Goblin Squad Member
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Basically, I don't think most people will mind terribly if .01%(or less) of the server's population can be assassins of the highest level. At least I won't. If 20% of the population can kill you anytime, anywhere, with no warning and little chance to do anything about it... well, I don't think a lot of people will want to play a game like that. Heck, even 5% would probably be way too many.
This being said, it should be just as difficult to be/stay a paladin, an antipaladin or any other class that requires a particular alignment. Assassins are just a bigger concern, because of the ramifications of being able to one shot/unstoppable combo an opponent to death.
These points to consider, are my thoughts more or less also. I don't believe one-shotting is part of the idea of assassin, however? That does not stack up with combat already detailed, does it?
1) Frequency of top assassins possibly needs to be low or related to something ie flexed. The basic assassin flag can be open to any (evil). I think this is doubly so for assassins, as part of the secret society = uncommon.
2) The evil alignment equivalent opposite number of paladin seems a fair bet also.
3) Regarding the affiliation to npc alliance, I think so to access the required assassins' temple or other in the members settlement, have a strong internal agenda for the assassins to complete at potential conflict with their settlement's plans ie they may have to murder a few people every few days and taking out some from their own settlement to upkeep that seems reasonable?! ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Between their stealth, crowd control and crazy burst it was nearly impossible for most classes to 1v1 a skilled rogue who got the drop on you. That's what most people are concerned about
A few points:
1. You are thinking about WOW Rogues. WOW was probably the worst game ever produced when it came to class balancing.
2. Rogues were "glass cannons", if they did not get the jump on you, they were dead in most cases.
3. PVP in WOW was the worst I have ever seen in an MMO. It set the standard for bad PVP, the run in circles and jump like a rabbit nonsense.
Hopfully PFO will limit that by having movement use up action points (as they suggest it will) and I hope that full speed moveemnt and straffing uses up even more.
4. WoW rogues were OP with the CC abilities; and no where here has anyone even mentioned Assassins having CC or Root abilities.
5. My concept of what an Assassin should be, comes straight out of AD&D PnP game. That means = Stealth + Burst DPS + Additional Crit Hit / Damage Potential.
Does that mean the rare one-shot, yes. But I think everyone in the game should have a 1:10,000 chance of the one-shot critical hit. An Aassassin might just have a better chance at it.
If everyone had this chance (as very, very, very rare as it is) then anyone entering PVP, regardless of how skilled they are vs. how skilled their opponenet is, would still have to wonder "He could get lucky."
Note: I did not say 1 in 10,000 hits. I am saying, 1 in 10,000 chance after a critical hit.
Where an Assassin would have an advantage is by having a higher chance of the critical hit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Being, Kakafika
The issue with bodyguards is as follows: You have to have some way to identify to the server that you're guarding a target, meaning a flag of some sort...
You mean a player character under in-game contract to bodyguard the target has to have an in-game contract to bodyguard the target?
Let me think... what could the answer be?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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You are being PROACTIVE about your own security by engaging in SAFE and avoiding UNSAFE behaviors. It's the same sort of thing that decides whether the merchant wagon gets robbed or makes it through safely....or frankly whether you are a successfull merchant or a bad one. All the game-play happens up front in the preperations you make.That sounds fine, but there has to be something that qualifies as "safe behaviour" with which to protect oneself which doesn't boil down to simply not playing the game (literally or practically).
And that behavior should count as a victory for the player who put the contract out.
Resigning ones leadership position might make one immune to assassination contracts; perhaps the contract is on the position and not the person?
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Goblin Squad Member
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You are being PROACTIVE about your own security by engaging in SAFE and avoiding UNSAFE behaviors. It's the same sort of thing that decides whether the merchant wagon gets robbed or makes it through safely....or frankly whether you are a successfull merchant or a bad one. All the game-play happens up front in the preperations you make.That sounds fine, but there has to be something that qualifies as "safe behaviour" with which to protect oneself which doesn't boil down to simply not playing the game (literally or practically).
You're not seeming to get what an Open World PVP MMO is. The only behavior that qulaifies as "Safe" is not logging in. In an open world PVP MMO you can find yourself in PVP by:
1. Traveling into an unsecure hex
2. Your Settlement is at war with another
3. You have a Bounty or Assassination contract against you
4. You flagged yourself for PVP, either by an action or voluntarily (long term flag)
Because some of these instances may not be consensual or within your control, you are never really "safe" from the potential of PVP.
