Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Pathfinder seems to have erased that clause of '1 free worn clothing set' from 3.5.
p161 gives you the free one, but doesn't contain the 3.5 rules "and it doesn't count as weight for your encumbrance" rule.
So technically, in 3.p you must consider your clothing as part of your gear for weight but not for purchase.
As always, your second (and all others) outfit counts for weight and cost.
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Pathfinder seems to have erased that clause of '1 free worn clothing set' from 3.5.p161 gives you the free one, but doesn't contain the 3.5 rules "and it doesn't count as weight for your encumbrance" rule.
So technically, in 3.p you must consider your clothing as part of your gear for weight but not for purchase.
As always, your second (and all others) outfit counts for weight and cost.
This is also how I interpret it when you really apply it strictly. For a home game I wouldn't bother - but for the Pathfinder Society I would like to know.
I just started a Wizard with Strength 7, Dodge and Mobility as feats. These few extra pounds make quite a difference if I scramble for light encumbrence. I solved it by having a sack with bedroll and less important items - including the Healer kit, caltrops, etc to be carried by a friendly fighter in our group.
Longer term I could contemplate a floating disk following me. Still - for the sack being 'taken' by someone I like to know what I can carry myself (no - my spell book is NOT in the sack).
Knowing a definitive answer would be good as I don't want to be accused of cheating because of different interpretations.
Thod
Can someone link to the original thread in question?
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Can someone link to the original thread in question?
Joshua
I can't guarantee that the link works - here its is:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/archives/doesClothingCountTowardsEncumbrance
In case it doesn't work - just search for 'Encumbrance Cloth' on the message boards and it should pop up at the top.
Here is the most official reply so far:
In games I run, one suit of worn clothing won't count for encumbrance. I'm relatively sure that the omission of that line from the rules was an oversight, but it's not something that I think warrants a full-blown errata.
The current opinions seem to be:
a) The majority seems to think that the encumbrance was left out in errorb) RAW you need to count the weight right now as it doesn't state othervice anywhere else
c) The opinion is split if this really needs an errata and a minority will apply it RAW
d) There is a strong suggestion if this doesn't warrant an errate that at least it should be clarified in the Pathfinder Society rules
All of the above is how I read the thread - would be good to hear an official ruling for society play. James reply above is good enough for my house game but would still leave me undecided for a Society game.
Thod
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a) The majority seems to think that the encumbrance was left out in error
If starting gold was removed the majority would think it was an error. It doesn't really prove anything, except that people like to keep their benefits, earned or not.
Also, I'm not that sure it's a majority who thinks like that. I'm more inclined to say that the majority don't think. In our gaming group no one added the weight from clothes. Until we noticed that the rules had changed, and after a short discussion we agreed that clothes should have weight.
Anyway, this is something that really needs clarification. We cannot assume that the rules omission was an error.
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Samuli
Sorry for taking offense in how I worded a). Error is probably too strong a word - but certainly the majority (and I'm only talking here of the majority of opinions/people on that specific thread) wanted to keep their benefit - aka - favoured a ruling which would be in line with 3.5
The word error slipped in as James Jacobs described it as being relative sure it was an oversight. I'm not naturally English speaking - error is just so much simpler a word to use instead of oversight.
It doesn't really prove anything, except that people like to keep their benefits, earned or not.
Exactly what I tried to say in a)
So for a house rule you discuss it and either go one way or the other. For Society play this could cause an issue if you are used not to get the benefit at your table - but others get the benefit - or vice versa.
Thod
PS: Just in case this wasn't clear. a to d) was my summary of the thread I tried to link to and had no bearing with opinions cited here in this thread or elsewhere.
Director of Game Design
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| 6 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 12 people marked this as a favorite. |
Folks, as of right now, there is nothing in the RAW that states that one suit of clothing does not count toward encumbrance. So, as of this moment, clothing does count.
I will revisit this issue when it comes time for the next batch of updates.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Folks, as of right now, there is nothing in the RAW that states that one suit of clothing does not count toward encumbrance. So, as of this moment, clothing does count.
I will revisit this issue when it comes time for the next batch of updates.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Jason
Thanks for the clarification.
Josh
I hope I don't make a fool out of myself and got it wrong. Could you please recalculate the following encumbrance I get for Merisiel - Pregen 1st level:
Backpack 2
Dagger (6) 6
Grappling Hook 4
Hooded Lantern 2
Oil (5) 5
Leather Armour 15
Rapier 2
Silk Rope 5
Thieves Tools 1
Thunderstone 1
Acid 1
Alchemist Fire (2) 2
total without Clothes 46
Adding Explorer Outfit this would go up to 54.
