Squeakmaan's page

The only thing I'm missing now is a Stheno ancestry, the quasi-medusa ancestry. They came around not too long before the Remaster and we never got a playable ancestry for them.

Looks like something I'd fight in DOOM, by which I mean it looks metal as heck.

I remember there was a mention of some coil serpent spy Serpentfolk reincarnating into human (or other core races) to better spy on them. I always kind of enjoyed the idea of one liking the experience enough to become more tolerant after turning back into a serpentfolk.

I too hope the ancestry comes soon. Something about it just seems really cool to me.

After reading through it have to say that my favorite parts are all the In-Setting discussions on magic. Which is not to say I didn't like the spells and classes, those bits of lore really just tickle my fantasy geek brain center.

I would describe it as the characters who beat the spiders in the initiative notice something distinctly magical and/or unnatural occurring in the area: strange noises, strange wind, etc. Something to indicate the area is unsafe, but not know where it's coming from.

You find an earth elemental, ask it to use it's Earth Glide ability to go through the rock surrounding the adamantine and spit it out.

What does happen if someone just walks over one of the three bridges (formerly four bridges) and tries to go in? Is there a part accessible to people who aren't seeking divinity/riches?

Wouldn't that be a kicker, just wonder over and "Hey guys, the door just opens right up, who would've guessed?"

As the title

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

I think the fact that the class is "Summoner" sort of invalidates all of these convoluted arguments about the technical jargon used by each ability-- it renders the meaning of "manifesting" as being closely related if not synonymous with "Summoning."

My citation needed Temp, was in reference to the lack of justification as to why the 'Summon' trait is so important to the identification of the class's abilities as being summoning.

Why does that stand up to scrutiny for you as the central point around which the fiction of the class pivots such that it's name and design flavor are all invalidated in the face of the trait, which is itself a mechanical abstraction?

Why are we incapable of parsing the idea that Manifesting is just a class specific mechanical variation on the core idea of Summoning?

"The Summoner is a class that summons an Eidolon that they can manifest" the word Summoning and Manifesting seem relatively interchangeable in this context, and could refer to identical, or heavily related processes, that seems to be the most reasonable reading of it in context.

Or it could be that, much like legacy wording, it was chosen for effect and less for consistency. Studded Leather is supposed to be Brigandine armor in real life. Longswords are actually Arming Swords by real world terms and definitions. But these terms were chosen because it was more appealing to use in a fantasy setting.

Who is to say that's also not the case here, when manifesting, by real world terms, means to take a shape/form and come into existence? It still makes sense thematically, with Eidolons when we consider they are outsiders that exist in planes separate from ones they are called to. But there is a key difference between being summoned and being manifested, and that is by both existence and creation. Summoning is calling for an existing thing to appear before you. Manifesting is creating something, seemingly out of nothing, to appear in reality. In short, the "outsider" the...

In terms of Pathfinder you have that exactly backwards. Summoned creatures do not exist before you cast your spell or after your spell ends, they are created by the spell to do your bidding and blink out of existence when it ends. Your eidolon, as stated in the playtest document, does exist when not currently on your plane of existence.

Honestly, I think it's just a personal thing. I have don't believe in any sort of afterlife in the real world, just oblivion and my body breaking down and my constituent atoms being used by other forms of matter eventually scattered to the cosmos when our star goes supernova the same way the atoms that form my body were. To me the Golarion afterlife is not much different, the quintessence forming a character's soul merges with the place best fitting them (assuming daemons or other soul destroying monsters don't impact them), eventually the Maelstrom breaks down that quintessence and collects it into a vortex of soul matter which is then kindled into a living soul in the Positive Energy Plane which continues the cycle. In either case we are the universe experiencing itself, I like that.

It's also worth noting that for as much as we talk about what happens to souls there is some debate within the setting as well. The afterlife laid out in Occult Adventures differs in some key areas form the afterlife being discussed here and one of my favorite pieces of art happens to be two characters whose names I cannot recall standing in front some charts and drawings arguing over the nature of the afterlife.

It's entirely possible that not being able to mix and match to your heart's content is a deliberate choice, considering how that led to Summoner being banned from many tables and Society play. The Unchained version did not allow one to mix and match to their heart's content, as a base form was specified depending on what type of eidolon a player had. I would like some more customization options, but it should be far short of 1E version, there's a middle ground in there somewhere.

Well eidolon and summoner should have seperate HP pools. So your thing about the summoner being at 0 is only relevant with the weird shared HP. Even then its no different than a barbarian dropping to 0 HP and being unable to rage for 1 minute.

Nah, they should be sharing a HP pool.

It's an extra-planar being I'm bringing to the material plane. That's summoning, that it isn't hampered in the same way that other summoned creatures are because the summoner is better at summoning is the opposite of a problem.

No. The class Summons an Eidolon. Summoner is both correct and good.