Pathfinder Online is an Open World PVP MMO. Conflict (settlement control of hexes) and the access and control of resources for crafting, are two of the main focus areas of the game... Both of these are PVP.
You will not be able to avoid PVP in this game, especially if you are in a large CC or settelment, with any predictable frequency. So that belief that this is a "Safe Behavior" and not risk potential PVP, will be misplaced in this game.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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There are area which are free from PvP by fiat. Those areas should also, by fiat, be free from assassination, for the same reasons.
For that to be fair, the penalties inflicted on a successful assassination should be lower than the self-imposed penalty of remaining within an NOC safe territory.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There are area which are free from PvP by fiat. Those areas should also, by fiat, be free from assassination, for the same reasons.
For that to be fair, the penalties inflicted on a successful assassination should be lower than the self-imposed penalty of remaining within an NOC safe territory.
Then to be equally "fair", an assassionation contract should be open ended, no time limit unless it is fulfilled. There should be no automatic "I can hide and wait your contract out" apect to this game.
Also, I will have to read the description of the starter NPC settlements again, but it did not say "NO PVP at ALL". It was I believe, severally limited (perhaps to just consensual duels and war declarations).
Otherwise, the leadership of a settlement at war would sit in an NPC settlement and direct their war effort in complete safety. It is just this type of action that and assassination contract would be best suited.
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Goblin Squad Member
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After reading the blog on bounty hunting, I had the same thought for both it and assassination - why is there a time limit? If the contract creator is willing to pay the cash for the deed, why does the deed need to be done in 24 hours to collect? That only seems to give the target the advantage, in that they can hide, log out, etc. to avoid it. I've never seen a warrant with a time limit.
Between their stealth, crowd control and crazy burst it was nearly impossible for most classes to 1v1 a skilled rogue who got the drop on you. That's what most people are concerned aboutA few points:
1. You are thinking about WOW Rogues. WOW was probably the worst game ever produced when it came to class balancing.
2. Rogues were "glass cannons", if they did not get the jump on you, they were dead in most cases.
3. PVP in WOW was the worst I have ever seen in an MMO. It set the standard for bad PVP, the run in circles and jump like a rabbit nonsense.
Hopfully PFO will limit that by having movement use up action points (as they suggest it will) and I hope that full speed moveemnt and straffing uses up even more.
4. WoW rogues were OP with the CC abilities; and no where here has anyone even mentioned Assassins having CC or Root abilities.
5. My concept of what an Assassin should be, comes straight out of AD&D PnP game. That means = Stealth + Burst DPS + Additional Crit Hit / Damage Potential.
Does that mean the rare one-shot, yes. But I think everyone in the game should have a 1:10,000 chance of the one-shot critical hit. An Aassassin might just have a better chance at it.
If everyone had this chance (as very, very, very rare as it is) then anyone entering PVP, regardless of how skilled they are vs. how skilled their opponenet is, would still have to wonder "He could get lucky."
Note: I did not say 1 in 10,000 hits. I am saying, 1 in 10,000 chance after a critical hit.
Where an Assassin would have an advantage is by having a higher chance of the critical hit.
I totally agree with 1 and 2.
3 - I don't know if I think it's the worst, but it was annoyingly bad(more because of balance issues than circle strafing and similar stuff).
4 I agree with, but I have to say that we don't know WHAT abilities an assassin will have yet. Heck, GW doesn't even 100% know.
5 I agree with the stealth part 100%. I think that their OPENING ATTACK, from stealth should apply bonus damage - just like in AD&D. The problem was, in AD&D, after that initial backstab for the ridiculous backstab damage rogues were pretty much useless until they could maneuever for another backstab. I guarantee you, 100% this will not be the case in PFO. The open advancement skill system means that a good assassin can be every bit as good with a sword as the best fighter.
