Xenophon's page

Karelzarath wrote:

Aberzombie wrote:

I despise Eberron, and so don't even consider it worthy of being in this discussion. I can't explain it, because I'm not really sure why. I just do. Chalk it up to insanity.

Ah, company at the asylum. ;) I dislike Eberron because it's not "D&D" to me. Trains do not belong in my D&D. Warforged are just a ridiculous concept and very outside of what I consider fantasy. And so on.

My sentiments exactly. I think Eberron tries too hard to be different in order to set itself apart and to try to look creative. Instead it falls far short of the mark and only achieves "weird."

I have to agree with it just being too weird. It's like they tried to turn a square into a diamond but instead of shining, it fell over and is now a funny parallelogram. Although warforged are one of the few concepts that does interest me. The whole paradox of a living construct.

I love novels set in the realms, but for some reason I just don't like gaming in the realms.... Call me strange.

You are perfectly normal as I have seen it. I'm sorry for the insult.

All evidence thus far points to no conversions at the moment. WotC keeps saying that 4th is a completely different animal and conversions will be way too hard. We will have to wait and see I guess..

There has to be some kind of conversion. 2 adventure paths worth of creatures kinda precludes that.

I've said it in a different thread, but it bears reiteration: if Paizo goes to the 4e OGL, I'll buy the core books. And that is the *only* money WotC is getting from me in regards to 4e, end of story. And the only money from my gamer friends, from what we've all discussed. I do *not* like being lied to like this.

If that's the case why not just buy a ream of paper, they're like 10 bucks for a quality thicker paper and then just print out the SRD. It's not like Paizo can include any monsters in the adventure that's in the MM but not in the SRD. So you have all the rules and monster stats and don't have to worry about giving your monies to a company that bothers you so much.

Home brew: covers either a simple night of blowing stuff up, running goodman modules in a row, or trying to make my own home world. I like the break from the rich history to just 'save the girl, kill the creature.'

Take the treasure. Can't ever forget take the treasure.

When it comes to Eberron, Realms, and Greyhawk;Eberron is the new girl who gets the shiny gifts, Forgotten Realms is the old girlfriend with two black eyes who can't walk away, and Greyhawk is the girl WotC knocked up but doesn't call or write anymore.

That does seem about the gist of it. I like your analogies. Even better than mine. Certainly funnier.

There is Another.... White-Wolf.

Funny thing about white wolf. Why you should be careful what you wish for. Their fans begged them to fix the rules for game intercompatibility and then when they did those same fans abandoned them. Apparently they didn't like the delivery.

Let's put it this way: I'm a geek. An internet-savvy geek. That site, at this point in time, makes my head hurt. I can't possibly imagine taking the time to decipher its mysteries.

I'd rather spend time writing emails to old gaming buddies.

Or better yet - let's all start trading Pokemon cards.

I have have two copies of the original charmander ... whatchyu gimmie for one?

And this Gleemax business... sign of the Apocalypse. Mark my words. End of gaming as we know it.

Or the revolution. I hope for the simple sustainability of the market a revolution. I fear however you may be correct.

I want to get in on the playtesting. Not because I give a damn what the rule sets are and want in on the inside, but because I want it to not suck. I want to test every possible character combination I can come up with until it sunders the rules like your windshield hitting a mack truck. Then find out how to bring the rules back around so your windshield looks unscratched. I want to wring the hell out of the mechanics until the dish rag bleeds copius red. Just so that in 3 years we're not going to be screaming at each other over the 4.5 upgrade. So that we can waste our money on adventure supplements, sodas, and Con tickets not a whole new set of core books because we were all standing around whining about the new edition, is it good or is it bad(good with bobby brown sucked without him). Instead of wanting to make sure its a quality product. I have a weekly gaming group with minutae skeptics and rules lawyers and guys with the distinct ability to.. how should I put it... creatively rule bend(or abuse depending on ones perspective)?

First things first.
Blackdragon. Calling me an eberron(sic) person to my face would likely end up with one of us seriously hurt, that's really how much I detest that setting. I agree that it seems like they are shoving it down my throat as well but also mind you while I am ambivilous towards FR as a setting (It's just not my style) I feel as if it too is being crammed down my throat.

