You shouldn't equate the lack of balance and lack of editing and playtesting that content in Adventure Paths has been seen/done by the senior development staff to content in a new Hardcover rulebook. The two are nowhere near the same, AP options are only ever really intended to be used within the scope of those adventures and any that MIGHT take place afterward which is, to be honest, almost completely unlikely as very few games continue after PCs are level 12 or so. I'm not sure there is even one AP that has launched that didn't have some broken, super vague, or overly OP/gonzo options and or equipment for it for PF2.
Apples and Oranges.
Lost Omens: Firebrands was not an Adventure Path, and was indeed a hardcover book. It was a Lost Omens setting book rather than a Pathfinder rulebook, so you're right that it's not quite the same thing, but I'd say that it's more like tangerines and clementines than apples and oranges. In any case, it's content that is indeed intended to be used in a variety of campaigns and indeed in Pathfinder Society; last I checked, the Lost Omens-originating leshies were even available without a boon.
So, this is drawing on experience with other systems, but, generally, at least nowadays, people aren't as concerned with being godly powerful as they are about being hot and badass and effortlessly amazing at everything... And we already had that book. Firebrands allows you to play the most interesting, most impressive, most daringly desirable (and desirably daring), ego-fueled-and-fueling character imaginable, to the point of abilities referencing your mortal enemies leagues-deep in the Darklands somehow being your personal superfans and squeeing over you noticing them.
And that's awesome.
If this class, and it is really just a class, and a Rare playtest one at that, is going to summon problem players, it's a bit late to the party because they're presumably already playing Firebrand Vigilante Celebrities already. Are they? I genuinely don't know. However, I really don't think that this class will do any more than that, though I don't want to disrespect those who have less-than-ideal play situations prone to problem players.
That said, it does feel pretty disrespectful to suggest that the Exemplar is trying to replicate or suggest the Disney version of Maui, of all things. Even the Demiplane version references the actual cultural tradition (or, at least one of them). Nahoa doesn't even look all that much like him; any present visual similarities are, I'm pretty sure, because they're both referencing the same mythologies and cultural contexts.
...
Honestly, I'm expecting more tension around the Animist. There's an element of relinquishing character control in certain abilities that isn't explicitly in the hands of the player (particularly Possession Echo), but I'll have to play that PFS character I'm cooking up first to say for sure.
I feel like Rare has to be more than something than just being rare in the mundane sense. Our two uncommon classes are uncommon because they engage in setting material that is designed not to be widespread through Golarion and may clash with certain campaign aesthetics.
So a Rare class should be one that has some quality that makes a GM go "no wait I don't want to have to deal with that in my story" above and beyond the sorts of issues people have with Gunslingers.
Well, now that we know Exemplar is a larger than life hero that can punch the sun, that is certainly something that could clash with certain campaign aesthetics and make some DMs turn up their nose.
Wait - can he seriously punch the sun?
In a metaphysical "Oh, sure, the sun is a big ball of plasma, a quantum-powered fusion reactor, the local manifestation of the Forge of Creation, a portal to the Plane of Fire, Sarenrae's sacred celestial body and some wizard's personal beach resort, but it's also a shining disc in the sky. I can punch the shining disc." sort of way, I would assume.
Absolutely lovely! Timely too, as I'm hopefully just about to run an Ustalav campaign. I shall be sharing these insights with my players...
I also like the past/present/future element as a way to reinterpret the alignment focus for Remaster characters. I was halfway to reworking every single card into a position on the River of Souls or role in Ustalav/Pharasmin tradition. Paladin as the Priest of Hammers, Plague as the Tragedy of Shields, Marriage as the Birth of Crowns, and so forth. Might still do that, just for fun, and with due respect to the cards.
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Also, the commitment to respectful use of pronouns is truly heartening. I needed to see a little of that, thank you.
If the curse were to interface with an Anadi's ancestral shape-changing magic... wouldn't it be messing with their power to turn into a human? What does the bestial, horror movie super-wolf form of a human look like?
supernatural identity theft tangent:
No silly Neanderthalesque stereotypes here, why not go the other way? Sharpen up the angles, pointy skull and pointier teeth, long, terrible, dextrous limbs good for chucking rocks and gouging eyes, terrifyingly clever, tricksy, and truly relentless on the hunt. Almost vampiresque in their predatory grace. Some sort of bonus to improvised weapons instead of an unarmed strike, perhaps, and a massive bonus to deception and the will to use it... Suddenly, your Anadi friend, whom you've locked in a cage, is begging for you to release them. Invoking all of your close moments, the dreams you know them to have, the laughs you've shared.
Any Anadi would recognise it. They're shapeshifters. They know their own.
But you don't know that this is a perversion. You don't know that this strange, too-familiar form is what a werehuman looks like.
And maybe you get talking.
And maybe you get too close.
And, just maybe... Maybe this hypothetical has gone far enough. I've already given myself the heebie-jeebies.
...Saying that, I also super like the idea of a big scary horror spider. Just thought it might be cool to explore the space of the human side being the wereform, hitting the uncanny valley a little when everyone expects a scary spider, so long as your group is okay with it.
