Tiefling will be core?


4th Edition


I have read on numerous posts and messageboards that the tiefling will be a core race. Does this strike anyone else as a bad idea? Th entire point of tieflings is that they have demonic or fiendish blood in their viens, while this can be played any way a character wants, how many parents will look at the book see "half-fiend" as a playable race and just outright refuse to allow the kid to play? I enjoy playing such brooding hero characters, yet to place a race so blatantly based around evil in the core book itself simply strikes me as a bad move, especially if they are dumping an already core race in favor of it.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Rhavin wrote:
I have read on numerous posts and messageboards that the tiefling will be a core race.

I read somewhere that gnomes are being removed. Does anyone have that source? I cant wait to go to church and let everyone know the game I defend is now replacing the cute little garden gnome* with a more satanic influence.

High fantasy my @$$.

* also goes to show the general population seriously under estimates the gnome!

Liberty's Edge

DitheringFool wrote:
Rhavin wrote:
I have read on numerous posts and messageboards that the tiefling will be a core race.

I read somewhere that gnomes are being removed. Does anyone have that source? I cant wait to go to church and let everyone know the game I defend is now replacing the cute little garden gnome* with a more satanic influence.

High fantasy my @$$.

* also goes to show the general population seriously under estimates the gnome!

There is no source for that, just speculation. I'm actually of the opinion that half-orcs will be the ones to go. Although Monte Cook was not part of the 4E design team, I know that he advocated ditching the half-orc concept post 3E (he thought that it should have just been "orc") and the tiefling would fill the niche of the half-orc fairly well...

Rob


actually, given it's current abilities, it wouldn't. The half-orc is an unintelligent brute who relies on strength (at least the way his stats are +'d and -'d) whereas the tiefling as it is written is far more intelligent and dexterous.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Rhavin wrote:
Th entire point of tieflings is that they have demonic or fiendish blood in their viens, while this can be played any way a character wants, how many parents will look at the book see "half-fiend" as a playable race and just outright refuse to allow the kid to play?

1986 called for you and totally agreed. 1956 called to warn that playing dnd is communist. 2006 rolled its eyes and chuckled, pointing out that the big satan scare happened long ago and that parents have bigger, online-predator-shaped fish to fry.

Somehow, in a world where Harry Potter and LotR rule the box office, where tween girls wear thongs, where gta involves hookers and drugs, and every other video game has a demonic looking villian, I don't think the tiefling is going to set off any alarm bells. Yeah, maybe in some parts of the country where people still wear bonnets and churn their own butter this will be scandalous, but not most places. Hell, even magic put the devils/demons back in. I guess I missed all the stories of irate parents burning magic cards due to their dark powers.


I stand corrected, yet it still bugs the hell out of me (no pun intended) that tieflings are said to be replacing another formerly core race given that D&D di work so hard for so many years to remove that image. While it won't stop me from scanning and (more than likely) buying the books, such an action strikes m as slightly hipocritical.


I would be cautious about too much speculation. If they didn't cut gnomes from 3rd Edition, I doubt they would for fourth. I just hope they continue to try and differentiate them from halflings more. All those miniature people look alike to me, once they got rid of the bulbous noses and hairy feet and tried to make them all svelt.

I heard fourth edition will be banning the twelve-sided die from gaming tables everywhere. A big, menacing gang of pocket-protector clad geeks will be by to burn any d12s you have in the house. They're scary: they all have neck beards.

Dark Archive

They will be cutting one core race for sure, and replacing it with another, though which ones was not released. They did say that the cut race will appear in the first supplement released.


I was hoping for lizardfolk as a core race personally.Ofcourse im also hoping elf is the core race they cut. :p


Yeah my 4e characters gonna be a Gnome ankle attacker!


Of course tiefling will be core and it will have favored class warlock, which will also be core. Maybe... (they will remove the favored class mechanic of course)


I think it's kind of funny that when 2E came out TSR were so worried about being associated with satanism that all the Demons became "Tanar'ri." Now in 4E people with a blood tie to the Forces of Darkness are a core race. I guess Half-Orc just wasn't evil enough for the modern gamer.

Is anyone else getting a bit sick of edgy heroes? They're EVERYWHERE in the media. I used to be all for morally grey good guys but now I'm seriously starting to get a hankering for a principled Paladin who tries to do what's right and isn't snarky, gloomy, merciless or related to a devil.

Tobus Neth wrote:
Yeah my 4e characters gonna be a Gnome ankle attacker!

