I find it strange that other table top RPG companies can put out multiple editions of games and no one complains at all. The fans pony up the cash and on we go. WoTC does a 4th edition and sight unseen everyone is down on "The Man" for making a buck and putting out a new edition.
Now for myself I would have liked about a 10 year gap between editions but I'm willing to look at the 4th edition Players Handbook in May of 2008 and see if I want to make the switch. Maybe it will be better. If not I can still play my 3.5 or 3.0 games with plenty of supplemental material.
What do you think you will do?
I will look at the players guide first. I may buy it after that. But I still have so much 3.5 stuff that I really do not need to switch anytime soon. I am taking the wait and see approach.
I will look at the players guide first. I may buy it after that. But I still have so much 3.5 stuff that I really do not need to switch anytime soon. I am taking the wait and see approach.
Actually, if you just want to see what the new rules are before buying the core books, why buy the PHB?
Assuming that the new 4.0 SRD is available (and I think it will be), why not just look at that online for an hour or two first? Sure its missing the nice illustrations and some of the fluff, but you'll be able to see the new level system, what has changed, etc.
I'll do whatever Pathfinder tells me to do.
I will look at the players guide first. I may buy it after that. But I still have so much 3.5 stuff that I really do not need to switch anytime soon. I am taking the wait and see approach.Actually, if you just want to see what the new rules are before buying the core books, why buy the PHB?
Assuming that the new 4.0 SRD is available (and I think it will be), why not just look at that online for an hour or two first? Sure its missing the nice illustrations and some of the fluff, but you'll be able to see the new level system, what has changed, etc.
Good point. I guess I am stuck in the dead tree format still. Sometime or another I am going to have to join the 21 st century. Also, I just tend to absorb more when I read a book. You do have a good point about the 4.0 SDR.
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I'll buy the core books. For me thats a given. I've followed D&D for over 20 years now and while I don't think 3e or 4e are true to the spirit of what *I* consider to be D&D, I still will shell out for the core books just to keep up with it. I can't help myself, its a name brand thats been with me for years.
However, will the new edition get use at my table? I can almost guarantee it will not. Just like my 3.5 core three sit on the shelf gathering dust.
When I want some good ol' D&D goodness, it's C&C that I turn to these days. Well, C&C and Pathfinder it looks like now.
I find it strange that other table top RPG companies can put out multiple editions of games and no one complains at all.
Which companies are you speaking of, pray tell?
People are complaining because there's nothing wrong with 3rd Ed. Wizards equates lack of sales with a stagnant product - I equate it with the over-indulgence associated with a "collectible" market. Those D&D minis, while cool, herald the downfall of modern gaming because of their inherent ties with a twisted "collectible" consumerism.
As long as they keep us buying the same regurgitated material, we won't have to worry about wasting our time with new concepts. Look at the Expedition series - sure, it's great... but there's nothing new. Those hardcover modules are cool, but they reiterate the notion that the gaming industry is out of ideas.
And this Gleemax business... sign of the Apocalypse. Mark my words. End of gaming as we know it.
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Most of the games that I own multiple editions of are still mostly compatible with other editions of the same game. Meaning, I could sit down with books from both editions and use them in the same game with minimal modification. I assume part of the problem some folks have with this 4th edition move is that WotC is already stating that the two editions wont be compatible.
The lack of compatibility means some of the folks who have d20 book collections that would rival a dragon's hoard in size are, kinda justifiably, feeling a bit shafted.
Good point, DD. It reminds me of how obsolete my West End Star Wars books are at this point.
I find it strange that everyone seems to think Paizo is a charity. As far as 4th Ed goes, I'll take a look at the offline version, but forget screwing around with DRM'd crap.
I gave this some thought...
Remember when 3rd Ed. came out? Remember how much the 2nd Ed. had been reduced to lame alternate rules sourcebooks and unnecessary (nay, uninteresting) supplements?
People were excited about 3rd Ed. Some still are, under the guise of 3.5.
I don't need a 4th Ed. I don't want it.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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I find it strange that other table top RPG companies can put out multiple editions of games and no one complains at all. The fans pony up the cash and on we go. WoTC does a 4th edition and sight unseen everyone is down on "The Man" for making a buck and putting out a new edition.
