How would you beat this Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) lvl 9 thug in 10 rounds or less? (long thread)


Advice

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Zen archer using clustered shots.

By 8th level damage should be +2 bow +2 weapon specialization +6 deadly aim +3 str minimum= 1d8+13 damage per arrow, at 4 attacks on the flurry, 5 with haste, 6 with ki extra attack. Total damage before DR/- applies one time= 6d8+ 78... Avg. total= 105 Dmg avg in a round.

Keep your distance and use all attacks on one opponent for the first 2 rounds. Then the next round move and hit once. Move again and hit and now you should be far away to then do two more rounds of attacks.

Total= 6 rounds. Will take longer if you have less space to work with or they close gap. On the second round of attacks on the first enemy half way through he should drop, so out of your 6 attacks, about 4-5 of them should be on him, and then hell drop, using your last attack or two on the second enemy.

Grand Lodge

To Lusmith

1 Char duo Tag Team

Witch level 9 Human

Str 10 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 26 (20 start + 2 levl + 4 item) Wis 10 Cha 8

Init: +6

Feat
1 Impouved Init
1 Extra Hex: Cackle
2 Hex: Slumber
3 Skill focus Know Nature
4 Hex: Evil Eye
5 Improved familiar
6 Hex: Flight
7 Heldrich Heritage Sylvan
8 Hex: Misfortune
9 Annimal Boon (8 HD Wolf with all the perks)

item of note:
Wand of mage armor levl 1
Wand of ill Fortune Level 1
Headband of intel +4
Belt of Dex +2 (+4 if you can buy it)

Round 1
you: Summon monster 5
AC Wolfy: Ready to intercept anything within stike range
Imp familiar: Wand of mage armor on Wolfy

Round 2
You: Mind Fog area around Wolfy
AC Wolfy: Ready to Intercept anything withing Stike Range
Imp familair: Goes invisible (take wand of ill fortune ready
Summoned Monster V: Ready to Intercept anything withing Stike Range

Round 3
Bad Guy show up

AC Wolfy intercept (maybe trip him on the way)
Summoned Monster 5 Intercept bad guy

Both because of the intercept prevent him from charging you

You: Chose either Slumber Hex (Will DC 22 / Dominate person Will DC 23 / Gillter Dust Will DC 20

Imp familair: Use wand of ill fortune on bad guy

If bad guy was trip by wolfy and you real really wand to make a pont on round 3 you can misfortune or evil eye his saves then go on new round for the slumber Hex

but in the mind Fog he has -10 to will save

So even if he rolls a Nat 20, He has to roll again because of Ill Fortune

So by round 3 you have a Dominated or sleeping barbarian (or blind)

Switch with Magus Friend

Magus does Coup de Grace on Sleeping Barb with *4 Crit weapon power attack etc...

Magus
24 Str (+4 item + 2 Level)

4*(D8+17) => over 80 points. Dead

If bad guy choose not to go inside the mind Fog. Then hammer Away with Evared Black Tentacule /Evil Eye / misfortune / Lightning Bolt / Ice Storm / enervation / Ray of exaustion (drops him out of rage)/ Spectral Hand (+ Bestow Curse or Lots of Vampiric touch) / Ray of Enfeeblement /
+ All you Summon Monster III to V

While you are in the safy of the mind fog and Wolfy is guarding you (trip) if he comes close. you can just debuff him up to kitten level

-bestow curse + ray of enfeeblement+ Evil eye => -13 Str + minus 2 to hit

While if has to fight of in the grappeld of the black tentaclue

add the enfeeblement

or just use you sommoned monster + Spectral hand and vampiric touch

remeber that you imp familiar is usong ill Fortun every round to make him reroll everything

Have Fun with vengence


Here is a level equivalent eidolon and summoner who could take your barbs all by himself.

Level 8 Half Elf Summoner : Favoured Class +2 evolution points (20 point buy)

Stats:

Str:10
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:10
Cha:20

HP: 64

Spells:
1st: Mage Armor, Shield, Protection from Evil, Ant-Haul and Featherfall
2nd: Barkskin, Create Pit (DC 19),Invisibility, Haste
3rd: Greater Invisibility, Heroism, Greater Magic Fang

Spells per day: 6,6,4

Feats:
Spell Focus Conjuration, Greater Spell Focus Conjuration, Toughness, Craft Wand

Quadruped
Size Large; Speed 40 ft.