I hereby vow that my 1st ever 4E PC will be a Paladin who is a shining beacon of goodness amongst the Tieflings and Drow.


My first 4e character will be a lizardfolk druid elf-hunter.


mine will be....

more than likely and dwarf fighter just becaue I like cliches and will want to play around with the new fighter


Rhavin wrote:
I have read on numerous posts and messageboards that the tiefling will be a core race. Does this strike anyone else as a bad idea? Th entire point of tieflings is that they have demonic or fiendish blood in their viens, while this can be played any way a character wants, how many parents will look at the book see "half-fiend" as a playable race and just outright refuse to allow the kid to play? I enjoy playing such brooding hero characters, yet to place a race so blatantly based around evil in the core book itself simply strikes me as a bad move, especially if they are dumping an already core race in favor of it.

I agree; there are still many places, even in the most modern countries, where parents don't let their kids read Harry Potter or M:tG and pretend to be shocked when their underage daughters come home knocked up. It's hard to imagine when you live anywhere near an urban center, but believe me many such places do exist. I grew up in one.

My other concern is that the tiefling will be included in core, but the aasimar will somehow be forgotten. How such an oversight would happen is beyond me, but I just get a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach when I hear "tiefling in core"...


Sebastian wrote:
1986 called for you and totally agreed. 1956 called to warn that playing dnd is communist. 2006 rolled its eyes and chuckled

I hadn't realized there was a statute of limitations on intolerance and ignorance.


I'm betting it will be the gnome that is cut.

I think there are only 4 possible races they would consider cutting. Half -Elf, Half-Orc, Halfling, Gnome. The rest of the races are just way to entrenched in fantasy literature.

I highly doubt that the Half-Elf will go simply because of how popular they have historically been (not so much in 3.5 because their a lousy race).

I've seen a WotC example of what might happen in a 4th edition game that involved a Halfling so I think their in.

I think that the Half-Orc fills a popular niche with its nice bonus to strength so I suspect they'll stick - just so players can make really strong Half-Orc Barbarians.

That pretty much leaves me with the Gnome by process of elimination.

The Exchange

It would be a shame if the gnome did go, though I could live with it. I think they confirmed somewhere the half-elf was definately going to stay. Don't know about the rest.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
It would be a shame if the gnome did go, though I could live with it. I think they confirmed somewhere the half-elf was definately going to stay. Don't know about the rest.

According to the racial traits teaser on the Races page "dwarven resilience, elven evasion, a half-elf’s inspiring presence."


DitheringFool wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
It would be a shame if the gnome did go, though I could live with it. I think they confirmed somewhere the half-elf was definately going to stay. Don't know about the rest.
According to the racial traits teaser on the Races page "dwarven resilience, elven evasion, a half-elf’s inspiring presence."

Maybe they'll ditch humans. they are so blaze` blaze` anyways.


Well, the half-orc was not included in 2e core already, so there would be precedent for this. But it could be the gnome as well, alongside with the bard class.
I don´t think they will cut any staple fantasy race. I guess that any race that appears in LotR will remain, as LotR is still one of the most popular fantasy books (Harry Potter notwithstanding).
Tiefling as core? Ok, if they have to.... But I´m not too exited about it.

Stefan


honnestly i would love for the teifling to be in it my favorite race to play is the teifling there, i love playing the misunderstood good guy who allyays tries to help. and if there core then that will have more people clearing up there name....bot every one likes playing a evil guy so change him to a good guy whoes haunted by his ancesetory. it will make stories richer....teiflings are alot more interesting than a human or an elf.....we know just about every thing about them lets explore some thing else for awile


Tieflings were always intended to be a player race. They were first introduced as such in the planescape boxed set. While they do have demonic (Or devilish, daemonic, or even hagish) blood, they're open to any alignment, with just a tenancy towards evil. They fill the same roleplaying niche as half-orcs and drow, typically played by players who are interested in either evil or prejudice as character themes.

Lantern Lodge

It seems Paizo were ahead of their time, featuring a Tiefling as one of their Iconic characters in Dragon magazine.

It doesn't seem a bad choice - diffuses the "everyone wants to be a drow" syndrome.


yay, now everyone wantsto be a tiefling...forgive my lack of enthusiasm. If everyone begins playing them as you suggest then wont they lose their feel? After all every teifling you meet will be a good guy hauntedby his past; that sounds very much like an entire race of reformed gangsters from their teen days.