And then
Wormysqueue and Shem. Thanks that's what I wanted to know. What are other peoples take on what they see played all the time. I'm not talking about what people like, but what they actually play. I've taken part in over a dozen DnD campaigns with just as many DM's across the last decade and never once has one been in FR, and not that I'm so opposed to one it's just never happened or been approached. However, many of the players I gamed with, loved the FR setting, but just for reading the books. I can understand this because DnD isn't even my favorite roleplaying game, hell it doesn't even make the top 5. Yet I can't get a group of people together to play anything besides it so I game what I can(I move too much as do those around me... so goes the military life). Getting together with a group of people having a good time is what I'm there for anyways. Hell in ten years all I can find is a bunch of 9th graders jumping up and down about the new release of 8th edition and the new core eberron setting then I will have to choke down that silty chalky taste in the back of my throat and just game on.

So that is point of my whole initial tirade. I want to know what you as individuals see played, not what people like but what they actually sit down and play. I don't care how much you think the setting blah blahblahblah is the greatest setting ever imagined or how much all the other game systems are for gumbies who can't recognize how much they suck. I'm not curious what your opinion is, I couldn't care less. I play what I play and spend my money on what I want and don't give a crap what you think of it and in all sincerity expect the same from me to you. I want to know your perspective. What people actually play as you have seen it over the last several years. When you walk into a game store and look at the bulletin board for DMs or gamers wanted; what games and settings are being asked for? On the weekly/monthly game schedule spot what's actually up there and what do people really show up for or are juiced about and anticipating? I want the sate of gaming as you see it through your eyes. Any attempts at objectivity would always be appreciated.

Mathew morris- as much as I think who ever put marshmallows into ice cream is a pure genious somehow when it's compared to eberron(oh it's one b) I just can't help but think someone added barbeque sauce to my serving of it. I have a sensitive stomach. :)

I know its going to cause problems among the LG people, who are, in many cases, admirably dedicated to their setting. This had to be a blow to them.

That having been said . . . what do they gain from saying FR is the most popular setting if it isn't? They own all of their previous settings, and if one of them was more popular that FR, they could publish it instead of the Realms.

I don't see any particular agenda that would be advanced if they conspriatorially convinced everyone that the Realms is the most popular setting while trying to keep the other settings "down."

Heck, as a FR Realms fan, I don't always fathom why R A Salvatore, of all of the authors that have written in the setting, is the most popular, but when they say he is, I don't doubt it. Personally I think Elaine Cunningham should be the "big gun" of the setting, but no matter how much I can argue the merits of her work, RAS sells better.

Saying Salvatore is the most popular author makes sense to me even though I don't read any of his books I don't think he's a great author but I see plenty of people reading them, what I don't see is people playing FR. Though somehow it's the most popular? I don't know what they stand to gain by saying this other than some possibilities of royalties payments or some such things. Or maybe because they can get more novels sales, by getting more people involved into the setting, and with the largest library of books published for a single setting that makes it a viable position to take.

It's not a conspiracy theory more of a question of how they justify the statement. Quite frankly it's a credibility issue, and from a company with a very long string of credibility problems.

Brenigin wrote:

The "Living..." concept debuted in the Forgotten Realms with the RPGA's Living City. It's not like it doesn't have a solid claim to it...

Plus it lasted longer... I think. Didn't it start in the mid-80s and end in 2000?

Actually I believe that claim gets to go to Torg being the first "Living" campaign.

I believe you are correct with LC being longer running than LG, but then why couldn't it generate the player response like LG did in so short a time?

Over all I don't care which one gets corporate support as I can take my dollars elsewhere (there's plenty of others in the sea) or just keep playing my homebrews of Greyhawk.

What bothers me is that it comes off as if they're trying to sell me something by the apples to oranges method. They don't support Greyhawk with novels or any supplements besides the notebook of updates called the Greyhawk journal. So because they don't sell anything beside FR and Ebberron and FR makes more sales than Ebberron that they are using that to justify FR being the more popular campaign setting, where as my experience with people who actually play DnD runs severely contrary to that being the case. It's as if they are just dead set on Forcing FR down everyones throat and throwing Greyhawk out with the wash.