I think that under no circumstances, EVER, should a one shot be possible. I've played nearly every MMO pretty much ever. Getting one shot, or hit with an unstoppable combo is pretty much the worst feeling ever. When you combine that with advanced stealth skills so that you can't even try to do something BEFORE it hits, you end up with a game that I will never play... and I LIKE PvP centric games. Now, if it's 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 and this happens I don't feel as bad. You sort of expect that in those situations. Even 1 in 10,000 crits is too large of a chance. 1 in 10 trillion is too large of a chance.
Basically, I love the crit system GW has talked about. If you want to really give the assassin some love, what I'd like to see are assassin weapons or poison that can be applied to assassin weapons giving them access to keywords that can't be gotten any other way. The Red Mantis Sect has those swords all their assassins use, that would be a perfect candidate for something like this. Make these crits apply bleeds, reduce stamina points, whatever is necessary to give the assassin the edge he needs to do his job effectively.
Just don't take away the target's chance to fight back. That target is supposed to be the equivalent to the protagonist of a story. That player's story. Story protagonist do not get cut down effortlessly, unless that is a part of the plot. Just like no one would want to read a book where the protagonist dies like a nancy girl, I don't want to play in a game that allows it.
I'm not saying that if a lvl 20 assassin goes after a level 2 sorcerer, the level 2 sorc should have any real shot of surviving. Heck, they shouldn't survive 10 seconds if someone spends the money to get a 200th lvl assassin to go after a 2nd lvl sorc. But if it's a 12th lvl assassin after a 12th lvl sorc, the sorcerer should have at least SOME shot of getting away. When Artemis mugs Drizzt, Drizzt fights back and wins - sometimes he had to retreat, sometimes he needs help from friends. This game should represent that kind of thing as faithfully as it represents other parts of fantasy fiction.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You're not seeming to get what an Open World PVP MMO is. The only behavior that qulaifies as "Safe" is not logging in. In an open world PVP MMO you can find yourself in PVP by:1. Traveling into an unsecure hex
2. Your Settlement is at war with another
3. You have a Bounty or Assassination contract against you
4. You flagged yourself for PVP, either by an action or voluntarily (long term flag)
Because some of these instances may not be consensual or within your control, you are never really "safe" from the potential of PVP.
Pathfinder Online is an Open World PVP MMO. Conflict (settlement control of hexes) and the access and control of resources for crafting, are two of the main focus areas of the game... Both of these are PVP.
You will not be able to avoid PVP in this game, especially if you are in a large CC or settelment, with any predictable frequency. So that belief that this is a "Safe Behavior" and not risk potential PVP, will be misplaced in this game.
This 1000 times this! THANK YOU SIR!! It seems painfully obvious to me that some people want to make this into either a PvE game or a PvP game with no teeth that is sufficently hamstringed to the point that it might as well be PvE. Unless the devs change this to a PvE only game, carebears need not apply.
Understand, I love PvE. There is nothing wrong with good PvE, but I dont consider a game complete without PvP. Thus giving you that PvEvP atmosphere of adventure meets danger meets political drama. With the sandbox nature of this game it is perfect for this type of gameplay. There is nor should there be absolute safety. Its open PvP, if I want something, Ill kill you and take it. Its a game. Have fun with it, and come back with a bunch of your friends and destroy me!
I dont want there to be this atmosphere of people never engauging in PvP because everyone is friends or because they are afraid of the ban-hammer for griefing. The whole game system shouldnt revolve around stopping griefing. The devs just need to take a few measures and monitor the game, the rest should be policed by the players.
Seriously though, it is exactly like the Paladin. You should lose the use of the skill if you don't maintain the prerequisite alignment that you needed to train it.
No, it's not like the Paladin. Evil represents being willing to stoop to any level. Good represents being unwilling. Ergo, an Evil act causes a Good character to fall--a Good act does not affect an Evil character's alignment. If you don't think Evil people are capable of acting Good most of the time, you have a very black-and-white view on things.
But I'll bite. So say I'm a leader of an assassination guild. I manipulate markets, spy on merchants, but rarely incriminate myself by openly attacking. Am I going to lose my Evil alignment?
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Goblin Squad Member
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But I'll bite. So say I'm a leader of an assassination guild. I manipulate markets, spy on merchants, but rarely incriminate myself by openly attacking. Am I going to lose my Evil alignment?
The answer is a simple one, and obvious, "Yes". The Devs have already said that inactivity of direct actions towards chaotic or evil will slowly shift you to lawful and good. None of the activities you mentioned would trigger an alignment shift towards chaotic or evil.