Stats:
Str:28
Dex:17
Con:17
Int:07
Wis:10
Cha:11

Feats:
Weapon Focus (Claws), Power Attack, Iron Will

Evolutions:
Large (4): +8 Strength, +4 Con, -2 Dex, +2 NA
Claws (1)
Gore (2)
Pounce (1)
Improved Natural Armour (2): +4 NA
Improved Attribute Strength (2): +2 Strength
Grab (2)

AB (including greater magic fang) 16
2x1d8+15
2x1d6+15

AB (including greater magic fang + heroism): 18

AC: 31=10+3(dex)+ 12(NA)+ 4 (mage armour) + 3 (Bark Skin)-1 size

Saves (heroism)
Fort: 10
Refl: 10
Will: 6 + 4 (enchant, compulsion)

CMB: 16 (+22 grapple:+4 grab +2 greater magic fang)
CMD: 29

The summoner tumbles one of them into a pit whilst the eidolon pounces, grapples and kills the other one over 2 turns to 3 turns He then jumps down the pit and finishes the other one.


Well my long post gotveaten... blah

Calm emotions will shut down barbarians nicely

I built a goblin feral gnasher that could get 9 strong attacks a round with a single bite attack and a haste spell. He was quite powerful.

There was a weird words bard going around that could do 10d8 +10x Cha mod in damage at lvl 10 that ignores dr. I will find it for you in a bit.

Gunslingers would blow them to pieces but guns are EXPENSIVE! I don't know i f you could afford them.

Master summoner. Summon moar minions!!! Arcon lanturns are good.

Favored enemy rangers would be good. Especially archers

Goblin alchemist would completely eat them

A pair of cavileers with lances alpha striking

2 orc barbarian grapplers with amplified rage and brutal grappler

Horse archer with single level in sohi monk for mounted skirmisher

Play some kind of kobold and if you win, you can really rub it in!


Gobo Horde wrote:
Gunslingers would blow them to pieces but guns are EXPENSIVE! I don't know i f you could afford them.

starter gun is free for a gunslinger, and getting it to masterwork from damaged is covered in gunsmithing. from there its just the average enchanting costs for a weapon like everyone else.

Scarab Sages

Odraude wrote:


I'm a bit confused. How is the magus casting Mage Armor when that isn't on the Magus's spell list?

Look at the arcana.


Jaxtile wrote:

Summon a swarm?

Pretty much this.

Wizard level 5 can annihilate this guy, or at least cause him to run in circles. He has no alchemist fires, any AOE, or non-physical damage.

Invisiblity+Rain of Frogs, concentration takes a standard. Fly if you feel the need to.


Oh gosh, I'd just use a sorcerer with greater invisibility, dispel magic, fly, and a bunch of rays and blasts. Also if you take magical lineage burning gaze you can get a dazing burning gaze cast on your familiar at level 8. enjoy the dazing turret standing on the sorc's shoulder. Also wait to cast dispel magic until he's flying up to look for you, preferably about 200 feet up.

Actually if you dispel their flies, you can just enervate them to pieces and then finish with blasts.

Human Arcane Sorcerer: Int 13, Charisma max, Dex as high as possible. Dump str and wis, dump con if you're feeling mean.

Feats:
1:spell focus abjuration
1:spell specialization: dispel magic
3:mage's tattoo: abjuration
5:dazing spell
7:improved familiar
7:improved initiative
magical lineage burning gaze

this gives +3 caster level to dispel magic. The fly potion has a dc 16 to dispel. You will be rolling 1d20+11 so you'll dispel it on a roll of 5 or more (80% success) dropping them to their doom. Your range is 211 feet.
Strategy: keep moving every round to force them to try to close cast in this order
1: protection from arrows
2:fly
3:dispel magic
4:dazing burning gaze on familiar
5-7:Now the barbarian should be grounded, damaged from the fall and dazed. use your remaining 4th level slots (3) with enervation. This should cause up to 3d4 negative levels, meaning 3d4x5 damage, and -3d4 on saves.
8-10: lightning bolts for 8d6 each with guaranteed failing of saves.

For two barbarians, use dispel magic twice and spread around the burning gaze and enervations.


