Since acid splash only do 1d3 damage I wonder if there is any situation where it is actually useful.
its a level zero spell. I use it all the time, its for when you run out of other spells, or the situation doesn't warrant a more powerful spell.
This also isn't really a rules question...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
How About:
When you are all out of other offensive spells
When it is the only source of fire or acid you have access to and your party fighter has just dropped a troll unconscious
When you want to annoy somebody with out danger of killing them (although first level commoners better watch out)
When you have rogue levels and the opponent is flat footed with in 30' (sneak attack damage baby)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
- Whenever you need to cast a spell over and over again, e.g. to damage doors or locks
- When you have extra damage on it, e.g. sneak attack
- When you have extra effects riding on it, stunning/hindering/paralyzing/slowing/... someone. Some creatures are sensitive to acid.
- When you can stop regeneration or achieve similar effects
- It is a ray, so you can take weapon focus (and if you are EK or fighter) take weapon specialization on it
- Whenever you need a low-level spell that does not have spell resistance
It is generally considered to be one of the better 0-level spells, to be honest :-)
At-will 1d3 points of acid damage with a ranged touch attack? Yes. It gives you option of acting when you are out of higher level spells or have to save them due for later. While it is not much when comparing with crossbow's 1d8, it is a magical ranged touch attack that deals energy damage with type that is not the most popular resistance. So long for Damage Reduction. It also ignores Spell Resistance.
On the other hand, if acid splash is all what you have then you might be in serious troubles.
- Whenever you need to cast a spell over and over again, e.g. to damage doors or locks
Acid Splash (and the other 0-level damaging spells) are useless for that. All energy damage to an object is halved, then hardness applied. Even if you rolled the max 3 damage, it gets reduced to 1 when damaging an object (actually 1.5, but everything is rounded down), so even a single point of hardness will negate the damage.
It wasn't much better in 3.5, even though acid damage wasn't halved in that edition when applied to objects. Hardness 3 (pretty much every object has more then 3 hardness) negated the damage.
A 20 int caster then does 1d3+10 with unlimited touch ac cantrip...
Sorry, but I dont understand where the +10 come from!
And don't forget the ability to use an acid flask as a focus: pay 10gp for a permanent +1 damage on your Acid Splash.
Please elaborate on this one!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Per Adventurers Armory, certain spells can use alchemical items as 'power components' So, for the above, if you use a flask of acid as a focus, you get an additional +1 on damage. If you use it as a component, you get acid that lasts an additional round.
I wish we had more spells like this actually.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sorry, but I dont understand where the +10 come from!
A 20 int caster then does 1d3+10 with unlimited touch ac cantrip...
TGM is saying that if you have the Kirin Style feat and the Kirin Strike Feat, you can use a swift action to gain double your intelligence bonus to damage against an identified foe.... his example wizard has a 20 intelligence (a +5 bonus) using Kirin Strike as a free action after casting acid splash he could add double that bonus (so +10) to the damage...
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
First of all, Acid Splash is better than Ray of Frost. Why? Because it ignores SR.
Second of all, it may just be a weak attack for a wizard or sorcerer, but it's so much more for a rogue. Yes, I said rogue.
A rogue can get Acid Splash as a spell-like ability 3 times per day using the Minor Magic rogue talent. So they can use this spell to sneak attack a flat footed opponent at the start of battle, from 30 feet away, without needing to draw a ranged weapon first. The fact that it's a ranged touch against a flat footed enemy should make it an easy hit for the typical rogue dex. And it overcomes both SR and DR, which keeps it useful even against high level opponents. 1d3 might suck, but add sneak attack dice, and it suddenly becomes useful.
|
Best Spell for a low level sorc/wiz to be able to do damage, touch attack d3 is better than to a comedy of misses with light xbow at low levels.
If you happen to be int based witch/wiz/sage sorc... and wanna dip MoMS Monk for 2 levels to get a few more skills/saves/ac... you can pick up Kirin Style/strike to use a swift action after a successful ranged/melee attack on a successfully identified creature to do double Int bonus damage. Also works for undead with Disrupt undead.
