Urgothoa

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994 posts (5,023 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 11 aliases.


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Female Niemoidian Noble 2/ Jedi 1

"Very well Warrick. Where do we go to find our way to Darga?" replies Galatea in a friendly voice, while slowly and enticingly withdrawing currency from her purse, suggesting a strip tease for misers.


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I have given this question deep thought over a lengthy period and come up with the following solution.

1 Kill someone.
2 Run off with the corpse.

I hope this helps.


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It is a cool idea.

As to how to do it game mechanically, well I don't think there is a clear answer. You can't get all that close to being a phoenix whatever you do. Eldritch heritage won't give you much "phoenix stuff" until you are very high level, so I likely would not do that.

What I suggest you do is have a look at the Phoenix as a creature and the phoenix bloodline for sorcerers and bloodragers. That is basically your 2 options. Then let your imagination go wild as to how the phoenix/ humanoid will look and work when translated into a Pathfinder character.

Bloodrager or Magus is a melee idea, sorcerer or arcanist a full arcane caster.

Then think about which of your class ideas strikes you as coolest, most phoenix like and, importantly, you most want to play.

Last idea, as a race Samsaran or Ifrit might work.


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This is actually rather a thorny question.

As far as I can tell class feature isn't defined but each class has a sentence like-

"Class Features
The following are class features of the fighter."

or "Class Features
The following are the class features of the shaman."

And the class features are the headings and descriptions that follow. One of those for the shaman is "Hex" and another is "Wandering Spirit".
Witches also get a Hex class feature expressed the same way. Spirit guides are given shaman’s wandering spirit class feature. Which results in them having a hex, but they don't get the Hex class feature as such.

So I think the answer by the RAW is no. I could be wrong. Many GMs might disagree or house rule it otherwise.


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Witch is the class I know most about, so I have a few ideas.

1 Race- have a look at a bloodmarked skinwalker if allowed by the GM and the racial feat bat shape. With this you can transform into a bat from level 1. Bats can fly, its not obvious you are anything but a bat and you can use hexes in that form.

2 Archetype. Consider Ashtifah. Vanishing step at level 2 is the best thing ever. If you have both Vanishing step and bat shape you are much better equipped to avoid damage and survive.

The winter witch archetype and later prestige class makes a powerful cold specialised blaster. If that idea appeals...

3 Hexes: you have "Flight, Cackle, Evil Eye, Slumber, Water Lung, Prehensile Hair (love that the hair gives me 10 foot reach for touch attacks)"

On the last I personally don't like touch attacks. Your BaB is crap and you are squishy. Doing it at 10' is better, still would not be my choice.

I like to take the hexes slumber, cackle, fortune and misfortune asap. The last two are massive buffs and debuffs.

4 Patron: Deception

Fine choice. But have a look at the unique patrons that give you a hex in exchange for some inconvenience. An extra hex, if a good once, is a lot.

5 Feats Good choices imho. Try to find room for improved initiative.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

Boudacia moves forward, remaining in the doorway into the room from the hallway she is in, ready to provide spell of hex support to Uriel should he be attacked.

I moved your Ikon Uriel, I presume you are posting from a mobile phone so can't move it yourself.
Hey Uriel- You wanted to play the guy as thick as two bricks. :P Given the way you dumped his int you should though.
Boudacia is too polite to say anything. Or maybe he is just too pretty to insult.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

"He is at that."


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

Boudacia hits Klarkosh with her second Glitterdust.

It is a 10' radius and easy just to hit Klarkosh. Will save DC 18 to negate the blindness effect.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

Boudaica casts Dispel Magic, targeting the Stinking Cloud.

Dispel Magic, CL check: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (1) + 6 = 7

If that does nothing, which I am pretty sure is the case, Boudacia then moves 10' backwards, through the secret door, leaving it open so that she can see Klarkosh.

If by some miracle I dispelled the Stinking Cloud I won't move.

It was a good idea. Honest. Pity about the die roll.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.
Stormstrider wrote:
I want to give a great big, THANK YOU!

A big thank you. You are a man after my own heart.