It's fairly unusual for a game company to release completely incompatible rules, particular so soon after a previous incompatible release. Looking at my shelves o' many games, the main previous company to release extremely incompatible rules was TSR (Gamma World, Top Secret, Marvel Super Heroes being some examples). Not the only examples, but games like Champions and Gurps have kept reasonable compatibility for decades.
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The only game other than D&D which I've played/purchased with any consistency is Call of Cthulhu. I've been playing CoC long enough to have gone through four editions of the game. I'll pick up the new core rules with each new edition, and while I'd rather not have another handbook, I really don't mind so much. I'm being a bit simplistic when I say this, but with each new edition of CoC the overhaul has been paramount to tweaking the rules- give a few new points to this skill here, change the name and/or description of a skill there. They're compatible enough that if I want to run a third edition CoC adventure and I'm using the current (sixth ed.) rules, I can do conversions on the fly if I need to make them at all.
That doesn't happen with D&D.
It wasn't all that problematic making the changes between first and second edition. After a year or two of playing second edition (that was my senior year of high school and the first year of college, so there was a lot of free time to game and, in doing so, master the rules) I could make most conversions of NPCs and monsters in an hour or so if I was running an older module. First and second editions were close enough that some, but certainly not all, conversions weren't an all day undertaking.
I gamed for thirteen years by the time third edition came out. I didn't have the cash flow in high school and college to buy everything that I wanted for D&D as it came out, but between Greyhawk, the Realms, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Mystara, Planescape, and Spelljammer, in that time anyone can amass quite a bit of TSR gaming material. If I wanted to use third edition rules and didn't plan on devoting hours if not days to converting from first and second editions, all of it was useless.
Seven years later, I'm not amused to hear that once again the shelves filled with D&D books will go the way of the dodo if I want to use the most current rules set. I've read that the new edition is d20. Well, WotC's Star Wars RPG and the Star Wars Saga Edition are both d20. But they're not the same beast. The same will apply, I'm already assured by everything I've read from WotC, from 3.0/3.5E to 4E. While the essential mechanics might be the same, if 3.5 is d20, 4E will be d20mania- not d20, but an amazing facsimile thereof. They won't be compatible, and I really don't feel like doing this Vaudeville bit of conversion and spending thousands restocking the shelves yet again.
I have no ill will to WotC. It's our hobby, but it's their business. PHBs need to be sold, lumberjacks need to be paid, and CEOs need to pad their bank accounts. I wish them success, and I love the thought of the game evolving. The final call on whether I get the fourth edition stuff isn't mine- I'm leaving it to the kids at my high school who I run a game for. If they want the new stuff, I'll get what I need to make them happy. But for my own campaigns, I'm sticking with 3.5.
I want to get in on the playtesting. Not because I give a damn what the rule sets are and want in on the inside, but because I want it to not suck. I want to test every possible character combination I can come up with until it sunders the rules like your windshield hitting a mack truck. Then find out how to bring the rules back around so your windshield looks unscratched. I want to wring the hell out of the mechanics until the dish rag bleeds copius red. Just so that in 3 years we're not going to be screaming at each other over the 4.5 upgrade. So that we can waste our money on adventure supplements, sodas, and Con tickets not a whole new set of core books because we were all standing around whining about the new edition, is it good or is it bad(good with bobby brown sucked without him). Instead of wanting to make sure its a quality product. I have a weekly gaming group with minutae skeptics and rules lawyers and guys with the distinct ability to.. how should I put it... creatively rule bend(or abuse depending on ones perspective)?
And this Gleemax business... sign of the Apocalypse. Mark my words. End of gaming as we know it.
Or the revolution. I hope for the simple sustainability of the market a revolution. I fear however you may be correct.
Let's put it this way: I'm a geek. An internet-savvy geek. That site, at this point in time, makes my head hurt. I can't possibly imagine taking the time to decipher its mysteries.
I'd rather spend time writing emails to old gaming buddies.
Or better yet - let's all start trading Pokemon cards.