A 20 int caster then does 1d3+10 with unlimited touch ac cantrip... not bad... losing one step of spell progression hurts. Or, you can take it without the dip at 6/9th level feats, but you have better choices for those.
I am really ignorant about the style feats. Where it say that the monk can take Style feats as his bonus feats?
It seem a logic rule, but in a search of the PRD I haven't found any text saying that.
Best Spell for a low level sorc/wiz to be able to do damage, touch attack d3 is better than to a comedy of misses with light xbow at low levels.
If you happen to be int based witch/wiz/sage sorc... and wanna dip MoMS Monk for 2 levels to get a few more skills/saves/ac... you can pick up Kirin Style/strike to use a swift action after a successful ranged/melee attack on a successfully identified creature to do double Int bonus damage. Also works for undead with Disrupt undead.
A 20 int caster then does 1d3+10 with unlimited touch ac cantrip... not bad... losing one step of spell progression hurts. Or, you can take it without the dip at 6/9th level feats, but you have better choices for those.
I am really ignorant about the style feats. Where it say that the monk can take Style feats as his bonus feats?
It seem a logic rule, but in a search of the PRD I haven't found any text saying that.
Standard monk can't, but he wrote MoMS which should be a short form for Master of Many Styles. *They* can :-)
Where it say that the monk can take Style feats as his bonus feats?
I don't think it does say that anywhere for monks in general(at least I have not come across it). However it is specifically allowed to the Master of many Styles archetype.
Rogue with minor magic or an Arcane trickster build has a touch attack no SR attack at least 3X/d. Useful for backstabbing from 30' away.
Or you take a single level of a spellcasting class (Wizard/Sorcerer/...) and get the cantrip unlimited times a day... ;-)
First of all, Acid Splash is better than Ray of Frost. Why? Because it ignores SR.
That's situational.
Often times the ray of frost is better because rays are weapons and profit from bards inspire courage, the damage bonus from point blank shot etc.
Well at low level 1 or 2 I once had to kill some locked up bastards I didn¨t have a ranged or reach weapon so I charged in. Bastards had readied an attacking so they hit me... Friend told me to back off - and started casting acid splash... It took a while. But the spell was usefull.
TGM is saying that if you have the Kirin Style feat and the Kirin Strike Feat, you can use a swift action to gain double your intelligence bonus to damage against an identified foe.... his example wizard has a 20 intelligence (a +5 bonus) using Kirin Strike as a free action after casting acid splash he could add double that bonus (so +10) to the damage...Sorry, but I dont understand where the +10 come from!
A 20 int caster then does 1d3+10 with unlimited touch ac cantrip...
That is awesome! too many requisites for a low level character but still awesome!
I houserule that monks can take styles as bonus feats simply because the style feats didn't exist when the monk was first created, but Scorpion Style (which did exist) is on the Bonus Feat List, so I say why not?
I think almost every cantrip is more useful than one initially thinks. Message alone has saved the lives of my party members on one occasion.
I've got a 3rd level Deep Earth Sorcerer who uses a focused acid splash as his primary offensive spell, actually. That touch attack d3+1 isn't that bad at all!
First of all, Acid Splash is better than Ray of Frost. Why? Because it ignores SR.
Second of all, it may just be a weak attack for a wizard or sorcerer, but it's so much more for a rogue. Yes, I said rogue.
A rogue can get Acid Splash as a spell-like ability 3 times per day using the Minor Magic rogue talent. So they can use this spell to sneak attack a flat footed opponent at the start of battle, from 30 feet away, without needing to draw a ranged weapon first. The fact that it's a ranged touch against a flat footed enemy should make it an easy hit for the typical rogue dex. And it overcomes both SR and DR, which keeps it useful even against high level opponents. 1d3 might suck, but add sneak attack dice, and it suddenly becomes useful.