If a creature is on a different plane, or otherwise Elsewhere, and you go, "hey, come here" and it appears next to you, you have summoned it to this plane. Or, rather, that's what I usually mean when I refer to summoning, particularly in the context of a fantastical role-playing game.
If you have a permanent life-bond with a very specific creature on a different plane that allows you to empower and rely on that creature, to the extent that going "hey, come here" and fighting alongside that creature becomes the main thing that makes you special, I would be prepared to argue that that qualifies you for the title of Summoner. Eragon isn't disqualified from the title of Dragon Rider just because he only typically rides the one.
However, yes, if you are used to "summoner" meaning, in an RPG context, that you can create pawns on the battlefield and chuck them at your problems without worrying too much about your "summons"' personal experiences, then, yes, the PF2 Summoner doesn't lean into that enough, even if it's better at it than most other characters. For me, that's simply not necessary to be called a summoner; I'd call that a conjurer first, because you're conjuring a facsimile of a creature from magic rather than really summoning a living, breathing creature from Somewhere Else. However, it absolutely makes sense that you think the class misnamed if that's your class fantasy.
And, yes, if you require that the descriptive name of the class matches up with a mechanical trait and its associated effects, or at least to have the word be a little bit more peppered about the class description even if it means re-clarifying that trait, the Summoner doesn't fit that either. I don't need that, and that doesn't make me delusional, but it's fair enough if that feels misnamed to anyone. I doubt the precise mechanics of this class were front-of-mind when the "Summoned" trait was being designed back at launch, so there is a perhaps misleading gap in the language there.
Ultimately, most of the disagreement on this point in particular seems to be a simple difference of opinion being misunderstood as, well, misunderstanding. Which isn't much fun for anyone. It's certainly less fun than the great clash of TTRPG philosophies going on in the other half of this thread, but I can't really talk about that until I finally get some proper play experience with this system in particular... Except to say that Easl's most recent post on the matter is fantastic.
Now. Back to the hibernation.
...
(As if. I know for a fact that I'll be active during the playtest, at least until I try to organise taking part and my health gives out again. Someone softly chide me if I don't join PFS this time; I got so close with the Kineticist.)
I also really like these story updates! It's nice how this and her old MtI really fill in one another's gaps.
Is the implication that she's never really adventured in the Inner Sea, or was it a sort of absurdly-out-of-her-way Odyssey-style detour? Either way, I like the new focus on the Tien side of the world rather than coming up with a reason for her to journey her way west via the icy north; it really helps the whole place feel like a cohesive fantasy world, which is a huge advantage of having a planet-focused setting. Plus, it gives her that looovely character moment. Flame On, Yoon!
I was sorry to see her inexplicable-yet-storyful icepuck stick go, though it clearly doesn't fit her new design, which is, as said, rad, so it's no great loss. So happy to see Gom-Gom still here, even if he's not quite as talkative; I'll still hold that detail about him being the first to accept her real name close to my heart.
Also? I can see that Intimidation bonus well, and I love it.
...From pint-sized packrat to pyro-punk badass! Gah! So cool!
An interesting thing one might do to keep the range while boosting damage could be adding the Volley trait, representing that the element of Air is all about building up speed and power over distance, either directly at long range or by whirling in melee. Mechanically, this would mean that you have a dead zone or "air gap" between your ranged and melee abilities, which might be interesting to play with.
overflow becomes less of an issue at level 6 with cycling blast
How so?
I think people miss the impulse trait on it and what that means.
To clarify for those that did indeed miss it, it means that it can't be used without a Gathered Element. Cycling Blast is a switching tool, not an action economy enhancer for Overflow actions.
I'm with you on that one. I'd really like a wee bit more focus on the elemental blast not necessarily in damage but in weapon traits and other cool combat bonuses.
Honestly I would like to see a quick gather(like quick draw) action that gathers and kinetic blasts in 1 action.
May I introduce you to Cyclic Blast.
Cyclic Blast can't be used after an Overflow action as it has the Impulse trait, so would not be useful to solve the problem that people are having with the action economy. It's a free attack for switching element, not a solution to Gathering anew.
Anything can change based on the results of the playtest! These are early iterations of the new class; some abilities might be a bit extreme or stretch some assumptions of the game, and the best way to find out if we’ve gone too far (or in the wrong direction) is for us to deliver a class into your hands. We don’t expect to release any changes to these classes during the playtest itself, only in the final version of the book.
Even Inventor and Investigator cannot benefit from MC with the Kineticist.
Due the Subordinate Actions restriction Devise a Stratagem don't work because "If you Strike the chosen creature later this round, you must use the result of the roll you made to Devise a Stratagem for your Strike's attack roll instead of rolling. You make this substitution only for the first Strike you make against the creature this round, not any subsequent attacks." as Elemental Blast isn't a pure Strike, Devise a Stratagem cannot be applied to it too.
Same for Inventors "Your gizmos go into a state of incredible efficiency called critical overdrive, adding great power to your attacks. Your Strikes deal additional damage equal to your Intelligence modifier for 1 minute. After the Overdrive ends, your gizmos become unusable as they cool down or reset, and you can't use Overdrive for 1 minute.