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I find it strange that other table top RPG companies can put out multiple editions of games and no one complains at all. The fans pony up the cash and on we go. WoTC does a 4th edition and sight unseen everyone is down on "The Man" for making a buck and putting out a new edition.
Now for myself I would have liked about a 10 year gap between editions but I'm willing to look at the 4th edition Players Handbook in May of 2008 and see if I want to make the switch. Maybe it will be better. If not I can still play my 3.5 or 3.0 games with plenty of supplemental material.
What do you think you will do?
That's funny--Chaosium has done 6.5 editions and a d20 edition, and with the obvious exception of the d20 Monte Cook version, CoC has changed very little--yet no-one ever complains. Then again, Chaosium markets the new editions as updates to art, typography, and layout with minimal rules revision--in fact, my 6th edition book says, buy this book if you want, or keep playing your 4th edition book--little difference. When I hear a new CoC book is scheduled I'm one of the first to preorder...so, maybe it's the fact that there are so many D&D books, and many players have a considerable fortune invested...
As to what I will do? This is my hobby; like golfers buy the newest clubs, I will buy the newest books. My only maybe-maybe not is the DDI, because I'm a Mac user, and I'm not converting to PC at home to use the DDI extras.
Let's put it this way: I'm a geek. An internet-savvy geek. That site, at this point in time, makes my head hurt. I can't possibly imagine taking the time to decipher its mysteries.
I'd rather spend time writing emails to old gaming buddies.
Or better yet - let's all start trading Pokemon cards.
I have have two copies of the original charmander ... whatchyu gimmie for one?
(I really don't trade Pokemon cards. That was sarcasm. Now, if you have some Star Wars Decipher cards, we can talk).
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I find it strange that other table top RPG companies can put out multiple editions of games and no one complains at all. The fans pony up the cash and on we go. WoTC does a 4th edition and sight unseen everyone is down on "The Man" for making a buck and putting out a new edition.
Now for myself I would have liked about a 10 year gap between editions but I'm willing to look at the 4th edition Players Handbook in May of 2008 and see if I want to make the switch. Maybe it will be better. If not I can still play my 3.5 or 3.0 games with plenty of supplemental material.
What do you think you will do?
There is Another.... White-Wolf.
You must have missed it when they totally scraped their Revised (3rd Edition) for their all new World Of Darkness that was totally incompatable to the books that came out the last Decade+, and the outcry from the fans for what they were doing.
And then not only that The person who basicly IMO pushed White-Wolf into doing it quits the company shortly after..(I liked him until this all happened)
Though I do love the New rules I am still pissed about how they totally Scraped everything to start anew.
At least when WotC goes to 4th Edition they will not scrap the Stories and history of thier settings like White-Wolf did when they went to Their new system.
There is Another.... White-Wolf.
Funny thing about white wolf. Why you should be careful what you wish for. Their fans begged them to fix the rules for game intercompatibility and then when they did those same fans abandoned them. Apparently they didn't like the delivery.
I'm as grumpy as the next person that my pile of 3.5 books are going to become obsolete, and I knew it was going to happen some time I just hoped it was a few more years down the line.
That said, the alternative isn't pretty either (as in, alternative to an evolving game). Take a look at Rifts. I played Rifts for years, and had tons of books. Not only did nothing change, much of the material in each new book was simply reprinted from old books (complete with typos too). After a while of things staying the same I came back to D&D.
When a new edition of the Rifts game came out I was excited and picked it up - finally they were going to fix the mechanical problems that plagued the Palladium system and give the great setting that Rifts is a great set of rules to go along with it. Instead, they added 1 new game mechanic, they didn't change the way skills work, they didn't even attempt to add in any game balance... it was a waste of an edition. If you ask me, repackaging your old game with no real changes - that is a cash grab. At least we can be sure that they're going to change things so much that it warrants a new set of books (for better or worse).
Maybe it's one of their typos, and they meant penultimate...If you ask me, repackaging your old game with no real changes - that is a cash grab.
But...
But....
It says Ultimate on the cover! That proves it's superiority.
Doesn't it? ;P
Awesome!
