Joynt Jezebel's page

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Faolán Maiali the Azure Abjurer wrote:

I know for a fact I want this Oracle to have the Time mystery, and I'm giving them the Dual-Cursed Oracle archetype, with Haunted for their advancing curse, and Tongues for their second curse. Their alignment is going to be NG.

Feat-wise, I'm not sure what to go for here, other than taking Extra Revelation twice so I can get all the revelations I want.

Well, in selecting the time mystery you have one of the best.

And dual-Cursed Oracle gives you this beauty-

"Misfortune (Ex): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. Once a creature has suffered from your misfortune, it cannot be the target of this revelation again for 1 day."

Fortune isn't bad either.

Feats- there is always improved initiative.

Also, I don't agree Divine spells are too weak for a character built around casting. And you have a bunch of powerful revelations in addition to spells.

Excellent, that I can certainly do.

I am in Australia so playing real time over the net can create time zone issues.

What would you like for a character submission, a normal Camarilla starting vampire?

Most interested. But what kind of game is it, play by post or played over the net in real time?

Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 4, 3) = 15 -3=12
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 5, 4) = 15 -2=13
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 2, 6) = 18 -2=16
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 5, 5) = 15 -1=14
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 4, 2) = 11 -1=10
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 5, 4) = 14 -2=12

Which is quite OK.

This will become a force sensitive [unknown to the character] Sluusi soldier and tech specialist.

Will be back with a design soon.

Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 2, 1) = 7 -1=6
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 2, 5) = 13 -2=11
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 6, 3) = 19 -3=16
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 5, 4) = 15 -2=13
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 2, 5) = 14 -2=12
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 3, 2) = 11 -2=9

total modifiers are +1, so roll again.

OK, roll then dice-

Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 5, 2) = 13 -2=11
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 3, 3) = 8 -1=7
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 2, 6) = 15 -1=14
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 6, 3) = 19 -3=16
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 1, 5, 1) = 9 -1=8
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 5, 1) = 12 -1=11

total modifiers are +3, so roll again.

What I meant was where was it to be set, type of characters wanted and the like.

If it is to be Dawn of Defiance then that answers the question. I would love to play. :)

And Joynt Jezebel makes three.

Totally love the SW Saga system and I know it well and have all the books. Star Wars makes for roleplaying that is fun and nearly everyone can relate to.

What sort of campaign did you have in mind?

I would love to play Exalted. I have played and GMed the game tabletop and am all for trying it online.

The setting is so very, very good.

@ZotpoxLike Minigiant I often play witches and I thought I knew most of the tricks. Evidently not. Stone Familiar is an excellent idea in that it reduces the effect of a witches nightmare, their familiar biting the big one.

@ MinigiantLesser metamagic rods are often some of the best value magic items. I can't suggest which rod as I don't know what spells you use or have.

When you get to craft, a belt of physical might, dex and con, is within your budget. Not dying is good.

You are right about the CMB of course. And the witch can't wear armour either if they want to cast any spells. These are very serious negatives.

But the Bride of Hell can make AoO attacks over a wide area and attack at range and if it does grapple something it gets really horrid. And at level 20 it is a prepared arcane caster with level 9 spells. It certainly has it's power once it cranks up. Of course your GM has to allow some things for you to do it.

avr wrote:
Last a lot of people have tried to turn the white haired witch into an effective grappler. Multiclassing is involved and I'm not sure success was achieved.

There is a build called "The Bride Of Hell" that can be found at Zenith Games- Guide to the Builds. I tried to give a link but it would not work.

I tried it some years back. It takes a fair while until it gets fully effective,but is really powerful once there.

The build is way out of date and you need a GM prepared to allow some things that are questionable.

Artofregicide wrote:

Eat them.

Extra provisions and you still get skeletons for the necromancer to use.

I'm totally chaotic neutral! Whee!

No, you are chaotic evil whether you know it or not.

We are playing "Way of the Wicked" and had a large group of prisoners, including one of the Barons of the realm, the highest rank outside the royal family.

My character used psychic reconstruction to max out her Profession, chef skill and knowledge of bugbear dietary preferences.

She then cooked the prisoners alive while the bugbear army watched and fed the prisoners to the bugbears.

