The trouble is, "common sense" includes a lot of GM interpretation - deciding that something is unusual or will take time to get encourages table variation. For something as basic as gear purchase, this needs to be clarified.
First, the Gamemastery Guide is not listed under Additional Resources, and so those rules should not be used in PFS at all. Except...the scenario itself has the following text on Fort Inevitable:
Emerald Spire p.4 wrote:
Base Value 1,300 gp; Purchase Limit 7,500 gp; Spellcasting 4th
Minor Items 3d4; Medium Items 1d6; Major Items —
This stat block refers to the settlement rules in the GMG, so presumably we have to use them for Fort Inevitable? How do the rules interface with PFS? Note that using the GMG rules means that the raise dead spell is not available in Fort Inevitable, which has a spellcasting cap of 4th level.
If we are expected to use the GMG settlement rules to adjudicate this, Additional Resources or the GM section of the Guide should clarify that. Otherwise, RAW, I think the OP is correct - you cannot buy rations in a town of less than 5,000 people. (Not that I've ever run it that way... but the rule should be clarified.)
Thanks LampLighter, i didnt realize that GM wasn't under additional resources :\
I'm not planning on running it that way either, but I really like trying to play RAW, especially if I plan on GMing for a group at a conference or a store. Do these forums get looked at by paizo staff or is there a way to bring this up for official clarification?
1 - There are three possible reasons why you are allowed to buy something:
1A) It's listed as "always available", meaning anyone can buy it.
1B) You have sufficient Fame
1C) It's on one of your chronicle sheets.
If one of those three is true then you can buy the item. They're three independent reasons why you may be allowed to buy a particular item at all.
But it also has to be for sale.
2) That's the second thing: is something available in this town? That depends on the size of the town. Bigger towns carry more expensive stuff.
Since between scenarios an indefinite amount of time passes and you can move from town to town, condition #2 only applies to shopping in the middle of a game. After the game you can go to Absalom and buy anything for which you meet one of the requirements 1A, 1B or 1C.
Right, so it is mid senario, 3 fame points, town of 900. They can not buy anything, not even extra rations:
1a) - Can not do, town less than 5K population
1b) - 3 fame has max cost of 0gc.
1c) - first adventure, nothing on chronicle sheet.
Additionally the town size only relates to magic items from what i see in the GM guide.
Thanks Paz, i have no idea how I didn't see that for the past 6 years lol. Neither did anyone in my non PFS group, we always make people buy it.
As far as coin weight in non PFS play, It's come up often for us in the past, finding bags of copper coins only to discard them because they aren't worth the encumbrance to bring back etc. Many of my players are constantly skirting the medium load by a pound or less. I charge in our home game 3-15% to exchange money and the players end up putting a higher value on gems. But back to PFS; in PFS with the way the loot works its different and probably doesn't come up as much, but I just wanted to make sure as its my normal group going to PFS for the first time here.
Again, as someone else said, I hate to necro this, but has there been a ruling? I'm doing a lv 1 PFS game and I have players asking this question. Do i need to buy my starting outfit, and do i track its weight, and do they have to care about coin weight / money chaging only in towns.
To speed along character creation I've said you need to buy your outfit and it needs to be tracked as weight. Coins can be traded for free in towns, but not while in dungeons but weights must be tracked.
As much as I like generally accepted, i really like to be a RAW person where possible.
Ok... I think im getting the 'always available' concept.
The always available is available because you have pathfinder contacts / lodge that will sell those to you, if you have proper fame.
However... if you have less than the required fame and/or you are in a town that is too small to have a lodge, you will go to the rules for items in towns in the game mastery guide.
The guide defines towns as:
Thorp < 20
Hamlet 21–60
Village 61–200
Small town 201–2,000
Large town 2,001–5,000
So in a town of 900, we have a 'small town'.
The players don't have access to a lodge as its <5K so the always available items due to the lodge don't come in play (and even if they did, they dont have enough fame).
Now we look at the rules for small town.
Base value (1,000 gp): This section lists the community's base value for available magic items in gp. There is a 75% chance that any item of this value or lower can be found for sale in the community with little effort.
Medium and Minor magic items (3d4/1d6 items): This line lists the number of magic items above a settlement's base value that are available for purchase. In some city stat blocks, the actual items are listed in parentheses after the die range of items available—in this case, you can use these pre-rolled resources when the PCs first visit the city as the magic items available for sale on that visit. If the PCs return to that city at a later date, you can roll up new items as you see fit.
Seems reasonable, but then, in the society play guide, at the end of ‘Always Available’ it says…
Beyond the gear noted above, your character is restricted to purchasing additional items from his accumulated Chronicle sheets, or by capitalizing on his fame. Weapons, armor, equipment, magic items and so on that are outside of these lists are not available for purchase at any time.
