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Please cancel my adventure path subscription, thanks. Rogar
Is there anyone willing to run a game with the playtest classes?
Thanks for doing this! Bellona Valertis
Hi there everyone! Is anyone willing and able to run one (or more) of the following PF2 scenarios? -The Sandstone Secret
If possible it would much appreciated, since I need to get some practice with the new rules and I'm sure a lot of other people do...
Also 20 gp for a sword.
@everyone: Thanks for the answers I somehow missed the "strength" entry in the armor section of the CRB and I was convinced that the listed Str values were meant to be the requirement for wearing armor not to decrease or avoind penalties. Things make more sense now.
Why should someone choose heavy armor or even medium armor over light? Dex is a stat most fighting PCs will try to raise to at least 14 from the get go in PF2 and it's rather easy to do so and getting to dex 16 by level 5 is trivial. Once you do that there's no reason for your PC to wear medium or heavy armor. The item bonus to AC you can gain from a studded leather armor is +2 and the Dex cap is +3 So you get to 15. No medium armor can give you a better aggregated bonus to AC than a +5 yet their check penalty is -2 (against the -1 from studded leather), they all reduce speed by 5ft (light armor never does that and it's a huge drawback as you can't hit what you can't reach), bulk is heavier (2 for all medium armors vs 1 for light armors), medium armor generally costs more than light armor. All things considered it's rather clear how you'll be better off investing (less) in light armor than in medium armor. Heavy armor is comparatively even worse. Yes Full plate gives you +6 to AC but you can't get any Dex bonus, it's consioderably costier, it's rarer it penalizes you more and it makes you even slower. Plate can reduce some slashing damage but again the benefits of light armor considerably outweigh those offered by its heavy counterpart. So, unless there's something I'm not seeing I think there's really no inherent mechanical reason to favor heavy armor or medium armor over light (or, even better, no armor at all if you are a monk). If that's the case I think this was not the right choice. I agree with the concept of heavy armor being costier, bulkier and slowing you down but I think those disadvantage should be be lessened by some sort of payoff, chiefly more AC. As things stand now in PF2 heavy (and medium) armor is presented as being more prestigious than light armor (costing more, being rarer, requiring training to wear) yet mechanically it appears to be worse. This is a discrepancy between the rules and the game's background that I think need to be rectified somehow.
Well... I'm not that disappointed as this delay gives me the time to familiarize myself more with the new rules.
Because it's predictable. The savy and cunning operative survives, while the old baron charges onto his own death sadly overstimating his prowess. Is this the outcome you expect from reading the initial part of the story? I think so and that's exactly why a little subversion of the reader's expectations would have made me enjoy this story even more as it's extremely well written and the characters' personalities are well detailed.
Here I am, a bit late I fear. I'm trying to catch up with the new rules and I hope to have a character ready in the next few days!
Hi there, sorry for being late to the party.
In my opinion this was the best tale posted about Age of Lost Omens. The evil the dragon represents is very understandable and its victims are relatable on a human level. The encounter between a powerful old dragon commoners (a couple of experts perhaps?) and mid level heroes is well developed. The effects the dragonfear has on those unable to pass their checks (i.e. 90% of the population of Golarion)are well described as well. If I have a complaint is about the lack of subversion: we are told from the beginning who's smart and skilled and who's a boastful old fool. The baron dies an honorable yet ultimately meaningless death while the lady knight (probably a Lion Blade) survives and takes the commoner survivor under her wing to train and likely become the dragon slaying hero, a few hundred encounters later. This is predicatble. What if the old baron lived thanks to the Lion Blade sacrifice? Wouldn't that have been more inspiring on the future hero, more meaningful for his future development?
I've been skimming the Archives of Nethys 2E rules, and so far I gotta say there's nowhere near enough customization yet to tempt me into a purchase. If I read correctly, the *only* archetype material available in the core rulebook are the multiclass feats, which—I hate to say this—strongly, strongly reminded me of 4E D&D's multiclass feat thing, which I hated. I keep hearing talk of this debut being packed with content, and if what's meant by this is that the fundamental rules are different then sure. But insofar as depth of variety and customization? It's a boilerplate set of classes and races. That's fine for new players, but until there's substantially more content (and something to judge the new archetype system by that isn't just the crappy multiclass structure) I'm nowhere near to making a purchase. It's a CORE Rule Book. You can't expect the customization of PF1 at the end of the edition. Try to recall the PF1 CORE Rule Book, not a great deal of customization back then. Archetypes were not a thing for example and if you had played 3e D&D (not even 3,5) chance is the system differences would be too small for you to notice. That said, keep in mind the more you make something "customizable" the more the game system risks to be broken and things suddenly start looking all very similar DESPITE the potential for customization.