And I am glad you are enjoying things.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

"I will see what calling on the deity will do Uriel, and it is "your holiness" if you please." replies Boudacia, who fails to keep a straight face while making these preposterous statements, before turning thoughtful and adding "And you are right, closing the portal bringing in water would do that, I think. Or we could try to close the portal that is allowing in monsters. Unless we get very lucky, or the divine aid really comes through, we are only going to close one portal at best. So which one?"

It is Uriel not his player who is a bit dopey it seems. Can anyone use Bit of luck? Fortune Hex will not help, as I won't be rolling an "ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check" sadly. :( Could we get a bonus from any other source. Sacrificing something, maybe metal, or someone to the Troglodyte god perhaps?


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.
Raziel Drakan wrote:
Slumber Hex is perhaps the main reason I never actually played a Witch - having that power and not using it is simply strange. You will always be tempted to use it at every possible instance. I fear being transformed into a one trick pony...

I can see Raziel's point but don't agree.

There are lots of things you can't put to sleep and lots of things will be out of range. One reason Slumber is more effective here is we are almost always inside, so the short range is less often a restriction. And Slumber was less effective in Mended Wall's campaign where Stormstrider and I met, as there were lots of undead who make Slumber a waste of time.

I started a thread on this site about how Witches were under rated and at low levels were the most powerful full arcane caster. And at the levels most campaigns actually reach, and you can normally get to in the Pathfinder Society, are at least a good power option.

The reason is that many hexes work the same way Slumber does, once/day per enemy. This gives Witches much more stamina than other arcane casters and means they can preserve their spells for things you can't hex.

In the abstract I agree with Lonam and Raziel. And it is worth noting that Slumber Hex has been around since 2010 and Paizo have not changed or restricted the Hex, when they have changed many other things for balance reasons. And being the best all round Hex, if you nerf Slumber you nerf the Witch class.

However, the effectiveness of me putting lots of enemies to sleep is something that has been making our GM Stormstrider miserable for some a long time. It is his campaign and if he wants to introduce a house rule I am fine with it.

And reducing the duration from, presently, 5 rounds to 3 does not render it useless. It just means we need to be more organised at coup de gracing sleeping enemies.

On which subject, I made an intemperate post on 5/7 about not finishing off sleeping enemies. The point true enough, they should very rarely be allowed to wake up, but the post was kind of excessive and rude and I apologize. Sorry if I offended anyone.

And thanks to Uriel who did a fine job acting as peace maker.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

On what to do now- I suggest we all move into E5 and search it thoroughly.
On scouting- I don't want to lobby for the role but Boudacia's ability to turn into a bat makes her appear to be, well, a bat with 40' flight and therefore a good scout. Wayne does want to scout as it gives him opportunities to gain the knowledge needed to become a vigilante who dresses as a human being to combat crime among bats.
On posting- I too have lots of opportunities to post. I try to be patient, not always successfully but I keep my impatience off the site as it isn't fair to others.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

"That is really telling them, Aldhranhald. But what are you telling them? It sounded really awesome though, like an aquarium rioting."


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Repulsive.


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Getting more disposable combatants on the battlefield, by animating dead or summon something is just an excellent strategy.

avr wrote:
^And a wizard heading for eldritch knight has different priorities to a bog-standard wizard, who has different priorities to an arcane trickster, and a shaman using arcane enlightenment has different priorities to all those despite all using/stealing from the same wizard list. There are some serious differences being swept under the carpet in creating these lists. Don't take differences for some specialist or archetype too seriously.

avr- This is not the first time I have read a post from you displaying a good understanding of the game.

I have played witches a lot and I keep trying to tell people that witches should select their spells to fill out what their hexes cannot do. I am not sure too many people are taking notice.

Typically hexes can take out individuals and buff allies, both one at a time. The same spell may be better or worse for a witch than another form of arcane caste, eg spells that take out one individual are worse for witches and I memorise few of them.

What will affect which spell a particular witch may find best includes-

1 which hexes they have
2 the witch archetype, if any
3 the composition and strengths of the rest of the party
4 magic items available
5 the campaign.

But really, most classes casting spells are affected by the same things, except 1.

So there is no one size fits all answer.