With Strength 13 her light encumbrance is max. 50 lbs. To me it seems that this ruling would bump her up to medium weight unless she drops at least 4 to 5 pounds of equipment.
Thod
The last thing in the world I want to spend time doing is calculating the encumbrance of every PC in our campaign. That's between you and your GM. :-)
Farabor:
Take a break.
Long walk on the beach.
Take long, deep breaths.
Squish the sand between your toes.
...now, think about it... are you really THAT nitpicking as to try and keep track of your PCs' encumbrance DOWN TO THE VERY SHIRT ON THEIR BACKS!????
Now, if you must absolutely know, as any dietist will tell you, whenever you're checking your weight, you usually deduce 2 to 4 pounds for concept of clothes, so you can assume that's the weight of ordinary clothes.
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The last thing in the world I want to spend time doing is calculating the encumbrance of every PC in our campaign. That's between you and your GM. :-)
Josh
Lets phrase it in a different way. Merisiel is as far as I'm aware one of the four official pre-gens to be handed out at CONs and Pathfinder Society games. As such her stats should be beyond any questions. If I'm strict as a GM I would have to rule she is medium load, so either the player drops some items or the Dex bonus goes down to 3 - with a wasted Dex 18 and likely an upset player.
The alternative as GM is - I don't care - but this would make it harder for me to enforce the ruling for a Wizard with low strengths. I would end up with double standards.
I know I'm currently a big pain to you by not letting it drop. But believe me or not - I'm trying just to be helpful here. Maybe I just shouldn't have looked that closely and should have just left it. But sorry - the Genie is out of the box now.
No need for any quick ruling or answer and maybe I shouldn't have placed you in this situation.
Thod
PS: A few month ago at a different board I despised a blogger playing stats police. Can't believe I'm now doing the same. How lowly have I sunken ...
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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It's worse than that, Thod. Because her equipment is so close to 50 pounds, her encumbrance will change once she throws a couple of daggers and a bottle of oil.
If it were anyone else, I'd suggest dropping some of the daggers, but this is Mersiel we're talking about, and "lots of daggers" is part of her shtick. So, I'd recommend getting rid of 4 vials of oil. Either that, or increase her Strength.
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Make Merisiel have Peasant's outfit. It weighs only 2 pounds, so that's 6 pounds less than an explorer's outfit.
Truthfully this issue had been noticed in local circles some months ago, but it was considered a deliberate change so no action was taken. To many characters it's a minor issue.
With Strength 13 her light encumbrance is max. 50 lbs. To me it seems that this ruling would bump her up to medium weight unless she drops at least 4 to 5 pounds of equipment.
...Looking at her picture it doesn't look like she is wearing clothes under her armor. So it is possible that her clothes are with other non-essential gear on the "Party Wagon." Or possibly she asks Amiri -really nicely- to carry it for her. =P
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There are no changes around this topic in the 4th edition - so it should still be counted. You have to be careful with a few character generators which might not add the weight.
One way I solved the problem for my strengths 7 Wizard:
I did start with a backpack and sack. All non essential stuff went into the sack. At the start of the scenario I would approach a sturdy character and ask him to carry the sack for me.
Yes - this resulted in my wizard never ever having a long distance weapon. Well - as transmuter he has his kinetic fist and othervice his magic.
A while later I added a MW backpack - not that it was helping much - but every pounds counted for me.
A Handy Haversack was purchased at the first opportunity. This was when the contact of the sack went back to my character.
There are also some cheaper option for carrying - 1000 GP wondrous item to boost strength by 4 for carrying only. But I didn't feel that would fit to my character. There is also Ant Haul.
I never have seen a GM really checking my load - but I feel this should be the responsibility of the player to ensure he knows how much he carries.
Thod
| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata. |
Folks, as of right now, there is nothing in the RAW that states that one suit of clothing does not count toward encumbrance. So, as of this moment, clothing does count.
I will revisit this issue when it comes time for the next batch of updates.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Was this ever revisited?
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Contributor
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Sorry for the Necro.
I just wanted to point out that HeroLab currently seems to think that the first set of clothing doesn't count towards encumbrance. GMs whose players make their characters with HeroLab should take a look at people who dump strength to 7 and wear explorer's outfits.
This is an excellent catch. Thanks, Adam.
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Sorry for the Necro.
I just wanted to point out that HeroLab currently seems to think that the first set of clothing doesn't count towards encumbrance. GMs whose players make their characters with HeroLab should take a look at people who dump strength to 7 and wear explorer's outfits.
Great. Now the scrawny pathfinders are all going to be naked...
Aw, man! I resign myself to dealing with coin weight, then find out that I have to account for clothing weight too. Lovely.
Make Merisiel have Peasant's outfit. It weighs only 2 pounds, so that's 6 pounds less than an explorer's outfit.
