Tyncale's page

1 million to bring this game to what exactly? A few extra barebone features in their first buggy iteration, while still no water in the rivers and stock-art bridges still clipping out of the landscape everywhere?

This game needs an entire new development team, a new engine, a new approach to the core mechanics and *at least* 20-40 million.

I should not be reading old blogs; makes me mad and sad at the same time. :(

To be sure: these Adventurer Rewards do not give backdated xp to the second character you set to training, if you use the reward on an existing account. That second character will start to train from wherever his XP is at. From that point on, there will be two characters gaining 2400xp per day though.

So this is only a good buy if you believe in pfo going forward: it is not a fast way to a backlog of xp. If you are unsure about the future of pfo and consider the chances high that service will end soon, then you may be sorry that you bought these. These rewards and the DT perk are a big boon, but only if you believe in a bright future for pfo. :)

I am not paying for access to the game, I am paying for my monthly box of XP. I know I can not access the game if I do not pay but there's a difference there.

The game is slowly getting better and I hope they can manage to make it so much fun that more people will want to play it. When that happens, they will also be willing to pay for their XP, just like hundreds of thousands of people are willing to pay for EvE and for World of Warcraft.

For me the game is fun enough already, so I am happy to start accumulating XP so soon already.

2 things though:

I totally understand that for many the game is not fun enough so they do not want to pay for their XP yet;
I also understand that there is a serious risk that the game will fold before it ever gets fun for the larger crowd; development certainly is slow and I feel the GW team is clearly a rookie in many things, (well, they are). So it's a definate risk to start liking this game so much that you want to pay the sub: it may fold because we are not talking Cryptic Studios here or Blizzard or Bethesda, who can crank out a MMO/game and not even blink. It's a start up.

I am weighing those factors and so far I am still willing to keep subbing.

Good stuff. That Emerald Spire Dungeon *must* materialize some day in PFO, it could be one of the main draws to the game at some point, both from a PvE and PvP perspective.

I realize it's a massive amount of work, but it looks to cool to pass on.

I do not agree with the whole XP-gap thing, and the perceived unfairness about a batch of players that already are closing in on tier 3.

First, I sense a contradiction with those people: they do not think the game is worth a 15 dollar subscription in its current state so they keep harping on that fact. At the same time, when the game reaches a playable state in their minds, all of a sudden, they think it is unfair that certain players already have XP.

XP for which they will be paying the exact same amount of dollars for, exept later, for a game in a much more finished state. Where's the unfairness in that? Unfair to us, who paid for their XP while the game was unfinished still? ;)

Also, I am convinced that if the game is fun, players will come and not bother with the fact that they start "behind the curve". This game will need to cater to other players then just those hardcore competitive PvP folk anyway if it ever wants to be successful. This is not an Arena-match where you start late, with all sorts of handicaps: it's a rich engaging Fantasyworld with lots of PvE and Building and social stuff.

Sad to see someone go whose thinking is probably much in line with my own expectations of the game. Sorry I gave you a hard time about the PM thing, Deianira.

I am apparently a "Glass is Half-empty" person so this Crowdforging thing is hard for me.

The reason I am still around is because the design doc is still the best thing since sliced bread and so far they have not strayed from it, at least in my view. There is also a freedom to the game that I like: one of them being that you can trade everything and nothing is BoP or BoE. The one-world (buggy and all)is a treat too, even though its repetitive. And yes, the PvP which I fear but gives it meaning.

But development is so slow; content delivery, bug-squashing and polish is sooooo slow that I sometimes feel like Al Smithy, Bludd or Andius and think they can not deliver. I am positive there is talent on the team, but GW sure as hell isn't what I would call a well oiled, lean and mean development machine. And many MMO's have proven to be unviable and become dead in the water. There is still a chance that the coolness of Eve simply can not be translated to a Fantasy world. I have seen many cool concepts die. Lisa is not crazy: she is not going to risk her business by throwing money at PFO forever.

Also, if I ever saw a "Glass is Half Full person", Nihimon, you are it.

I am thoroughly intrigued. :) Don't forget, if the glass drops it was already half empty anyway in my case. In your case it was still half full, so a MUCH bigger mess and loss. ;)

EDIT: I want to leave something for the OP to inspire him. Yesterday, PFU was doing a World tour, visiting locations all around the world, also to get Achievements. Community focus like that is awesome, the fact that this is one, big world helps immensely with that. I am not sure how all that will translate to when the game is much fuller, but I do feel that events and initiatives like that are inherent to this game's design. It *is* really a Players world.

It will not *only* be Wars and Strife and PvP. Players will balance it into a social environment like you have never seen.

Yes, towns will be razed: but I can also see serverwide initiatives to get a loved Settlement back on their feet. I can see fickle "Seize Fires" while harvesters from across the lands flock together carrying goods to kickstart a new settlement.

I am not much of a roleplayer, but because of how the world is set up, I can see stuff like festivals actually being cool: trying to attend one may be an adventure in itself, due to distance and political uproar.

I also expect "Red Weddings"......

I think Nihimon could have better said "If you are still inspired with the vision..." rather then "Ïf you were inspired...."

Maybe that was what he meant to say anyway.

Even so, I am pretty sure that anyone who is still inspired by the vision, and lets his sub run but does not play for now, does so in the hopes of coming back to a huge pile of XP when the game finaly starts to deliver on the vision.

This is the cynic in me, I guess. Or it's just me. :)

Funding, with a return of investment ;)

Not a troll, but for sure short tempered, abrasive and prone to resort to personal insults when people disagree with him. I guess this community is just too nice sometimes. People even gave him some benevolent smiles about the grass thing which was annoying as hell.

The guy has been on ignore for a long time now.

I originally made this post in a thread on the GW forums but I figured I could make a thread here so you guys can shoot holes in it. It was triggered by the unhappiness that many people have expressed over the past two years about the fact that you can lose access to Skills/feats when you loose the support of your settlement. (Temporarily). People are afraid this will be something that people may quit over.

You can also discuss it here on the GW forums in the Crowdforging forums: Can the game do without the training support feature?