Thinking about this more,

The simplest spell combo is protection from arrows and fly. This makes their composite longbow damage max out at 2 points on you so it will be nearly a non issue to make concentration checks. then either haste for superior movement or dispel magic if they try to fly and they will be unable to get into melee with you. Then all you have to do is bombard them with reflex save blasts and ranged touch attacks. by using dazing spell metamagic and magical lineage on a 2nd level spell, you will lock them down reasonably quickly and then be able to blast with impunity. Then you can probably lightning bolt or fireball for 6 rounds or so from 2 sorcerers. If you follow a blaster build, those blasts will probably hit for 10d6+10 or more each. If you get off 10 blasts, that is a max of like 700 points of damage.

Other great spells to use would be ray of exhaustion, enervation, dazing ball of fires, stinking cloud, and even magic missile. If they can't attack you, even magic missile will wear them down and go right through the damage resistance.

If you can access r a quicken metamagic rodd with your point buy, then your caster will be unstoppable by being able to get up defense and mobility on your first round, and cast twice two more rounds to daze, debuff, and damage them into a nonfunctioning heap. Then blast them to death.

Basically, you cant beat a sorc or wizard if they can see your abilities before the fight. all they have to do is get off a spell before they are able to get attacked.


Step 1) Be asmir
Step 2) Spend both traits on lowering the metamagic cost of embrace destiny
Step 3) Be evil
Step 4) Spend a feat learning consecrate metamagic
Step 5) Target self with level 1 consecrated embrace destiny
Step 6) Throw a vorpal chakram (Auto crit with consecrate embrace destiny)
Step 7) Kill the barbarian turn 1 with a level 1 character.
Step 8) PvP is broken.


DiscOH wrote:

Step 1) Be asmir

Step 2) Spend both traits on lowering the metamagic cost of embrace destiny
Step 3) Be evil
Step 4) Spend a feat learning consecrate metamagic
Step 5) Target self with level 1 consecrated embrace destiny
Step 6) Throw a vorpal chakram (Auto crit with consecrate embrace destiny)
Step 7) Kill the barbarian turn 1 with a level 1 character.
Step 8) PvP is broken.

Can someone who is more familiar with these things check this for accuracy please?

I want to applaud, but I want to know it's right before I do.


will do, this looks intresting!


Well so far its kinda legal.
#1. Why aasimar? I see no reason for this. Flavor? NM you need it for consecrate
#2. -#4. Gotchya
#5. heres where things get iffy.

Consecrate:
Prerequisites: Aasimar, able to prepare or cast consecrate.

Benefit: A consecrated spell is treated as a maximized spell against evil creatures and creatures with the evil subtype. Against all other creatures, this feat does not modify the spell in any way (for example, a consecrated fireball acts as a normal fireball against neutral or good creatures). This feat does not stack with Maximize Spell.

Level Increase: +2 (a consecrated spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.)


It is questionable wether Embrace Destiny is used against yourself. Debatable, but I would argue against it.
#6. second problem.
Vorpal:
This potent and feared ability allows the weapon to sever the heads of those it strikes.

Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent's head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off. A vorpal weapon must be a slashing melee weapon. If you roll this special ability randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll.


you can only put this enchantment on a melee weapon. If you throw the weapon it does not gain the benifits of this ability as it is considered an improvised thrown weapon (or a regular thrown weapon in this case) and not a melee weapon at that point. This would work with a melee weapon standing next to the target tho.
#6b. embrace destiny only effects one roll (the roll to hit) and you need two rolls to hit for this to work. The roll to hit and the confirmation roll. You might still be able to do it if you cast true strike on yourself and saved the auto 20 for the confirmation hit might work. Na this still doesnt work as you need to roll a "natural 20" to get vorpal to proc.
#7. You still couldnt do this in one turn as you need to use a standard action to cast embrace destiny, so you couldnt attack till the second turn. Also, embrace destiny only lasts 1 round/level, so a level 1 oracle could not get it off in time.

So no, not really, at least not this way.
Also, one other point of debate. Does using a "recorded Number" and replacing your roll with it still count as rolling? There is no doubt you would crit, but can this be considered a "natural 20?" There is also this sentence to take into account...
"Upon completing this spell, roll a single d20 and record the result. At any point during the duration of this spell, you may use that roll for a single ability check, attack roll, initiative check, saving throw, or skill check, using the recorded result in place of a roll. This spell cannot be used to replace a roll that has already been made; the recorded result must be used instead of a roll. Once you have used this recorded result or the duration of the spell ends, the spell's effect ends. You can't have more than one instance of embrace destiny active on you at the same time."
If it is used "instead of a roll" is it considered rolling at all and if it can, would it be considered a "natural 20?" My thinking is no...

