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wotc knows where their bread is buttered
(FR sales more than double the combined sales of all other settings combined and you are fooling yourself to think any differently)
What a ridiculous statement. Of course FR is outselling "all other settings combined". Have you seen how many books WotC puts out for FR?
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What a ridiculous statement. Of course FR is outselling "all other settings combined". Have you seen how many books WotC puts out for FR?wotc knows where their bread is buttered
(FR sales more than double the combined sales of all other settings combined and you are fooling yourself to think any differently)
Better yet, how many books from any other setting period? FR and Eberron is all they have, if they supported Greyhawk at all, it would be way different.
I despise Eberron, and so don't even consider it worthy of being in this discussion. I can't explain it, because I'm not really sure why. I just do. Chalk it up to insanity.Ah, company at the asylum. ;) I dislike Eberron because it's not "D&D" to me. Trains do not belong in my D&D. Warforged are just a ridiculous concept and very outside of what I consider fantasy. And so on.
My sentiments exactly. I think Eberron tries too hard to be different in order to set itself apart and to try to look creative. Instead it falls far short of the mark and only achieves "weird."
I love novels set in the realms, but for some reason I just don't like gaming in the realms.... Call me strange.
You are perfectly normal as I have seen it. I'm sorry for the insult.
My sentiments exactly. I think Eberron tries too hard to be different in order to set itself apart and to try to look creative. Instead it falls far short of the mark and only achieves "weird."I despise Eberron, and so don't even consider it worthy of being in this discussion. I can't explain it, because I'm not really sure why. I just do. Chalk it up to insanity.Ah, company at the asylum. ;) I dislike Eberron because it's not "D&D" to me. Trains do not belong in my D&D. Warforged are just a ridiculous concept and very outside of what I consider fantasy. And so on.
I have to agree with it just being too weird. It's like they tried to turn a square into a diamond but instead of shining, it fell over and is now a funny parallelogram. Although warforged are one of the few concepts that does interest me. The whole paradox of a living construct.
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Eberron introduced a lot of interesting concepts, but the campaign world fell a little short of the mark for me too. IMO, there was good stuff and bad stuff about the new setting:
The Positive:
1) New 0 LA races. The shifter and changeling are neat additions as are the warforged (although I'd argue an LA +1 because of the long list of immunities).
2) Class Options. Artificers are very neat class that I wish they'd introduced earlier. The number of class abilities might be a little overpowered, but none more than a druid or cleric. The concept of Druidic orders with different agendas/feats/class skills appealed too.
3) Action Points. I know that the concept was introduced in Unearthed Arcana, but to actually have a campaign setting that promoted their use and feats/PrC's related to them made them a great addition to the game.
4) Blank Slate in History. The detailed timeline dropped all kinds of plot hooks and interesting background to create a common reference for all campaigns. After that, there's a defined start date that all DMs can use as their campaign launch point. That start date was set at a point where there's a lot of interesting themes to explore in game.
The Negative:
1) Oversimplified Pantheon. Creating a universal pantheon for all races and cultures was a little simplistic IMO. While I liked the fact that the gods are very hands off in their involvment in the world, but to exclude racial deities seemed silly to me. A kobold is not going to worship the same pantheon as the drow.
2) Steampunk/Magicpunk(?). I know that this is not really a steampunk world, but the having trains and zeppelins and hovoring forts falls outside of my conventional view of what a fantasy setting is about. Magic used as widespread technology is a bit irksome for me.
3) Really Messed Up Cosmology. Interesting idea about having different planes touching the Prime at different times, but waaaaay too complicated a concept to implement without some sort of giant brain in a jar to keep track of it for you.