Here goes:

I can see roughly 4 pillars currently on which the value of a Settlement(and thus the value for its members) is resting:

• The intrinsic value of its built-up real estate, through concerted effort over time from its members; buildings, Holdings, Outposts. A very important pillar.
  
• Derived from this effort is the ability to train, and to support this (and other)training.
  
• The settlements(more or less valuable) location in the Geographical, Economic and Political framework of the land.
  
• Derived from the first 3, a social cohesive community that has formed through this effort; the supported training is probably an important factor in maintaining the cohesion, though lots of others things will contribute to that too (friends, history, location, Economic and Political goals, playstyle)
  

I think a large part will scatter though, driven to places where they can get appropriate training support.

I am not saying this is a bad thing! I am actually pretty sure that Settlement Communities are expected to be challenged by this sort of thing. They are not meant to stick together forever as a goal per se.

However, looking at those 4 pillars, I am wondering if ditching part of the second pillar, the training-support feature, would really lead to stagnation in the Game of Thrones. I am wondering if there would still not be plenty of strife, Wars, unequality, Greed, greener pastures, scarcity and animosity, and most importantly, incentives to put effort in your settlement, if you take away the pillar of Training Support.

The big worry would be, that in the end, every member of every Settlement, will have the stuff trained that he wants, and have forever access to those skills(through Alliances, settlement-hopping). This could take away the incentive to upgrade your Settlement, at least for this reason. But there are still a lot of other things that a Settlement could work for, and upgrade. Training itself, Safety, faster Crafting queues, more buildings, better AH features, stronger Walls and so forth. In the same vein, those things set a Settlement apart, like Alignment, which Training, available buildings, quality of those buildings, More or less Safety and such.

Big Questions:

• will leaving out the Training Support feature bring the Economic and Political engines of this game to a grinding halt?
  
• Will Settlements lose Identity?
  
• Will it become too hard for settlements to keep their numbers, because players are no longer "bound" to a settlement for access to their skills?
  
• Will we get hordes of opportune drifters? Or will players stick to(and stand up for) their settlements for other reasons?

At that point it would be better to set up shop in Thornkeep for the next week and make my stuff there as the good hex is in that area.

I did that with my smelter: there is no copper around Callambea and I needed Copper Bars, so I took off to Thornkeep, made a few gathering trips and converted the heavy Copper Ore into Copper Bars +3 which are much lighter then the resources to make them. Then after two days, ran home with 150 Copper bars +3 in my inventory.

Not saying this is the ultimate solution for every shortage: the game will have other mechanics for that like the Caravan system. If a settlement has need of 2000 beastpelts then on some day you can hire a PC merchant that runs a caravan to do that. Or you can hire smaller services like Grips or Coach's to make runs for you.

This is one part of the game I love: figuring out ways to get your hands on the stuff you need. This is not just working as intended, it's fun! Well, at least for me.

Truth is, it's us shiny-loving, homedwelling, crafter-loving, safety-seeking, PvE mongering Carebears that, in the end, are the reason that conflict will exist in this world, since it is you competitive and action loving players that will want to try to take it away from us and make our homes unsafe, take our lands and "ruin" our PvE(make dangerous).

You need the civilians who want peace and quiet and shiny and lewtz, so that you can kick down our Lego-dreams(or want it for your own Carebears), so that we can get mad and rally to our cause by employing more of you!

You need Beauty and Stability so that Chaos and Destruction can follow.

Everytime one of us sighs "I wish we could PvE in peace for once", another seed has been planted for strife. Everytime you take away a shiny, we will cry foul and want revenge.

This is one of the reasons that I believe so much work is going into Escalations. You need PvE players in this game and GW knows it: you just need those that can see the bigger picture.

I have similar experiences as ZomoZ, then again, I am in the North, part of Xeilias and mostly playing on eurotimes. And even then, very cautious with an eye on the minimap.

I expect it to change very much. However, I hope that it will change not just in a "there's more people so more chance of getting ganked" way.

Fast Travel, Blinds, SAD, Caravans, Factions, Holdings, Feuds, Guards patrolling the Main Roads(that are still flagged as NPC hexes after all), Wars and the possibility to be able to check someone's Company and Settlement affiliation should provide the more interesting means of getting involved in PvP(and Parley and Diplomacy and Treason and Espionage and Assasination and Scouting and all those much cooler aspects of PvP then just hitting on a gatherer).

I wish we could see Company and Settlement affiliation in the name tags.

It looks like the Game of Thrones and territorial instincts are developing as intended, but the gamesystems are lagging behind. :(

It's been a week since the Blackwood Glade fiasco. A variety of events have resulted in a respite from banditry.

This is time we've all had to digest last week's banditry as well as Ryan's 2/26/15 advice to banditry victims.

You've all been working on your social cohesion strategies, right?

You've all read the PFO-University forum thread named Mobile Nodes: How to avoid becoming one, right?

When a gatherer sees forum famous bandits they will immediately run away while getting on the batphone to call for help, right?

Everyone is ready to drop what they're doing at any time and rush to aid their friends and allies in trouble, right?

Alternatively, you have hired muscle to respond, right?

I'd ask if you've all tried to pay tribute in exchange for safety, but I already know that you haven't. I consider that... most unfortunate. Hopefully you've done enough of the other things I listed above to make up for that.

Good luck and may the odds ever be in your favor.

Could you be more annoying?

Tyncale wrote:

I don't think that in this stage of the development of the game, anyone could have done much more. Players like the BWG members (and me, for that matter) are vulnerable now because the big picture is not there yet.

It's not like Golgotha razed their settlement. But it is currently very easy to make people feel they have no place here.

The accurate thought for such a victim truly is "they have no place here", but I'd redefine "here" to mean that LOCATION.

They could have used the same wisdom that Hammerfall did and evacuated from an obvious buffer position while waiting for the game mechanics to (perhaps) make a settlement more defensible, and to simply give themselves time and space to lessen their exposure while also granting themselves the time to learn to defend or hire others to do it (since they were so committed against paying off enemies).

Hammerfall's would be the ideal response, yes. :) Can't always expect that though, and the outcome is rather sad.