I’m not seeing any information explicitly referring to non-magical / mundane items, for towns in the Game Mastery Guide. One could assume then that it’s GM discretion, maybe this town of 900 has a place where you can buy ‘Agile Breastplate’ from the UE, maybe not.
I thank you guys very much for the help, but it looks like there just isn’t a way for <5 fame characters in a town with < 5K, by rules as written, to purchase equipment not on the chronicle sheet while in the middle of a session.
Just to confirm, where is this rule about mundane?
I see in the PathfinderSocietyRoleplayingGuildGuide (pg24) that mundane items are listed under 'always available' and that has the stipulation of a town of 5K+ if you are not between sessions.
Sorry for all the confusion, i just want to make sure I give the right info to the players.
It does seem kind of odd though that now i have PCs who are going to be level 2 with fame of 4, in a town of 900, that has various shops in it, and PC's can't buy lets say rations. Or does it mean they cant buy it 'permanently' and carry to next session?
Ok, fair enough, i forgot that the PC's aren't necessarily the same players session to session. I'm still getting used to this, im playing with a regular weekly group, so it seems to me like there is no 'between session' time :P
TY for the answer, makes life easier, and the players will like this answer.
I'm new to GMing for PFSP, and have a question about gear purchasing.
The guide to society play lists the 'always available items' assuming you are in a town of 5,000+ population.
In The Emerald Spire Super Dungeon, Fort Inevitable does not meet this population. Other than items available on the chronicle sheets, what else can the PCs buy in the town? Where do i find this rule?
I recently volunteered at a local convention, and one of my slots is a 4 hour Pathfinder session. The players may be new to the game or experienced, so it will flow slowly im assuming, even if i provide pre-gens
There are some modules from Free RPG day that are shorter, but they exceeded the 4h window when i played them with my group i normally play with (maybe we just argue a lot?).
Are there any good modules / campaign sections / ideas for a 4 hour session or am i looking at a home brew here ?
I've seen posts similar on the message boards, and the majority of the responses are PFS, having never been part of one, are these still 4h-ish for newer players?
As it stands now based on the other threads I'm thinking "Pathfinder Society Scenario Intro 1: First Steps—Part I: In Service to Lore".
Is the PDF similar to the AP paper mini's where they have the red folding line to make it easy to double side ?
Anyone?
They do not. The PDF version contains the pawns in a dieline for cutting out as a single image (we also include the mirrored version for each sheet of pawns).
I'm really bad at reading unknown names, Amiri/Lini, Seelah, Merisiel and Seoni in particular are giving me pause. If anyone could apply a pronunciation key to these, that would be greatly appreciated.
I think the first two books of Council of Thieves would fit this purpose very well. The game is city based, and there is a very alternative dungeon/plot.
Does it have to be a prewritten adventure?
Otherwise, my experience is generelly that making a RP heavy game (where the PCs' choices affect the game more) is easier (and require less work) in a homebrew campaign.
Yea, i thought about doing a home brew, but i'm already running one with my other group, and 2 home brew at once just seemed like a bit too much work :P
I've done lots of GMing in the past, this is just a very different group than my normal "KILL EVERYTHING AND LOOT THE BODIESS!!!!!!!" group. I know that i could do more RP in any module/AP, was just looking for advice on ones that easily lend them selves to it.
I'll have a read through of jade reagent's first AP.
Starting a PF game with some family members. The majority are not big gamers and are more interested in the RP aspect then the numbers and dice rolling. Anyone have any suggestion for modules or APs that are especially good for story and role playing?
I have copies of Jade Reagent and Carrion Crown that I havent played yet, but would pick up another AP (not RotRL or Serpant Skull or Kingmaker or Shattered star which im already playing/played with a different group) or module if well recommended.
The avgerage Joe should not be able to see where a fire ball is going to be landing...
If anything a wizard with a high spell check might be able to.
Lets not make this game easy and obvious, reward skill and cunning.
Is having a party walk not in a clump that hard a tactic to employ when you think you are in territory where a PvP attack is likely?
What about sending your rogue/stealthers ahead to scout the area you are walking into. There are tons of ways to avoid a mass AOE attempt on your party.
Also +1 to 3D AOE, that is important in the pathfinder world.
Love the friendly fire idea.
Not sure if i have a problem with multiple AOE's being able to nuke down a small party walking right next to each other. I'd like tactical movement to be important.
So yet another person in our group is giving GMing a shot.
And against my strong advice, they decided to give people options of character creation that were well, insane.