What to do? What to do? I liked a lot of the concepts introduced in ECS, but didn't care for the world, so I just took the parts that I liked about Eberron and dropped them into my own homebrew world. So now my campaign setting has Half-orcs, Shifters and Changelings being the result of directed breeding by an ancient empire to create their supersoldiers and abandoned those projects in favour of the Warforged. It might not be as detailed a world as Eberron (yet), but it's home. :)
Back to the discussion at hand. Making the FR as the signature campaign for D&D 4 makes good sense since so many people (including myself) play in it. It has that sense of familiarity, and obviously a lot of people care deeply about it. It will remain to be seen how they're going to handle the whole affair. Will the changeover involve another world-altering cataclysm (all those poor commoners with their "Leave Us Alone Mel Brooks" signs), or will it be a quiet transition as if nothing ever happened? I guess we'll find out in August 2008.
I always run my games in Greyhawk, and make a point of introducing as many new people to dungeons and dragons through this campaign world. Its classic D and D. The words "The Forgotten Realms" are never heard around my game table, and I will do everthing in my limited power to ensure that future D and D consumers thirst for official Greyhawk related material.
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My guess is they go by sales. The amount of product sold to support Forgotten Realms probably exceeds the product sold to support any other setting. I'm sure they took into account the sales of Dungeon and Dragon to determine this as well.
With WotC, you KNOW it's all about the bottom line, and the bottom line for them is Realms, Eberron, then everything else. Never mind that they produce more product to support these settings than anything else, so the sales numbers are slightly skewed...but hey, that never stopped them before...
I'm just surprised (and thankful) they haven't bothered to create a D&D setting based on the Magic CCG...
They did some market research on an M:tG based D&D setting back when 3.0 came out. The lack of interest in it was overwhelming, so they quietly dropped the idea and pretended they'd never had it.
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My biggest problem with the FR franchise is the lack of an arm's length relationship between the fiction and the campaign setting. Many are the timelines where characters from the novels figure prominently in world events.It gives me the impression that the heroics of our own characters are sort of second rate in comparison. I don't want to play the guy who shook Luke's hand after he destroyed the Death Star, I want to play Luke! I hope it's safe to let that spoiler out...it's only been 30 years ;)
I love the FR although I am getting ready to play in Varisia in the next couple of months. I agree with Xuttah though that every fiction book that comes out seems to effect the setting and that makes things pretty conplicated. Good fiction books are almost always over the top and over the top does not always make a good setting.
I have not played any Eberron and am considering whether it would be worth picking up the books in case I want to try it in the future.
Greyhawk is always fun but I never played it enough to have a handle on the world.
Ravenloft is my favorite setting but it is not a setting I would probably play a whole campaign in. And even if I was to play a whole campaign there I would not go for a second campaign there. It is for special occasions.
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My biggest problem with the FR franchise is the lack of an arm's length relationship between the fiction and the campaign setting. Many are the timelines where characters from the novels figure prominently in world events.It gives me the impression that the heroics of our own characters are sort of second rate in comparison. I don't want to play the guy who shook Luke's hand after he destroyed the Death Star, I want to play Luke! I hope it's safe to let that spoiler out...it's only been 30 years ;)
I love the FR although I am getting ready to play in Varisia in the next couple of months. I agree with Xuttah though that every fiction book that comes out seems to effect the setting and that makes things pretty conplicated. Good fiction books are almost always over the top and over the top does not always make a good setting.
I have not played any Eberron and am considering whether it would be worth picking up the books in case I want to try it in the future.
Greyhawk is always fun but I never played it enough to have a handle on the world.
Ravenloft is my favorite setting but it is not a setting I would probably play a whole campaign in. And even if I was to play a whole campaign there I would not go for a second campaign there. It is for special occasions.
I know what you guys mean. In recent books we've seen some of the following:
The rage of dragons and apparent death of Sammaster.
Vhaerun was killed and his essence absorbed by Eilistraee. If my spelling of either name is off, then sorry.
A massive civil war begining in Thay.
The city of Ordulin (in Sembia) was apparently completely destroyed by an army of wraiths.
These are all major events with world spanning repercussions, most of which the PCs have almost no chance of affecting in any way.
Granted, as many people point out, the DM of a particular game can ignore whatever he wants.