I will be running a modified Council of Wyrms using pathfinder for my upcoming game. I am using the Dremscared press monster classes true dragons for the PCs but I was hoping for some more options for them and had a few questions myself.
1. Is there any more in-depth description / discussion of the fly skill? It will come up a lot and I want to be on top of the nuances.
2. Do you have a favorite dragon related feat, item or bit of lore I should work into the story?
3. Is there a good one shot adventure that features a dragon as the final boss? I am looking to have the PCs watch someone’s lair, just for a minute, and they have to deal with an adventurer infestation.
If you’ve done something similar and there were any unexpected pitfalls I would love to hear other advice as well
I recommend In the Company of Dragons Expanded from Rite Publishing.
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1. What are some things you're hoping to cover that aren't currently? I'd suggest just jotting down a few notes and maybe a table for reference during play.
2. Oh, man. 3rd's Draconomicon was just chock full of all kinds of crazy stuff. Items to make dragon's natural attacks better, metabreath feats. But all of it definitely felt unnecessary.
But when it comes to dragons, I think going back to the classic tropes can be refreshing. Stealing princesses and whatnot. Maybe add a little twist; the dragon wooed the princess and won her heart, and now the two are in love, and she carries the dragon's heir within her. The players have to defend her from self-righteous knights?
If you can, I'd look through the book "Dealing with Dragons". It's a light-hearted story for young readers, but a princess having to shoo away unwanted knights and such--seems like it could have some good story seeds for you.
I would definitely consider having multiple waves of adventurers; first you've got your standard dungeon-crawlers. Then the knight in shining armor. And finally, grim and ruthless, the professional dragonslayers.
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I've run a 3rd party adventure called "We be Dragons" (CR 5) a few times and I've even written up my own "Part 2" (CR 7) adventure for it, tweaking the rules just slightly to allow for growth in power as dragons.
I completely removed the concept of experience for the players and let them know that dragons become more powerful with time, not through adventuring. Adventuring gets them LOOT for their hoard. The little 'time skips' allow for them to grow in power and spend downtime managing their territories (aka 'little kingdoms').
Currently, there are nine juvenile dragons (five of which are player controlled) that are part of the same 'clutch' operating in the same general area that borders the larger territories of two very different, very powerful older dragons. They've befriended one of them and are plotting to take out the older one through diplomacy and deception. Something that will take YEARS to set up.
In the 'lore' that I set up, dragons require mentoring by older dragons (typically their parents) during their early years to fully develop their dragon heritage, otherwise they start changing and their development gets a bit chaotic, leading to lesser dragon species or mutations. The dragons the players are controlling spent their early days with a Halfling Bard who saved their eggs from destruction, and so their powers developed along the lines of the stories and tales he told them from his vast experiences. They were weaker than a normal dragon of their age, as far as physically, but they got some class abilities to replace the power loss.
The biggest thing to watch out for is that dragons ... are TERRIFYING to normal people. Its a good thing to stress to the players in the game. All dragons tend to believe that their presence ought to be acknowledged by others, but each alignment handles it differently. And, depending on their age, remind the characters that they still have child-like urges and thought patterns, tiny temptations to go after shiny things and the like.
1. What are some things you're hoping to cover that aren't currently?
Nothing specific. Blood of the sea and i believe somewhere in skulls and shackles have an overview of swimming and underwater combat and I was hopping for something along those lines. Something that points at answers to questions I didn’t know to ask.
2. Oh, man. 3rd's Draconomicon was just chock full of all kinds of crazy stuff. Items to make dragon's natural attacks better, metabreath feats. But all of it definitely felt unnecessary.
But when it comes to dragons, I think going back to the classic tropes can be refreshing. Stealing princesses and whatnot. Maybe add a little twist; the dragon wooed the princess and won her heart, and now the two are in love, and she carries the dragon's heir within her. The players have to defend her from self-righteous knights?
I have the Draconomicon somewhere, I will track that down. I also like the idea of self righteous knights. For that mater appropriately righteous knights if the PCs decide to be chromatic.
If you can, I'd look through the book "Dealing with Dragons". It's a light-hearted story for young readers, but a princess having to shoo away unwanted knights and such--seems like it could have some good story seeds for you.
Love that series. By first solo book and I read them once a year. Council of Wyrms definitely has a proper manners and order vibe and I will lean into that. Getting “but that’s how it’s done!” From on high and there enemies will likely push a few over the edge.
I would definitely consider having multiple waves of adventurers; first you've got your standard dungeon-crawlers. Then the knight in shining armor. And finally, grim and ruthless, the professional dragonslayers.
I was thinking doing this early as juveniles or young adults but if I push it later I could let the Players run some of the guardians.
I completely removed the concept of experience for the players and let them know that dragons become more powerful with time, not through adventuring. Adventuring gets them LOOT for their hoard. The little 'time skips' allow for them to grow in power and spend downtime managing their territories (aka 'little kingdoms').
We run a lot of adventure paths so we go by milestone rather than exp most of the time. To the loot aspect have you had them keep an amount of there treasure for there hoards? Do you give out more treasure so they don’t fall behind? I am debating using automatic bonus progression and saying x amount must go to your hoard. Not sure yet on that.
In the 'lore' that I set up, dragons require mentoring by older dragons ...
Council of Wyrms has something similar. I definitely want to make them feel like top of the food chain when out in the world then little fish in a big pond when dealing with dragon politics.
The biggest thing to watch out for is that dragons ... are TERRIFYING to normal people. Its a good thing to stress to the players in the game. All dragons tend to believe that their presence ought to be acknowledged by others, but each alignment handles it differently. And, depending on their age, remind the characters that they still have child-like urges and thought patterns, tiny temptations to go after shiny things and the like.
That is not something I had thought much of but you are absolutely right. I will make an effort to push the terror into the RP. Even with there enemies to a degree.
We run a lot of adventure paths so we go by milestone rather than exp most of the time. To the loot aspect have you had them keep an amount of there treasure for there hoards? Do you give out more treasure so they don’t fall behind? I am debating using automatic bonus progression and saying x amount must go to your hoard. Not sure yet on that.
Generally, any and all of the loot they get goes to their hoards. I'm using some automatic progression rules from the Unchained book to make sure their AC, saves and attack progressions don't suffer from not being able to wear standard magic items. Dragons are known for their sheer might, sharp wit, and deadly magics... not for their sword wielding or plate mail barding. If there is a magic item that the character wants to make use of, I have rules to allow for the dragons to absorb the magic into themselves, but that ability is limited.
Council of Wyrms has something similar. I definitely want to make them feel like top of the food chain when out in the world then little fish in a big pond when dealing with dragon politics.
Yeah, that's the feel I wanted them to have as well. I started them out with a fight with a group of owlbears, with an advanced alpha owlbear as the leader of the band, that were attacking a caravan the dragons 'allowed' to travel through their land if given tribute for protection. The adventure grew when a powerful, out of season hurricane blew in from the sea and separated the clutch from each other. They ended up finding each other but only after coming across a severally wounded elder dragon (the source of the storm) that had protected their siblings from the larger, older and evil dragon from the north. They made friends by expending all their healing abilities to save the wounded dragon.
That is not something I had thought much of but you are absolutely right. I will make an effort to push the terror into the RP. Even with there enemies to a degree.
Yeah, I had the NPCs act like how people normally act with large cats (like tigers and lions), knowing that their is an untamed, intelligent beast that could very well eat them but might not as long as they were being polite and non-threatening. And that was just when the players had dragons that were only medium sized (one hovering near the large mark).