I was reeady to read my copy of the 2E CRB... then I found out I need to purchase the pdf separately or wait until my copy is delivered... XD
It's not that. I understand you wanted the APs to be aknowledged, I fully respect the notion actually and I've completed a couple of APs so I'm happy my efforts were accounted for. The problem I see is these previews you are giving us are not showing threats comparable to those that were defeated. Sure, the Whispering Tyrant gets to rule the Island of Terror and becomes a threat for the central part of Avistan but you yourself just pointed out in this very same thread he's not as powerful as other NPCs out there who are not on the side of evil (a certain redeemed Runelord for example). And all things considered, the Worldwound seemed like it was a bigger threat.
What I'm not seeing is new threats, new NPCs who might be a challange for legendary heroes and the fact most evil nations or organizations seem to have been weakened or defeated. Sure, Tar Baphon is a big bad lich (but even him is where he is AFTER getting ultimately beaten), but him aside I don't see challanges comparable to those present in 1st ed, and I see a lot of redeemed former opponents, defeated threats and not so scary anymore evil empires, which in my opinion is not good for adventuring. That said, I guess all I'm saying is: give GMs new toys!
Too many things in the updated setting seem to be like "good is winning". That's not a good thing in my book, games need challanges, heroes need horrible evil to vaniquish triumphing against all odds... instead too many things seem to have gone far too well in the world. Irrisen is not an evil place anymore now? The mammoth lords don't need to defend themselves against external threats anymore? Orcs are mostly focused on defying the Whispering Tyrant? And I could go on for quite a long time, considering all we have seen until now. I get the PCs had successes and that has to be accounted for, but I'm strating to feel like the "new challanges", when presented pale in comparison with what came before.
He has to be, right? Look at how adorable he looks in his portrait! That's the face of a sweetheart! Seems like he just stepped on one of his "experiments" by mistake... "Whoops! Sorry! It wasn't really my fault, you know... I wanted to test human reaction to high pressure and he just died on me! He obviously was flawed. We need more testing! Bring me another human!"
Well, he's a gold dragon, isn't he? Sure... does that make him LG by default though? :P
So... Mengkare is "benevolent" now? :P
I hope so. It IS someone you folks already know, after all. Mwa ha ha. My money is on Daralathyxl, the so called "Sixth King of the Mountains" :P
This is a good story to give readers the feel of Absalom's streets near the cathedral but I would not put to much attention on this Synarr fellow. He's an old and rich dude who thinks he has a chance at godhood, which undoubtedly mekes him the same as thousands of others before him, no more no less. It's there to give the reader a point of view which happens to be somehow unpalatable (a rich and arrogant guy). As for the 4 mortals who took the test of the starstone: -Aroden was already a wizard powerful enough to raise Absalom from the depths (so possibly even mythic). -Of Nagrober we don't know much, except he was Taldan. It seems likely he was a rogue of great skill and/or possibly an assassin. He spent a lot of effort obscuring his past so nothing is really certain. -Cayden Cailean was a Taldan sellsword and freedom fighter working out of Absalom. While mortal he was well known, which means he was probably an accomplished hero on his own (high level fighter, possibly multiclassed?). -Iomedae was an high level paladin and general of the Shining Crusade companion of general Arnisant himself (he was a lvl 20 cavalier), this means she was likely lvl 20 herself. All in all it seems like those who passed the test of the starstone were all exceptional individuals. None of them passed by mere chance, not even Cayden.
If fighting this out is not an option and that's clear to us then Wolfgang will just start searching the place.
I'm not sure dwarves were the strongest heritage before the patch (it was human imo) but now I'm quite sure they are among the worst.
All things considered I think Unburdened needs to be brought back as a general dwarven ability and I'd like for Call on Ancient Blood to be made useful somehow (either lose the -2 resonance drawback or not being a reaction).
