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![]() SunKing wrote:
I'd note one minor problem with the "Up the damage dice" idea, namely that.. I remember most people saying that in general damage dice don't matter that much. 1d10 to 2d6 goes from a 5.5 average to a 7 average (so 1.5) and 1d8 to 1d10 is a 1 damage difference. Although the increased dice DOES make them more useful for Vital Strike builds. ![]()
![]() Thanks for the clarification, and on Smiting I less think of "Is it a first level ability?" and more.. The worry that made me ask "How defensive are they?" is thinking of the worst case scenario being that they basically have one way to play "Right" and other ways just becomes "wrong", because "if you wanted to use a big sword and smite down heretics why aren't you just playing a fighter and take a cleric multi class feat or something because everything champions do is connected to retribution". Also on Smite Evil as a Spell. I think that could work, let them grab it as a power to spend points on when they don't feel like doing whatever else champion does (Admittedly I don't have the playtest on hand to really know what things do). I also would like to note that I'm actually... Though again I haven't really gotten to read the playtest books I'm surprisingly happy at how things are coming along so far. It kinda reminds me of the other 'pathfinder 2' attempt from fans called Kirthfinder, and it kinda did a lot of the same stuff (namely EVERY class gets a talent list, and they can spend some of their talents to gain synergy with other classes) but this for some reason just feels a lot more streamlined than that.
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![]() Not to be really stupid but I just want to make a quick note of the phrase "Spells in a juice-box", because for some reason that made me chuckle. Though sorry if I'm just stuck on something stupid but I'm still so surprised that I finally have some semi-logical explanation for why it rubbed me the wrong way for so long. Although it's funny that it also gave me a new appreciation for it and maybe I'll be more open to vancian casting if I get a chance to play in Golarion. Now back to 2e and saying that.. Admittedly I'm not quite sure of what else to say on it for now since I don't know where any of the PDFs aside from the playlets are and I don't know how things have changed, but basically all of my wants for the game are about the same as they originally were. 1: Let gishes be good please
And a question, what are Paladins looking like right now?
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![]() Elfteiroh wrote:
Touche (I admit I haven't properly kept up with PF2 very much just because I haven't had the time to really tear into it). It's more that just whilst writing that post about vancian casting it hit me so suddenly that.. Well I had said my relative distaste for vancian casting a lot in the past, but I never really understood why I had a distaste since it has been relatively balanced, and so many editions have said they were improving it. Yet suddenly it just hit me that I finally had an explanation for WHY I felt something seemed so off about it to me, and I thought to say it. ![]()
![]() Deadmanwalking wrote:
Thanks, though I'm not super sure of where to really start... Well I guess I can start with a minor complaint from what little I know of pf2. I noticed some people saying that proficiency bonuses are more nuanced than 5e because of the multiple tiers (When someone made comparisons to 5e, that person may have been me, I don't remember for sure), but from what I understand each extra level of proficiency just adds a +1. Also I'd like to respond to Albatoonoe's notes on Vancian casting, noting that.. when you put it like that (saying it is the "Evolution of Spells as Rituals") It definitely seems to make it a bit more palatable (And throwing away my salt for a moment that sounds honestly interesting), However I think this particular idea depends more on your prerogative as a GM and/or player. Like using how I nigh constantly compare it to Spheres of Power.