Equally there is no doubt some spells are better than others, and many spells are either just lacking or too situational to be memorised except rarely.


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Magda- You are admirably considerate of GMs and other players.

When I come up with a powerful build idea I just want to use it. Then realise what I have done later and grow repentant.


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If Paizo had made the brilliant and visionary decision to put me in charge of revising PF 1st ed, one thing I would address is Prestige Classes [PrC].

I believe the game developers of PF wanted simple character creation to be a good choice, ie to start with a base class and follow it to level 20. And I think that is a perfectly sensible idea.

But in my opinion the Paizo design team take it to excess. If you care about the power of your character you will avoid prestige classes like the plague. You may as well take 98% of the prestige classes printed and use the paper as kindling for fires to warm the playing area. What is the point of printing them in the first place? And it is wrong to call Prestige Classes that, Trap Class, Stigma Class or Useless Garbage is a more correct description.

Some prestige classes hark back to earlier editions of D&D. Mystic Theurge was a prestige class in 3.5 but is also very like a Magic User / Cleric from Advanced Dungeons and Dragons which was around back in 1979 when I started playing. Likewise a Arcane Trickster is a Magic User / Thief and an Eldritch Knight is very like a Fighter / Magic User.

There are a fair number of players who want to revisit their favourite types of characters from earlier years. For a time the Mystic Theurge was rendered quite playable by a FAQ whereby you could use racial SLAs to qualify for the class. This was later reversed and caused some serious resentment by players who wanted to play a Mystic Theurge. I am sure that most of all of these people want to revisit their favoured character types from earlier D & D.

In summary I would trim out most of the existing PrCs and print a smaller number which I would make decent from a power perspective.
And I would include in the new improved PrCs classes like Mystic Theurge and Arcane Trickster that some players especially want to play.
These people are paying money to play PF and I can see no reason the game can't be re-designed slightly to allow them what they want.


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You sound like you are kind of young. I have been playing and GMing since 1979, so I am ancient and "more experienced". :)

My suggestions-

1 Start fairly simple, Core Ruelebook classes only say. Trying to take all the rules in at once is near impossible.

2 Be careful about strength of enemies. It is much better to have an easy win than to have everyone die.

3 Don't have a character yourself. It seems harmless and a way to sort of play yourself, but it is surprisingly bad for the game in my experience.

4 Try running a path. You have to learn to GM and help others with the rules. That is enough w/o trying to come up with original stuff as well.

5 Skull and Shackles has a reputation for being rather easy. 3 of us all experienced players played it and it was fun but we were rarely challenged. Might be a good choice for the younger group.

6 Be patient and it is OK to cheat a bit to get players out of trouble. Nobody likes having their PC die.


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Here is a contribution from a nerd who is interested in extinct life. It is actually a genus of real creatures.

Rhamphorhynchus ("beak snout") is a genus of long-tailed pterosaurs in the Jurassic period.

So it is a pterosaur, which in pathfinder means it is a dinosaur, though this is not correct in the real world. It isn't related to the dinosaurs which evolved into birds and is definitely not an avian.

Pterosaurs moved most awkwardly on the ground. The fact long tailed pterosaurs were more awkward on the ground than the short tailed pterosaurs is thought to be the reason the former were eventually replaced by the latter.

Rhamphorhynchus lived near the sea and many think it swam as well.

I don't know where all this leaves the pathfinder RAW, but I would say it qualified as a biped on the ground. It's movement was slow and awkward on the ground, which does not point to being able to carry much. And they had hollow bones to keep weight down for flight, which means the bones might be unable to take heavy weights too.


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Dungeons bursting at the seems with monsters and treasure are not the most realistic of scenarios.

But I agree with you. If the creatures are more spread out and the PCs are stealthy it makes more sense, a bit anyway.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

"That sounds like a fine idea Aldhranhald. Perhaps we can find something to garnish them with and some condiments. Currying favor, and indeed currying flavor, with hungry creatures may avoid pointless conflict." replies Boudacia amiably.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

No worries mate.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

I hope not Mended. That would be udderly ridiculous.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.
The All-Seeing Eye. wrote:
As BG enters the room (How far in?), talking to the others he suddenly hears ... ? what sounds like several incoherent voices? speaking all at once? And from under the bunk in the southernmost cell he sees ... a horrifying sight. A horrid mass of eyes, mouths, and formless flesh, its countless maws yammering ceaselessly.