Magus' spellstrike doesn't apply too: "You channel a spell into a punch or sword thrust to deliver a combined attack. You Cast a Spell that takes 1 or 2 actions to cast and requires a spell attack roll. The effects of the spell don't occur immediately but are imbued into your attack instead. Make a melee Strike with a weapon or unarmed attack. Your spell is coupled with your attack, using your attack roll result to determine the effects of both the Strike and the spell. This counts as two attacks for your multiple attack penalty, but you don't apply the penalty until after you've completed the Spellstrike. The infusion of spell energy grants your Strike the arcane trait, making it magical." and even Arcane Cascade works because the Impulses aren't spells.
Ranger cannot benefit from many feat but Flurry Ranged reduced MAP and Precision Damage can (precision Ranger could benefit even from Spell Attacks).
Thaumaturge also don't benefit Elemental Blast due Mortal Weakness and Personal Antithesis only applies to unarmed and weapon Strikes, Implement's Empowerment also only works with...
I understand your point, and you're right about Spellstrike, but a subordinate Strike is still a Strike. The overall Action you're taking isn't a Strike, so nothing triggers off that overall Action and it can't be used when another ability says "do a Strike" (as with Spellstrike), but the subordinate Strike still activates any abilities that apply to Strikes (such as Rage, which doesn't care whether or not your Strike happens as part of another action).
Your interpretation would imply that, for instance, Barbarians don't get Rage damage on the subordinate Strike from Attack of Opportunity, which makes Giants cry. It'd also mean that Runes like Flaming ("an additional 1d6 fire damage on a successful Strike") wouldn't apply on the subordinate Strike from Retributive Strike, which would make Paladins cry. That seems unlikely.
A strength-focus is suggested by the Earth element, but it also suggests an up-close style of play unsupported by the armour options if you don't still pump Dex. This means that your character likely has to end up with poor-to-average Mental scores unless you dump your Class DC and HP.
I find the chance for a PC to have access to the Brutal trait so rad that I'm definitely going to be playing a Geokineticist and hurling rocks around like Pohatu, but I'd like to be at least a little durable when doing so.
While I really want the class to get medium armor built in, characters can after a few levels get both medium and heavy armor. Needing to wait levels for AC is not great for survival, but Str based characters without high dex don't sacrifice ranged attacks, so you can have a switch hitter with "full" accuracy in both without needing to pump both stats.
That's a very good point, though it seems weird for a clearly signposted built-in synergy to require an out-of-class feat.
It does seem like Fighter will be the best Blast Kineticist if the Archetype gives access to Gather and Blast without any changes.
I wonder if that's not intentional.
To once again reference the obvious touchstone, and apologies if these names mean nothing to you, Toph and Azula may be full Kineticists with all the varied abilities so implied, but Zuko (who relies mostly on martial skill combined with elemental blasting) could be some sort of Rogue with a Kineticist Dedication.
I think I'd like that, actually. A Geo-Investigator who lines up his rock-shots like Bolin would be rad (and work really, really well with a firearm Elemental Weapon), and a sneak-attacking PyRogue assassin who uses Desert Shimmer as an in-combat stealth tool would be really fun too.
the problem is a kinetic blast is not a "strike" so it does not intigrate into most martial classes unique mechanics at all
It includes a strike as a subordinate action, which means that it works alright with a fair few of them. Magus and Swash are probably bad ideas as only the non-nova half of their kit works, but here's the list as best I can tell:
Barbarian's Rage: Yes (melee only)
Champion's Reaction: No
Fighter's Accuracy/Feat Actions: Yes/No
Gunslinger: N/A
Inventor's Overdrive: Yes (especially Armor Innovation for Offensive Boost as unarmed bonuses explicitly work with Elemental Blast)
Investigator's Devise a Stratagem: Yes (ranged or finesse/agile only)
Magus' Arcane Cascade/Spellstrike: Yes/No (melee only)
Monk's Flurry of Blows: No
Ranger's Hunter's Edge: Yes (but the feats often don't)
Rogue's Sneak Attack: Yes (ranged or finesse/agile only)
Swashbuckler's Precise Strike/Finishers/Riposte: Yes/No/No (melee finesse/agile only)
Thaumaturge's Mortal Weakness/Personal Antithesis/Implement's Empowerement: Yes*/Yes*/Yes (*assuming that the weakness is ruled as a bonus to your unarmed strike; arguably RAW no)
Every single No answer is also allowed by Elemental Weapon with a few more caveats, including some of the Gunslinger's reload actions.
A strength-focus is suggested by the Earth element, but it also suggests an up-close style of play unsupported by the armour options if you don't still pump Dex. This means that your character likely has to end up with poor-to-average Mental scores unless you dump your Class DC and HP.
I find the chance for a PC to have access to the Brutal trait so rad that I'm definitely going to be playing a Geokineticist and hurling rocks around like Pohatu, but I'd like to be at least a little durable when doing so.
This was my thinking too, but unfortunately Gathering an Element disperses any Element already Gathered... Which also means no dual-wielding of Elemental Weapons and not much incentive not to use a shield for blasters. This is something that I really hope that they can change.