So again, it kinda works, you would still have snags and would have to convince the dm of the grey areas and you still have to confirm the crit somehow.

Next I will show you another trick that can really screw over the barbarian with a 4th level alchemist!


A level 4 alchemist with touch injection and skinsend.
Touch injection allows you to cast skinsend as a melee touch attack that takes effect immediately with saving throws applying as normal. Skinsend has no saving throw.
Skinsend rips your skin off of your body and dumps it in its own square beside you. Normally this takes 10 minutes but touch injection takes effect immediately.
Result: The target has 0 hps, is helpless, cannot be healed, and his consciousness is stuck inside his body. His body has his armor and gear, half hps, and cannot take any actions (as his consciousness is still in his body).
Next you attack the body for 10-15 damage and kill him outright!
1 turn prep time, 1 touch attack, and a little bit of damage and hes killed.


Gobo Horde wrote:
Well so far its kinda legal...

Chakram count as a melee weapon.

Any number before modifications is considered a natural "x". If I used embrace destiny with a value of 1 I would auto fail on any attack. Since my die roll is being counted as a 20 before modifiers, it is considered a natural 20 RAW. I've had GMs argue this point before though.

Confirmation rolls can be difficult, I agree. There isn't an easy answer to this as true strike is used up on the first roll. Usually I stack one time bonuses like legalistic oracles.

As far as casting a spell against yourself, I see no definition of "against" in the rule book, so I assume it means the same as casting "on" or "targeting". I've never heard this argument before.

That being said, yes it doesn't really work at level 1. Its more like level 2-4.

As for skinsend. This is awesome, is there anyway to put the touch attack into a spell storing arrow? Having a single point of bleed kick in after the spell hits would be amazing.


A level 10 half-elf synthesist summoner would easily smash them both. I know you said level 8 but if we have 155 points to work with, that is what the barbarian used, I do not see why you cannot take level 10 and pay the points for it. I left you some points to work with for defensive items. You only need low point buy because the eidolon replaces your physical stats. Use your favored class bonus to get an extra 2 evolution points.

Level 10 59
Low point buy 10
Source books 2
Gear 40
Total 111

Gear: +1 amulet of mighty fists

Feats: Weapon Focus (claw), Arcane Strike, Power Attack, Toughness

Evolutions 16 points: Large (4 points) Arms (2 points) 2x claws one for legs one for arms (2 points) energy attacks (2 points) rend (2 points) Pounce (1 point) Bite (1) Improved claws (2 points)

Rounds
1 - Cast summon eidolon
2 - Cast greater invisibility, move
3 - Cast something such as mage armor, acid pit, or haste, position self to pounce
4- Pounce, should drop them each in two rounds of combat even after they drink their +5 bark skin potions


Soporific Lotus wrote:

A level 10 half-elf synthesist summoner would easily smash them both. I know you said level 8 but if we have 155 points to work with, that is what the barbarian used, I do not see why you cannot take level 10 and pay the points for it. I left you some points to work with for defensive items. You only need low point buy because the eidolon replaces your physical stats. Use your favored class bonus to get an extra 2 evolution points.

He already said that you can go +/- 1 level, but no more or less according to the rules of the tournament.

Also, as for the aasimar trick above, you can't take Magical Lineage twice to reduce the metamagic cost by 2. You can only take one of any kind of trait (regional, racial, etc.), and since Magical Lineage is the same type as itself, it would be restricted by that. That said, since we're using levels 7-9, you have the higher level spell slot regardless.


...? Easy. Anything with Crane Style wrecks them. Various Save or suck spells work. Bows work. Chug a potion of Displacement or use Blind Fighting + Eversmoking Bottle. Tehre's an alchemical item that makes you immune to scent, IIRC.

Heck, you can beat these guys with a Bard or a Monk easily, if you want to rub it in.

The Bard:

Human Dervish Dancer Level 9
STR 14 / DEX 16 / CON 14 / INT 10 / WIS 10 / CHA 14

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Arcane Strike, Heart of... Something... that gives +1 to Inspire Courage, Clustered Shots

Equipment: Chainmail, Potion of Barkskin, Masterwork Composite Shortbow

HP 75
To Hit: +19
AC: 24, 50% Miss Chance
Damage: 1d6+2+6+2 = 13.5 (14.5 with PBS)

Round 1: Chug Barkskin and start Dancing
Round 2: Use Displacement, Move. When you move, make sure to split up but see each other, to maximize how many rounds you can fire without retaliation.
Roud 3+: Full Attack for 47 average damage, after DR. Concentrate your fire on one Barbarian at a time. In comparison, they deal an average of 14 damage to you, including 1 AoO per round.