That sounds awfully like my tabletop roleplaying group when they get excited.


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Female Civilised Yar-Ammonite Witch (Bouda) 4 | HP 30/38 (1d6(=6, 4, 4,4=14)+4 FC + 8 Con ) | Defence AC 12 (Touch 12 Flat Footed 10) [/ooc] | CMB: +1, CMD: 13/11 |FL [| Init: +4 | Perc: +9, SM: +7 ooc] F: +3, R: +3, W: +5[/ooc] | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:17, Bouda Eye DC 17, Healing, Cackle, Fortune, Misfortune DC 17 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5, 2nd 3 | Active conditions: None.

Having considered all aspects of the situation carefully and given due weight to the fact this is Pathfinder, I conclude we should kill them all and let their respective deities sort them out.


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Female Civilised Yar-Ammonite Witch (Bouda) 4 | HP 30/38 (1d6(=6, 4, 4,4=14)+4 FC + 8 Con ) | Defence AC 12 (Touch 12 Flat Footed 10) [/ooc] | CMB: +1, CMD: 13/11 |FL [| Init: +4 | Perc: +9, SM: +7 ooc] F: +3, R: +3, W: +5[/ooc] | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:17, Bouda Eye DC 17, Healing, Cackle, Fortune, Misfortune DC 17 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5, 2nd 3 | Active conditions: None.

Dain- a lot of this has happened behind spoilers I have been good enough not to look at. These two nutc... I mean brave warriors have gone and attacked the Azimbians in the middle of the night. I suspect we are all asleep and may have to make a perception roll to be awakened by the noise. And the DC? Is this right, or can we just act.


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Female Civilised Yar-Ammonite Witch (Bouda) 4 | HP 30/38 (1d6(=6, 4, 4,4=14)+4 FC + 8 Con ) | Defence AC 12 (Touch 12 Flat Footed 10) [/ooc] | CMB: +1, CMD: 13/11 |FL [| Init: +4 | Perc: +9, SM: +7 ooc] F: +3, R: +3, W: +5[/ooc] | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:17, Bouda Eye DC 17, Healing, Cackle, Fortune, Misfortune DC 17 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5, 2nd 3 | Active conditions: None.
Dain GM wrote:
So here are some issues I’m having with this (and please bear in mind I don’t play Witches, I’ve only played with one PC who played Witches, and I’m not totally familiar with the rules of Witches which is why I’m looking for some clarification;

Please go to http://zenithgames.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-comprehensive-pathfinder-guides .html. Then go down the guides on Witches. There are 5 guides there of which I have read 3, and those 3 all tell you how cackle works. They all say the same thing, which is how I have been using the Hex, and there is nothing in any of them to suggest there is any doubt as to the way the rules about cackling work.

I suggest you go to the guide A Witch's Guide to Shutting Down Enemies and read the section that starts on p7, titled "The First Few Rounds of Combat". It sets out how cackle works and how it should be used.

I looked up FAQ and there is nothing on Cackle at all.

Dain GM wrote:
2. You have an ability called Cackle – if you used it on someone who has the Fortune Hex, the ruling says specifically – has the duration of that Hex extended by 1 Round. However, it doesn’t say (though I suppose some could imply) – if you continue to Cackle in round 2 you can extend it for an additional round so that the Hex Power lasts until you stop Cackling.

The rules on stabbing someone with a dagger say they take 1d4 damage. Everyone knows if you stab them a second time they take 1d4 damage a second time. The cases are the same.

Dain GM wrote:

3. So at this time it looks like the rules say that you can use a Fortune Hex (which is a Standard Action) to Buff someone for 1 Round and at the same time you use Cackle (a Move Action) to increase the buff by 1 Round for a total of 2 Rounds and thus you’d have done that for a total of a Full Move Action and that creature would have the buff for 2 Rounds.