Sales of novels doesn't make a campaign setting popular, as I know dozens of people who read the FR novels but have absolutely no desire to play DnD even in the FR setting but they consumately buy every FR novel written. Then I also know people who read every FR novel who do play but not in FR. What's popular in novel format doesn't seem to be popular in play. Now this is all just based on my experiences with people and it's not like I've done extensive research and polling, it's just one guys perspective. I'm not bashing forgotten realms or even(at the moment) WoTC, I trying to understand a companies statement that seems so blatantly false.

Aubrey the Malformed wrote:

It would be a shame if the gnome did go, though I could live with it. I think they confirmed somewhere the half-elf was definately going to stay. Don't know about the rest.

According to the racial traits teaser on the Races page "dwarven resilience, elven evasion, a half-elf’s inspiring presence."

Maybe they'll ditch humans. they are so blaze` blaze` anyways.

I'm rather surprised that no one has brought this up yet, and if they have and I missed it, apologies, but the current unfolding of events begs the question....

Will Pathfinder continue to be published in 3.5 edition format?
When (if ever) will it switch to 4th edition?
Is the Open Gaming License even going to be available for 4th edition?
Did our friends at Paizo know this was going to happen? What's the plan?

In retrospect, the cancellation of the license should have been a clear indicator of this course all along.

Yes you have missed the responses.

1 waiting to see, once they know we'll know.
2 as answer 1
3 again as answer 1
4 no, see answer 1

and as far as retrospect goes, they actually announced this was gong to happen when the licenses were announced. Well the digital initiative was, 4ed was a certain surprise. Especially since there were some assurances made that IF 4ed was happening to be in the works it wouldn't be ready till at least 09. How pleasantly ambiguous though huh?

Well they're also blowing up the Realms again with this spellplauge or what have you.

1st to 2e Avatar

2e to 3e city of shade, melting of the great glacier.

3e to 3.5 retaking of mythdranor, destruction of lots of fey'ri. War of the Spider Queen, Invasion of the great wood.

3.5 to 4e shadow trilogy, death of Khelben, death of Halaster, Death of Sylune

Pretty soon we'll have the citizens of Deepingdale rioting yelling "Leave us alone, Mel Brooks!"

I have no idea what any of this means. That's how much I have never experienced FR. In fact I know more of ebberron and I detest that setting. FR I just never cared about, wait I did care for a couple months but as I found out more about it I decided it wasn't for me. It bothers me that you seem to run into an epic level character everytime you get up to go pee in a tavern.

I can't remember which news snippet I read it from but it stated that they are going to scrap Living Greyhawk and create Living Forgotten Realms. Not that I worry about this so much because I don't have a problem giving up coop play but it seems the basis of this was was followed with a statement of FR being the most popular setting? I don't know how to say this without offending Ed Greenwood because he's a good writer but seriously I laughed myself out my chair when I read that. I've seen it written before back in the TSR days but it just makes me think that I'm trying to be sold something. Or that they are trying to convince themselves, as if the more you say it it eventually becomes true.

Now I've traveled a whole lot since starting playing dnd my senior year of highschool 12 years ago and constantly meet new people and make it clear that I play DnD and always want to meet other people who do. In fact I met one of my current gamer friends at a bar almost 2 years ago. And in all this I can't account for an overwhelming number of people who say they played in faerun and only a handful played FR exclusively. Lots of people read the novels but that's because that's the only stuff being heavily printed.

I'm just trying to figure out the logic behind the statement of the realms being the most popular setting. Are they referring to it being most popular because it has the most novels written about it or because there is a cadre of realms players that I have just never met?

KnightErrantJR wrote:

Heathansson wrote:

Don't forget Bizarronogrogomed. He has two butts.

Man, I don't even want to think about where his tentacles originate from . . .

He has....elcatnets.

Do you mean Alkanets? Or is the joke completely lost on me?

Troy Taylor wrote:

Except for those rare times that Dragon actually runs short fiction, which I think should be what qualifies it for the fiction award. I thought the awards categories should be switched.

Which is also something we said, but which obviously got ignored. We don't mind, though, since we're glad to finally win one. :)

You won both mike ; debating which one belonged in which category is just semantics. Really.