As a matter of practice, the leader of an Assassins guild would likely be a behind the scenes manipulator and would likely appear to be a fine, upstanding citizen. If not that, he would likely appear to be a very average and unassuming personae, like a bartender or the guy on the corner selling bread.
Lol .. The irony of that last sentence just hit me.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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There are area which are free from PvP by fiat. Those areas should also, by fiat, be free from assassination, for the same reasons.
For that to be fair, the penalties inflicted on a successful assassination should be lower than the self-imposed penalty of remaining within an NOC safe territory.
Then to be equally "fair", an assassionation contract should be open ended, no time limit unless it is fulfilled. There should be no automatic "I can hide and wait your contract out" apect to this game.
Also, I will have to read the description of the starter NPC settlements again, but it did not say "NO PVP at ALL". It was I believe, severally limited (perhaps to just consensual duels and war declarations).
Otherwise, the leadership of a settlement at war would sit in an NPC settlement and direct their war effort in complete safety. It is just this type of action that and assassination contract would be best suited.
You can already direct the war effort with an alt, or with no character logged in at all.
The EvE equivalent would be staying docked in a station.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Does limiting the really cool assassination tricks (whatever those might wind up being) to benefits of allying with and staying allied with NPC assassin factions (like the Red Mantis or Skinsaw Men/Church of Norgorber) handle worries about everyone picking up assassin tricks? Would that limitation bother the players here who are intending to play assassins?
Makes sense to me.
The answer is a simple one, and obvious, "Yes". The Devs have already said that inactivity of direct actions towards chaotic or evil will slowly shift you to lawful and good. None of the activities you mentioned would trigger an alignment shift towards chaotic or evil.
It's bizarre how often I see people mentioning that shift.
The shift is optional. If you don't want it, it doesn't take place.|
Goblin Squad Member
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The answer is a simple one, and obvious, "Yes". The Devs have already said that inactivity of direct actions towards chaotic or evil will slowly shift you to lawful and good. None of the activities you mentioned would trigger an alignment shift towards chaotic or evil.It's bizarre how often I see people mentioning that shift.
The shift is optional. If you don't want it, it doesn't take place.
The point that you can turn it off is irrelevant, it still answers your question. The leader of an Assassins guild will shift to good, and lawful, if he does nothing more than manipulate markets or plot and plan murders that others carry out,
The point that you can turn it off is irrelevant, it still answers your question. The leader of an Assassins guild will shift to good, and lawful, if he does nothing more than manipulate markets or plot and plan murders that others carry out,
The answer is a simple one, and obvious, "Yes". The Devs have already said that inactivity of direct actions towards chaotic or evil will slowly shift you to lawful and good. None of the activities you mentioned would trigger an alignment shift towards chaotic or evil.It's bizarre how often I see people mentioning that shift.
The shift is optional. If you don't want it, it doesn't take place.
So the question is, should the leader of assassins, being the guy who negotiates contracts, assigns assassins to carry out jobs and collects the money for the contracts, get an alignment shift toward evil (and maybe some other shift) for carrying out these acts? I feel they should. How would that be handled? I've no clue.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So the question is, should the leader of assassins, being the guy who negotiates contracts, assigns assassins to carry out jobs and collects the money for the contracts, get an alignment shift toward evil (and maybe some other shift) for carrying out these acts? I feel they should. How would that be handled? I've no clue.The point that you can turn it off is irrelevant, it still answers your question. The leader of an Assassins guild will shift to good, and lawful, if he does nothing more than manipulate markets or plot and plan murders that others carry out,
The answer is a simple one, and obvious, "Yes". The Devs have already said that inactivity of direct actions towards chaotic or evil will slowly shift you to lawful and good. None of the activities you mentioned would trigger an alignment shift towards chaotic or evil.It's bizarre how often I see people mentioning that shift.
The shift is optional. If you don't want it, it doesn't take place.