As I have said before, I like the teifling and they can make interesting characters. I do however have a problem with them becomming core, especially if it is at the expense of another formerly core race.


I agree with your OP, Rhavin; they shouldn't be a core race. If they were, I imagine they'd become the new drow. I also dislike the Shaper, Changeling, and Warforged races, and hope that they will not be core, as someone else has suggested (play a frickin Doppelganger, Lycanthrope, or Half-Golem if you want to play one of the other races!).

PS, Rahvin. Didn't Rand al'Thor destroy you with balefire? Maybe it actually transported you to a different realm instead. ;-)


silly cleric, death is for mortals ;)


I'm sure if parents are smart enough to realize that the demons featured in the Yu-Gi-Oh! card game aren't going to turn their children into mass-murdering cultists, then the demons in a pen-and-paper game that fosters imagination and good reading skills are also safe.

Liberty's Edge

Johnny Standridge 2 wrote:
I'm sure if parents are smart enough to realize that the demons featured in the Yu-Gi-Oh! card game aren't going to turn their children into mass-murdering cultists, then the demons in a pen-and-paper game that fosters imagination and good reading skills are also safe.

Well, see, in today's world, reading is baaaad. So is creativity. Ergo, all the yuppie parents with 2.5 children will scream "witch!" every time their children learn. Because useful knowledge is verboten.

Aw jeez... Listen to me, lamenting the downward spiral that today's youth are on, and I'm not even old enough to buy alcohol. Just forget about it.


The Eldritch Mr. Shiny wrote:
Well, see, in today's world, reading is baaaad. So is creativity. Ergo, all the yuppie parents with 2.5 children will scream "witch!" every time their children learn. Because useful knowledge is verboten.

That's No Child Left Behind for you... we all get to slide into the dark ages together.


Johnny Standridge 2 wrote:
I'm sure if parents are smart enough...

Never a safe assumption.

Liberty's Edge

Kirth Gersen wrote:
The Eldritch Mr. Shiny wrote:
Well, see, in today's world, reading is baaaad. So is creativity. Ergo, all the yuppie parents with 2.5 children will scream "witch!" every time their children learn. Because useful knowledge is verboten.
That's No Child Left Behind for you... we all get to slide into the dark ages together.

Well, if the dark ages are back...

DIBS ON A FEUDAL ESTATE!


Teiflingman wrote:
it will make stories richer....teiflings are alot more interesting than a human or an elf.....we know just about every thing about them lets explore some thing else for awile

I do not need a gimmick to make my character interesting.

Liberty's Edge

CourtFool wrote:
Teiflingman wrote:
it will make stories richer....teiflings are alot more interesting than a human or an elf.....we know just about every thing about them lets explore some thing else for awile
I do not need a gimmick to make my character interesting.

Rorg.


The Eldritch Mr. Shiny wrote:
Rorg.

For someone who has existed for eternity, you would think you could come up with something a tad bit more eloquent. (evil grin)

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

DarkWhite wrote:
It doesn't seem a bad choice - diffuses the "everyone wants to be a drow" syndrome.

I'm gonna play a Drow Tiefling!

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

so if there are no gnomes is 4e, what happens to House Sivis in Eberron?

Do they all become another race all of sudden?


Mactaka wrote:

so if there are no gnomes is 4e, what happens to House Sivis in Eberron?

Do they all become another race all of sudden?

Eberron currently has a number of non players handbook races, it will just have one more. Or the expansion phbII or races of the mines will come out before Eberron's book. I think Eberron isnt getting a 4th book to 2009 anyway.

The Exchange

kahoolin wrote:


Is anyone else getting a bit sick of edgy heroes? They're EVERYWHERE in the media. I used to be all for morally grey good guys but now I'm seriously starting to get a hankering for a principled Paladin who tries to do what's right and isn't snarky, gloomy, merciless or related to a devil.

Absofreakingloutely. Anti-hero was cool from about 1959-76 (Roughly James Dean through Thomas Covenant). It's been done to death now. (Even St. Cuthbert looked like he needed a bath and a shave in the last Core Beleifs.)

You can keep your tieflings. Give me Rooster Cogburn with a greatsword. Better yet, with a greatclub.

Silver Crusade

humans, they need to cut humans out & replace them with glow in dark insect things with 10 arms so they can multi-use & such

pun of course, jeesh!!!

RM


CourtFool wrote:
The Eldritch Mr. Shiny wrote:
Rorg.
For someone who has existed for eternity, you would think you could come up with something a tad bit more eloquent. (evil grin)

It's an eternity of experience concisely condensed into a single syllable. Quite profound in its majesty and simplicity.