The worst part about the book is that they didn't even update the Coalition equipment and vehicles that had all been changed - they just reprinted the stuff from the original Rifts book and noted that they didn't use this stuff anymore - go and buy the Coalition sourcebook.
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Funny thing about white wolf. Why you should be careful what you wish for. Their fans begged them to fix the rules for game intercompatibility and then when they did those same fans abandoned them. Apparently they didn't like the delivery.
There is Another.... White-Wolf.
Yeah we asked for better system to make all the games compaitable... we never asked them to scrap all the history... and start anew.. Some where on the way Justin Achilli decided he knew best, and that the game was stagnent (He hated many of the Vampire clans and always said he wished he could get rid of a bunch and start all over, well he got his wish) and needed a re-boot.
Now that all said. In itself the new system and and story is still well done but it literally made all 600+ books I owned totally incompatiable with the new system, Which IMO feel was a mistake on their part.
Ofcourse I can always still play the old system still without the support of any new books. which was White Wolf constantly told thier fans.
Uugh, first Dragon and Dungeon and now another new edition already?! Had this thread not made me go check the WotC site and see the headline there bigger than Tiamat I'd have thought this all rumor-mongering. Well at least now I know I shouldn't bother wasting money buying that copy of Stormwrack I was looking at... or the Spell Compendium, Magic Item Compedium, Complete Champion, Leather-bound Core Rulebooks or the Rules Compendium.
*sigh*
And just when my custom damage system and 3.5 party automation database was nearing completion. At least when Microsoft releases a new version of Office it can still open files from the prior versions and has a "Save As" function that can export to the old ones. Too bad D&D is not cross-compatible... >:|
Can we at least hope that the text of the new 4E books will be run thru a spell-checker then read-thru by an English teacher before they are printed? It would also be nice if ALL BOOKS would actually have INDEXES this time around too.
FORMAT D20: /X
I find it strange that other table top RPG companies can put out multiple editions of games and no one complains at all. The fans pony up the cash and on we go. WoTC does a 4th edition and sight unseen everyone is down on "The Man" for making a buck and putting out a new edition.
Now for myself I would have liked about a 10 year gap between editions but I'm willing to look at the 4th edition Players Handbook in May of 2008 and see if I want to make the switch. Maybe it will be better. If not I can still play my 3.5 or 3.0 games with plenty of supplemental material.
What do you think you will do?
I think I will wait and see what 4e has to offer, and the idea of scanning the SRD first surely is a good one - in fact, that is how I tackled 3.5 - read the SRD first, and buy the books after that. I guess I will buy the new rules sooner or later, however - the collector in me won´t quit until I do anyway...
I don´t think of WotC like some corporate monstrosity - if at all, Hasbro can be viewed thus. Most of the folks there are long-time gamers and/or gaming industry professionals who know that they can´t fail on this job, lest they alienate their customer base. But they have to cater to the old customers tastes as well as trying to get new customers - that´s not easy. It is not quite squaring the circle, but close - and not everybody will be pleased with the results, but then, this is impossible to achieve.White Wolf? Go away with your new WoD. What I saw and heard from it, I didn´t like at all - especially as they changed the historic settings (Vampire Dark Ages) as well. Now that´s a change that came out too radical.
CoC? It doesn´t really matter which edition you use, so what´s the point buying a new one at all? If I buy a new edition of a game, I want to see some positive development in it.
Stefan
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I find it strange that other table top RPG companies can put out multiple editions of games and no one complains at all. The fans pony up the cash and on we go. WoTC does a 4th edition and sight unseen everyone is down on "The Man" for making a buck and putting out a new edition.
Now for myself I would have liked about a 10 year gap between editions but I'm willing to look at the 4th edition Players Handbook in May of 2008 and see if I want to make the switch. Maybe it will be better. If not I can still play my 3.5 or 3.0 games with plenty of supplemental material.
What do you think you will do?
As has been stated: most other game systems, when released, assume a significant level of compatability with former editions, not an attitude of totally rebuilding everything into a new shape. Example is GURPS; when they went from third to fourth edition, I can still go tag my shelf full of supplements without any real trouble. A few point costs may be different, but the rules changes were updating and tweaking problems with the former set of rules rather than deciding that everything (and the kitchen sink) needed rebuilt.