Also as I was writing this and thinking about that "spells as rituals" bit. I realized that all of my disdain for vancian magic as a part of the STORY is directly connected to the class that uses it. Alchemist/Investigator: I LOVE vancian casting on alchemists and it's the one class I'd 100% use vancian over spheres for, because the idea of its magic as specific chemical formulations make the trappings of vancian casting 'click' in my head a lot more. Wizard: Make a lot more sense when thinking of Vancian Casting as rituals, but I still can't help but think that wizarding magic wouldn't be quite THIS exact. Magus: Since it uses the same study as Wizards it makes sense, but at the same time I feel like the idea that they practice a few very specific techniques that they get a lot of use out of (See Spheres of Power and how they can choose a few all day touch attack talents for spell combat) makes sense because of their 'Full Contact Magic' style. (Though admittedly this one is less Story and more Mechanics thinking that a small number of at will abilities to use with spell combat is nice) Clerics: Kinda weird that they have such specific spells when they're calling upon the fickle will of the gods if you ask me, but it makes JUST enough sense (since they have the idea of ritualistic divinity down) that I'm going to leave them out of the next section. Warning: 4 line Rant Incoming: TL:DR: Sorcerers seem like they'd have a way softer magic system than wizards due to their origins:
Sorcerers (and oracles): Sorcerers seem like the Antithesis of Vancian Casting to me, and I know that I'm probably exaggerating but... You're learning the ropes of a strange and temperamental form of magic that you acquired via some distant blood relation (or other ancestral connection) to a magical creature. Yet you use the same Hard, Complex, Ritualistic magic system that the Wizards and Alchemists use. And Oracles are in the same boat because they have some vague connection to the gods that they don't quite understand, but learn the same hard magic as wizards. This just makes no sense to me, at all. (And since the Inherent "I don't quite understand where I got it from but I'm made of magic" classes are my personal favorite of the full casters this just makes the problem all the more obvious) Edit: the rant was only 8.5 lines in the editor, not in the post itself. ![]()
![]() Bear with me for a moment (Yes I know that pun was bearly bearable.. ok I'll stop) but the Bear Sphere, despite the bad puns and it obviously being an April Fools joke (I also doubt it's very balanced, but what do you expect from an April Fools joke), but I'd just like to note a few things about it. 1: I feel like the idea of "Channeling an animal Spirit" Could have easily been its own sphere along the lines of nature or weather, we have Fire , Water, Earth, Air, Plants, and Metal for druids, but not a whole lot for Animal druids other than Alteration (and nature's Animal Friend talent technically). And maybe a druid doesn't want to transform into animals and merely wants to call upon spirits for power (Yes technically the Spirit Mender would be in this category but it gives up basically any ability to fight and bring the wrath of nature alongside its kindness) 2: The Child of Hope is basically the first time I've ever seriously wanted to play a Druid, because I want to channel my inner Disney Princess/ Dr. Doolittle. I want to walk with the animals. Talk with the animals, grunt and squeak and squawk with the animals! ![]()
![]() Captain Morgan wrote:
Sorry if I sounded overly angry about it, My annoyance at it is more a mechanical issue than a "I think all natural attack options in the game should be permanent", In the original pathfinder the claw abilities were pretty much entirely useless on these classes for the mostpart since you're a half-bab AND only gained them as temporary abilities with a number of uses per day. Looking at it from the gish's perspective... Assuming we want to keep Finesse and the Fire Damage. Short Swords: Grab 2 flaming short swords to gain 1d6S+1d6F damage that you can use all day long, and still gain the agile and finesse bonuses, and you can probably spend some feats or fighter feats to become particularly good at using them. and probably buy some +4 swords down the line to use all day.
Also generally I think that abilities given by your bloodline should probably be better than a spell. ![]()
![]() Good to see that I got some confirmation on what I knew, though I'm still kinda confused about other aspects of it, but from my skimming I wouldn't be sure where to start asking. About the whole "Multiclass archetype feats" since it seems some were shocked by it. I mostly thought ask since that seems like the way one would avoid needing to make things like Magus at all Magus: Make Spellstrike or Spell Combat or other such abilities into multi class feats
Also. reading through more classes can we PLEASE stop making classes with temporary natural attacks? I was excited to be one part draconic sorcerer one part fighter (or barbarian) but then found out that it's just a 'power' that costs an action to activate and then has a duration. Like... No one wants temporary natural attacks, any character using natural attacks wants them to be on all day. ![]()
![]() I guess that's true, and sorry if I've kinda thrown a wrench into things by my actions... Cayden is just really on edge at the moment still, thinking something along the lines of "Okay SOMETHING is up. I don't know what it is, but I need to know what it is before I pull my hair out in frustration because I haven't slept in like 3 days due to missing children and am paranoid that whatever the baron is doing is making something in the woods angry and causing this." Not to even mention the fact that Cayden would think the whole "force wall houses" idea would be kinda silly since... maybe I'm wrong but force isn't an insulator. it doesn't retain heat or cold which means that they'd be bitter cold in winter. ![]()
![]() GM Rednal wrote:
1) Thanks 2) My mistake on armor training, I can never quite seem to get it right since I keep mixing it up to think "get light and medium, buy it again to get heavy" when it's the opposite, but it's still a bit talent heavy considering..