I quite agree on all points VoodooistMonk. I just started trying to figure out the right answer logically. And got rather carried away,not for the first time.

I do want to play a necromancer someday. But have never managed to even start, much less design a character to level 20. Ryze Kuja's does seem good.

If there is one thread that should be dug from the grave it is this one.

The thread quoted by Crobat has a link to another thread that concerns casting animate dead from a wand, which reaches a conclusion of-

"When you're using a wand, you use the wand's caster level. The control limit is written in the spell, and the spell is Instant. Ergo, it's checked at the time of casting. So at the time of casting, any undead you control in excess of 4*CL become free-willed. While casting off of a wand, your effective caster level is that of the wand.

So if you've got a caster level of 15, you can control 60 HD of undead from the spell Animate Dead. If you pick up a wand of Animate Dead at caster level 5, and use it to animate a human skeleton, then at that point, you can control up to 20 HD of undead. You get your skeleton, and then any undead under your control in excess of 20 HD become free-willed (so this is probably a bad idea)."

Both these threads concern D & D 3.5. Nobody has noted, or maybe noticed, this.

So 3 questions.

1 Is the second thread, the one I quoted, right?

2 Then the thread Crobat links to cites the 2nd thread saying that this reasoning applies to the case of having 2 classes that can cast animate dead. Does this follow?

3 Does any of this apply to Pathfinder?

Well, I looked up animate dead from 3.5 and it reads, as relevant-

"The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. (You choose which creatures are released.) If you are a cleric, any undead you might command by virtue of your power to command or rebuke undead do not count toward the limit."

The same, relevant,part of the spell from Pathfinder reads-

"The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Undead you control through the Command Undead feat do not count toward this limit."

These wordings are identical except that the second last sentence appears in parenthesis in 3.5 and the last sentence is differently worded because a cleric in Pathfinder needs a feat to control undead with channel energy but doesn't in 3.5. Aside from that they say the same thing.

Not knowing much about 3.5 or how the rules for that relate to Pathfinder I can't resolve the issue.

As for Pathfinder as far as I can recall the guides I have read all assume if you have 2 or more classes capable of casting animate dead the 2 pools of undead work and are calculated separately. This, as Voodooist Monk notes, makes the Mystic Theurge the pinnacle of Necromancy.

FaerieGodfather wrote:

Wiiiiiiiitch. They just need contingency and permanency, and they'd be perfect.

You forgot time stop and wish.

But if witches had all that nobody would play wizards, arcanists or sorcerers.

I don't think it is widely appreciated just how far ahead their hexes, many of which don't run out, put witches ahead in power compared to other full arcane casters at lowish levels.

Wizards and Arcanists eventually catch up and when approaching level 20 their more powerful and varied spell lists put them ahead. But witches are always a good power option and few campaigns ever reach that level.

I know I am not answering your question, but I once allowed my players to craft a Lyre of Building. I knew it was powerful, but never again. Never. Ever. Not even a little bit.

GMs take note, this relatively harmless sounding thing makes most broken powerful things look under powered.

This is more related to your question than answering it.

In my experience, unless the GM has lots of time or practically knows the game by heart, their time is better put into reading what the monsters can do and thinking about it a bit before the encounter.

Even unintelligent creatures will know how to make proper use of their natural attacks and capabilities. A crocodile is an ambush predator, have it act like one rather than waddle up to the party.

I have often run more powerful and complex enemies poorly, realising later that I had not made proper use of their capabilities, resulting in an encounter easier than it should have been. Others do it too.

CBDunkerson wrote:
Misfortune works against undead.

This was what I was going to suggest, but this clever person got there first. You already have cackle, so you want to accumulate hexes it works with.

Hag Eye is a good major hex, not game breaking but good.

Witches don't excel against undead. Not a disaster, but...

Your English is better than my French.

Not to criticise, but what you call a profane caster, which I think is either the term in French or a translation of it, is called an arcane caster in English Pathfinder.

Now to your questions-

"how can i be a profane (arcane caster), and stay a tough guy,"

You can't really. You don't like the Magus, so that is out. There is the eldritch knight, which does combine arcane caster with ability to fight hand to hand, but that is a prestige class that is both long away in levels and not that powerful anyway.

