I think I agree with Bludd,although calling hysterics isnt going to convince people.
Sure it might happen once in a blue moon, that there is an invisible character freely lolly-gagging about in the middle of a mob for no particular reason. But I would add to Bludd's list that you would HAVE to know that there was a party with a mage heading in 'x' direction with 'y' intentions to even bother, otherwise you are just wasting a bunch of time on a situation that might not even arise.
And if they somehow have this information, and they pass all their checks, successfully infiltrating a mob, and the mage decides to not take the marginal hit to his rep for killing the already-damaged evil bandit, and he manages to kill the mage, he can have the unthreaded items as far as I'm concerned.
Looking at it from a different perspective, if there was an invisible Mob Boss from an escalation that had wandered over into that same creep mob, and he killed you, would you cry foul, or be more 'Well turns out there is invisible/hard to see things floating around, guess I'll try and go back and get my non-threaded gear with a glitterdust/potion of seeing'. From the caster's perspective there is no real difference, they threw an AOE and got killed by something that they could not see.
Furthermore sneak is not infallible. It has opposing checks. Monsters get these checks. The caster gets these checks. Many spells render stealth redundant. It seems like such a MASSIVE risk just to be able to push the attacker flag onto someone.
Ha, well that is what these forums are for!
The death penalties as they are (mostly non-existant), the pain from one shot kills wouldn't be too bad anyway.
Does it state anywhere that you need to have a contract to assassinate someone? Or can you kill someone randomly under the assassin flag? This is where I think your idea is maybe slightly better, as it prevents random ganking.
Milo Goodfellow wrote:
@wiseman, I agree and you are prolly right. I was referring to low or negative rep as more of an infamy thing, not the in game mechanic they want it to be. I agree that "putting on a new face" would defeat the whole purpose of the in game mechanic. I was more meaning the disguise giving access to a city that normally wouldn't be allowed, due to war or alignment. I am not sure if reputation would be on the list of ways to deny entry. If it is, then maybe that will be the one "end all be all" for keeping people out. But then again, if your right and rep is the way of telling people who "follow the rules" set by GW and those that do not, then I am ok with that, because I intend to prove being CE with a high rep is possible. Keep people out based on rep, but allow disguise to circumvent alignment and war/unfriendly restrictions to settlement entry. Reward those training in those skills. Otherwise, we can't sabotage or fulfill assassination/BH contracts in towns we can't enter. I want the threat of not being safe anywhere, weather they actually are or not.
I think a high rep will cover both fame and infamy, as bhunters/assassins/thieves still gain positive reputation as long as they use the right flags, which is why i think it's a good idea. I intend on having at least one alt as a CE or NE, so I am still hanging out to hear how one can move along the G----N----E axis without losing reputation.
I am 100% in favour of everything else being disguisable. Race/class/alignment/faction colours, you name it. IMO Assassins and BH should gain a bonus to their stealth AND disguise skills over time, instead of the improved crit chance. It signifies the time spent studying a mark and planning out how to take him down. I would then give him an ability that does heavily increased damage to anyone that is unaware of his presence/true identity to allow him to have the capacity to quickly take down a target.
Combat and Utility spells. Magic missile is great and fireball is explosively joyous, but I want options for spellcasters outside of combat situations. Invisibility, alter self, detect magic, illusions, ventriloquism. Grease! Give us Grease!!!
Control spell-casters are SO MUCH SCARIER than evokers, would be disappointing to see magic reduced to throw fire at X target.
Milo Goodfellow wrote:
I posted something very similar in the Anonymity and Disguise thread, basically the ability to have a separately identifiable disguise that is tied to your character, but i disagree with the ability to disguise reputation.
From my understanding negative reputation means you have been doing things that the Devs have decided is against the spirit of the PVP that they want. I feel that if you have been undertaking such activity, you shouldn't just be able to put on a new face and go and train those skills in places that would normally be prohibited to you.
The ONLY leaderboard type thing I would be supportive of is one that shows POSITIVE reputation.
Have always found the treatment of brothels a little odd. I mean look at the first Neverwinter Nights, you get inside the 'Mask, you get to hire a lady, but the ESRB rating wasn't too high if memory serves....