Congratulations though to the whole Paizo team. It's always nice to see all that hard work that you do get recognized by your peers and the industry. May your success continue with Pathfinder and the Gamemastery line.

would die today

Oh I also wanted to add a big sorry to mr shiny. I work on electronics and computer systems and have the opposite effect on things. Plenty of time someone will reset something and it still wont work but I step behind them and reset it again and it works that time.

Ever seen Unbreakable? Does this make us enemies?

Thanks guys you just gave me a great idea for a character development for my Cyberpunk/Dark Conspiracy world. The cyborg/android hunter killer. Knows when tronnies are around by getting a headache or other pain somehow but isn't a psion of any sort. Thanks for the idea. And it works great because the tronnies use electroshock interrogation techniques when dealling with meats. I don't get to play in this world anymore but I still keep ideas for it should I ever find willing players.

I think Andrew likes China Mieville. Or mabe I'm just reaching there with that assumption.
I would add to add my voice in too, that an anthology of short stories selected from a contest like submission call would be great. OH, and make sure one of your guys don't quit their job just so that they can turn around and submitt themselves into the contest.

I actually quite enjoyed the Paul Kidd Justicar novelizations

Me too. Enjoyed both White plume mountain and Demonweb pits. No matter how stupid the fairy was, the sentient hell hound pelt was great.

Paul Kidd, P N Elrod, Douglas Niles, and Kristen Britain. I chose people who write well, and with interesting characters and stories. Oh and they are actually available. I'd really love to see what P N Elrod could do with Pathfinder because he can really take a character and make it drive a plot. I enjoy and respect his talent.

I have to agree with Ben Taggart's representing them as having no conscience. I also do the Pint sized hippie thing, just remembering that the Manson family were hippies too. Add a Tim Burton/M. Night Shamaylan style of imagination and you've got my image of fey. Wild and fanciful mixed with equal parts dark and dour.

They are designed to be run with barely a read through. Those who actually prepare are annoyed by the exterraneous crap. I will have to admit though sometimes I forget what the setup I had designed is. It sitting right there is a convenience when that happens.

~grins~ Jeer at the fools that payed for 4.0?

No ,might distract me from whatever game I pickup to replace my LG fix. Because it'll probably be a mini's wargame. More than liklely Reapers Warlord. Or maybe back into Battletech, I've got a bunch of those mini's laying around still.

Well it's current title is "Lightless Depths of the Subterranean Realm". Which is going to be kinda hard to say all the time.

At which point in time I will probably quit playing Living Greyhawk, and be exclusive to home campaigns. But then what the hell am I going to do at Cons?

The West of the World

Oriental adventures-esque region?

Psionics?

Wraps hands over heads to duck impending hail of Mountain Dew cans.

Oh yeah! Nice little goblin Plushie with a big plastic Dog Slicer! Hey if any toy vault guys hang out on this board should read this thread.

Erik Mona wrote:

If you guys liked what we did with goblins, you are going to _adore_ our plans for gnomes.

Oh?! Um... like what? Damn it, now all I can think about is what you could possibly be doing with gnomes. Thanks a lot. ;)

Do they subsist on elf flesh? >:)

Gnome Gninjas. Yes baby! YES!

Hobgoblins.
The hobgoblin army that will be nocking on my PC's door is a combination of Spartan, Egyptian and Samurai cultures.
As children they are raised as the spartans (for those who have seen The 300 or read The Laws Of Lycurgus) but those who are not deemed worthy or fail their test but make it back aren't killed. They are the foot soldiers as you would think of a typical hoplite. Tower shield, spear, and shortsword. Those that do make it through the tests are allowed to swear their fealty to the tenets of power (A code that establishes actions and respect through strength of arms) and become Similars (Samurai class) and what you would consider a Spartan then becoming dual sword wielding terrors of the battlefield, with many becoming Warmasters (Kensai). In fact the final encounter should be glorious battle against the Warlord Kings personally lead band of Sam8/Ken5, he is obviously much higher(Lvl 21).
Because I put them as marching out of the sea of dust I went and bought Sandstorm and gave them a visual culture similar to the Egyptians but very simplified to coincide with the Spartan/Feudal Japan war societies. Oh and when I read about the Ashworms and Ashworm riders you bet I made a whole legion of them.
The party keeps running into these wierd brown armored dual sword wielding Hobgoblins. Little do they know where it is taking them. But that's how I picture hobgoblins. Legions, and legions of them ordered and structured built around a war society. Really what else do they have to do?