Alerted by Warpac's warning you all run towards the exit, with the dwarf capable to reach under the flying wizard but not to attack him and Barm empowered by Tak with flight who comes near the fat man but can't attack as well. Vybus tries to cast a spell at the wizard but he shruggs off the effect.
The wizard steps aside from Barm, produces a tiny dagger and sproceeds to slice his mouth open... obviously causing himself to bleed profusely!
Round 02 - Bold may act Mutahir
Obese one -23hp, bleed1 Warpac
Nope. As far as I can see right now, a full caster will be always viable but getting martial stuff to cover your own deficencies may very well be appealing as well. As far as I can see things right now, this will make parties made of full casters to be the norm, some will be full dedicated casters, other will be multiclasses as there will be very little incentive to include full martial classes in the mix.
... 1. Because this game has classes. If some options are so much better than other options then, inevitably, the "less powerful options" will be less appealing than the "powerful" ones. On these same boards we have people who kept posting stuff like "rolling a martial is suboptimal. They can't carry their weight! Play a caster instead!". Classes need to have their identity and their strong and WEAK points. Making classess that can do everything well is not going top make the game good. 2. Saying that's fine to have an imballanced system because the GM can always enforce ballance is not a solution. Especially because those players who want to be able to do whatever they want and build whatever they feel like with no restrictions are usually the same people who then make a fuss when the DM says no to them. 3. This is a cooperative game but you also want the freedom to build characters with no limitations and therefore able to solve any problem on their own? So why do you need to cooperate with other players? Why not solve everything by yourself? Why do you need those other people if not to witness your greatness while you vanquish every challenge and win at D&D???
I think martials multiclassing into spellcasting are trading combat specializaiton/focus for less effectiveness in combat and some utility/buffing flexibility. A fighter will probably benefit more from multiclassing Barbarian (for rage) or Rogue (for Sneak Attack) if it wants to enhance DPR beyond what its own feats provide. What gives you "more" than gaining full caster progression? From what I've seen until now spells are still game changers. So on top of being able to fight well enough you'll also get to cast fireballs, turn invisible, raise the dead, and the like... Instead of making each class unique and therefore compelling this choice risks making everyone choose to multiclass into a spellcaster, because spellcasting is so damn powerful, versatile and not having it when everyone does means being left behind.I really hope I'm wrong. I really do.
I read the blog post and I think:"Damn, the developers really love spellcastrs! Now we'll get wizards keeping full caster progression and poaching martial stuff as well!" Then I read the comments and I realize a good part of the fanbase is irritated because said poaching has a few limitations set in place and they want none at all... I'm extremely worried by this choice. I fear the game will end with everyone being casters and people that choose to play a pure martial character will be left far behind in the powercurve. Which is exactly THE problem D&D 3.X had (so including PF1).
On a somewhat similar note, game 82 has completed recruitment (well, we have one player with a 7th lvl character who might not be able to increase its lvl enough to join by 10/1, and no one signed up for the waiting list) but there's still the problem of the session being marked as the Street Rose Revenge instead than The Lion's Justice. I know you sent Jesse a mail for this, perhaps he forgot?
Any news on when The Solstice Scar C special games will be open for recruitment?It already is, details - HERE Got it. Thanks Shify.
Any news on when The Solstice Scar C special games will be open for recruitment?
I've got 2 characters who could join the game if possible.
Good thing they can eliminate the speed bump that was the Test of the Starstone, right?Good thing the PC's are exceptions to the normal populace of lvl 1-5 commoners right? I wanted to adress this because I find it terribly disingenuous: getting to do SOME exceptional and/or supernatural acts at high level DOES NOT turn a character into a god. It just makes them incredibly good at something very specific. Gods in D&D and Pathfinder are a whole different story powerwise, and exaggerating the issue claiming that a character getting a few legendary feats when he/she reaches high level automatically turns them into gods appears to be just an attempt to manipulate the issue with false assumptions.
