might have a use for them if you really want to hyperspecialize (I don't recommend it though).


Underhanded Trick lets you cheat the pre-reqs for Greater Dirty Trick but to get Quick Dirty Trick you have to pay the full feat/Int tax, which is a little steep on a Rogue build. The effect is really sweet though.

I'm not trying to do the Dirty Trick equivalent of the full lockdown Trip build. I mostly want to get a consistent sneak attack even when my flanking buddies are missing.


Dirty Fighting from the Dirty Tricks Handbook is a good early feat, as are a lot of things there.


The Sneaky Maneuver rogue talent comes to mind. Take a penalty to hit and do a maneuver in place of Sneak Attack damage.

Dirty Critical Hit is something to build towards at later levels.

Kitsune Style lets you dirty trick on a charge and apply two conditions at once.

Quick Dirty Trick lets you sub an attack for a dirty trick.

Improved and Greater Dirty Trick let you stick your conditions for longer.


I was under the impression that Sneaky Maneuver is not available for URogues.

Silver Crusade

As Zwordsman said a bit further up, two levels of Bounty Hunter archetype for Slayer will essentially give you Sneaky Maneuver... but better. The dip gives full BAB progression, you get a bonus to your CMB instead of a -2 penalty to your attack, and it's a free action instead of using your swift action to pull off the dirty trick. The only downside is that it only works on a studied target which means you would need to give up a move action to activate at the start of the fight.


Another key feat: Dirty Trick Master, from Bastards of Golarion. Not available until you have a BAB of +11, alas. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dirty-trick-master-combat

Here's a post by the creator of that feat on building a Dirty Tricker:

http://taking10.blogspot.ae/2014/12/a-pathfinder-build-for-dirty-trick.html


i love skilking slayer .
also , i alwyas wanted to make a 1/2 orc, skulking slayer 2, low templer 2, cavalier hound master X with bboon companion.

your dog entangle , you add dirty tricks with 2 weapon figthing.
every crit = effect.
add smite if needed.
add more effects like enforcer and more .

Liberty's Edge

The Vexing dodger is billed as a climb on giants archetype, but the dirty tricks can get REALLY nasty if you have multiple attacks.

Additionally, whenever the vexing dodger hits a larger foe with a melee sneak attack, she can choose to forgo the sneak attack bonus damage and instead attempt make a dirty trick combat maneuver as a swift action. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.

So if you have multiple attacks with an unchained vexing dodger like my little bundle of fluffy death here, you can blind them with the first attack and go to town on them with the rest. So after a round the schmuck winds up blind and with a -4 to hit you and a -2 to hit your friends.


Dirtiest fighter? Eldritch guardian.

Cause what is dirtier than double teaming every single opponent you face?

Ok, the basic idea- eldritch guardian gives you a familiar, and that familiar shares in all your combat feats, which can double your action economy with them. Grab a mauler familiar (brings familiar up to medium size, gives them plenty of str bonuses), and they can do fine for CMB. Foxes and goats are preferred, since they get some of the higher STR scores, starting at str 16 at level 3, and basically getting a scaling bonus from there that becomes comparable to rage at the end.

So you have your familiar, and then you want to eventually get dirty trick master. That feat allows you to make the status condition worse when the enemy is already suffering from your dirty tricks. So have your familiar do sickened, and then you can do nauseated- BAM- now, the enemy can't even do the standard action needed to get rid of the dirty trick. They are out of it for what? 1d4 rounds?

Also note- eldritch guardian is also great since some teamwork feats are combat feats as well. Coordinated charge basically lets you do a charge as an immediate action when your bunny charges at their face first. Since you moved next to an enemy outside of your turn, you will likely be able to full attack that enemy when your next turn comes around. PSEUDO POUNCE, with an extra charge attack in there. All at level 10.


How good does your CMB have to be to make things worthwhile? Some random internet spreadsheet gives median monster CMD as:

CR1: 13
CR2: 15
CR3: 17
CR4: 20
CR5: 22
CR6: 24
CR7: 26
CR8: 28
CR9: 31
CR10: 32

Just to give some context, I was hoping to add dirty trick functionality to this guy:

Stabby McNutpunch
Halfling Unchained Rogue (Rake, Scout)

Traits:
Reactionary, Extremely Fashionable

Alt racial trait: shiftless

Str: 6
Dex: 19
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 14

Feats:
1: Agile maneuvers
2: Rogue Talent: underhanded trick
3: Taunt
4: Rogue Talent: Weapon Focus (cestus)
5: Dazzling Display
6: Rogue Talent: (Bleeding sneak)
7: Greater Dirty Trick
8: Rogue Talent: Combat trick: Shatter Defenses

Key gear:
Masterwork tool (combat taunt bluff), cracked magenta ion stone (bluff)

Gauntlets of skilled maneuver (dirty trick), Belt of incredible dexterity, dusty rose prism, Serpentine tattoo

The basic idea here is to act as a combat debuffer. If I'm reading my WBL table right then spending roughly half my WBL on combat buffs then the swag purchase list will look something like:

3: Cracked magenta ion stone, serpentine tattoo
5: Gauntlets of skilled maneuver
7: Belt of incredible dexterity
8: Dusty rose prism ion stone

So the CMB would be:
3: 7 (2 BAB + 4 dex -1 size + 2 feat)
5: 11 (3 BAB + 5 dex - 1 size + 2 feat + 2 gauntlets)
7: 16 (5 BAB + 6 dex - 1 size + 4 feat + 2 gauntlets)
8: 19 (6 BAB + 6 dex - 1 size + 4 feat + 2 gauntlets + 2 resonance)

So hitting a same-CR monster with a dirty trick will take a roll of:
3: 9 for success, 14 for extended blind
5: 11 for success, 16 for extended blind
7: 10 for success, 15 for extended blind
8: 9 for success, 14 for extended blind

I guess those numbers are ok for a backup plan. It does feel kind of disappointing to spend that much effort only to get a coin flip chance of success. When everything is rolling the action economy from the tattoo is pretty sweet.


you forgot buffs...
bard, cleric and more..


Look into the Surprise Maneuver feat. Sure, you have to be already flanking/denying Dex for it to work, but a bonus to your CMB to the tune of your amount of Sneak Attack dice does what a feat really ought to do: Provide a bonus that scales with levels.

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