My group and I were discussing about this topic and we came across a solution, you can have an element gathered with gather element which uses your inner gate and use the gather option from adapt element to gather another element in your free hand since it doesn't use your inner gate as it says:
Gather (any element) You Gather the Element, drawing it from the environment instead of from your inner gate.
As a master I would rule you can do this since you are using two different sources for each element. So you can have an elemental weapon in one hand and use the other hand to use ranged blast attacks.
Hm... You're still Gathering the Element as a subordinate action to Adapt Element, so all the rules of that action still apply even if it has a different source. It's a fun houserule but it doesn't work per the text unfortunately.
All this talk of Elements and Masters is making me very excited to play some sort of Automaton Kineticist...
If that'd be the case, why would the designers use the same effect with two different action economy features? It is pointless to use gather with adapt element which spends 2 of your actions vs using gather element that is a 1 action feature with no using limit, moreover both features have the manipulate trait which means they trigger AOO.
Bad or rushed design or intentional? I wish I knew.
My suspicion is that they have thought of this, and that it's because that will be the only way for the Multiclass Kineticist to Gather an Element. That'd make Multiclassing much more about getting the full Blast (which works with a lot of other Martials' damage boosters) without having Overload actions be quite so easy to access. Just my suspicion, and I admit that that may be partially because I really really want that to be the case.
I'd love to play a Tiefling Fire/Earth Dual Gate with a focus not on Elemental magma but on Hellish brimstone, ideally with some Acidic sulphur and Poisonous smoke abilities if that's possible. Would also work as a Reaction Vanguard in Starfinder, but I'd really like to do it in this system because Tieflings have so many more options.
Having an actual gate to Hell in one's soul would also offer some delicious roleplaying opportunities, because that makes the usual Tiefling struggle way more intense and in-the-room, if that makes sense. I'd be trying to be a good person, and drawing on the literal powers of Hell to do so. Is using my only applicable skill an Evil action? Am I worsening the world in ways I cannot understand by using the only hammer in the box to fight all these nails? Obviously, one would hope that the answer is "no" or at least "yes, but there are ways not to", but I'd be comfortable leaving that up to the GM to surprise me with.
Perhaps being a Tiefling would be the result of such a gate rather than its cause, and my character has watched their body warp and shift under the Hellish influence of their own power... We have options!
To venture a touch beyond reflavouring, I'd also ask the GM if we could just switch that pesky "Primal" trait over to "Divine", but that's a minor detail that wouldn't hugely impact the character overall either way.
Playing against type can be fun on its own and it's good not to place barriers against that, but such a restriction would also remove some very thematic choices from the game. For instance, in PF1 a character I very nearly got the chance to play was a seemingly by-the-book Oread Geokineticist who saw their elemental origin as the manifestation of the dry lethality of the desert, the plan being that they would later discover that they had an Oasis within them that granted them the life-bringing powers of Hydrokinesis and the Phytokinesis.
Doing that in PF2 would require a bit of retraining, of course, but I like that the concept is still possible. I may even start them out as a Water/Wood Oread, and have that confusion be central to the character from the get-go.
I do like the idea of a sort of spiritual adoption element of becoming a Kineticist, so you can play into your element with both class and ancestry feats, but I'm not sure how likely that is.
Honestly, I'm surprised that we don't have the Fire healing feat already given that the Inventor got away with this beautiful Sarenite nonsense. Burning out the sickness is a big thematic element of this setting in a lot of places so it'd be cool (or, y'know, the inverse) for the Kineticist to have its own interesting take on the concept.
I feel like the line will be in different places for different people. Elemental healing I'm totally fine with; good air does wonders, after all, and some good old-fashioned mud never did anybody any harm (water is also classically the element of healing in the media touchstones I'm familiar with). But things like Veil of Mists... I've no trouble with mist-based illusionry in general; I think that and more miragey effects from Fire are a good thing, but Veil of Mists is a little too specific an illusion for that to feel right to me.
I think the Feat’s purpose is to let other classes get a very fun new toy when they take the Kineticist Multiclass :p
This is only partly a joke - I love the idea of spending two Feats on a Monk to get a flaming weapon I can summon at will, and if they implement more elemental damage types in the final class, then even better.
I was also excited about this for multiclassing, though for the Armor Inventor. If you select your Elemental Weapon as your chosen weapon for abilities like Offensive Boost, you could flavour yourself up a rad plasma-blade to work with your Inventor damage boosters. You even get bonus switch-hitting goodies, because Armor Inventors also get to have Offensive Boost benefit all of their unarmed attacks, which is a bonus that applies to your Elemental Blast if you want an arm-cannon mode for your plasma blade.
Planar Technology, heck yeah.
Of course, that all assumes that the Multiclass gets as its core ability Elemental Blast, which I reckon it will. In fact, I suspect that the basic attack that we have in the playtest will be exactly what the Multiclass Dedication gets you, except that you will only be able to Gather an Element via a limited Adapt Element (which is why the Adapt-to-Gather option is even in the playtest). It probably wouldn't be too far off the Soul Forger Dedication.