This is a really clever idea. It ties in the lore of PF and helps alleviate the annoyance of loading screens. +1
A lot of people seem to equate stealth and invisibility. Stealth checks take penalties from light and movement, is countered by scent, tremorsense and a decent perception check among many others skills and abilities.
How people think a bandit/rogue/assassin is able to simply 'hide' in a group of enemies is beyond me. And an invisible caster is unlikely to want to use himself as fireball bait.
But when he throws that AOE, he knows that there is a chance that someone else is hiding there (albeit he must have probably passed god knows how many stealth checks to remain hidden).
That is the risk he takes, that he hasn't taken the time to cast a glitterdust/see invis/true sight/arcane sight and is instead choosing to drop the hammer on a group of targets. A lot of those are low level, long duration spells, so there is no reason why they wouldn't have access to them.
It isn't all doom and gloom for town builders. There are NPC guards who are going to provide fast effective protection in many areas of the world. On the frontpage at the moment there are two seperate guilds/kingdoms devoted to good and building a world, and groups such as the Seventh Veil (Nihimon) who are going to help people find safe places to play their game. There are companies devoted to spreading good and eradicating evil, who are going to be out and about quashing bandit encampments and the like. I am sure there will be towns and settlements with multiple hexes between them and the nearest bandit company.
Sure, there are going to be areas where if you travel alone, you will get killed, but those areas will be well-known to players. The main reason that bandits and assassins responded so vehemently to your post, is that in every thread people are complaining about the griefing possibilities of every new mechanic that the devs introduce, and the title you gave the thread is pretty inflammatory.
The devs have a LOT of MMO sandbox experience behind them, give this a chance, if it doesn't work, well that is what alphas/beta are for and they will look at doing it differently.
I would be highly surprised, if a mage, before looking to start a fight, has not cast Arcane Sight or True Sight. I mean there is nothing more frustrating in the TTRPG than trying to fight improved/perma invis casters without any detection. Invis detection is something you should have precast before an engagement.
I guess that it makes it more profitable for the bandits to offer a fair SAD, so that they DONT have to deal with handling the goods.
I expect it will also come down to what purpose the bandits are raiding the caravan. If they are doing it for another external party who want a particular good, or they themselves need a good to upgrade their hideout, I guess that bandits will need to bring their own wagons.
I'm interested in hearing a Dev answer the economic question...
Kinda like this, but think should have -2 possibilities as well, always that chance of pulling the Death card.....
I really don't agree with the what the OP is trying to say either. The connotation that 'omg noone can see me online therefore I'm gonna be a complete a!+!%@~' is a fallacy in my opinion. Sure people might not be as nice, but what he is saying, is that if we ALL had the option, we would rape and pillage our way across Golarion.
Sure some disturbed people might wish that, but then there are the Hobs's and Nihimons who are intent on playing helpful, good characters, who i'm sure are just as nice in real life as bluddwolf, greedalox, tigari and other players who are going to play evil characters.
In summary it's a huge generalisation, and think it holds very little relevance.
I'm hoping they aren't referring to the Dwarf Fortress version of FUN
Hobs the Short wrote:
I would suggest that you would contact a chartered company in game who would 'make arrangements'
Or you could just yell it real loud and watch Bluddwolf and Greedalox battle it out for the contract :)
I for one would be REALLY interested in a play by post if someone wanted to run one
+1 for a separate forum with the ability to sticky important topics. I also think that if there are 2 identical threads running, then it does make it harder to find things, and that the new thread should be nuked and people directed to the existing thread.
For example there are 2 threads discussing what the next blog will be, 3 threads discussing Stealth, anonymity and disguise and nameplates in which all 3 topics are being discussed, and at least 2 threads asking about kickstarter updates.
Gonna be that guy, I think its actually 'Qi' :p
Soldack Keldonson wrote:
Just makes more threads to wade through, and means that you need to monitor more threads to keep up to date with everything. Better to keep it centralised IMO.
I agree, I ran a PnP campaign with an Oread monk called Joey Twelve-toes, who only used kicks.... I would suggest that they could just tie it to the skill of the monk in whatever skill deals damage.
Skill 1: 10 damage
I know the numbers are completely off, but you get the idea.
The downside of this is then there will be once less item for monks that can be enhanced with a Keyword, so i would suggest that at the end of the day it will probably just be handwraps :(