On Round 2 you could use a new Hex on another creature – that creature would gain the Fortune Bonus for 1 Round (your Standard Action) and you Cackle (via the Second Creature) would extend that creature’s bonus by one Round and that creature would have the buff for 2 Rounds (or rounds 2 and 3).

Correct. Technically in the 1st para "Full Move Action", which I think is a typo and should say "Full Round Action", isn't right. It takes a standard action, Fortune Hex, and a move action, Cackle Hex. That would leave me with a free action. This would be pedantry if we were not talking about interpreting rules, when getting such things right is very important.

Dain GM wrote:

This leads to the next point –

She Who Knows wrote:
At level 8 it lasts for 2 rounds and at level 16 3 rounds.

So if you were Level 8 and you used Fortune’s Hex on Bjeorn on Round 1 it says the Hex lasts for 2 Rounds instead of 1. If you used the Cackle on Bjeorn as part of your Full Round Action that would mean he would gain the bonus for a total of 3 Rounds – because the bonus is extended by 1 Round.

This point seems fairly telling against your argument and how you’re using Cackle.

In other words; if you could simply keep Cackling every turn as a Move Action then there would be no reason for Fortune’s Hex to be extended to 2 Rounds; you wouldn’t need it to be extended to 2 Rounds – or at all – you merely need to keep Cackling.

The last paragraph is quite right about how it works.

I don't think it is an argument against how I say Cackle works. It improves the Fortune Hex so it works for 2 rounds, 3 at level 16.

That just means at level 8 if you use the Fortune Hex and don't have time to cackle or the person with the benefit of fortune is more than 30 feet away. Either of which can easily happen.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Just read some very sensible comments by Patenemheb I would endorse.

On game balance, compare the witch spell list to the wizard /sorcerer. The witch has far fewer spells and many powerful spells are missing.

What balances this? Hexes. A witch gets Hexes and their comparatively weak, limited spell list and this makes them, very roughly, as good as a Wizard with their much better spells and their other class features witches don't get.

Dain, what I would urge you to do is check the guide I referred you to, or enough of them to satisfy yourself they all say the same thing on how cackle works. Then run it that way for a while so you can see how it works out in practice. Then if after that you see a balance problem you can implement a house rule restricting cackling.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

I love it how even in Pathfinder you have misleading product names and you have to read the fine print to find that out.


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Female Civilised Yar-Ammonite Witch (Bouda) 4 | HP 30/38 (1d6(=6, 4, 4,4=14)+4 FC + 8 Con ) | Defence AC 12 (Touch 12 Flat Footed 10) [/ooc] | CMB: +1, CMD: 13/11 |FL [| Init: +4 | Perc: +9, SM: +7 ooc] F: +3, R: +3, W: +5[/ooc] | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:17, Bouda Eye DC 17, Healing, Cackle, Fortune, Misfortune DC 17 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5, 2nd 3 | Active conditions: None.
Dain GM wrote:
She Who Knows wrote:

Red unleashes an Ear Piercing Scream and then continues to chant, exclaiming "Cluas Peataí Grá"

[dice=damage]1d6

That is the spell Ear Piercing Scream, standard action and the Cackle Hex, move action.
"You unleash a powerful scream, inaudible to all but a single target. The target is dazed for 1 round and takes 1d6 points of sonic damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d6). A successful save negates the daze effect and halves the damage."

Unless there's a specific clause which lets you interrupt your Cackle with other spells, I'm going to have to deny your spell OR the cumulative bonus via the Cackle ends.

The duration of the Cackle isn't the issue - the issue is that you cannot stop cackling to utilize a spell - cast the spell - then continue to cackle after the spell. In short; the cumulative bonus for Cackling non-stop is negated if you can also cast spells or call out to people. For example - it is a Free Action to talk - you cannot interrupt the Cackle to give advice via Talking/Free Action and you cannot interrupt the Cackle to cast a spell.

I don't think this is the way it is supposed to work.

Rules quotes-

Cackle (Su)
Effect: A witch can cackle madly as a move action. Any creature that is within 30 feet that is under the effects of an agony hex, charm hex, evil eye hex, fortune hex, or misfortune hex caused by the witch has the duration of that hex extended by 1 round.