That sounds like a reasonable way around it. Thanks!
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50 coins weigh a pound, IIRC. If you don't have a handy haversack, you can still make the encumbrance less of an issue by converting your gold pieces to platinum or even to semiprecious stones. An onyx gem is worth 25 gp and can be traded for its full value in coin. It can also be used to power animate dead. VERSATILE!
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Coins
The most common coin is the gold piece (gp). A gold piece is worth 10 silver pieces (sp). Each silver piece is worth 10 copper pieces (cp). In addition to copper, silver and gold coins, there are also platinum pieces (pp), which are each worth 10 gp.
The standard coin weighs about a third of an ounce (50 to the pound).
Here you go. Future easy reference: the Index of the CRB points you right to it under "coins".
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Contributor
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It is generally assumed...
I gotta say, I'm not crazy about either "generally" or "assumed" there, especially for ridiculously low-strength characters (such as, I rush to say, my own gnome sorceress, Alys Kindletrick). If we're supposed to ignore encumbrance, well, I won't say "fine" because I think it's fundamentally unfair and more than a little ridiculous to do so, but, I was saying, if we're supposed to, then I'd like to see it spelled out, not "generally assumed."
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It is generally assumed that you are not carrying around thousands of coins with you when you adventure in PFS. This is typically because most big money purchases are done at the end of the game. Money can be in the form of bank notes, under your bed in the lodge, or worth equal amount in gems.
I would be fine with this, except I'll also want you to let me know where you keep the bulk of your coin. While the Bank of Abadar might exchange notes, that would require you to go someplace where those notes have value. If you're travelling in a small town and need to make a purchase or pay a hefty bribe, a trade good is better than a worthless piece of paper.
Was this ever revisited?Folks, as of right now, there is nothing in the RAW that states that one suit of clothing does not count toward encumbrance. So, as of this moment, clothing does count.
I will revisit this issue when it comes time for the next batch of updates.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
So was it revisited? Or are we still counting the encumbrance of the first set of cloths?
Again, as someone else said, I hate to necro this, but has there been a ruling? I'm doing a lv 1 PFS game and I have players asking this question. Do i need to buy my starting outfit, and do i track its weight, and do they have to care about coin weight / money chaging only in towns.
To speed along character creation I've said you need to buy your outfit and it needs to be tracked as weight. Coins can be traded for free in towns, but not while in dungeons but weights must be tracked.
As much as I like generally accepted, i really like to be a RAW person where possible.
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Do i need to buy my starting outfit,
The CRB says 'each character begins play with an outfit worth 10 gp or less', so no you don't.
and do i track its weight,
The v.3.5 rule letting you ignore the weight was left out of the Pathfinder CRB. I assume this was deliberate, and it has not been reinstated by errata/FAQ/designer statement.
and do they have to care about coin weight / money chaging only in towns.
PFS cares about 'gp equivalent' but I don't know any GMs who deal in the minutiae of how much is carried as gp, sp, cp, pp, gems, trade goods, promissory notes from the Bank of Abadar, etc. and how much is left back at the Pathfinder Lodge. I assume you're safe to ignore coin weight.
Thanks Paz, i have no idea how I didn't see that for the past 6 years lol. Neither did anyone in my non PFS group, we always make people buy it.
As far as coin weight in non PFS play, It's come up often for us in the past, finding bags of copper coins only to discard them because they aren't worth the encumbrance to bring back etc. Many of my players are constantly skirting the medium load by a pound or less. I charge in our home game 3-15% to exchange money and the players end up putting a higher value on gems. But back to PFS; in PFS with the way the loot works its different and probably doesn't come up as much, but I just wanted to make sure as its my normal group going to PFS for the first time here.
Thanks!
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Thanks Paz, i have no idea how I didn't see that for the past 6 years lol. Neither did anyone in my non PFS group, we always make people buy it.
As far as coin weight in non PFS play, It's come up often for us in the past, finding bags of copper coins only to discard them because they aren't worth the encumbrance to bring back etc. Many of my players are constantly skirting the medium load by a pound or less. I charge in our home game 3-15% to exchange money and the players end up putting a higher value on gems. But back to PFS; in PFS with the way the loot works its different and probably doesn't come up as much, but I just wanted to make sure as its my normal group going to PFS for the first time here.
Thanks!
For PFS you can get gold or other trade goods (like gems) and exchange them at effectively no loss, so its not worth it to bother counting gold. There's also a PFS specific rule that handwaives your ability to carry loot out of the dungeon or sell it off at you're adventuring.
"Sweet, we just knocked out the town guards. Hey, innkeep, you want to buy a slightly used sword and a very used chainmail shirt?"