I also think there is a division to be made between how an individual player reacts to a mishap, and the effect that can be had currently on an entire settlement/guild. I am sure that in the future, even with all gamesystems implemented, we will see players come and then leave after being looted once; even if they are part of the strongest, safest Settlement in the game.

It is true that BWG as a group could have reacted in another fashion. I do think that they got hit soon and hard though. I just think a group like theirs would have had more chance of adapting, in a more developed game and social enviroment (with notably more players too).

Maybe they would never have survived here, that's true.

I don't think that in this stage of the development of the game, anyone could have done much more. Players like the BWG members (and me, for that matter) are vulnerable now because the big picture is not there yet.

It's not like Golgotha razed their settlement. But it is currently very easy to make people feel they have no place here.

It's a pity.

I hope in the future, that there will be enough players, game-systems and political framework, that large parts of the server will (be able to) come to the rescue of any Settlement that is enriching the world of Golarion, and is in danger of getting annihilated.

I am not saying Blackwood Glade was there yet, but Roleplay-initiatives like that could really spice up the place. Sure, it would have required putting effort into Diplomacy for them too, but right now it was too soon, too fast. Indeed an accident, in a too early stage of the game.

In the future I would expect a Settlement or "cohesive group of people" not to be snuffed out quit so quickly. There will be more players, fortifications, enough time to create alliances, *much* more time to react and most importantly, lots more players that will *want* to react, in order to prevent the extinction of a settlement that is maybe bringing something unique to the game.

Nothing *truly* comes for free, this includes the help from other players, but right now there simply was too little framework yet to prevent this accident from happening.

Mind you, we *will* loose cool settlements that may have been around for years in the future, but at least I expect that several Wars have been fought over it first, or at least many Feuds, that Diplomacy will have been involved, and that the members of that settlement will at least have the feeling that the players (the game) cared and tried to stop it. I am also sure that when such an event happens that lots of help can be expected to get such a group on their feet again.

However, right now that is probably very hard to see for players such as the members of BWG.

At this stage, I would call the downfall of the Blackwood Glade Settlement a premature event, and a HUGE anti-climax.

(I also expect some settlements to go in decline, loose their social bonds and then be assimilated/annihilated, but that's another matter)

I'd hope that GW decides to only have guards near bank and at respawn shrines.

I strongly disagree.

What you seem to want is an ever-vigilant and combat-ready playerbase that are on a constant watch, and in such numbers, that they can effectively create some level of safety in a Settlement. I don't want that game, and I also think such a game will never reach serious membership numbers.

A wealthy and succesfull Settlement should be able to increase their NPC defenses in such a way that they can safeguard their members within their settlements for anything exept a full on Siege. A less succesfull settlement that spends less on guards could be less safe.

*Players* should be the safeguard for anything that happens outside such a settlement, exept for NPC roads where there could be some level of NPC-security(but not much).

If you completely leave Settlement safety to the players, and only protect a tiny area near the Bank with Thornguards, then the game will have lost all purpose to me. Which is work towards a thriving settlement that I can call home, and feel safe in.

It's also a great dichotomy:

Settlement: Home and safe.
Outside Settlement: Exiting and Dangerous.

If it's always Exiting and Dangerous, then you are making a different and much smaller game.

Schedim, I propose caution with this. There is about zero PvP going on yet, and most of the durability loss is due to PvE deaths.

This makes people believe they have total control and they can actually keep sitting on their precious Dwarven Banded +1 Armor forever, while in fact they are wearing nothing more then a Consumable with 20 uses.

Once more people come into the game, and we get feuds, wars, factions, fights for Holdings and lots of banditry, this mindset needs to change into "hey, only churned through 3 armors this week, let me see if I have some more left in the bank".

It pains me to say this, since if there's anyone here that has learned to covet his precious "Lewtz" in Themepark MMO's without player-looting and durability loss, it's me.

Not saying everyone will churn through 3 armors a week, but in fact those that really want to put them to good use, most likely will.

This is pretty awesome. Thanks for doing this, Axi.

Seriously though, do it in the Inn next time. Inns need love, I will keep saying this untill I am blue in the face. :)

I propose to add a few chairs and tables to the Inn (I have actually seen screens where they had those already in the Inn) and maybe the /sit animation could be the first one to be implemented! Just a sit pose, no fancy "click on a chair and sit on it" hoopla.

Way to go guys! Maybe once do a Fireside at 4pm Eastern on a weekend day, that way Euro's could attend too.

Hey, and I thought I was the cranky one in this thread.

Settlements need to step up

Funny how GW is stubbornly posting important stuff like this on the GW forums (and not here), and some people are stubbornly *not* going there because those forums suck, and then I stubbornly keep linking this shizzle. :)

Maybe some day.....

Gratz! Was the final loot a Cloth Cap? (only for insiders). ;)

If you want to quickly scan dev posts on the Goblinworks forums:

Ryan Dancey on GW forums
Tork Shaw on GW forums
Lee Hammock on GW forums
Stephen Cheney on GW forums
Paul Gilmore on GW forums
Cole Brown on GW forums

They have recently changed around the recipes as to which are common and which are uncommon.

Quote from Lee:

The achievement requirements for crafting skills progression now goes:

Skill level 3: Tier 1 Common +0
Skill level 4: Tier 1 Common +1
Skill level 5: Tier 1 Common +2
Skill level 6: Tier 1 Uncommon +1
Skill level 7: Tier 1 Uncommon +2
Skill level 8: Tier 1 Uncommon +3
Skill level 9: Tier 2 Common +0
Skill level 10: Tier 2 Uncommon +0
Skill level 11: Tier 2 Common +1
Skill level 12: Tier 2 Uncommon +1
Skill level 13: Tier 2 Uncommon +2
Skill level 14: Tier 2 Uncommon +3
Skill level 15: Tier 2 Uncommon +4
Skill level 16: Tier 2 Uncommon +5

Along with what is considered an Uncommon vs Common should be more intuitive.

I think NIhimons docs are reasonably up to date:

Docs

Check out Copy of PFO WIKI Official Data, and look up the Refining and crafting recipes tabs. You will find all recipes there, including a column that sais if its common or uncommon.