Moreover, what has me ticked off is that WotC flat-out lied to the gaming populace, insisting that 4e wasn't even in the planning stages while they were steadily reeling licenses back in as they expired. And now? Hey, guys, we're just about ready to release 4e!
...I've said it in a different thread, but it bears reiteration: if Paizo goes to the 4e OGL, I'll buy the core books. And that is the *only* money WotC is getting from me in regards to 4e, end of story. And the only money from my gamer friends, from what we've all discussed. I do *not* like being lied to like this.
That's funny--Chaosium has done 6.5 editions and a d20 edition, and with the obvious exception of the d20 Monte Cook version, CoC has changed very little--yet no-one ever complains. Then again, Chaosium markets the new editions as updates to art, typography, and layout with minimal rules revision--in fact, my 6th edition book says, buy this book if you want, or keep playing your 4th edition book--little difference. When I hear a new CoC book is scheduled I'm one of the first to preorder...so, maybe it's the fact that there are so many D&D books, and many players have a considerable fortune invested...
I think no one complains because you only have to buy ONE rule book to play CoC. Then you have plenty of money to spend on great adventures or campaigns (Fungi of Yuggoth or Masks of Nyarlathotep anyone?). And it's so compatible that it's not even mandatory to buy the new rules to play with the new supplements. I can convert any CoC NPC on the fly which is simply impossible with D&D even on a 3.0/3.5 basis.
I will take a look at 4Ed. I remember buying 3.0 with closed eyes. I really welcomed the change, which was very much needed IMO. However I still have a strange taste in my mouth with 3.5 especially when I read on Monte Cook web site that it was planned before 3.0 was even released. But since I liked the rules clarification I decided to follow. Now when I look back I didn't really see an improvement in my gaming pleasure. Now I'm in doubt. In France we say "Once is an error, twice is a mistake" involving thousands of euros or dollars. A new CoC is a $45 investment. Minimum entry fare in D&D is $120-150+. Plus the new splat books, plus the new books on the campaign world you're usually using (FR in my case)full of information you already know, plus, plus, plus...
What makes me itch is also the lack of new things. I understand the nostalgia - I'm 37 and play since 1983 - but I'd like to see new cool adventures, campaigns, worlds, all things that came when d20 hit the world. However, WotC seems ill-equipped to lead this change. All I have seen from them lately is pure nostalgia, and while well-made, was not really interesting. I already played Ravenloft y'know, I plundered Undermountain a while ago, and I my old pally character died in the hands of Lolth. So yeah I understand nostalgia but I'm a Pathfinder subscriber.
Sorry for the long rant. (And I hope my English is not too broken)
Bran
I've said it in a different thread, but it bears reiteration: if Paizo goes to the 4e OGL, I'll buy the core books. And that is the *only* money WotC is getting from me in regards to 4e, end of story. And the only money from my gamer friends, from what we've all discussed. I do *not* like being lied to like this.
If that's the case why not just buy a ream of paper, they're like 10 bucks for a quality thicker paper and then just print out the SRD. It's not like Paizo can include any monsters in the adventure that's in the MM but not in the SRD. So you have all the rules and monster stats and don't have to worry about giving your monies to a company that bothers you so much.
I gave this some thought...
Remember when 3rd Ed. came out? Remember how much the 2nd Ed. had been reduced to lame alternate rules sourcebooks and unnecessary (nay, uninteresting) supplements?
People were excited about 3rd Ed. Some still are, under the guise of 3.5.
Thats why I was exited about 3rd edition.
IF you ask me lame, unnessecary supplmental rule books are what 3rd edition has been reduced too.
If 3rd edition is so good. Then why are their so many debates about what is wrong with this rule and that system in this message boards.
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If 3rd edition is so good. Then why are their so many debates about what is wrong with this rule and that system in this message boards.
I can't imagine any game that proposes the use of dice and byzantine mechanics to resolve random outcomes in a simulation of real world events having a set of rules that are universally welcomed by every person who plays the game. Hell, I think you're lucky to get five adults sitting around a table to play Monopoly without an argument or discussion at some point over the way a rules work, and the rules for that game fit on about four pages of paper.