They are though. If an eidolon and a familiar got in a fight, it would be a blowout, goodbye familiar. The Eidolon is bigger, stronger, and tougher than a familiar

I mean, if it were my player I'd be pretty open to them describing their Eidolon as a swarm of whatever in the shape of whatever.

siegfriedliner wrote:

Ranged Attack can been pretty much any ranged attack including eyes Beams, bad breath and spit attacks.

But I agree with you and disagree with the gentlemandm that their should be weird and wonderful evolutions Feats like multiple heads, hazardess terrain creation (leaking lava) ETC.

Heres another idea for an eidolon evolution:

Natural Weapon - Level 8 Your eidolon can grow/project/summon a simulacrum of a melee martial weapon. Choose a common martial weapon and one of your natural attacks. That unarmed attack gains all the traits (apart from thrown) and appearance of martial weapon you have selected.

You can have weird and wonderful abilities... just please not at the requirement of also having weird biology.

Natural Weapon is... interesting. Certainly the kind of feat that works well with flexible flavour. While some people do enjoy their eidolons being increasingly weird with extra limbs and heads, others of us want our eidolons to have a more socially acceptable appearance.

If my angel eidolon was forced to grow an extra head to access a certain ability, I wouldn't take that ability, and would be disappointed for being locked out of it.

If that same ability included 'your eidolon becomes increasingly perceptive, either through enhanced senses, an aura of magical detection, new sensory organs, or even an entire extra head' as the flavour explanation, yeah, I'd be stoked.

It cuts both ways. We shouldn't need feats to justify biological appearance, nor should feats force a particular appearance. We're leaving that behind in 1st Edition.

Oh no, I totally agree with you, I don't want to have require some kind of horrible physiology to get access to the weird and unique. I personally love that right now the Eidolon can be described essentially however a player wants without having to spend feats on things like legs.

I like it too. I really think it helps build the themes of the class

I'd love to see some more "out there" kinds of potential evolutions. Entangling webs or vines, parasitic spores, eye beams, causing miniature volcanos under foes (actually on second thought, those last two could be covered by something like Energy Emanation Evolution but I wanted to leave them in for completeness), etc. Things that really sell the idea that this being you've bonded with is something unique.

I realize those may be too powerful for player characters, but I wanted to to vocalize the desire.

And evolutions, outside of mere class feats, were a huge part of the Summoner package as well. Why are you comfortable with stripping what made Summoners unique in pf1?

Because paring it back (not stripping) is necessary to keep Summoner from completely overpowering all of the other classes, which happened with the 1e Summoner.

Color me crazy excited for Anadi ancestry

Then specifically what do you mean as balanced?

Cold polls would be pretty much useless, as found in any design process, most people don't want the things they claim to want or have any real idea how to accomplish the things they actually want.

Part of the problem and source of the vitriol is inherent to the nature of a playtest, the majority of playtesters are not good at making well crafted classes or experienced at making criticisms useful. This leads to conflict with the actual designers and with other playtesters. The anonymous nature of forums makes it easier for disagreements to turn bitter, it happens every single time.

As balancing mechanics go, shared HP works and fits into the themes of the class. 2e Summoner needs to be weaker than the original Summoner because the original Summoner was banned everywhere for being too powerful

After reading through the class and then reading through this thread I have some thoughts.

Firstly, I very much enjoy the direction the current Summoner is going, mechanics and flavor and really look forward to seeing what the final product will be. I like that your Eidolon choice plays a role in your magical tradition and I like sharing HP and actions, that to me really ties in the themes of the partnership between the eidolon and summoner. I really like not having to spend points on legs, or tails, or etc, I can describe my eidolon nearly however I wish.

Secondly, I do agree with some of the calls for more unique evolutions, ones that can mimic some of the cool things that monsters can do. Some examples that I came up with: web spitting for something spider or caterpillar themed, temporary HP leeching for something like a parasitic fungus or plant, bonus damage on stealth attacks for stealthy cat or shark-like eidolons, things of that nature. I think bonus Evolution Feats might be the best way to accomplish that, at least I haven't seen a suggestion that I like better.

Third, I'm okay with the limited spellcasting, as my main interest has always been the eidolon. I've never cared about the Summoners ability to use the Summon Monster spell at all, wouldn't even care if they lost it entirely. Spells that can boost your eidolon or provide some offensive power to the summoner would fit right in to me.

In truth, I don't want to go back to the 1e chained version at all, sure it was mechanically powerful, but it also tended to invalidate a lot of the party, and when it didn't I was still taking up nearly double the "screen time" by effectively having two characters. Even the Unchained Summoner ran into problems of limiting eidolon design by having to purchase extra legs. and arms, and whatnot.

A Seven Samurai AP that starts off with a village and ends with the heroes squaring off in a battle to the death against a BBEG tyrant out to conquer the world.