I saw some comments that make me go "wow". What's the point in reducing the Kneticist's utility to make it a Blaster-type?
If you reduce the Kneticist's versatility in manipulating the elements just so he can fireball out of his hands, why not play a spellcaster then? (There are many options available to support this style from classes, archetypes, familiars, spells, items... And many more in the upcoming rage of elements i hope).
As much as I genuinely do really like how utility-y and world-affecting the class is, I think that for many people the problem is that there's not quite enough of that versatility for the lack of power and vice versa. Blaster fans don't have enough Blast for their buck and Utility fans don't have much of a fallback option if they pick utility-based Impulses over the basic AoE Impulses. IMO this especially impacts Multi-Element blasters with their fewer feats and more options, though they at least have far more ways to use Adapt Element.
Distilling some of those comments, people seem to want:
(Pseudo-)Martial Damage Booster for Attack Blasters
AND/OR
Increased DC Scaling for DC Blasters
...in addition to the utility we currently have, which is rad but could be seen as akin to reduced spellcasting, which means that we may be due some sort of helpful somethingorother for our basic Blast attacks (like the Magus has) or Impulse cantrip-equivalents (like the Psychic has).
I'm not sure that I necessarily agree with all of that, as I've not playtested it yet, but I think it's a lot deeper than people just wanting to replace all the cool toys with Moar Blast. I do agree, however, that it would be best not to expect Full-Martial DPS if we want the utility to stay, which I certainly do.
Myself, I'd rather an emphasis on cool weapon traits and abilities on the Blast than raw damage, but those can switch in quite easily with damage increases so that may be possible to work in alongside number-go-big options.
This was my thinking too, but unfortunately Gathering an Element disperses any Element already Gathered... Which also means no dual-wielding of Elemental Weapons and not much incentive not to use a shield for blasters. This is something that I really hope that they can change.
My group and I were discussing about this topic and we came across a solution, you can have an element gathered with gather element which uses your inner gate and use the gather option from adapt element to gather another element in your free hand since it doesn't use your inner gate as it says:
Gather (any element) You Gather the Element, drawing it from the environment instead of from your inner gate.
As a master I would rule you can do this since you are using two different sources for each element. So you can have an elemental weapon in one hand and use the other hand to use ranged blast attacks.
Hm... You're still Gathering the Element as a subordinate action to Adapt Element, so all the rules of that action still apply even if it has a different source. It's a fun houserule but it doesn't work per the text unfortunately.
All this talk of Elements and Masters is making me very excited to play some sort of Automaton Kineticist...
Can folk upthread stop the name-calling and personal attacks and use of the word 'gaslighting' in a totally inappropriate context? We have the privilege of participating in the creation of fun things. Let's not ruin that for ourselves or for the designers.
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Unicore wrote:
A dual element kineticist could have air in one hand, fire in the other and be flying around and attacking 3 enemies with the fire blast (barrage blast) and then spending one action on a 4th attack with the air attack and still be flying.
This was my thinking too, but unfortunately Gathering an Element disperses any Element already Gathered... Which also means no dual-wielding of Elemental Weapons and not much incentive not to use a shield for blasters. This is something that I really hope that they can change.
Gather Element wrote:
You can have only one element gathered at a time, and Gathering an Element again causes any element you’ve already gathered to dissipate.
That said, nothing you mentioned has the Overflow trait so you can still do all of that with just Air Blasts. Flurry of gusts!
Do you need to keep air gathered to keep flying? Isn't the duration just 10 minutes? So once you are flying, I guess you can barrage blast and then cycle blast every other round?
Oh yeah that totally works, I thought you meant literally having one Element Gathered in each hand.
Can folk upthread stop the name-calling and personal attacks and use of the word 'gaslighting' in a totally inappropriate context? We have the privilege of participating in the creation of fun things. Let's not ruin that for ourselves or for the designers.
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Unicore wrote:
A dual element kineticist could have air in one hand, fire in the other and be flying around and attacking 3 enemies with the fire blast (barrage blast) and then spending one action on a 4th attack with the air attack and still be flying.
This was my thinking too, but unfortunately Gathering an Element disperses any Element already Gathered... Which also means no dual-wielding of Elemental Weapons and not much incentive not to use a shield for blasters. This is something that I really hope that they can change.
Gather Element wrote:
You can have only one element gathered at a time, and Gathering an Element again causes any element you’ve already gathered to dissipate.
That said, nothing you mentioned has the Overflow trait so you can still do all of that with just Air Blasts. Flurry of gusts!
Is your Elemental Hand Crossbow/Pistol/Air Repeater loaded already when you Gather an Element? The word "reload" is used as if it is, and this could create confusion since Cycle Elements is presumably not meant to immediately refresh a whole Capacity magazine.
This isn't so much a rules question as I think I'm pretty clear on the answer, but it might be helpful to make it obvious that you have to load your weapon as-normal, as much as that sucks for anyone who started the fight without a pre-Gathered Element.
Obviously haven't played this new Kineticist yet, but in theory this hits a lot of the notes I was hoping for.