3) I did consider the martial armorist (it was what made me originally think to go for a martial tradition in the first place over just paying an arsenal trick. 4) also not to go off on a side tangent but I kinda want to know why Sentient Cannon is an exclusive trick. I mean like you could easily have a "Sapient Equipment" talent that just makes you choose a piece of bound equipment to become a sentient item. ![]()
![]() I'll give you that Kirth, I guess I'm just a bit strange and picky about it, it helped to hear you say it out loud as weird as that is to say. Though whilst I'm yabbering about alchemists, have an esoteric branch idea. Alchemy
First Level School Power: Infusion. When choosing your spells for the day, you put your magical energy into physical form. This gives you the benefit that others may use your spells as though they had cast them themselves by imbibing or throwing the infusion (whichever seems more fitting for the spell). They must use the same action as it would take you to cast it, but do not suffer from Spell Failure chance or need components (material components or foci are considered part of the infusion itself) School Bonus:
Grand Alchemy: At twentieth level, you gain an understanding of a powerful and long sought after formula, such as the Philosopher's Stone or the Elixir of Youth. (basically the same thing as the alchemist capstone in vanilla) ![]()
![]() To start off, I say "Semi-Open Semi-private" because of the fact that I had already started getting a group together in the Undying Light campaign thread. However I decided to somewhat put that campaign on hold due to fears of my lack of experience. I would not try to straight up and down make the thread totally private, so feel free to say hello and see if we have a free spot for you, but I am going to prioritize those that I had already planned with. [u]Rules[/u]
Modules
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![]() Set wrote:
This is about inconsequential animals, not the coolest f&!#ing thing I've ever heard of ![]()
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![]() blahpers wrote: Mage armor conjures a physical force. Intractable distance, eh, I really don't see how it's abjuration. Seems more like transmutation. I guess that's the thing that caused Abjuration to get kinda canned, because some of the most major ones like Mage Armor get shoved under other schools. Though here's a few more ideas. Magnetic Shield
Magnetic Draw
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![]() I wanted to actually mention somewhat that... I do think that within the system that there is none, but I like the idea of a setting based around a 'good' eldtrich being. It reminds me a lot of Darkest Dungeon, we never actually get to see what 'The Light' is, we don't even know if it is a real entity or if it is just the spark of magic within humanity. Though more to the point, I personally believe that within that kind of setting that the idea of your good god of light and puppies being just as much of an eldritch abomination as the most evil creatures in the multiverse would be fascinating to play with. ![]()
![]() Kaouse wrote:
Let's Try this again I guess I'll also say my preliminary worry would be on the Mageknight page, since so far most of what I did was give it a bunch of new options based on its archetypes as a 'specialization'. Edit: and the other worry is coming up for changes for the other classes to make them worthy. ![]()
![]() Well I've got another slightly exciting thing I can say. I've started working out base classes to spheres!