Pretty sure that was the plot of Rise of the Runelords.

I'll be honest, for Summoner I think all the focus should be on the Eidolon. If they don't get a single other Summon Whatever spell, I'd would be perfectly happy.

Keep in mind, that while not permanent, you're talking on the order of incredibly long spans of time.

The only one I am familiar with a potential non-violent resolution is Ironfang Invasion. But there's a significant amount of violence between the beginning and that potential resolution.

I wonder if Witch familiars are not getting obviously non-natural traits standard. Actually, now I need to look if that's the case for other familiars.

Very cool read

Aww, this is really sweet.

Summoner. The God Callers fascinate me.

On the subject of magic and law, there is an AP where this has come up before. In Trial of the Beast, book 2 of the Carrion Crown Adventure Path, there is a trial scene that has a sidebar that mentions magical effects. In this example magic is mentioned as not being used except under "exceptional circumstances." And priests of Abadar and/or Pharasma are present continually using Detect Magic to ensure nobody else is using magic and lays out consequences for being caught using magic. The only noted exception to this is the ability to petition the court to cast Speak with Dead, and requires passing a Diplomacy check to get permission.

I'm gonna have to echo the majority and say the 2e action system is my preference. Having taught the same group of people 1st edition Pathfinder and 2nd edition pathfinder it was a lot easier to teach 2e.

There's also a role for the GM in this, if something doesn't make sense to you to happen if no damage is taken, it's not wrong to make a judgement call, even if it's not explicitly stated in the effect.

I really want to make a Monk/swashbuckler archetype styled as a pro wrestler. Lots of showing off and taunting.

Also, our red Sarenite cutie needs a name. She has shown up in a lot of artwork already.

I didn't know I wanted that until you posted it, but now I need it.

I'm hoping my favored Witch style of "creepy magic person" is able to make a return in 2e.

Well, taking a look at human history we see numerous structures that serve as monuments to a singular person. I don't find it hard to believe that a race of intelligent and creative beings might also build massive monuments to the dead, especially considering they still have exist in them.

I've always liked learning more about the people of Sarkoris, and I really like being able to see more now that they have the possibility of reclaiming their lands from the demonic horde. I also hope we see a return of the Summoner class, because I have trouble thinking anything more thematically appropriate for a God Caller.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Cheliax probably benefits from the "rally around the flag to oppose the armies of the dead" too, come to think of it.

"The toilers in Egorian's dark, satanic mills, and the slaves in the cotton or jute plantation that feed them, have more in common with a vampiric or wightish thrall, or the minion of a necromancer, than with the Paraduke over their heads or his master, Mammon. And must someday make common cause against all masters."

That could make for an interesting story. Though I think that'd be a pretty hard sell to convince people of that. You'd probably have better luck making them hate the idea of mindless undead taking their jobs.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Now the more important part is -- When Irori uses the <Data Not Available> Punch, does He forget He did it?

This is covered in the text of the curse- "all living creatures forget your name." I'm assuming "living" here is a loose synonym for "mortal". So if you steal from Asmodeus, then annoy Irori sufficiently so he erases your name, Big A is still going to know who you are.

It's also covered by the deity statblocks. They don't have them, which means they don't need to worry about whether or not rules affect them. They can just be immune to whatever is problematic.

Plus if there's anybody who's nature would prevent being magically whammied into forgetting somebody who stole from them it would be the god of punishment.

Folks see the word playtest and seem to focus on the word "play" and not notice the word "test." Tests aren't really the type of thing that a lot of people would consider fun, but they're EXTREMELY important to do anyway.

We could and should have been more explicit about that, making sure folks knew that the playtest part is more work then leisure.

That said, I'm still pretty pleased with how Doomsday Dawn worked out overall. It was something of a trick to get the story to shine through even as much as it did when the individual parts had to serve playtest goals first and foremost. If I had all the time in the world, I'd be tempted to do a hard-hitting development/rewrite of the entire thing to shore up the storyline and rebuild it as a 2nd edition adventure... but I don't.

Rest assured that while the story wrapped up the Enigma Clock plotline, it did not wrap up the Dominion of the Black. We'll be doing more with them. PLENTY more.

Excellent. The dominion is super creepy and I hate that I love it.

Yes! I've been wanting something like this for a very long time.

As title says

I'm gearing up for a short campaign in Korvosa (because it's one of my favorite cities in Golarion). Gonna rebuild the Sable Marine company

Only a guess, but with Cheliax's recent internal strife, their vassal states might be trying to start pulling away. Breachhill may be an unusual town though, many other towns in the region might have only temples of Asmodeus. As a town with attracting heroes playing such a large part of their identity this makes sense to me.

The bear only starts small, because it is considered a Young animal companion, a bear cub being around the same size as a gnome seems believable. When it becomes Mature, it becomes medium, and then can grow to large if you pick the right path.