The game is in its infancy and I feel for the players that are more combat oriented. If I was a PvP person I would hold off for a while. It really is a crafting sim currently, with some PvP sprinkled over it.

Settlements are non-entities still, no DI, no Company-influence, no PoI's yet that actually mean something to the Company that is holding them, no Feuds, no Wars, no Sieges, no juicy Wagon and Mule trains with goodies driving down the road, no Alignment or Factions, no Couriers hurrying down the road on their Fast Travel horse that you can try to shoot off or put up a blind for.

I think this is how it should be currently, build and strife will come. There is no other way, imo. Even with no rep-loss, there is just too little to fight over. Not enough structure yet.

They are most definately planned for the future. I will give you a few quotes about Fast Travel, that also refers to horses owned by players.

All quotes from Stephen Cheney.

I should have clarified what was meant by Fast Travel. We'll basically have two stages of Fast Travel.

Whenever we get the minimum implementation of the system online, you'll pick up a horse at a stable building that connects along roads to some other stable building. It'll work similarly to speeders in SW:TOR; you'll go fast along the ground (not sure how fast at this point). Unlike TOR, it will be possible to knock you off of your horse if someone can catch you (and then you have to walk the rest of the way); one way to do that will be with Blinds.

Eventually, when players have mounts they can drive precisely, there will still be various incentives for following roads as far as speed, so a Blind that knocks people off their personal horse will still be useful. Unlike stable-based travel, you'll probably be able to get back on a personal mount and resume fast movement once you're done with the bandit encounter.

Quote 2:
The early "talk to a stablemaster to get a horse to a specific point" fast travel will probably exclusively use roads to traverse those points. Once we have player-controllable mounts, you'll almost certainly be able to ride them anywhere at faster than you could walk, but they may achieve their best possible speed on roads.

Quote 3:
We haven't discussed it in much detail, but 4-5x is probably WAY faster than we plan on. Right now, your standard "hustle" speed feels pretty fast if you're not encumbered, and 4-5x that would feel crazy fast. We're thinking right now about not more than double your fastest running speed for the fastest mounts, but we'll have to see how fast that feels once we get that far.

But, with those numbers, probably not much less than a minute to cross a (current) hex even with the best fast travel options with an optimal route.

Next to this there will be a Caravan system for hauling large amount of goods, but those will be pretty slow. Think "Wagon and Mule-train". No specifics yet.

Transport is supposed to become a big thing in PFO, us hoofing it is just the very first iteration.

I have many, many kills on my conto. I never really understand why players keep huddling around these campfires all the time though. Come on guys, this isn't a chatroom.

Also, roll an Elf for a change, all these humans, sheesh.

Thanks to another_mage's script, I have had 3 people on ignore for over a year now. Thank you, another_mage. :)

Let's face it, some people are naturally abrasive, insulting and demeaning. Even though Chris does a great job of keeping these forums civil(hence only the three on my list), I do not care to read their dribble when they fall back in their ways.

I am also not here to try to teach them better ways, or argue with them untill they see the light.

And also, Irony.

Thanks for chiming in Stephen. What I glean from the answers so far is that certain solo-combo's are workable with the current duration but that it is hard to capitalize on them when others apply the condition, exept in certain conditions. Like the situation where Duffy is taking on the mobs with melee-attacks that capitalize on Dazed, while his partner is constantly applying the Dazed state (I am thinking from ranged, but could also be from melee).

The biggest problem may be the combination "ranged application of the 5-second State, where the melee has to take advantage off".

Opportunity is something entirely different, because people can have that state on themselvess for much longer, so I am kinda hoping that one can stay out of the discussion here. It is also very clear that the the most used capitalization on Opportunity, namely the Exploit attacks, are currently very powerful (25-50 extra damage) so people feel it is worth the effort to capitalize on it.

I think this could be one of those questions in the crowdforging polls at the login-screen, if we get those. You would have to state the question very clearly and specific though; specifically ask if people capitalize on the "Dazed" or "Unbalanced" state, and not "Do you feel the duration of states are long enough in order to capitalize on them". Since people could be asnwering that from the Opportunity point of view, which would be a resounding yes from most everyone.

The part about secondary attacks having their big punch in their conditionals is interesting. I currently do not feel that their conditionals add a whole lot of extra to their primary effect, but there are a number of reasons for this.

First, inexperience.
Second, I am doing mostly PvE, and several of the conditionals are not working on PvE.
Third, the delay between what you are pushing on your keyboard, and what is eventually happening on the screen: I am not sure if this is desync or just stuff queuing up, or skills winding up their attack-animation, but I have a hard time applying any State when mobs are in melee range. I am getting stunned too off course. :) Applying a state from ranged is much easier, but then I feel the durations are so short, and the effects often weak (like Afflicted or Oblivious)

As to the getting stunned, I sometimes try to fight this by applying Freedom and Mindblank buffs on me(Utility), but again, they are so short that I can not really work with them.

So basically the only thing that I am doing when mobs have closed in on me, is pushing damage-attacks, hoping I kill the mob before they kill me, or get an Augment or Lesser Cure in-between. That often works.

But this is from a solo-point of view, and not the best player when it comes to combat, so other peoples mileage may vary. This is why I am so interested in experiences from groups. And from the PvP point of view. I am sure stuns have a much bigger effect on players then they do on NPC's. Effect as in, "turning the fight".

@ Karlbob Thanks, tactics like that clarify a lot. I do not run tino stamina problems often but it is definately something that you have to learn to work with.

Tyncale wrote:

Are people able to recognize when a target is dazed?

Yes. Dazed puts an icon on your target that looks like a silhouetted head with stars or something floating around it, if I recall correctly.

Ah yes, I have seen that one. Good to know, this certainly makes it easier to do *something* with it. I would like to leave the question up, since the fact remains if people actually *spot* that icon.

I think we need a target window and not having to strain our eyes to see what's on a mob 35 yards away.

Do we have a document somewhere with these icons? Dazyks ref-sheet only has the 4 HUD icons.

Obviously I am not using "Opportunity" for this thread since that state is so common (and possibly long lasting) and so many attacks capitalize on it that it is a no-brainer.

