"Up to 5 Creatures" is a Bad Standard


Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells


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There are quite a few spells which have a target which includes either "You and up to 5 creatures" or jut "Up to 5 creatures" (in the area of effect, touched, etc.).

While this pans out nicely for your typical party, if I, as a GM, end up running a group of 6 or 7 players, then the spells become annoying, requiring 2 castings to get the effect for the party simply because there are more people at the table.

Please, Paizo, add at least a Heightening option to include more people in the casting. Or a Feat or something.

Unless there already is one and I missed it?


Pretty sure you haven't missed anything.

I note that this is also a problem for parties of 3-5 PCs if people have familiars or animal companions they want covered.


One per caster level solves this pretty well.


Pathfinder Card Game, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
sherlock1701 wrote:
One per caster level solves this pretty well.

Well given that Caster level is gone, we need a replacement. That said, not everyone needs every buff.


With all of the limits they have placed to keep the number of none player characters down, is there a reason to have the limit anymore?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

While I can agree that not everybody needs every buff, it does feel a bit left out to have to make these decisions (from a player perspective, not in game).

Also, Having it be per level of the class you're casting from wouldn't be bad, except then you're waiting until an average of 5th-7th level before you can get everybody. Is that sufficient? I don't personally mind, but it may not be for others.

Finally, having it just be you and your allies could open up too much freedom when you go into town to protect them from orcs and declare everybody around you as your ally.

*shrug* this ends up being the same problem it already is for large parties in PF1. In the end, a standard party is 4-5 adventurers. Maybe as a solution, offer a feat at 1st level that lets you up the number of targets to account for your larger group (we did this in PF1 when we had a party of 6 and the last guy kept getting left out).


I like the way they did it with the Pass Without Trace spell. You get yourself at first, but then eventually you can heighten it to a radius effect. It wouldn't work for all spells, but for utility spells it should definitely be an option to get everyone into the spell as opposed to everyone but poor Bob who has to sit it out.

As an addition, it would be nice to have more spells that scale in power to recreate the "Mass" spells of PF1. Like Fly, for instance. Eventually, the entire party might want to take to the air, but that means 5+ castings by the poor, overtaxed Wizard. Instead of, perhaps, casting it at a higher level.

With a spell like Haste, it tops out at 5 again. What's more, it goes directly from 1 target to 5 targets. A simple heightening rule could make that scale cleanly, without compromising the integrity of the spell's power. As for now, it's simply a 7th level heightening and the number is arbitrary.

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