Way better than acid splash or anything else for Rogue that wants occasional ranged sneak attack:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/robe- of-needles
|
Acid splash ignores Spell Resistance (if you can find anything with significant SR that would be fazed by a cantrip anyway that is...), but isn't a ray. Ray of frost, perhaps aptly, is a ray - and therefore can benefit from Weapon Focus and similar. Cold resistance may be more prevailant than acid resistance, but so is vulnerablility to cold (pretty much anything with the 'fire' subtype has it...). Oh, and Rime-Blooded Sorcerer FTW! :)
Arcane Tricksters do well with acid splash and a rogue with a wand of it would work out pretty well too.
So besides Kirin Strike and acid flask there is any other way to increase acid splash damage? (specially at low levels)
Regeneration (Ex)
A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature’s regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally.
A cantrip probably won't kill the troll. But it'll allow the fighter to do it.
First of all, Acid Splash is better than Ray of Frost. Why? Because it ignores SR.
What... I always thought they were pretty much identical except for the type of energy damage! That's interesting.
Not quite.- Whenever you need to cast a spell over and over again, e.g. to damage doors or locksAcid Splash (and the other 0-level damaging spells) are useless for that. All energy damage to an object is halved, then hardness applied.
Energy attacks deal half damage to most objects. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object's hardness. Some energy types might be particularly effective against certain objects, subject to GM discretion. For example, fire might do full damage against parchment, cloth, and other objects that burn easily. Sonic might do full damage against glass and crystal objectsAnd further down in the same section
Vulnerability to Certain Attacks: Certain attacks are especially successful against some objects. In such cases, attacks deal double their normal damage and may ignore the object's hardness.
Those sections certainly seem to be overlapping in conceptual role, I'm not really sure how to deal with that, I guess it's just a GM call as to whether an object is truly vulnerable vs. an energy attack or if the energy type is merely particularly effective. (can objects be vulnerable but the attack NOT be particularly effective?)
Although Acid isn't explicitly mentioned, I think most GMs can handle it.
Re: Kirin Style/Strike Feats, anybody can take those Feats they just have to meet the pre-reqs for them, so dipping in Monk of Many Styles may let you get them a bit earlier, but somebody staying in Wizard/etc all the way will eventually get exactly the same thing but their spellcasting will be ahead. You pick :-)
So besides Kirin Strike and acid flask there is any other way to increase acid splash damage? (specially at low levels)
Some sorcerer bloodlines increase the damage.
First of all, Acid Splash is better than Ray of Frost. Why? Because it ignores SR.
Second of all, it may just be a weak attack for a wizard or sorcerer, but it's so much more for a rogue. Yes, I said rogue.
A rogue can get Acid Splash as a spell-like ability 3 times per day using the Minor Magic rogue talent. So they can use this spell to sneak attack a flat footed opponent at the start of battle, from 30 feet away, without needing to draw a ranged weapon first. The fact that it's a ranged touch against a flat footed enemy should make it an easy hit for the typical rogue dex. And it overcomes both SR and DR, which keeps it useful even against high level opponents. 1d3 might suck, but add sneak attack dice, and it suddenly becomes useful.
And an Elven Rogue can get it many more uses a day out of it...
And an Elven Rogue can get it many more uses a day out of it...First of all, Acid Splash is better than Ray of Frost. Why? Because it ignores SR.
Second of all, it may just be a weak attack for a wizard or sorcerer, but it's so much more for a rogue. Yes, I said rogue.
A rogue can get Acid Splash as a spell-like ability 3 times per day using the Minor Magic rogue talent. So they can use this spell to sneak attack a flat footed opponent at the start of battle, from 30 feet away, without needing to draw a ranged weapon first. The fact that it's a ranged touch against a flat footed enemy should make it an easy hit for the typical rogue dex. And it overcomes both SR and DR, which keeps it useful even against high level opponents. 1d3 might suck, but add sneak attack dice, and it suddenly becomes useful.
Back in 3.5 I had a spellthief who used tactics like this, but with higher level spells.
An Evoker gets fairly serious damage from it, better than the usual Lt CB.