Points: Attributes (20), Level (54), Masterwork Composite Shortbow (8), Armor (1), Potion of Barkskin +5 (50) = 134


The Sensei:

Tengu Quinggong Sensei Ki Mystic
STR 12 / DEX 16 / CON 14 / INT 7 / WIS 20 / CHA 5

Feats: Dodge, Point Blank Shot, Deflect Arrows, Precise Shot, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Crane Riptose

Equipment: Masterwork Rope Dart, Masterwork Kusari-Gama, Potion of Displacement

Notes: Trade something out for the Barkskin SLA and the Scorching ray SLA. If you can start drunk, be a Drunken Master.

HP: 75
AC: 24 (28 when Fighting Defensively), Displacement
To-Hit: +15 vs Touch

Tactics
Round 1: Activate Barkskin, Activate Bardic Music
Round 2: Chug Displacement, Move
Round 3+: Fire Eye Lasers, dealing an average of 34 Damage and Move in some order.
Round X: When one of them is dead from eye lasers, and the other is almost dead, whittle down the rest with basic weapon attacks.

You also move 80ft per move action so kiting them isn't an issue. If they do manage to catch up, quite honestly they can't damage you with any sense of reliability, between the miss-chance, massive AC, and Crane Style.


The Vulture wrote:

He already said that you can go +/- 1 level, but no more or less according to the rules of the tournament.

Also, as for the aasimar trick above, you can't take Magical Lineage twice to reduce the metamagic cost by 2. You can only take one of any kind of trait (regional, racial, etc.), and since Magical Lineage is the same type as itself, it would be restricted by that. That said, since we're using levels 7-9, you have the higher level spell slot regardless.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/wayang-spellhunter-minata

It does the same thing, but its a regional trait.


DiscOH wrote:
The Vulture wrote:

He already said that you can go +/- 1 level, but no more or less according to the rules of the tournament.

Also, as for the aasimar trick above, you can't take Magical Lineage twice to reduce the metamagic cost by 2. You can only take one of any kind of trait (regional, racial, etc.), and since Magical Lineage is the same type as itself, it would be restricted by that. That said, since we're using levels 7-9, you have the higher level spell slot regardless.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/wayang-spellhunter-minata

It does the same thing, but its a regional trait.

Oh, that's handy. Good catch.


You could argue that trait bonuses don't stack with that though.


Against those barbs you could probably use a couple of fighter 5/hellknight 3 hellknight commanders dual wielding kukris or short swords. Smite chaos takes care of the DR and then the AC 16 is no problem and you just beat them to death. Take the best possible armor and as many two weapon fighting feats as you can at that level, and take some teamwork feats to fill in.


For additional hilarity, you could use a pair of 8th level death domain clerics with extra channel, and improved unarmed strike, and reach spell and quick channel and just stand there and channel 4 times a round between the two of them, healing themselves and hurting the barbarians. use touch spells like cause critical wounds if they're still standing after getting hit by negative energy bursts like 20 times. Remember that death domain clerics heal with every channel too so you can just stand there and laugh while they beat on you.

Liberty's Edge

It seems to me, that the barbarians do not have a way to deal with invisibility, I'd just go invisible and play the harasser. Use save or suck spells till they fail them, They eventually will.

If you want to have some fun with them Use Oracles of Waves, and just cast Obscuring mist. Fire away, they can't even find you.


The Greater Invisible, Flying wizard should win the day easily. Does the arena have a ceiling? If not, your line of sight issues are pretty irrelevant.

Pack Dispel Magic and Acid Pit. Maybe also bring along some other damage over time spells, like Acid Arrow, or Flaming Sphere, to drop in the pit on them. You could also use Aqueous Orb to move them around the battlefield and maybe suffocate them, or drop them into a pit. There are numerous spells that could handle these guys without too much difficulty.


bfobar wrote:
You could argue that trait bonuses don't stack with that though.

They're not listed as a bonus, let alone a typed bonus, so there's no reason they wouldn't stack with each other outside of houseruling.

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