I've been around long enough to hear inane and important arguments for and against the rules of every edition of D&D. It's not that fourth edition won't solve this, it CAN'T solve this. People will disagree on how things work best within the system because our perspectives are all different. And once again, there will be debate, revision, and ultimately the "optional" rules supplements. Count on it.
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If that's the case why not just buy a ream of paper, they're like 10 bucks for a quality thicker paper and then just print out the SRD. It's not like Paizo can include any monsters in the adventure that's in the MM but not in the SRD. So you have all the rules and monster stats and don't have to worry about giving your monies to a company that bothers you so much.
Because the hardback covers are actually an invaluable thing, between where I live and the people I game with, and even places that offer to bind for you have difficulty with that. Otherwise, within a year that $10 on paper will escalate to about $150.
I may be an irate, grouchy old grognard (since original D&D - back when there was no Good and Evil!), but I'm not a stupid one, or a spendthrift.
And once again, there will be debate, revision, and ultimately the "optional" rules supplements. Count on it.
WotC is.
Chaosium is one company with multiple editions. White Wolf has 2. Shadowrun is on the 4th edition and everyone still loves it (and 2 and 3 came out very close together!) None of these games has the length of time behind them like D&D.
I often compare this to a gear-head debate on Ford vs. Chevy. You can create fun little Calvin's peeing on the WoTC logo and still pay your hard earned buck for another companies RPGs. You call WoTC liars and you are right! But then again they all LIE!
But before I end this little rant let me ask you this... How many other game companies put out an OGL? How many other games let other publishers use their rules and play with their toys (Only Tunnels and Trolls/ Runequest comes to mind at that is brand new!)? Can you find an SRD for the World of Darkness? How about Heavy Gear? SLA Industries? If you can I'd like to see them.
... How many other game companies put out an OGL? How many other games let other publishers use their rules and play with their toys?
My counter question would be:
How many others need them?
It's been mentioned several times above in this thread, but I haven't actually seen it elsewhere--although I confess I have been preoccupied with work.
Has it actually been stated that 3e/3.5 will be incompatible with 4e? or is that the assumption based on the "radical" and "drastic" changes that are coming to rules and game mechanics? I don't have a position, I'm just honestly curious....
Our group won't be moving away from 3.5 for some time. We have several campaigns and characters we want to play before even considering a switch.
That doesn't mean we'll be ignoring 4th ed. though.
We started STAP this past Friday. For that campaign, we borrowed a few features from SWSaga. In later campaigns, we're just as likely to do the same with 4th ed. — hybrid rules on a 3.5 base.
As far as purchases go, if Pathfinder switches to 4th ed. I'll pick up the Monster Manual and stop there. If I need anything else, I'll cut-and-paste the SRD; which is exactly what I did for 3.5. (I've run a very successful D&D game using the SW OCR and RCR for rules, and the odd dip into the SRD when I need spell descriptions.)...
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Funny thing about white wolf. Why you should be careful what you wish for. Their fans begged them to fix the rules for game intercompatibility and then when they did those same fans abandoned them. Apparently they didn't like the delivery.
There is Another.... White-Wolf.
It took me several years to finally warm up to the new World of Darkness. Finally, when I found myself in possession of a lump of extra cash, I splurged on the 4 core books... and I love it! They've streamlined everything, made everything intercompatible, and generally made life easier for players and STs alike.
Do I care that they ditched a lot of the old clan names, threw out sects completely (and replaced them with 'Covenants' which are much more loose), changed organizations, and completely rewrote the mythology? Not at all. I didn't have loyalty to the history or the setting, I had loyalty to the genre and the mechanics. Once I saw that the genre was staying the same and the mechanics were getting better, it was an easy transition. Now I own over a dozen new World of Darkness books and running games with it every weekend. It's fantastic and I'm glad I finally wised up. Maybe 4th Ed. dissenters will do the same 3 years down the line (right before 5th Ed. hits the shelves...).