Fortune (Su)
Effect: The witch can grant a creature within 30 feet a bit of good luck for 1 round. The target can call upon this good luck once per round, allowing him to reroll any ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, taking the better result. He must decide to use this ability before the first roll is made. At 8th level and 16th level, the duration of this hex is extended by 1 round. Once a creature has benefited from the fortune hex, it cannot benefit from it again for 24 hours.

Charm (Su)
Effect: A witch can charm an animal or humanoid creature within 30 feet by beckoning and speaking soothing words.

This improves the attitude of an animal or humanoid creature by 1 step, as if the witch had successfully used the Diplomacy skill. The effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Witch’s Intelligence modifier. A Will save negates this effect. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this hex again for 1 day. At 8th level, this effect improves the attitude of the target creature by 2 steps. This is a mind-affecting charm effect.

OK, why do I disagree with Dain?
Cackle is just said to be a move action.
It's effect is to extend the duration of certain hexes created by the witch within 30' by one round.
At level 3 if Red wants to keep Fortune Hexes going, she has to cackle each round because fortune only lasts one round. But that is not always so.
At level 8 it lasts for 2 rounds and at level 16 3 rounds.
There is nothing in the rules to say Red at lvl 16 could not use fortune and cackle in round 1, the fortune hex would now last to round 4, not cackle in rounds 2 and 3 and then start cackling again in round 4, extending the fortune hex to round 5.
Likewise if I took the charm hex it would last 9 rounds and could be extended by cackling.

So the specific clause you are looking for is Cackle is just said to be a move action.
If Cackle was a move action that mean't you had to use your voice for cackling only for as long as you want to continue Cackling that would be different to all the other move actions in the game and I would think the rules would say so explicitly.

Anyway Dain, that is my reasons for thinking that your ruling quoted isn't correct. If I haven't persuaded you I will accept that.


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Female Civilised Yar-Ammonite Witch (Bouda) 4 | HP 30/38 (1d6(=6, 4, 4,4=14)+4 FC + 8 Con ) | Defence AC 12 (Touch 12 Flat Footed 10) [/ooc] | CMB: +1, CMD: 13/11 |FL [| Init: +4 | Perc: +9, SM: +7 ooc] F: +3, R: +3, W: +5[/ooc] | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:17, Bouda Eye DC 17, Healing, Cackle, Fortune, Misfortune DC 17 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5, 2nd 3 | Active conditions: None.

Red employs the Fortune Hex on Samir, exclaiming "Hon Atek! Does anyone know what this thing is? Aside from hostile, I figured that out."Red then proceeds to chant in some language not meant for human vocal apparatus, using the Cackle Hex to extend the duration of Fortune.

Fortune (Su)
Effect: The witch can grant a creature within 30 feet a bit of good luck for 1 round. The target can call upon this good luck once per round, allowing him to reroll any ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, taking the better result. He must decide to use this ability before the first roll is made. At 8th level and 16th level, the duration of this hex is extended by 1 round. Once a creature has benefited from the fortune hex, it cannot benefit from it again for 24 hours.

Due to Cackle the Fortune Hex is in effect on both Bjoern and Samir and will be so long as I continue to Cackle. Eventually I can get all our combatants a re-roll once a round, as massive benefit and really what Witches are great at. However, this is nugatory if people do not make use of it, like Bjoern last round. BJOERN USE YOUR RE-ROLL!


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Female Half Elf Master Summoner 9 HP 65 Max 90 (9d8 + 18) Defence AC23 Touch 16 Flat Footed 18 Fort +7, Ref +10, Will +9 (+11 vs. charm and compulsion); +2 vs. enchantments Immune sleep Summoner Spells Lvl 1 7/7Lvl 2 56/6 Lvl 3 5/5 Summoning Master SLA 13/13

I did speak to mum. She is home, glad to be out of hospital and re-united with her cat. She still has an infection but it seems on the mend.


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Female Half Elf Master Summoner 9 HP 65 Max 90 (9d8 + 18) Defence AC23 Touch 16 Flat Footed 18 Fort +7, Ref +10, Will +9 (+11 vs. charm and compulsion); +2 vs. enchantments Immune sleep Summoner Spells Lvl 1 7/7Lvl 2 56/6 Lvl 3 5/5 Summoning Master SLA 13/13

It is early afternoon here. I heard about 20 hours ago she was to be discharged today.