I want to discuss a much more elusive(or short-lived) state, namely Dazed.

Some numbers:

2 Weapon attacks apply this (or a chance thereto);
7 Weapon attacks capitalize on the state by applying another condition; not all of them by the same weapon as the ones that applied the state.

5 Cantrips apply this(or a chance thereto);
No cantrips capitalize on the state.

1 Orison applies this;
1 Orison capitalizes on it.

6 Trophy Charm Expendables apply this (or a chance thereto);
None of them capitalizes on it.

0 Rogue Kit Expendables apply it;
1 capitalizes on it.

10 Spellbook Expendables apply this(or a chance thereto), 3 of which need another conditions first (being disrupted);
1 Expendable capitalizes on it.

2 Holy Symbol Expendables apply this, one of them needing Disrupted first;
0 capitalize on it.

Rather then argue about it, I would like to pose a serie of questions;

• Are people able to recognize when a target is dazed? It should show the Tan chevron as per Dazyks ref-sheet. But there are more conditions that show a Tan Chevron.

• Do you use Daze---> apply condition combo's your self(solo)? There are a few combo's that use the same weapon for instance and can be done by a single person.

• Do you ever capitalize on the Dazed state that someone else applied?
  Often the state is applied by a ranged attack, but can be capitalized on by a melee attack.

• Do you feel that the duration of the Dazed state (pretty much always one round) is workable to capitalize on it, when someone else applied it?

• And when you yourself applied it and you follow up yourself?

• Do you rather feel that you just should fire off your favorite attacks and maybe sometimes they will happen to capitalize on a state, or do you think that States could and should be used in a pre-meditated group-effort as to get max efficiency out of combat? Keep in mind that most skills only give a *chance* on applying the state, often as low as a 25% chance. Also keep in mind that most attacks that actually apply the state are usually low-damage skills so probably not your favorite.

• Does your group for instance decide to use a series of slotted skills/feats that make applying this state and capitalizing on it much more frequent?

• Do you feel that the skills that capitalize on the state Dazed actuallly *do* enough to go through the hassle of spotting the state and then acting upon the State? Stuns are often applied which are nice, but 10 Oblivious?

• If so, which combo's do you use and/or could recommend. Both solo, and in group?

• Do you feel that there are more states and supposed synergies that seem to be unworkable for truly tactical purposes, due to short durations, low chance of application, low effect when capitalized on, and too little UI feedback on which debuffs are currently running on a Target?

• Is there anything I am missing? :) (very likely)

This is just about Dazed but there are more that I am wondering about.

I would love to hear about combo's or tactics that you guys use, that go beyond "all DPS on one target" and "use Exploit when Opportunity".

I would also like to point out that the Gathering professions are a perfect, if not an obligatory fit for a Combat profession, looking both at the Ability and the Achievement requirements that you need in order to get a Gathering profession all the way to the top.

Currently you will need Adventure=129 to train for level 20 in any gathering profession, or Adventure=78 to train level 15, if you do not want to go that high. With the current Achievements, if you would *only* gather with a certain character, you will not earn enough Adventure points and hit a wall at some point, lacking either enough Adventure points, or your Wis(Forester, Scavenger), Con(Miner) or Pers(Dowser) is too low, because you did not train any other skills that are related to those Abilities.

The Ability requirement can be solved by pairing up with the appropriate crafting or refining skill, but the Adventure achievements need to be gotten out in the wild (killing mobs, players).

So I am pairing my Smelter(con) with Mining(Con) and a Fighter (Con), so I can get loads of Adventuring points too.

The good thing about this is, that you have some ways of defending yourself.

Important note: in my case(with the paired up Smelter/Miner for Con) it is not necessary to take the COmbat profession to very high levels, since they will add more mobs, and every new mob-type will probably open up new Adventure-achievements. I'm sure a low Tier 2 fighter will be able to earn enough Adventure points easily at some point. You could even try to get the adventure points by only blasting low level camps with Mage/Hide and banded/shadowblast, though this can be a long (and expensive when ammo comes online) proces if you want to reach the higher levels of those Advanture achievements.

They will also add more achievements later ons, so do not read the above as gospel. There may be other ways to improve Con and/or earn Adventure points in the future.

Edit: changed Dex into Wis for the Scavenger and Forester professions.

Tyncale wrote:

I am sure that Heavy armor + Mage will at some point not be very viable anymore as of T2 armor this weekend when you have to try and keep Int and Strength both trained up in order to level, so you will fall behind pure casters and pure fighters.

Fixed

Well that too, off course. :)

I am still in full "T1" mode, but yes, the honeymoon is soon over.

Great post. They are currently working on Campfires and Base Camps that players can deploy in the wilderness.

Can you imagine the thrill of putting up such a camp near a strong Escalation and use it as an adventuring Base? Moreso bceause other players can sneak up on it....

There is also this level 20 Royal Camp recipe. That should be an awesome sight.

A couple of things that I think new players will have initial problems with(a lot have to do with nomenclature):

"Expendables"; for me, and a lot of non-tabletop, Themepark infused MMO-gamers Expendables mean "something consumable, most likely a one-use Spellscroll" rather then the *Spells* that they actually are.
Even after two years I have to mentally translate "Expendable" into "Spell" every time someone mentions it. ("Expendables are not Consumables, Expendables are not Consumables,..")

Power: ok, this has been used before in other MO's but let us face it, it's *Mana*. ;) Not a big deal.

"Keywords": The first problem is that people will initially think that an item that has "Provoking" on it, probably means that it has some kind of Taunt effect. And "Penetrating" surely must mean a bonus to Attack.

After they have learned that they are just cool names used for a Matching system, they will hit the real wall: the fact that for Combat there are 5 game systems, 3 of which use keywords in slightly different ways, with 2 systems using the well known "more ++ is better" while another system uses both Keywords but also "more ++ is better". Never mind the incomprehensable math that surrounds the Tiers and Masterwork/Major keywords. Here are the systems:

• Armor and weapon-matching: this uses the ++-system for keyword-matching. Pretty straightforward once you get it, exept for the confusing Tier/Major keyword thing. What still constantly throws me off, is that a +0 armor or weapon can actually be your "first" matched keyword, and thus *do* something. So, when matched, zero(+) does match one. One(+) does match two and so forth. This is somewhat unintuitive.