Sphere Bard
Minstrel: Focus Casting (instrument), Skilled Casting (Perform (Music)), Vocal Casting, and Somatic casting.. In exchange for these drawbacks they can use the same action to both cast a sphere effect and concentrate on an Inspiration or even another sphere effect at the same time. Their drawbacks are unusual in that they only apply to half of your spells. When casting a spell through word or song you use your Vocal drawback, whilst playing your instrument to cast you use your Focus casting and Somatic drawbacks Skald: Skalds gain just the Vocal and Skilled Casting (Linguistics) drawbacks, and can maintain concentration on a spell or Inspration as a Move action whilst using a weapon to attack with a Standard action. Sphere Cleric
The spheres associated with each domain are as follows:
Air
Ancestors
Animal
Archery
Artifice
Chaos
Charm
Community
Cudgel
Cultist
Darkness
Death
Desert
Destruction
Earth
Entropy
Evil
Fire
Glory
Good
Healing
Inquisition
Law
Liberation
Luck
Madness
Magic
Mind
Nobility
Plant
Possession
Protection
Repose
Rune
Scalykind
Strength
Suffering
Sun
Time
Travel
Trickery
Vermin
Void
War
Water
Weather
Winter
Incarnate: The Base Sphere Oracle actually works almost perfectly for KF's incarnate because the mystery spells are removed. Casting: The sphere oracle may combine spheres and talents to create magical effects. The sphere oracle is considered a High-Caster and uses Charisma as his casting ability modifier. (Note: All casters gain 2 bonus talents and may select a casting tradition the first time they gain the casting class feature.)
Druid
And druidic initiations are somewhat of a mixed bag regarding Spheres characters because the spells tend towards not having a common theme to replicate with one sphere.. But here are some of the simpler ones Blighter: Death (ghost touch related powers) Sorcerer
Here are some things worth note. Arcane: use the Basic blast and gain Crafted Blast.
Battle Sorcerer
Wizard
Improved Spell Capacity: You instead gain one Advanced sphere talent of your choice, regardless of GM Fiat, but you still need to meet the prereqs.
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![]() Asmodeus' Advocate wrote:
I love that you mention Spheres, not just because I personally love the system but the fact that its system works great for this kind of idea... though at the same time there's a small issue with using this for the blood magic of the world anyway. It sounds like OP wants casting to be a really big deal when it comes to draining any character, but blood magic in Spheres inversely affects different kinds of casters. Conjurers with enough investment (Base Talent + Elongated casting to get the Greater Summoning talent and using one of your starting form talents for Lingering companion) you can have your companion up for 24 hours. meaning that the loss from blood magic is minimal because you spend maybe 1-2 hp at the start of the day and just heal it off with time. Basically so long as you don't have to cast more than once per hour (which is possible) you don't lose anything from it. Blasters get absolutely shafted by blood magic in any form because even though they're not putting in any investment of points into it they're taking damage constantly. I will also say that you're right in regards to "it can be interesting so try it" but... To steal a quote from fawful's minion. "There's no more of a b+$!% way to go than accidentally killing yourself"
I can't help but think that if a player lost their character because they either spent too much on the spells they need, or because their healer didn't have enough hp to survive healing their wounds. Tables would be flipped Edit/addition: Basically my point is that when I say punishing the player more than the character, the most un-fun thing you can do as a GM is to take a character and make them not good at the thing they're supposed to contribute to the party. ![]()
![]() I will say I adore the idea of this. It reminds me of the Dashing Swordsman prestige class from Order of the Stick. If I were to make any major change though, I would do the following. Strong Convictions: In exchange for this penalty they gain the ability to automatically treat One will save each day as though it was a natural 20 (either this or give them an immunity to compulsion) Something Dumb: Allow them to roll to do something minor that actually affects gameplay (using one of the examples from the original, turning a foe's hands into tacos would make them unable to use those hands if they fail a save VS a CL roll from the gentleman. Advertisement: Essentially make this act as Renown from the Vigilante. Basically you can gain an area in which you can persuade people to recognize you. This can be used to spread rumors about you as a fighter to gain a bonus to intimidate, or allow you to make people have an opinion on you 1 step higher. Pleasurable Smells: the "Nose Stuff" thing it mentions is replaced with the ability to reroll saves against poison. Alternate Uniforms: Spheres of Might comparibility by allowing a Gentleman with these on to take the Warleader Sphere and one Shout, but they can only use that one shout with this. The Towel allows them to fascinate creatures that would be attracted to them. New Haircut: instead of giving a level to all other party members, allow the new haircut to give them resistance or immunity to Polymorph. MBA: Another thing stolen from Spheres of Might, essentially make this similar to the Commander's ability to call in specialists. Being of Pure Energy: make this more like the Paladin's capstone. |