It was an infection near her eye. It looked bad and hurt, but hadn't affected the eye, her vision or spread through her system. It was improving with intravenous antibiotics. She is due to be discharged today.

Unless something went very wrong overnight she should be home very soon. I took her some things, visited and looked after her hungry and lonely cat. Even did her dishes and cleaned up a bit. :)

I should know very soon if she is in fact home. Almost certainly things are good now.


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My love of KMFDM dates to about the same time. Though it is now 40 years since I was in high school, when there were no CDs and no KMFDM. So you are not getting that old sonny. :)

KMFDM have some... interesting fans. Sascha Grey, former porn superstar was one, and the Sascha is after Sascha Konzieto. The pair of shooters at Columbine liked KMFDM and Rammstein, and the right wing loony who shot all those people on an island in Norway left a message on the internet, he expected to die though he in fact didn't. And the music in the background was "Stray Bullet".

Since character creation is not at all rushed I can run it past Michael. A friend from my tabletop roleplaying group who knows 5th ed way better than I.


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Female Civilised Yar-Ammonite Witch (Bouda) 4 | HP 30/38 (1d6(=6, 4, 4,4=14)+4 FC + 8 Con ) | Defence AC 12 (Touch 12 Flat Footed 10) [/ooc] | CMB: +1, CMD: 13/11 |FL [| Init: +4 | Perc: +9, SM: +7 ooc] F: +3, R: +3, W: +5[/ooc] | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:17, Bouda Eye DC 17, Healing, Cackle, Fortune, Misfortune DC 17 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5, 2nd 3 | Active conditions: None.

I think putting the NPCs and the wagon in the middle, perhaps after Tairin, would be sensible.

DainRed now has the Cackle hex. Normally, the witch cackles maniacally. I want to have Red speak in an ancient language that sounds like it was not meant to be spoken by human beings. As in the revelations Red recieved in the desert from the Red Sphinx. It changes nothing about the effect of Cackle, I just want to make another sound. It suits my character and history much better. That OK?


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Female Civilised Yar-Ammonite Witch (Bouda) 4 | HP 30/38 (1d6(=6, 4, 4,4=14)+4 FC + 8 Con ) | Defence AC 12 (Touch 12 Flat Footed 10) [/ooc] | CMB: +1, CMD: 13/11 |FL [| Init: +4 | Perc: +9, SM: +7 ooc] F: +3, R: +3, W: +5[/ooc] | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:17, Bouda Eye DC 17, Healing, Cackle, Fortune, Misfortune DC 17 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5, 2nd 3 | Active conditions: None.
Lysander Verniamin wrote:
Also: I work nights and I'm getting over a fever so posting might be at weird times, and maybe affected by Nyquil induced hallucinations.

I had a remarkable conversation in Bangkok train station with a gentleman who seemed to want grow up to be Hunter S Thompson who told me he had once had malaria on which anti-malarials had no effect and he cured himself by taking lots of magic mushrooms. When his trip ended the disease was gone, he said-

"Magic mushrooms cure malaria man. They take you to a higher plan where germs can't live."

"I am an Indian saint. A Bodhisattva. When I die my body will be pure light."

I am skeptical about his claims, but if you are less so you could try it.

In any event welcome to the campaign.


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Season's greetings all! :)


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

Boudacia employs the Slumber Hex on the second, newly appeared gigantic spider, saying "Monstrous unnatural vermin, I forbid you to harm my companions and employ my arcane power to enforce my forbidding."

To those who do not speak Mexican Short Tailed Bat, this sounds more like "Squeak squeak squeak, squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak! ".

A Will save [DC 16] to avoid 2 rounds of magical slumber.