• Expendable-matching: first off, these do not match with the Implement that they are put on (unintuitive) but with the Role Feat. Expandables also do not have ++, they have levels, which determine the amount of keywords that can be matched. So different. This system also uses less keywords total then the Armor/weapon system.

• Utilities: these skills use a similar keyword matching as Armor and Weapons, since they are looking for keywords on items: but these are looking for keywords on several items, namely your other gear. Also more + on an item will not match more keywords. Instead, Misc. gear uses the ++-system for enchantments. What also makes this different is the progression: maxing out any Utility skill in matched keywords will take you across all Tiers. But this may change once more items are introduced.

• Implements: this uses the "more ++ is better" system to indicate it can hold more levels of Spells. I mean Expendables. ;)

• Consumables: this uses the "more ++ is better" system.

"Conditions": The fact that conditions (buffs, debuffs) all have their own name("Oblivious") that still has to be translated to the stuff we can actually work with: attack- and Perception debuff.
I would like to see a description that immediately makes clear what something does.

"Stacks" For me this is a new concept, still a bit hard to understand. First off, the word itself, and how it is used. Isn't a single stack indicating something that is already made out of several units? "60 stacks" of something indicates more then just 60 of something.

What I understand is, more stacks is a stronger debuff/buff, but also longer duration if you have a big stack on you? I realize that stacks are extremely important for how combat works: action/counteraction, stacking of debuffs, Rock, Paper, Scissors. But because there are also "durations" like (2 rounds) it can be confusing. I think more can be done here in the tooltips: use seconds, explain that Oblivious 60 means that you are trying to decrease someone's Attackvalue with 60 stacks. Or rather points. There are probably more subtleties that you can not really explain in a tooltip but still.

"Utility"; another example of somewhat confusing nomenclature. When I think of a Utility, I think of a Blender. :) I would not have thought that a "Utility" is actually a skill that is related to your other gear, so not your armor or weapon. It also seems that it is somehow related to your Boots and Gloves, but it's actually not: that description "Utillity"[Boot] just means that this is a more defensive skill while Utillity [Gloves] are more "actiony" skills. So these skills will actually be looking for keywords all over your gear(Neck, Ring etcetera). The blender thing was a joke obviously, however in other games I would link the word utility to utility-spells, like "Gaze" which increases magnification by 50% in Everquest (stuff looks closer, kinda cool).

I am not going into stuff like EPow and such, because I think players do not really need to understand that stuff. Every MMO has very complicated math under the hood so that's par for the course.

I am just talking about how gamesytems sometimes feel a bit unintuitive in some of their implementation, and also the sometimes confusing nomenclature.

I am not saying people are too stupid to learn all this, but we are a long way yet from PFO being accessable for the masses.

PFO is hard to master, which is fine but currently it is also "hard to get into".

Disclaimer: I am off course only talking from my own perspective. I realize that most everyone here is extremely knowledgable about PFO and probably wonder what I am talking about most of the time. Also, tabletop veterans (I am not). I also want to add that I think a lot of the systems also add Uniqueness to PFO. I like the mechanics, I actually like all the cool names. I am not advocating to change the systems: on the contrary. And I also realize that we have a long way to go yet. I also want to add that the tooltips have improved humongously in the last 2 months. :)

Here is how I paired up skills on the crafters and refiners of my little empire:

• Leatherworker(Dex)/Tailor(Dex)
  
• Sage(Per)/Mage(Per)/Dowser(Per) (All Per, unfortunately there is only 1 trade/refining skill that uses Pers) SO I have to go out with this character.
  
• Sawyer(Con)/Tanner(Con)
  
• Apothecary(Wis)/Iconographer(Wis)
  
• Weaver(Dex)/Bowyer(Dex)
  
• Smelter(Con)/Miner(Con)/Encumbrance(Con). Again, there are only 3 professions using Con, so either I had to give my Smelter another Con professions and have 2 of those, or pair Miner with him, which is a good fit off course. But it does mean I have to go out and adventure with him. :)
  
• Jeweler(Int)/Alchemist(Int)
  
• Armorsmith(Str)/Weaponsmith(Str)
  
• Engineer(Int)/Artificer(Int)
  
• Gemcutter(Dex)/Bowyer(Dex) Again, 5 professions using Dex so I had to pair one with something else. I decided to "double up" on Bowyer with him, since they need few recipes and it is easier to level up another Crafting profession then another Refiner (resource-wise). I also expect Bows to be always in demand.

All of the above pairings will allow you to get them to level 20, where only the Mage and Smelter will have to go out and Adventure.

If you get your +3 common and +3 uncommon achievements with both paired up professions, I think you will have enough crafting points to ride it out untill level 20 (maybe a few short). It is cheaper resource-wise to do the trick where you make +3 stuff from the level 0 recipes of other professions, but I like to get them these achievements anyway. :)

I have also tried, within the limits of the Ability, to make the smartest pairs in order to limit having to divide resources and refined goods between them, but that was hard.

So shared company storage will be *very* welcome. :)

I also intend to level up Scavenger(Wis) and Forester(Wis) on my Archer(Dex)/Cleric(Wis), so obviously that is going to take a loooong time. :) Especially since I already wasted a couple of days XP on some Mage skills.....it will be hard to let go of the Area Effect spells.....I am thinking it might be harder then when I stopped smoking.

Are people really lumbering around encumbered? I call it "the Walk of Death."

First off, I think there should be a very high level of security in a wealthy settlement. Through upgraded guards mostly(patrolling and static), walls, Guard towers.

Furthermore I hope that we get to see interiors to buildings one day (Ryan said we would) and that for instance a crafting building would offer protection in the sense that you can not be attacked from the outside: so any attacker will have to enter the building before he can target you and attack. That should make things much more interesting, especially if you can place an (expensive) Guard in the building.

I hope to see working doors too.