I especially like:
All-day martial blasts with trait differentiation
Yoon's art
Elemental Weapon
Playing with the action economy and feat system
Yoon's letter
Distinct-feeling Impulse lists for each element, including different healing powers
Built-in utility
Gom-Gom
Obviously there are always going to be quibbles (I'd like blasts to see a little more emphasis myself) but these are things I am very excited to see stay! Especially Gom-Gom!
Also worth noting that the current phrasing of the ability and the kit allows you to pick a one handed weapon with the two hand trait and 2 hand it after summoning it.
Also Flexible Blast might combo with it since you can use the weapon for Blasts. If this means you do the the weapon damage with the blast action (which I think you do?) it would mean you can finesse those things. Or use STR with guns. As long as you are using the Blast action with them.
Nice catch with the two-hand trait!
Hm, I had read it as you having the option to either Blast (using Blast rules) or Strike (using Strike rules but presumably still your Handwraps so it isn't Too-Bad-To-Be-True). So the Blast would have its usual damage dice and add-on abilities, while the Strike would be using weapon dice and traits.
I love power-at-a-price but I feel like enough people utterly despise it that it shouldn't be as built-in as it is for the Oracle. I also like that there isn't much resource management in the class centred around being the outflow valve of a plane of raw unrestrained power.
It'd be nice to have something conceptually similar to Strain Mind as an opt-in feat to represent ripping the safety off and letting the power flow. Perhaps even a Class Archetype, as I notice that all the concept-defining feats have avoided Level 2 like something's supposed to slot in there.
I just think it'd be neat to add in a bit of language that the go-up-a-wall version can be steps or a ramp. Would add another option for wheelchair-using PCs as well as adding a bit of interesting utility that clever players could have fun with. Not a huge thing, but I'm sure it'd be appreciated.
(Plus, I'd be tickled pink to see a wheelchair-using geokineticist casually ruin the entrance of every inaccessible building they come across.)
I'd really rather we had an option to be pure-air or pure-water out the gate; I like that we're differentiating not through damage type alone, but through weapon traits. I also think that (versatile) physical damage makes more sense for ice blasts anyway, but I reckon that I'm in a very small minority there.
That said, elemental damage is obviously a fantasy that should be available so a choice of secondary damage types would be nice, possibly as a first-level feat (forming a nice counterpoint to weapon-trait fans who get Elemental Weapon).
Alternately, if people wanted to be pure-lightning or pure-cold from level one, a simple choice between two blasts per element could be cool, with a feat to get the other one. In addition to the obvious, Fire's other option could be a Poison-type smoke blast and Earth could get a Piercing stalagmite blast, keeping them pure-Elemental and pure-Physical respectively.
I personally quite like how they've used weapon traits to differentiate the three physical elements rather than damage type, but I'd like to see more ways to build on that. I was hoping for a cool weapon-trait based blast and this is a good part of the way there, with Elemental Weapon going most of the rest of the way depending on how happy GMs are with me reflavouring it.
That said, obviously yeeting lightning from one's fingers is a fun fantasy and something you'd expect from the Elemental Master class. Secondary damage choices would be nice to have as a first level feat so everyone who wants that fantasy can get it off the bat.
If we're doing secondary damage types, I would like some Poison options for pyrokineticists. I'd love to be able to play a shifty, smoky flame assassin who focuses on the less direct aspects of fire.
shroudb wrote:
Feats like Cycle Blast is basically "get a free attack when you Gather element" after an Overflow blast.
Cycle Blast is an Impulse feat, so you can't use it after an Overflow blast.
Do you think an Earth Kineticist would still be considered "elf magic" by the Hobgoblins in Oprak? I have to imagine that much expose to the Plane of Earth has had some interesting effects on them.
I suspect that the ever-pragmatic Azaersi would like to snap up encourage such elite operatives individuals regardless... That said, it'd probably take some explaining to other hobgoblins given that supernaturally hitting people with rocks probably looks a lot like hitting people with supernatural rocks.
Still, they seem to be okay with planar transportation? So maybe? I'm not too familiar with Ironfang Invasion so I could be way off base there.
It might be worth seeing what you and the GM can do to make the criminal underworld or martial politics (eg war) as fascinating and deep and impressive as any of the more cosmic parts of the setting. There is a magic to people, and thus there is a terrible magic to conflict, and the ability to swear your sword to this king or that and thus change the political landscape is a great power indeed. A high-level Wizard might be able to reshape parts of the world, but only a Fighter can comfortably hew through an entire army of the rank-and-file without a shred of worry, and that has serious implications for how history moves forwards.
As far as rogues are concerned... Not every rogue is a Thief, of course, but looking to stories of thieves and tricksters could be good inspiration for how slyness can counter the mightiest magic. You might not necessarily understand that magical doohickey, but you may well be Legendary in all the myriad skills used to unlock its powers, or you might have stolen it from your foes yourself.
Hm, on re-read that may have come off a little more prescriptive than I'd intended, sorry. I do now want to play a planar linguist who takes everything I just said as a personal challenge, going on a mighty quest to create or discover the true best-fit language for all conscious souls. Perfection is a good goal insofar as it gets you to "really bloody good", after all.