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This looks decidedly interesting. I like the idea a lot. Except dying to a bearded devil before starting. :(


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whosawhatsis wrote:
Zanbabe wrote:
I've decided on a Daredevil / Flame Dancer Bard. I'm thinking high wire act, and maybe other death-defying stuff. Unfortunately, the resist fire ability doesn't kick in till 6th level, so no walking over hot coals until then. :)
I'll allow Asbestos Cloth armor, but I'll say that it only provides half the fire resistance (round down to 2) if it isn't masterwork quality.

Surely the likelihood of contracting Mesothelioma is sufficient drawback to asbestos cloth.


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Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.

Keep forgetting G... who?


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Female Half Elf Master Summoner 9 HP 65 Max 90 (9d8 + 18) Defence AC23 Touch 16 Flat Footed 18 Fort +7, Ref +10, Will +9 (+11 vs. charm and compulsion); +2 vs. enchantments Immune sleep Summoner Spells Lvl 1 7/7Lvl 2 56/6 Lvl 3 5/5 Summoning Master SLA 13/13

What sort of temperature is it?

Unless it is warm I would say light a fire.

If monsters find us we will kill them and take their treasure. :P


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

What do you do for a living BG?

My guess is you work in a shop or something, pretending to be something cute.

Either that or you work in a bordello, pretending to be something cute.


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Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.

My immediate reaction to Kerrdremak's last persuasive little speech is lets kill the lot of the slimy f**kers right now.

And in the light of cooler reflection I still think this course has much to recommend it.


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Female Werebat-kin Skinwalker (Bloodmarked) CN Witch 6 | HP 43/43 (6d6+18+6FC) | Defence AC 17 (Touch 13 Flat Footed 14) [/ooc] | CMB: 2, CMD: 15/11 |FL F: +3, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +5 | Perc: +4/+6, SM: +0/+2 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:19, Misfortune DC 19, | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 5 2nd 4 3rd 2| Active conditions: None.

"Seems logical. Wayne and I can scout, bats should attract little attention. Be back soon." So saying Boudacia transforms into a bat and she and Wayne fly downstairs. If the way is still clear they will fly to near the door where we believe the zombies were, listen and then return.

Perception, Boudacia: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (2) + 6 = 8

Perception, Wayne: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (10) + 6 = 16

This kind of experience will suit Wayne very well. His agenda is to learn as much about humans and detective work as he can so he can combat crime dressed up as a human being.


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Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.

Yep! We all think that they want us to go take out all their enemies for them and kill off all the creatures threatening their tribe while they sit and wait. Then, if we survive, they will be at full health and resources and we will be.. at much less. If they want to betray us they can probably kill us off w/o much trouble. A rather overcrowded combat is preferable to gullible idiocy.


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Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.

You guys do realise we are not dealing with normal Kobolds don't you.

This is the Truescale tribe. And if you look at the size of their images on the screen, the ones that are true to scale, the Kobolds are around 5 inches tall.

I would think this means they will be stealthier than most Kobolds, but much weaker physically.


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Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.

OK, caught up with stuff.

On the current situation I have a few observations.

1 I share the view that Kerrdremak is not fully trustworthy. He wants us to kill off the existing leadership of the tribe. Probably so he can take over. And rid the Kobolds of various problems, Forge Spurned, Hellhound, Gargoyle and Dire Bat. We go and take care of all of his problems and take all the risks.

Chillel did say IC that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. She did not say you should trust them at all.

2 The Gargoyle and Dire Bat seem to be in a place we don't have to go through in order to complete our rescue. Unfortunately Lone Dead Dwarf and Cub are not. I suggest we leave the Gargoyle and Dire Bat at least for now.

3 Chillel can put the Hellhound, Gargoyle and Dire Bat to sleep for 3 rounds if they fail a save. Hopefully that means they won't get up. Won't work on undead. I have ray of frost and other spells that will.

4 As Illiam says I can already put things to sleep. The 2 other casters can fight over the wand.

5 Something that has not been noted is this is the Truescale Tribe. If you look at the size of the images of Gurtlekrep and Kerrdremak, which are true to scale, they are about 6 inches tall. This means they will be much harder to detect but likely have far fewer HPs than normal sized kobolds.

6 I am pretty sure we untied Gurtlekrep.


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Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.

Illiam can still try to pick the lock. He will just have to lock it first. Perhaps we could securely spike it shut, then break it down.

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