What we see currently, the buildings that are just a facade, should not be the end of it. I realize that it is hard to imagine now that we may get all that, but it's not that doors and interiors are an impossible thing. Think shroud of the Avatar. Or Everquest, to name a 15 year old game. Wonderfull, creaking doors. (I do not agree that you can not have doors in a strictly 3rd person game, btw. Just need some good camera-coding.)

Game just needs to start making money. :)

I have always been very much against anything that moves a character into an instance, like they plan to do with crafting. I am very afraid that this will become an easy stop gap that will never go away again. Game world is empty enough as it is.

I am pretty sure if PFO goes that way, that I will lose interest.

As a temporary solution, yes, but I hope they get the Thornguards AI up to speed asap. I expect towns to be bustling with activity at some point, not only players but also patrolling guards, that can be upgraded by a wealthy settlement, Guard towers, ballista's, anything to safeguard the citizens. Maybe even some regular NPC's, just for some local color (a juggler doing his thing at the marketplace.)

More activity, not less. Having characters whizz off in instances is terrible.

/agree Pyronous

I have a few more qualms about duration then just for the consumables though. They are just as short for utilities and more importantly, Expendables which cost Power, a depletable resource.

Duration of Utilities should ramp up when you match more keywords, but before you reach any decent duration you will be close to level 15-20 since you will be needing Tier 2 and 3 Items to do that.

5 seconds of +10 to Reflex, who is *ever* going to interrupt his DPS-ing for a buff like that?

I have no idea how Expendables scale up, since these use yet another implementation of the Keyword system(pairing up with the Role Feature Feat, I believe). But I find each and everyone of my Expendables to be useless in both duration and Strength, especially compared to some overpowering Cantrips and Orisons, that can be spammed infinately. You can also use (most?) Expendables only once per Combat.

Exept my Augment Manouver (Trophy Charm), that is one expendable that is well balanced imo. 350 Self heal, usable once in Combat and consuming power. The 4 Rounds for Endure Elements is also somewhat workable, especially if you can take this higher with more keywords.

Anything 1 or 2 rounds is just too short.

Are these durations tailored for PvP? I can understand that you tailor things like Stuns for PvP and such, because nobody likes to be stunned for 15 seconds, but Buffs should at least have some duration. I think this still leaves a lot of strategizing.

Then allow me to elaborate!

No, I'm not implying that it's "the" way you will have to target players. That's silly, why would we do that? I'm saying it's a way you CAN target players. As such, it needs to be not broken.

There are already other ways of targeting players. Tab targeting for instance. We're looking at improving those as well (for instance, removing harvest nodes from the tab list).

We don't always respond to every thing on the forums for a variety of reasons, not the least of which because doing so would be a full time job that would prevent us from actually making a game. Also, sometimes we don't respond to things because we're still figuring out how to resolve an issue, and don't want to promise or imply a time-frame that we can't hold to. Before you say that no one would take such a response as an implication, I'll point out that you thought fixing one feature, above, implied removing other features. It's hard to predict how people will take these things.

Thanks, Robert, I am at peace now. Well, for now. :) I appreciate your answer.

I could have formulated my question less panicky and assumptuous (is that a word?) so sorry about that. I guess it is my reaction to feeling somewhat left in the dark about features that are so crucial.

Tbh, I think there is too little communication going on between GW-officals and us, in this phase in the development of the game. More people are coming to play and the game is in flux constantly.

I think there can never be too much official response(even if repeating themselves), though I agree it can sometimes backfire and cause confusion too. When Bonny was hired, I was expecting that she would take on the task of being the spokesperson that would take our concerns back and forth,together with your answers, even if those answers would be "I asked the guys and there is no ETA, but they are working on it". Tbh, I was expecting that she would have at least have a 1000 posts by now. My guess is that she has been swamped with Customer Service tasks.

I can see how browsing these forums constantly would be a huge timesink for a developer. So I figured this was a task for a Community-manager, since this is how I have seen it work on other alpha/beta forums(Moorgard, to name one).

IN any way, I think the amount of responses from an "official" from GW should be ramped up, now that the population is growing.

In the first 1.5 years there were a lot more official responses from GW. This has died down, due to most things being said already, crunchtime and a veteran community that has been reading up for 2 years, and has been helping eachother and the occasional newbie that drifts by.

This is changing, come EE, and I think it is time for GW (Bonny?) to start repeating stuff and constantly post Tips, to-do's, guides and most importantly, Clarifications and Intentions on what is being worked on/planned. Or at least take on every chance to respond to Questions that are born from confusion. Or respond to posts that may cause more confusion.

This is a difficult game, it is not easy to read up on it due to the huge amount of information in so many formats that is out there.

Tyncale wrote:

I am not a leader, but could you put "Energetic Field and it's impact on PvP/lowbie gankers" on the agenda?

lol, you do know. that it only costs 180exp to use this skill right?
that's an hour and 40 mins of exp.

I know. Because it is so powerful and low cost, everybody can and will need to have it to at least be on the same fast footing as the rest, with this insta-speed, spammable get-out-jail card. Since it does not scale in speed but only in duration (maybe, not even sure) there is no need to invest.

When everybody feels they are required to take it (for harvesters, travelers, 1000xp-gankers and people that want to catch gankers) then you are destroying any meaningful choice and may as well scrap it. I am all for such a spell, I just think it should cost Power or more investment. This is why I think Speed, the Power-version of EF is not overpowered. Using this is a trade-off (power consumption), using EF is a no-brainer.

But hey, all my toons have it, it'll be nice to see everyone zipping across the countryside. :)

Maybe GW meant for everyone to have an easy Speed boost available early on, or maybe you get much better speed boosts later on after investing that will easily trump level 1 EF. Not really counting on it but it could be. So I am just asking that GW should look at this spell if it is working as intended.

There are a lot of options that would make it viable again, and a choice: have it scale in speed, make it more expensive, gate it at a certain level. I guess after 10 years everyeone still could have it(not bound to a class), but that is not the same as everyone having it 1 minute after you roll your character.

Anyway, this thread is not the right place for it, I just had it on my mind.

I am not a leader, but could you put "Energetic Field and it's impact on PvP/lowbie gankers" on the agenda?