Especially when he isn't even in the actual guild and is handling all the contracts on a meta game level. So the question is not so much how should that be handled, but how can it be handled.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The point that you can turn it off is irrelevant, it still answers your question. The leader of an Assassins guild will shift to good, and lawful, if he does nothing more than manipulate markets or plot and plan murders that others carry out,
The answer is a simple one, and obvious, "Yes". The Devs have already said that inactivity of direct actions towards chaotic or evil will slowly shift you to lawful and good. None of the activities you mentioned would trigger an alignment shift towards chaotic or evil.It's bizarre how often I see people mentioning that shift.
The shift is optional. If you don't want it, it doesn't take place.
The shift is only to lawful, not good, unless it's changed since the blog post that revealed it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Question for our more nefarious members...
I skimmed the blogs but didn't see any answer to this question. Bounty contracts are going to be tied to mailboxes - they're posted and returned to these items. I see that there is an Assassin flag, but how does one get an assassination contract? Is there a mechanic in-game for this?
Especially when he isn't even in the actual guild and is handling all the contracts on a meta game level. So the question is not so much how should that be handled, but how can it be handled.So the question is, should the leader of assassins, being the guy who negotiates contracts, assigns assassins to carry out jobs and collects the money for the contracts, get an alignment shift toward evil (and maybe some other shift) for carrying out these acts? I feel they should. How would that be handled? I've no clue.The point that you can turn it off is irrelevant, it still answers your question. The leader of an Assassins guild will shift to good, and lawful, if he does nothing more than manipulate markets or plot and plan murders that others carry out,
The answer is a simple one, and obvious, "Yes". The Devs have already said that inactivity of direct actions towards chaotic or evil will slowly shift you to lawful and good. None of the activities you mentioned would trigger an alignment shift towards chaotic or evil.It's bizarre how often I see people mentioning that shift.
The shift is optional. If you don't want it, it doesn't take place.
Well off the top of my head I would say that it could be tied to the contract it's self, like assigning a minor shift because they created the contract, is one way it could be done. Whether that's the best, or even a good way to handle it, well I don't know.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Does limiting the really cool assassination tricks (whatever those might wind up being) to benefits of allying with and staying allied with NPC assassin factions (like the Red Mantis or Skinsaw Men/Church of Norgorber) handle worries about everyone picking up assassin tricks? Would that limitation bother the players here who are intending to play assassins?Makes sense to me.
I really like that idea
The point that you can turn it off is irrelevant, it still answers your question. The leader of an Assassins guild will shift to good, and lawful, if he does nothing more than manipulate markets or plot and plan murders that others carry out,
But only if he wants to. If he'd rather keep his assassin powers, he would stay evil. He doesn't have to constantly do evil things to keep them. "Speak softly and carry a big stick."
And before anybody mentions "use it or lose it", we don't force a fighter to constantly fight things to maintain his skills. So that's not relevant.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Question for our more nefarious members...
I skimmed the blogs but didn't see any answer to this question. Bounty contracts are going to be tied to mailboxes - they're posted and returned to these items. I see that there is an Assassin flag, but how does one get an assassination contract? Is there a mechanic in-game for this?
(In a sing song voice)
Greedalox@goblinworks.com
(que fanfare)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Question for our more nefarious members...
I skimmed the blogs but didn't see any answer to this question. Bounty contracts are going to be tied to mailboxes - they're posted and returned to these items. I see that there is an Assassin flag, but how does one get an assassination contract? Is there a mechanic in-game for this?
I would suggest that you would contact a chartered company in game who would 'make arrangements'
Or you could just yell it real loud and watch Bluddwolf and Greedalox battle it out for the contract :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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You know, for some reason the title of this thread 'Being Assassinated' is a little unsettling...I see what you did there, but it is kinda victim-blaming to phrase it that way.
Of course it is the victim's fault. You don't get an assassination contract on your head by keeping a low profile or by living a mundane life. Characters will be assassinated because they wield some form of power. Any power that they have will have been gained at someone else's expense.