I like what I see here. Legendary seems fine to me. Think about what Lvl 15+ represents. There's justy a handful of people in the whole world who can reach this level. They are basically superhuman and can do things "normals" cannot hope to mimic. As for the in game reason, they are just that good. Much like you rationalize the bearded guy with the tinfoil hat altering reality by snapping his fingers because he's read a book and burned some stuff you can rationalize someone so impossibly skilled that he's able to precisely dissipate the kinetic energy of any fall he takes without being injured. He's just that good, period. Think of legendary characters (Pcs and NPCs) as supernatural. You have no problems with having dragons in your games, right? Then you should have no problems with legendary characters being able to survive falling from any height. P.S. Legendary skills as shown are actually pretty mild powerwise. They compare to low level spells at most. Yet some people feel like this is way out of line. If PF2 were to keep non casters (even high level ones) firmly anchored to "reality" while giving casters the usual pass ("Because magic!", "There's a spell for that!", "Non casters cannot do their job, better build a wizard!") PF2 would completely fail to fix one of PF1 most glaring problems imo.
Are we back to having Schrodinger's Wizard debates? Does the new system allow for Schrodinger's Wizard to exist? If the answer is "Yes" then, YES we are going to have those debates again.
I'm sure you're aware of a certain high tier scenario where the players have to battle some high level caster. That scenario has a hard mode that essentially TPKs frequently...A bit off-topic here, lets not derail the thread... but this is SO opposite of my experience of PF1. A lone caster very rarely survives more than a single round against a party of martials.
Is he? He first showed up in the early 90s, didn't he? And 3.0 didn't even come out until 2000. I think it's pretty clear he was intended to represent 2.0 (although I don't know much beyond the early stuff so it's possible the nature of his portrayal changed after 3.0/3.5.)ElminsterWell he is a 3.P caster, so he can't be a counterpoint. Doesn't matter when Elminster was introduced, he was and always will be its creator's self insert and the epitome of a Mary Sue (Gary Stu?) character. According to Greenwood Elminster is a fighter/cleric/rogue/wizard/archmage/chosen of Mystra. He's supremely powerful with his magic, immortal, has bedded the Goddess of Magic, got her to do his bidding more than once, slept with a few of the 7 sisters, which he was supposedly the guardian of.Elminster would be THE poster child for the CMD if it were not for the fact he's such a blatant self insert that he's well beyond the concept of CMD and in a whole category of his own.
Seems like a decenty reworking of the wizard although I'm worried not enough was done to avoid the issue with casters being able to do anything thanks to their spells, outshining everyone else in the process.
The game can be played without a 20 in a starting attribute now and I'm confident it will be possible to play it without a 20 in starting attribute in PF2. P.S. In PF1 you can easily play a dwarf wizard with a starting int of 18 and 16 con.
Thanks for reading and commenting everyone.
Edit: @ Iron_Matt17: Yes a Chaotic character can "fall" (or "raise" in certain cases). For example the "Liberator" outlined above would fall if he forced someone to do something against his or her will, if he could free slaves but chose not to do it and so on. The matter is these aspects embody and are powered by an alignment. The moment they start acting against it they start losing their powers. Since a character can act contrary to the Chaotic ideal he can also lose the power bestowed upon him. Yet the Paladin is not a "chassis" is a very specific class. Reducing it to a "chassis" is just making the Paladin generic instead of specific and I for one absolutely don't want that.
As expected the recent blog about the PF2 paladin stirred up quite the debate.
Here's my take on the 9 alignment "aspects" then: LG → The Paladin → This is basically the guy we all know and love. He fights evil, defends law, respects authority, and generally speaking he tries to lead by example.
NG → The Benefactor → This guy aims to do good above all. Whenever he encounters evil he fights it. He may not be as obvious or as bold in his actions as the Paladin is, he may even choose stealth in order to accomplish evil's defeat because making good is the most important thing. He doesn't have strong feelings towards law or authority. If they are good he follows them, if not he opposes them but the system holds a limited appeal for him, obviously evil laws need to go but having good people are more important than having good laws.
CG → The Liberator → To the Liberator Freedom is Good and Good is Freedom. This aspect fights against evil but he's suspicious of the system, doesn't care about laws and does not respect authority even if those in power are good people, because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. He may trust people who shared his battles but this has to be earned with actions he will never put faith in someone because of his title or social position.
LN → The Enforcer → Law is absolute and must be obeyed without question says the Enforcer. He doesn't care for good or evil, just for following the law to the letter because for him that's its own reward. The Enforcer will work for the system and violently oppose those who threaten it. Morality is an alien concept for the Enforcer unless the act of following the rules and authority figures could be considered moral, which he probably does.