Shiny is like a Tralfamadorian. You see "Rorg." He sees a 17,000-syllable hymn to the eternal, reverberating simultaneously into the past and future.


Teiflingman wrote:
honnestly i would love for the teifling to be in it my favorite race to play is the teifling there, i love playing the misunderstood good guy who allyays tries to help. and if there core then that will have more people clearing up there name....bot every one likes playing a evil guy so change him to a good guy whoes haunted by his ancesetory. it will make stories richer....teiflings are alot more interesting than a human or an elf.....we know just about every thing about them lets explore some thing else for awile

Correction: Tiefling is cooler than any human or elf you can be bothered to imagine. It's not that much of a stretch to "exoticize" and elf or human, simply say they came from a different culture or had an odd upbringing and suddenly they aren't boring anymore.

heck, you can say your human had a demon grandaddy simply adjust how he interacts with ohers, give him an interesting backstory and possibly a demonic feat as his human bonus feat.


Rogue Modrons were one of the most fun races to play. I say we ditch the Tiefling and put that in the core instead.


GAAAHHHH wrote:
Rogue Modrons were one of the most fun races to play. I say we ditch the Tiefling and put that in the core instead.

Id go with it, though it wouldn't be easy to make very serious or dark campaigns. ^_^


I want flumphs as a core race--they could replace halflings. And forlarrens instead of tieflings. And dralasites instead of dwarves. Yeah! Replace elves with caterwauls. And include furcots as animal companions. Don't know where I'm going with this, except to rally support for the poor beleaguered gnomes.


Mactaka wrote:

so if there are no gnomes is 4e, what happens to House Sivis in Eberron?

Do they all become another race all of sudden?

I think they're talking about taking Gnomes out of the PHB as a core PC race, not mercilessly eradicating them...

Slash and burn on the Gnomes everyone! Cull the little bastards!


GAAAHHHH wrote:
Rogue Modrons were one of the most fun races to play. I say we ditch the Tiefling and put that in the core instead.

Absolutely! Well, at least, I'm all for bringing back the Modrons and even including them as a Core Race.

But, really, what *is* a Core Race? I mean, come on. We're all adults here. Someone will either make a good conversion or it'll be out in another supplement. The whole *idea* of a "Core Race" is simply an artificiality. They cannot include every bloody race in the initial rulebook. There wouldn't be enough space! Or, if they did, the costs would be prohibitive for folks who don't win the Powerball every Wednesday or Saturday! There's only so many Ptolus-sized books I can afford on my salary ;)!

So, it's no big deal. They told us in advanced that any "cut" would be in the next supplement. No wukkas, folks.

For all you Gnome-lovers out there...don't worry. If, indeed, they're not in the initial PHB, they'll be back. For those who don't like the Tiefling, don't use them. I mean, my homebrew campaign takes a shot at the Dwarves by pretty much eliminating them from the main nation. Not that I like Dwarves, Gnomes or Halflings--Baldur's Balls, I'd see *all* of those races left aside if I could!--but I still have them in my campaign setting. I just don't utilise them much.

Also, don't worry about the fundamentalists of any stripe. They've enough to be concerned about as it is and D&D is small beans to them. Besides, why *shouldn't* we have a game as edgy as we want? Why cater to the folks who're out to knock off your hobby in the first place? I couldn't *stand* 2E initially for that very reason. No demons, no devils, no demodads, no Half-Orcs, no Assassin class...gee, how bleeding vanilla can you get? And you think *that* stopped the likes of those who hated D&D and spread all that nonsensical rumour-mongerings about? No, not one iota. They didn't even notice the change. You don't appease such types. You ignore them.

Just remember, folks: ROGUE MODRONS RULE!!! Down with the usurper formians! (Hey, where's the bug spray when you need it? ;-) ) BTW, who decided it was a good idea to more or less replace the iconic representatives of LN? I mean, if they were going to do that, the Inevitables are a whole lot more appropriate than the...bugs.

:::shudders:::

No, I *don't* like bugs.


Karelzarath wrote:
For someone who has existed for eternity, you would think you could come up with something a tad bit more eloquent. (evil grin)
It's an eternity of experience concisely condensed into a single syllable. Quite profound in its majesty and simplicity.

Oh.


Mactaka wrote:
Do they all become another race all of sudden?

I'd like to change race, but I am stuck being a human.

Oh, err..

You meant in a D&D game, right?

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