This is similar to the merchant being robbed by bandits. The merchant deserves to be robbed, he has asked for it by virtue of his own greed. Greed begets greed. Power begets retribution.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well off the top of my head I would say that it could be tied to the contract it's self, like assigning a minor shift because they created the contract, is one way it could be done. Whether that's the best, or even a good way to handle it, well I don't know.Especially when he isn't even in the actual guild and is handling all the contracts on a meta game level. So the question is not so much how should that be handled, but how can it be handled.So the question is, should the leader of assassins, being the guy who negotiates contracts, assigns assassins to carry out jobs and collects the money for the contracts, get an alignment shift toward evil (and maybe some other shift) for carrying out these acts? I feel they should. How would that be handled? I've no clue.The point that you can turn it off is irrelevant, it still answers your question. The leader of an Assassins guild will shift to good, and lawful, if he does nothing more than manipulate markets or plot and plan murders that others carry out,
The answer is a simple one, and obvious, "Yes". The Devs have already said that inactivity of direct actions towards chaotic or evil will slowly shift you to lawful and good. None of the activities you mentioned would trigger an alignment shift towards chaotic or evil.It's bizarre how often I see people mentioning that shift.
The shift is optional. If you don't want it, it doesn't take place.
Bolded that part for you. Since contracts can be traded, he doesn't need to get his hands dirty. You just stop by Tony's, and he'll tell you who to talk to about making a contract without Tony making a contract. Next you set up a contract with a dummy character in game, who then passes it on to the real assassin (identity protection).
And before anybody mentions "use it or lose it", we don't force a fighter to constantly fight things to maintain his skills. So that's not relevant.Invalid example, fighters and their skills are not alignment based.
As I said, "use it or lose it" is invalid. We clearly agree there, so we can focus on the main issue: you think people should have to maintain an evil alignment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As I said, "use it or lose it" is invalid. We clearly agree there, so we can focus on the main issue: you think people should have to maintain an evil alignment.And before anybody mentions "use it or lose it", we don't force a fighter to constantly fight things to maintain his skills. So that's not relevant.Invalid example, fighters and their skills are not alignment based.
Yes, I think that you should have to maintain an evil alignment in order to be an assassin, using assassin specific abilities and flags.
However, you don't have to be an assassin or evil in order to be the leader of an Assassins guild. It is unlikely that you wouldn't be, at the veryeast a former Assassin, but it is not necessarily required.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The reason I asked if there was a mechanic to hire an assassin was that I was trying to work out a means for a potential middle man that is in-game rather than meta gamed.
What if contracts were a physical item created in-game by someone with a particular skill? I've seen all the blog info about this or that contract, but not how they are obtained. What if there was a skill tree used to create contracts? These could be physical items made with crafting mats just like any other crafted item. They could be sold as crafted items or used by the crafter who wrote them.
In the case of Assassin contracts, perhaps it could work this way:
1. The person hiring an Assassin clicks on the contract, which brings up a window to type in the amount of gold to be paid for the hit and the name of the target.
2. The contract is given to the Assassin, who by double clicking the contract, brings up a window to accept the contract.
If it is carried out, the contract maker takes a slight alignment hit for being a party to an evil act. An Assassin master wishing to remain anonymous could continue to do good deeds to balance out this alignment hit. Of course, doing so is a meta game tactic.
If being the person running the negotiations between the hiring party and the Assassin, the Assassin master could do so wearing a disguise to further add to the mystery or have a third party courier shuttle the contract for him/her. Of course, nothing stops Assassins from taking the contract crafting skill to handle the contractual side of this business themselves.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You know, for some reason the title of this thread 'Being Assassinated' is a little unsettling...I see what you did there, but it is kinda victim-blaming to phrase it that way.Of course it is the victim's fault. You don't get an assassination contract on your head by keeping a low profile or by living a mundane life. Characters will be assassinated because they wield some form of power. Any power that they have will have been gained at someone else's expense.
This is similar to the merchant being robbed by bandits. The merchant deserves to be robbed, he has asked for it by virtue of his own greed. Greed begets greed. Power begets retribution.
Just as an assassin that takes on assassination contracts will also get assassination contracts on his head.
Once again, I think there's been a misunderstanding.
I am not against needing an evil alignment to use the abilities. I am in favor of that.
I am against needing to consistently commit evil acts to have the alignment. I don't believe Goblinworks is planning to do that, but Bluddwolf is pushing for it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just as an assassin that takes on assassination contracts will also get assassination contracts on his head.
I'm actually not planning on being an Assassin, I'm a bandit. But, I fully expect that I will have more than my share of bounties and assassination contracts on my head, and I look forward to them.