The option i chose was rolling 5d6 take best 3, rolling each stat in order. I came out with:
18 Str
15 Dex
17 Con
12 Int
16 Wis
15 Cha
Now i still get to add an additional +3 across these any way i chose how, and pick a race (including anything i can make up using 10 RP)
with stats like this just about anything you can dream of is playable. We currently have 2 clerics, a pally and a (druid or wizard).
I'm thinking of either
A) Going Monk
B) Going some obscure rarely played archetype that these stats might enable, like scrollmaster.
*edit: I expect there to be almost zero room for roll play in this campaign, combat combat combat.
Second the narration/omission of the capture scene. The players may feel a little railroaded at this, but they will certainly feel much more cheated if they are doing everything right to win a combat and you say "nope, you lose"
I think you guys are on the right track with this one. If they continue into the core of the city, I will have to do something like this.
I've also done the gambit from nothing to 3D terrain and everything in the middle and have had success with all of them.
MAPS:
For combat its much less confusing and less arguments about distance/ranges using a grid based map. My current setup is basically a 30"x20" 1" grid easel pad. My wife is very artistic so I've got dozens and dozens of maps at my disposal that she has created for me over the years. Then when i need an improtu map, i just scribble on it with some markers :)
As mentioned above using aids can take away from the imagination required which does take out some of the magic. If you love painting a picture with your words, then very simple maps are better IMHO, if you do not or your players dont care, detailed maps with elevations, terrain obstructions etc work well.
Mini's:
I've played using dice (easy to keep track of mob 1/2/3/4/5...X), paper mini's and minis. All work very well as long as you can number them. Similar to maps though, i find when I'm using just dice i describe the mobs more and give it more flare vs minis its more of "you see one of these buggers".
Hand Outs:
These I love. I like to take paper and use tea/fire to make it look old. Wanted posters, notes left behind, maps, all manners of documents.
I've also found NPC cards to be useful (made myself but you can get pre-made ones). PCs can fill these up with information they have discovered on the NPCs so they dont forget key points between sessions.
Also when PC's find strange items or artificats or runes/inscriptions I like to draw these out in the form of a handout. Mainly this helps my players as they tend to forget things, but if your group doesnt need this, your flair with words may easily fill this void.
I guess it just comes down to what you enjoy and what your players enjoy its a spectrum of imagination to pre made. Try a few different ways and see what your group works well with.
Im more looking to do this purely through technology / alchemy / traps. Advancing them was just so they wouldnt be 100% trivial even with the technology :)
These trolls have seized power in the region through those means, and there is story line circulating with that also.
The trolls themselves are weak, its the technology that is supposed to be making them strong.
The trolls also use fortifications ala 1800s eg ditches with musket slots,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Inside_Halifax_Citadel_walls_9-04-04.JPG
and similar tactics to gain advantages.
Seriously, guys in my sandbox dont read this lol. that means you fail cleric marco :P
Spoiler:
So i've got a party with lowest level of 8 ranger, and highest of 12 sorc and a cleric who's min/maxed to heal with amazing ability. They are in a vast underground ice cavern system that spans hundreds of kilometers. There are a unique race of trolls that have mastered a number of technologies, giving them muskets, rifles and all manner of academical supplies. The party has stumbled upon the largest of the troll cities.
These troll parties encountered outside the city normally quickly dispatched by the party as I've been using the Advanced Ice Troll (CR 5) with some upgraded weapons. They dont live long vs a fireball with minimum 80 damage (save for 40). I could advance the trolls even further, but i want them to still just be trolls that have come to power in this region due to their technology.
My dilemma is i want to have the party become captured by the troll guards if they proceed further into the town. I'm looking for a way to do this without straying too far from paizo content.
I was thinking maybe some sort of knockout gas grenades ala cloudkill or something lol.
Just posting to get some ideas on what type of alchemical and or technological means the trolls could use to get the upper hand with minimal casualties to themselves.
Huge oppertunity for a plot hook.
BBG is a litch, sounds like he could rez up your fallen PC through any number of ruses (planted scroll that is is actually a different scroll etc) and exert some sort of control over that PC. you could even pull the player aside and let them know what is going down so they can play along.
1) If outside US, do i need to pay more to ship the minis at crowdforger
2) Are the rewards such as Regional Trail and Honourable Title going to be available in game via quests and/or micro purchases?
Yes, this is allowable per a strict reading of the RAW, as the makers of the game didn't see fit to put actual sleeping rules and requirements in, because it was so common-sensical that it didn't seem necessary.
If you try this, hopefully your DM either doesn't prefer realism or is very lenient. Good luck.