N → The Equalizer → Excesses of any kind are bad, moderation in all things is the way to go. The Equalizer sees himself as something of a necessity, someone tasked with stopping extremist alignments to unbalance creation. If good or evil, law of chaos rule the land he will oppose them and try to establish balance between opposing forces by whatever means necessary. Once the scales are balanced he will try to keep them that way even if this could very well be a futile endeavor and his work never truly done.
CN → The Anarchist → The Anarchist embodies absolute freedom of the self and resents those who would try to impose rules on others. The Anarchist is not malevolent, he does not go out of his way to hurt people in order to get what he wants but he does not feel compelled to help others as well. The Anarchist believes governments, laws, authority figures are wrong by themselves, that they are dangerous and need to be erased, so he will violently oppose them whenever possible.
LE → The Tyrant → Laws are needed and authority must be respected. A working, functional system is something precious that should be cherished... and exploited for personal gain by those that can master it. Superiors should be respected... until you can prove yourself better than them and take their place within the system. Subjects are inferior because they deserve it, their lot is unquestioning obedience. They should be grateful for being allowed to be a cog in the Machine you keep well oiled and functional. Rebellion and defiance must be stomped out and punished severely. The Tyrant will make use of other people in order to increase his personal power with little regard for their safety. To him they exist to serve but as long as they know their place he will not act against them although he Tyrant will feel the need to put them in their place. He will also prove a relentless foe to those who threaten the system he works within.
NE → The Malefactor → The Malefactor will go out of his way not only for personal gain but also to make sure other people suffer and the conditions are right for evil to triumph. This aspect actually worships evil and wants its malevolent rule to spread. In order to do so he tries to cause people to suffer and to work against each other rewarding the most heinous and depraved of acts. To further this agenda rules and laws may be useful but ultimately the system is not important by itself. What counts is that people do evil onto each other. Fortunately the Malefactor is there to ensure this will happen. The Malefactor can be subtle or flashy with his actions, he's a pragmatist and will do things the way he thinks is best to get to his goals.
CE → The Antipaladin → To the Antipaladin life is simple. The strong shall do as they please and the weak shall suffer the consequences. Law and order are just lies, chains forged to keep the strong to rule and therefore they need to be destroyed. A true sociopath, the Antipaladin doesn't care for anyone else but himself and proves no remorse for his actions, no matter how heinous. The Antipaladin may solemnly give his word to an ally and then betray him an hour later because he thinks he will gain something by doing so. The Antipaladin rules and leads others because of his personal strength and the fear he inspires. He knows and enjoys this and may resort to torture and murder just to remind everyone why he's boss.
This is what I think these "aspects" should be thematically. It goes without saying everyone of them should have different mechanics and different ways to "fall".
I support Paizo and their choice to launch PF2.
"Liberator" is just a term. Depending on his personality a follower of Groetus embodying the CG ideal enough to get empowered by it won't necessarily fight for "Freedom" itself but will oppose those who want to impose themselves over the fate of others messing with their fate in the process.
The paladin is LG. That doesn't mean other alignments shoud not have their own holy warriors as long as they are different than the paladin.
That said: -The paladin as we know him is LG.
These are easy. As for NG/N/NE/LN/CN I need to think on them a bit more before suggesting anything.
I honestly have trouble telling the difference between NG and CG in practice, unless I look at someone's character sheet. Since both are in the sort of place where they break the rules when it suits them, in order to create the greatest good. I'm not really sure these are actually different alignments, really. A neutral good character will do good things because he personally feels it's the right thing to do. He won't challenge the laws of the land unless they are clearly unjust and even then he won't go out of his way to change them. On the other hand he won't feel any remorse in violating such laws in order to accomplish good. A Chaotic Good character won't care for laws or authority figures in general although he will not break them if he feels they make sense and probably won't challenge authority figures if they do good, on the other hand he will always be suspicious of them. For a chaotic good character doing good, break the law and then move on is not enough. A chaotic good character will also go on a crusade against the law and will go out of his way not only to defeat evil authority figures but also to question the very meaning of their position. Example: Slavers are riding their halfling slaves to the auction block. NG character will ambush them, free the slaves, help them escape and then vanish into the night. CG character will ambush the slavers, free the slaves, help them escape, and then keep fighting against the regulators who made slavery legal in the country. He will also make it clear to everyone who will listen how base and unjust the tyranny of law is and how every good person has a moral duty to uphold freedom against such evils.
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