The idea of universal language is really compelling and finding tidbits of it in tongues as taboo as Necril would be a fun character journey too. Especially when their open-mindedness inevitably leads them to pick up a book with more apostrophes than sense and unleash some sort of linguistic elder evil...
But this is perhaps getting quite off-topic. I want to run a game with the preciousness of knowledge as a major theme quite soon so this sort of thing has been knocking around my mind. :P
Come to think of it, a crew with kineticists of Air, Water and Wood should work well.
Ah, but what of the true terror of the seas, the Booty-Bending Metal-Kineticist! No hold of gold is beyond their grasp, no treasure truly buried! Your jewellery turned against you, your cannonballs returned at speed! Your own cutlass at your throat as you walk the plank, praying for Besmara to loosen those heavy, heavy chains...
Really, though, a piratey Metal-Kineticist with sparkling wires twisted into their hair/beard who uses doubloons as ammunition sounds very cool. Definitely a lot of fodder for tall tales.
The real question is why these good gods haven't inherently been teaching their servants languages that can be understood and communicated through regardless of one's abilities or senses?
Is there any reason to suspect that they haven't? I mean, we're being very speculative about Necril and, while I do love the idea of in-world scholars making those same assumptions and pushing the narrative of Necril being especially accessible, it seems unfair not to speculate similarly about languages that don't pose risks* for anyone with a pulse.
Celestial is the obvious one. Good is Good, and it seems unfathomable to me that beings composed of cosmic kindness would find their ability to communicate unduly limited by the abilities of those they are trying to reach. There's not much use in saying "do not be afraid" if nobody in the room can hear it, and it paints the forces of Good in an extremely silly light if that's something that they haven't considered. That said, I would imagine that among the heavenly host there are numerous communicators who specialise in different mechanisms of communication, for reasons I will get to in a moment.
Utopian may be another, for various pragmatic reasons to do with the inexorable decline of the Primordial Inevitables and the realities of living in the most ancient and cosmopolitan city in the universe.
Protean ditto for the exact opposite reasons; is it fun to have to shapeshift your mouthparts into something different just to say hello to your friend who happens to be trying out a new set of senses this month?
Abyssal whispers should be able to tempt any sinner.
Infernal contracts cannot afford to do less.
And so on.
However, perhaps the reason that there hasn't been some sort of universally-accessible language from on-high might be because, well, that's not how language or accessibility work. There will always be people whose needs are excluded by a focus on the needs of others, and that's okay so long as multiple solutions are available (providing both a ramp and stairs, for example). A language spoken by all undead might not be accessible to the living, a language spoken by Angels may burn the tongues of their fallen, a signed language will present problems for those with poor vision while a tactile language will present problems for those who can't cope with touch. And so on. There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to disability, and I'm actually glad that there isn't a language for that in this setting.
Either that or it's because Ihys was in charge of language and none of the other gods can quite work it out. Thanks, Asmodeus.
----
* maybe a little real:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but many disabled people live with conditions that would make a language imbued with literal death energy seem a little less of a harmless frivolity. Even if it isn't a physical risk, fatigue and apathy are bad enough when they're not being mystically enhanced. Now, I think it'd be fascinating to explore that dynamic as someone who has myself experienced a lot of "Oh, but this could help you!", but that relies on making it clear that the people pushing for this language in-setting are irresponsible at-best.
Imagine a visiting Gebbite scholar teaching this course in Rahadoum for a semester.
Oh my gosh, Rahadoum would eat this right up. The course could very well be called "Necril: The Language of Mortality", which is true in a sense.
...It could even be an unliving long-con to encourage within the eager-to-defy Rahadoum a faux-utilitarian "the dead are tools and anyone saying different is probably working for Sarenrae" sort of philosophy that leaves them vulnerable to Geb's necromantic influence. Akin to Eberron's Blood of Vol, except in a setting where most undead actually are inherently dangerous and non-evil faiths have a really, really good reason to want to destroy them.
Of course, whether or not this would actually work is another question entirely, but it might be worth a shot for Geb to try to tip the balance of power in northern Garund. Rahadoum would probably see that angle coming a mile off and certainly wouldn't want anything to do with Urgathoan faith even if she was a god-defying mortal once upon a time, but the idea might be compelling enough to get some edgy Rahadoumi students comfortable with the language. Once you've got that demographic... Well, Undead can be very, very patient.
[Disclaimer: I think this is an incredibly rad worldbuilding idea and do not at all intend to dismiss it. I just like thinking about the social sides of language and accessibility too.]
I suspect that Necril will have a lot of ungroovy power dynamics built-in given how the undead tend to function on Golarion. It may be quite accessible in certain physical ways, but any language in which so many of the speakers are A: masters of mindlessly subservient or magically controlled minions (Necromancers) or B: harbingers of social inequality (Vampires, the intentional sort of Mummy, many others) seems likely to be linguistically limited in terms of healthy social dynamics such as accessibility.