Throwaway characters for the win

Gawd, I at least hope to learn to win from those. :O

1 on 1, that is.

This is one of the things I like about the XP system. Characters that have some serious XP invested in them may not care about the mechanical in-game reputation, but a bad name does mean something in this game. Not saying these characters can not be played, because I think there will be a place even for these, but at least you can not powerlevel some dude up to considerable power within a week.

Though I guess we will see quit a few of these:

Heavy Armor proficiency
Dragoon 1
Armor: Hide and Banded
Bow Proficiency
Overdraw 1(or 3 if the guy decides to sport a +2 bow)
Weapon1: Longbow
Arcane Weapon Prof.
Energetic Field 1 (gamechanger)
Weapon2: Charged Staff

For like 500xp.

I realize that PFO currently does not gate any skills/feats behind Levels, but I am thinking access to Energetic Field for less then 500xp spent maybe too good to pass up on for your average gank-squad roller.

Did I just ask for the first nerf?

@Tyncale you state your hopes for the game experience you would like quite clearly and well. In context with the design intent quotes from the devs only a couple posts above, it doesn't sound like your talking about the same game though.

Mmm, I feel that I am describing the same game as Ryan did. If I had to describe my take on it, meaningful PvP with accountability through a political and diplomatic framework, and choices and options for the player to adapt and react. I.e. not a murdersim.

Running away is such an option, Ryan told us as much and I think the same. Dying will happen off course. I understand that his quote "dying a lot" will be many's favorite, however Ryan did describe a litle more about how all that works. He needs the PvE crowd to make this game happen, and become more then another 15k-subs Darkfall wannabe. To put it more crudely, he needs sheep, but he wants to make them care enough about what they are doing in the game (for their Settlement) that they will take the risks that come with it. Which is dying, and losing stuff.

I think that is an applaudable point of view and a reason that I was interested in this game. But you do not want to scare the sheep off, before they get a chance to attach themselves to the game and their settlement. Or before the tools are even in the game so they actually *can* adapt, like for instance being able to see *who* killed you(no Company name yet under a characters name). Right now, you can get killed without ever knowing who did it: that is a far cry still from the political and diplomatic game of thrones that I am expecting.

Same with Bandits: I am a guy who would pay the ransom, so would honor a SAD. If I was so stupid to run into them in the first place. . But if you put Bandits in, but not SAD, then you take away options and choices for the guy on that side of the equation, in order to adapt.

The fact that defenders now can not defend and scare of loiterers because of the rep-hits is simply another case of missing game-systems. Missing Feuds, missing the ability to set your own FFA laws in the hexes you control.

I am already respecting Golgotha's turf, simply through word of mouth(and some mutual beneficial trade :) ), so that is how I take my calculated risk. So adaptation from my side: but the game could use a few more systems from GW's side.

Anyway, it's all good: I was giddy when AH's went in, you guys are giddy when husk-looting goes in. :)

I have been studying this game for days and weeks, and only just found out there is actually a way to split stacks, that apparently nobody knew about exept Randomwalker. :)

To adress one issue: everything pretty much has tooltips now, so that makes a difference. You will still need to look up stuff to really see what it is doing.

Your mileage may vary. There is the War of the Towers now, but before you want to dive into that you may want to build your character first for a few days so that means indeed diving into the matter. There are quit a few good guides as to the first steps to take to make a Fighter for instance.

If you are heavily into crafting then Gathering and hunting down recipes and resources should keep you busy for quit a while. And figuring out the interdependencies off course, but there are Guides for that too. Even so, you are right that the learning curve is still steep, also because progression is quit a bit different then your average MMO.

Too tired to look up those guides now, sorry. Ok, I give you the most important link, though the wealth of information may scare you off:
Nihimons shared public data

I am having a lot of fun, but I love crafting. I know others are having fun with the towers so there's that. Lots more people then in Alpha, but not thousands.

Doc, good points. This is why I think more sophisticated systems need to be in before such a game changer as husk-looting goes in.

I am definately heeding your "run" advice though. :) My precautions in a list for my Main who is an Archer/Cleric:

• Archer armor feat: Speed +2 (not working yet, I think but will be).
  
• Travel Domain: Speed +5, also not working, and currently on the same channel, but supposed to get its own channel to stack with armor feat.
  
• Agile Feet Orison slotted: 2 rounds of Quickened
  
• Minor Cure slotted: spamming this on the run is indeed a life-saver and even a little overpowered...
  
• Bulwark (Freedom) and Combat Expertise slotted as Utilities, against crowd control and extra defense (no idea if this works)
  
• Augment expendable slotted; I was lucky to loot this level 2 Fighter (Trophy Charm) Selfheal of 350 points. Can be interrupted though and does not always fire when running (have to test more).
  
• Cure Potion +1 slotted in Consumable slot.
  
• Perception at 80(elf) so sneaking up on me stealthed while I am harvesting a node is a bit more difficult.
  
• While gathering, already turn away from the node while doing the animation, so you can immediately start b-lining away from the node if you see a player appear on your minimap.

Sometimes I wonder if replacing my Medium armor with Heavy Armor isn't much more effective to make a safe getaway, but maybe not. Being alert is probably the most important. :)

As to your second advice, go in a group, I am of the firm belief that if the game really goes in that direction, then a certain persons doom scenario will come true, and the game will die.

In all my time that I have been playing in alpha and since EE, whenever I run across the country, I mostly have seen people running solo. This is not because this is a solo game or because the game is too empty still. It is simply because people like to do stuff by themselves now and then, especially Travel, and having to shout in town, or wait for a partner just to leave that town, is a terrible mistake.

Big fat caravan going out of town? Sure, they need guards/groups. Defending a PoI, Sieging, protecting a gusher, retaliations: they need groups. But regular non-gusher harvesting, *and* travel need to be able to be done solo, with a calculated risk that does not drive people away.

So *With* calculation, *with* knowledge of the world and the political landscape and with being smart and not lumbering around Encumbered.

But if I have to wait untill someone decides to go in my direction too so that I can finally leave town, because if not then I'm on a suicide run then no.