Lol. realism doesn't permit dragons or magic wands :)
In this case I am the GM and i see no reason not to allow them to do this. I just wanted to make sure there were no consequences that were not being taken into consideration. The players made conscious choices to take the classes, domains and archetypes that they did, why stop them from using them?
Well i sent an email off to Mr. Dancey, I'll let you guys know if I hear anything back. Back in the day I would beta test in exchange for getting access to the game and that seemed to be the normal if you weren't a paid tester hired by the company who would deal with the unit testing and alpha testing.
@AvenaOats - after re-reading the plegde levels etc, I'm assuming that the crowdfoger Alpha and or paid testers will be covering this aspect.
I guess the use of the word has just changed over time in the industry from what it was 20 years ago. I can remeber having to sign NDAs, fill in weekly reports and actually test during 'beta testing'. Now it seems like its a preview or a demo more then a beta, this isnt specific to golbin works or this game.
I'll forward my views on to goblin works anyway as I like what they have planned for the game.
Im a little confused here, i must be missing something key.
When you do the kickstarter and get your 4 months subscription, this is used up when you are playing in closed beta?
I was under the impression that you only need to start paying when the game was released....
Can someone direct me to the appropriate posts to clear this up?
Not what i was expecting when i pledged. It looks more like its just an early release vs a beta. I mean I've closed beta some MMOs before, were its a buggy game and you work with the dev team to help adjust/fine tune difficulty in encounters, economy values and other similar game mechanics. GMs change your level and inventory according to what needs to be tested and you 'pay' with your time and reports.
Im really very disappointed by this paid beta / early release. Very. I was so looking forward to actually beta testing this.
Grick, the diagrams do not cover all possibilities.
For example, 120 foot line spell, and you want it to hit a square 105 feet away, and 15 feet to the right.
Where does the line break? Can you tell me? I know i cant. This is where a piece of string works wonders.
We just had this out with our group, thankfully i was the GM :)
Pass through in my mind means it passes through 2 edges of the square, these can be adjacent edges.
In the case of this, you would hit nothing as you would not cross 2 edges of the target square.
Looking at the diagrams is all well and good for those specific lines, but there are thousands of lines that can be made as the distance on line spells inreases, so its important to make a ruling on 'through' a square to deal with these also.
Yes, we are aware that many class features require rest to recharge, I thought that was clear... We are looking for anything other than class spell/abilities recharging.
Restorative Touch (Su): You can touch a creature, letting the healing power of your deity flow through you to relieve the creature of a minor condition. Your touch can remove the dazed, fatigued, shaken, sickened, or staggered condition. You choose which condition is removed. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
We have a cleric with this domain power, who has can do this more times a day than there are party members. From what everyone can tell, this means the party never needs to sleep unless someone needs to as a restriction on getting class abilities/spells back.
Is there any downside we are missing when it comes to never sleeping?
Im trying to price a custom magic item, as I am reading over the rules in the prd to try and get a handle on it.
I'm getting confused by the BOOTS OF TELEPORTATION pricing listed as the example.
Its a lv 5 spell, the caster level would be level 9.
Use-activated or continuous Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp2
thats 90,000gc.
Then you use:
Charges per day Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)
so 90,000 * (5/3 charges a day) = 54,000gc.
The listed price however is : 49,000.
Did i do my math wrong or does this guideline not apply to this item?
+++++++++ EDIT ++++++++
Found my issue, i needed to use Command word math, using 1800 as multiplier instead of 2,000gc.
Also does anyone know of a paizo wondrous items that has use charges in a x/week or other non day time period?
It says "per level", not "per ninja level". Is this intended, or typo.
it impacts rouges taking
Ninja Trick (Ex): A rogue with this talent can choose a trick from the ninja trick list. The rogue can choose but cannot use talents that require ki points, unless she has a ki pool. A rogue can pick this talent more than once.
examples
Ki Pool (Ex): A rogue with this talent gains a small ki pool. This ki pool is similar to a ninja's ki pool, but the rogue's ki pool does not grant any extra attacks. The rogue gains a number of ki points equal to her Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). These ki points replenish at the start of each day. If she already has a ki pool, or gains a ki pool later, she gains half her Wisdom bonus (minimum 1) as bonus ki points to her ki pool. She can spend a ki point to gain a +10-foot bonus to movement until the end of her turn.
Vanishing Trick (Su): As a swift action, the ninja can disappear for 1 round per level. This ability functions as invisibility. Using this ability uses up 1 ki point.
Ventriloquism (Su): As a swift action, the ninja can throw her voice as if using the spell ventriloquism. She can use this ability for 1 minute per ninja level. Each use of this ability uses up 1 ki point.