Good point, DD. It reminds me of how obsolete my West End Star Wars books are at this point.
Obsolete? Thats leading edge technology, good sir! 15 years from now, WotC will be releasing D&D 8.5 edition featuring, you guessed it, d6 system.
I jest, but only where 8.5 is concerned. If WEG version is superior to d20, is it obsolete?
Has it actually been stated that 3e/3.5 will be incompatible with 4e? or is that the assumption based on the "radical" and "drastic" changes that are coming to rules and game mechanics? I don't have a position, I'm just honestly curious....
My basis for believing 4th Edition will be incompatible is based on a few factors:
1) The changes to the rules we have been given glimpses of so far. The gap between what we have been shown, and what we currently have, is a far cry from Non-Weapon Proficiencies are being replaced by Skills and Skill Ranks (as an example).
2) The stated "source material" for 4th Edition. It has been said by members of WoTC that a "good preview" of 4e includes The Book of Nine Swords, Star Wars Saga, and Monster Manual V. (So, if you don't like any one of those books [or all of them, like me] then you are probably not going to enjoy 4th Edition.)
3) The fact that members of WoTC have strongly suggested just starting whole new campaigns when 4th Edition is released. Granted, when they felt the tempest of questions regarding this topic at GenCon, they changed their stance to "We'll look into making conversion guides for people."
But these things add up to some serious incompatibility to me. YMMV.
I went through High School with a set of 1962 Encyclopedia Brittanica...I'm doing just fine now. Apparently, Kennedy is still president, and Nasa will have a moonbase by the year 2000, but, otherwise...
LOL!
I'll do whatever Pathfinder tells me to do.
That's the best strategy I've heard all week. Good plan!
My counter question would be:
How many others need them?
How many other companies would let another game company make money off their intellectual property? Very few Disenchanter.
Don't get wrong, I will watch the 'birth' of 4e with care. Like many of you I have waaaaay to many 3.0 and 3.5 hardback books (with 2.0 it was boxed sets/ 3.0 is HCs). Would I buy the environmental books in 4.0- No way. The Complete series again- doubtful. Source books for Ebberron and Forgotten Realms- No chance!
But if it makes my job as a DM easier and the system is smooth without taking away from the core ideas and role play is still the theme then I will convert.
I find it strange that other table top RPG companies can put out multiple editions of games and no one complains at all. The fans pony up the cash and on we go. WoTC does a 4th edition and sight unseen everyone is down on "The Man" for making a buck and putting out a new edition.
Now for myself I would have liked about a 10 year gap between editions but I'm willing to look at the 4th edition Players Handbook in May of 2008 and see if I want to make the switch. Maybe it will be better. If not I can still play my 3.5 or 3.0 games with plenty of supplemental material.
What do you think you will do?
The difference between other games and D&D is the big quantity of support material published by WOTC. D20 is the behemot of the industry, most of the players play it and many people would prefer not to have to buy everything again.
Most of the games that I own multiple editions of are still mostly compatible with other editions of the same game. Meaning, I could sit down with books from both editions and use them in the same game with minimal modification. I assume part of the problem some folks have with this 4th edition move is that WotC is already stating that the two editions wont be compatible.
The lack of compatibility means some of the folks who have d20 book collections that would rival a dragon's hoard in size are, kinda justifiably, feeling a bit shafted.
You have the point friend if you look evolution from 1.0 to 2.0 to 2.5 to 3.0 to 3.5 you can see that there is a possibility to come with convertion rules, so you can use still your old books from second and ever first edition. And now we listen from WOTC that won't be any convertion rules that this is a different starting point and that you must begin play with a 1st level character. That is the base of complaining. As someone on this thread said. "There is nothing wrong with 3.5" So we can see here not a desire to improve the game but starting something new only to get our $$$$$$
Let's put it this way: I'm a geek. An internet-savvy geek. That site, at this point in time, makes my head hurt. I can't possibly imagine taking the time to decipher its mysteries.
I'd rather spend time writing emails to old gaming buddies.
Or better yet - let's all start trading Pokemon cards.
Ssssshhhhh don't speak up! if not they will bring another edition of Pokemon Trading cards game