The last things I want to feel are boredom or complacency. I always want to have that sense of danger, as soon as I log in. With a death penalty as lenient as what PFO's is shaping up to be, why would I not want to always be at risk?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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If you want to make assassin contracts an item, make them an item which is created out of coin and alignment, which turns into coin and alignment when it is used in a successful assassination.
There's no need to specifically accept it if having it on your person when the act is done is enough.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you want to make assassin contracts an item, make them an item which is created out of coin and alignment, which turns into coin and alignment when it is used in a successful assassination.
There's no need to specifically accept it if having it on your person when the act is done is enough.
I like that. I'm imagining the wealthy protecting themselves not with bodyguards, but with pickpockets. The karmic irony is awesome.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Of course it is the victim's fault. You don't get an assassination contract on your head by keeping a low profile or by living a mundane life. Characters will be assassinated because they wield some form of power. Any power that they have will have been gained at someone else's expense.
This is similar to the merchant being robbed by bandits. The merchant deserves to be robbed, he has asked for it by virtue of his own greed. Greed begets greed. Power begets retribution.
That's sociopathic.
You've got a whole lot of generalizations and assumptions propping up a very weak rationalization.|
Goblin Squad Member
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You know, for some reason the title of this thread 'Being Assassinated' is a little unsettling...I see what you did there, but it is kinda victim-blaming to phrase it that way.
Hey, if I'm lying there at the crossroads with XvX over my eyes and my tongue hanging out, don't blame me: I'm just Being myself. Assassinated.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's sociopathic.
You've got a whole lot of generalizations and assumptions propping up a very weak rationalization.
I never claimed that is was a strong rationalization, and I don't think it is a weak one either. It is a rationalization, and one I'm sure many in my field (Rogues / Assassins) hold as a belief system.
I see it more as Chaotic Neutral, not sure if that is the same as Sociopathic or not?
No matter the rationalization, evil acts are still evil. All evil people have their reasons, and some can sound very reasonable. The assassin who reasons "I'm just taking power they in turn took from another" remains Evil, but might be quite friendly towards those who are powerless.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is generally how I see Chaotic Neutral.
Your link didn't work, perhaps mine will:
Fixed yours..... But mine is more accurate to what Chaotic Neutral is.
It's funny. I've heard more arguments over Chaotic Neutral amongst gamers than any other alignment in the game. While that link is cute, well drawn and amusing in my opinion it isn't what Chaotic Neutral is all about.
It isn't about randomly doing things just because you felt like it in that instant. That's insanity.
In my opinion - and I admit it is simply my opinion - Chaotic Neutral is the ultimate selfish alignment. It's about doing what you want, because you feel like it. Good or evil isn't important to you, it's what feels good right here and right now. This too, borders on the clinical definition of insanity and is why I've never allowed players to take said alignment. It's always felt like that ultimate cop out among the alignments. It's normally the alignment people take because they want to screw the party over eventually and be able to justify it, but the GM won't let them be evil...
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Goblin Squad Member
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What is it with all the "pro-evil" threads? Every game has a bunch of pro-evil complainers whining about how evil is at a disadvantage, while everyone realizes when the game(s) start 60% of the players want to create chaos and murder everyone. I'm tired of these pro-evil threads.
I hope when PFO starts there is enough balance in the game mechanics so evil has to struggle as much as good....and good can not only survive, but thrive. I want to crush evil like a bug.
EVE enev has an ad campaign using "Be the Villian" as their catch phrase, like there aren't enough pirates in space already.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's funny. I've heard more arguments over Chaotic Neutral amongst gamers than any other alignment in the game. While that link is cute, well drawn and amusing in my opinion it isn't what Chaotic Neutral is all about.
It isn't about randomly doing things just because you felt like it in that instant. That's insanity.
In my opinion - and I admit it is simply my opinion - Chaotic Neutral is the ultimate selfish alignment. It's about doing what you want, because you feel like it. Good or evil isn't important to you, it's what feels good right here and right now. This too, borders on the clinical definition of insanity and is why I've never allowed players to take said alignment. It's always felt like that ultimate cop out among the alignments. It's normally the alignment people take because they want to screw the party over eventually and be able to justify it, but the GM won't let them be evil...
Yeah, CN is insane. 2nd Ed D&D considered it such when explaining each alignment.
Anyway, assassins...