That is to say, the language of cultures that encourage the idea that one's inferiors are tools might have difficulty being truly accessible to those who are considered inferior by those cultures. This includes the living, who form a significant minority in Geb and are supposedly quite common elsewhere, as well as rarely-sentient 'fodder' undead such as Skeletons and Zombies who likely lack means of self-affirmation within the language. "I am a Skeleton" might be an inherently self-deprecating sentence in the same way that "I am a tool" is in English, or may simply be grammatically incorrect.
That said, this sounds like a great idea for Gebbite scholars to push, whether or not it quite holds up in practice. The practical side of it would also be interesting for linguists across Golarion, who could search for ways to translate the practical benefits of Necril to more living-friendly languages. Those linguists would also probably see some significant pushback on that, and Golarion's "Tome Scott" equivalent probably has a fascinating Language Files entry on the whole affair.
Gnome Amalgam Musket has Reload 2 while the Hammer Gun is pretty much an identical weapon (shove instead of trip) with Reload 1. Gunsword also has similar power with Reload 1.
Gnomish blacksmiths got cocky after the flickmace and decided that neither man nor god could tell them too much was too much. The GAM was the result of their hubris.
(It's probably the Versatile, along with Trip being a bit more powerful than Shove. But mostly it's the hubris.)
One of the comments I made in the playtest was that Granny Weatherwax would have been a Thaumaturge (likely one with Druid dual class, but maybe not).
So...her. I'll use a Kitsune (so I can "borrow"), and start with Regalia implement, because what's a witch without her hat? Intimidate, Survival, Deception, and Medicine are all important skills.
One houserule I'm applying to the Thaum class is if you are wearing your implement, you can gain the benefit of holding your implement as long as you have a hand free. Admittedly, the live version of that rule works smoother than the playtest version, but for this particular character it is important.
Otoh, a broom might also work as a regalia implement and be within the rules. Hmm...
I had the same thought about Granny! The Thaumaturge feels like a lot of Pratchett's Witches mixed with a lot of Delaney's Spooks and that's, well, pretty much everything I want out of a class.
Interestingly, I'd stat up her chalkland protégé as a particularly sensible Oscillating Wave Psychic; it's not all boffo after all, even if most of what Tiffany does with her considerable magic is not use it. Absolutely the Thaumaturge archetype, of course, along wi' a wee army o' Sprite Barbarians (and a Bard or twa oan the mousepipes).
...I need to re-read The Wee Free Men. And the rest of Discworld. And run a game there.
If I ever get to do a Dual-Class Lastwall-focused game I'd love to play my idea for an Investigator/Psychic. Not just a mystical detective, but formerly the mystical detective, the Infinite Eye of Dread, a high-ranking specialist working closely with the authorities in Vigil. He used his precognitive powers (and, quietly, a good bit of on-the-go deduction) to root out criminals, identify flaws in security, and both predict and counter the actions of the despicable Whispering Way.
His job, in short, was to prevent catastrophe. To forestall the apocalypse. To preserve holy Lastwall and the shining jewel of Vigil for as long as his Elven lifespan would allow. The common guards could catch a few petty criminals, but his was a higher calling.
He was... quite vocal about all of that. Diviners, you know. Classically arrogant.
If you stretch reflavoring /very/ far, you could use a Thaumaturge to represent something like the old 3.5 Daelkyr Half-Bloods, from Eberron. These were essentially Aberrant planetouched, warped in the womb by exposure to power alien beings, and born with an affinity for living tools called "symbionts" that bonded to their bodies.
Make your Weapon out of sharpened bone and shiny meat - maybe a toothed tongue for a Whip? Wands make good sense as spell-shooting tentacles, in the vein of a certain non-OGL tyrannical voyeur. A protective Amulet might be an organ or little bug that squirts Resistance-granting juices into your bloodstream. The Bell could be a shrieking mouth! I love the idea of carrying around a big eyeball as a Lantern.
Ooo, you could even combine that whip with the Soulforger archetype, except instead of manifesting from another realm of existence it just schlorps out of your wrist. Of course, that then means that you're reflavouring your Soul Path as the unimaginable whims of whatever awful aberrant master put that thing in your arm, which is absolute conceptual gravy. Watch out for that Corruption!
Oh! And your Esoteric Lore could be the voice of your dark overlord whispering sweet Nothings into your ear; becoming flat-footed on a critfailed Exploit Vulnerability is just what happens when you listen a little too closely.
It all works. This is rad and I want to play this.
(Also a Tome that's just a gross pocket brain; take it out and it wraps awful spiked tendrils around your arm that burrow directly into your nervous system. Congrats, you're now an Expert in Basket Weaving Lore.)
Mirror - Honestly....I couldn't find anything on that art that was a good match. Probably the same as the lantern. Haha.
Bio-student brain is thinking the reflective, shimmering scales of some sort of sea creature. Fish scales are usually reflective for some sort of camouflage/light distortion reason, which fits the implement well. I'm sure there's a more mystical variant of that somewhere in the bestiary; 2e especially has impressed me with zoology-inspired monster abilities.
EDIT: Oh, right, "on that art", whoops. The tentacle looks pretty shiny, and Aberrant stuff tends to lend itself well to illusionry...