Does this go for the Compleat Encounters as well? Even though I know they've been in production already. I have all of them now, I think. Throwing them into the adventure path is going to happen already for my own flavor, I was just wondering if it would add "Official" flavor. And if official how about a little map and one paragraph description of where they take place.

if a product does well enough, it gets a sequel.

Especially if it's owned by WoTC. Hip hop publishing at it's finest.

As for Living Greyhawk, yes it exists. Yes people play no matter how many times I hear people say that it's dieing or dead or what ever. The numbers keep growing according to the RPGA, so just because it's not popular in one area doesn't mean it's dead. There are 3 game shops in my local area(VA beach, VA) that have a regular game every week and usually with a packed table every adventure, and often making up two tables (6 to a table). Though it seems now only LG and 3 home campaigns are going to have to be my Greyhawk fix from now. Unfortunatley the home campaigns are almost half over. LG is fun. I like getting to meet new people all the time that my character doesn't kill, and reminds me on occasion of how much I love my home campaigns, when at a table with someone I want to.

Why? You can never have too many monsters available. Look at the plethora of creatures on this planet that can(and will) eat you. Hell my friend pointed out that your cat does not like you, if it was 3 feet taller at the shoulder it would stalk you, kill you, and eat you.

MMMmmmm a new world to plunder...

Ah, yes in the words of my first Dungeon Master "Come join the adventure, travel to strange new worlds, explore new places, meet new people, then kill them all, "rescue" their maidens, and take their treasures."

Okay Vic,

I get this. It's a bummer, but it makes sense. On the other hand, couldn't Pathfinder function in a similar function as a Dragon/Dungeon remake, only in OGL instead? (In a similar spirit as Dragon Compendium, perhaps Pathfinder could be rich in player content, but also tie that into three separate adventures in each BOOK?)

Otherwise, maybe you could beat WotC at its own game and produce an online webzine using your old magic. Just so you know, I feel much more comfortable with Paizo at the helm than I do WotC.

Got to look at feasability of the product. If they print a mag it's just another rag on a shelf that gets it's cover torn off at the end of the month and mailed back to them. If they print it as a book it first of all goes into the gaming or fantasy sections of the book store where it sits mightily happy until someone purchases it even if it's months later. Iy's being put in a book store, which means wider distribution also, depending on which section they can get it put into(ie. fantasy vs Games)

This affords the customer who doesn't have a readily playing gaming group to not have to get a subscription but can buy it in the store. or the kid that only gets $20 a month allowance or otherwise financially challenged people to buy the modules every other month as they need them and have the money available. It also allows someone who starts gaming or gets back into it 3 years down the road from know to be able to jump right on the band wagon by snatching up past issues that are on the shelf. Right there, ON THE SHELF. Why? Because it's a book not a magazine. It can be reprinted, and stuffed right back there in the book store for the next wide eyed kid looking for a bit of escapism to snatch up, with out having to contact the company and ordering back issues like you do with a magazine. So you see how this allows for a very long term product, something that is very difficult to achieve with a magazine. Look how big a party a magazine publisher throws for a rag it owns when it hits 5 years then 10 years. Then you're mad when it quits publishing at 12. Magazines live 30 days at a time. Books last as long as the presses are there to print them.

James Jacobs wrote:

The AP involves giants in a big way.

That's just not fair. I have a weakness for giants.

I second that. After having played a half ogre warmage in Red hand of Doom, giants are fun.

Hey, with beholders not in the SRD does that mean I'm going to have to get a new avatar? Eye really like this one. ;)

Erik, I'm done with work now too. Leaving in 10 minutes to find all the beer and rum in my fridge. I can sympathize with you on how frustrating a day like this can be.

If you Paizo folks can get Monte Cook to come back to game design and contribute to Pathfinder in some capacity, you may consider my $20 per month subscription a guarantee.

They got necromancer games. That's good enough for me. Monte is off in his own little world with Ptolus.