" who can have many skills"

Wizards spells run off intelligence. That means you have a good int mod to add to your skill points/ level. Same with witches.

"and be a face ? Any idea ?"

Sorcerer spells run off charisma. That means you have a good cha mod to add to your social skill, so you are an OK face. It also means you normally don't have a good int mod to add to your skill points/ level, which stay around 2pts/ level.

You could try a summoner, a cha based caster. Their spells are inferior to sorcerer or wizard but they are very useful and you control a creature called an eidolon which is tough and good in a fight.

LordKailas wrote:
to start with you're responding to a thread that is 2 years old.

Well, so are you. :P

Oh no, I am too. :(

No, my post wasn't aimed at you or anyone else. In fact I hadn't even read your post.

What was intended was a simple response to the thread title
"Recommendations with dealing with demons when you are not playing the paladin" ie Don't. Which still sounds like good advice.

And I am not hypocritical enough to criticise anyone for messing up quotes on a message board. :(


I think parts of your plan are over elaborate Minigiant. Getting stealth as a class skill is good imho.

But taking hellcat stealth, for which you need skill focus stealth, already costs you 2 feats. And hellcat stealth just allows you to make Stealth checks in normal or bright light even when observed, but at a -10 penalty. Do you really need that if you are an ashtifah? And how effective is it? Is it worth 2 feats?

Secondly, in combat, how many actions does all this take? Putting those 3 hexes on an enemy takes 3 turns, per enemy, then you cast an illusion.

I think it better to misfortune your foes then start taking them out with slumber or spells.

Minigiant wrote:

Blood Havoc cannot be combined with Crossblooded powers unfortunately, and in addition to that it specifically only works with Sorcerer spells.

My biggest concern with a Witch Blaster is unlike Wizards, and to a lesser extent Sorcerers, Witchs don't gain any bonus feats

My mistake about Blood Havoc. Our group has been doing it wrong.

Valid point with some similarity to what I was saying about archetypes that gobble a lot of your hexes. See below.

avr wrote:

As blasters witches have a few problems, but I think the biggest may be a lack of spell slots. They're wizards without an arcane school (+1/level) or an arcane bond (+1, any level) in that regard. Blasters go thru spell slots really quickly.

I think a vanilla witch, an invoker w/out stacking, or an ashiftah or ley line guardian might be better than winter witch - even if winter winter witch witch looks like it's free class features, they're drawing a witch to something she's not that great at doing.

Valid point. Rings of wizardry will help a lot.

Another drawback to the blaster witch is the spell list lacks some of the best blast spells.

The winter witch build I am referring to, and can't find, dammit, is very focused on doing damage, adding debuffs, rime spell et al, and getting past saves,DR and spell resistance. It can't do anything else well, but it does that very well. Typical of the specialised builds that are most powerful at high levels.

If you want something utterly terrifying, play gestalt with the winter witch build on one side and an Aeromancer Arcanist on the other.

I suspect the best archetype stack as you put it is Invoker + Winter Witch into Winter Witch (PrC).

Invoker + Ashiftah trades away 6 of the witch's first 9 hexes, including all but one of the basic hexes, that gained at level 4. Despite being able to take the extra hex feat multiple times to replace basic hexes, this is going to hurt you at a lot of levels.

I saw a good build for a Invoker + Winter Witch into Winter Witch (PrC) with a one level dip into cross blooded sorcerer, orc and white dragon bloodlines, giving +2 damage per die on cold spells.

I can't find the thing now, but it was a good focused ice blaster build which if I recall rightly didn't even take slumber hex. Feats went into making ice blasting better.

Since it was put online, blood havoc has been published that allows a further +1 dice/ level. Take magical knack as a trait. This is one good candidate for the most powerful witch at level 20 imho.

You suffer at lower levels somewhat due to building towards a good end.

I think the witch with the most power consistently at all levels from 1 to 20 is the ashtifah. You get good, immediate value for the 2 hexes you give up, so it is very good at all levels.

Most or all of the other archetypes considered here are also very good and the "vanilla" witch is not to be underestimated.

Best race/s anyone?

Joynt Jezebel wrote:

Hexes are excellent for dealing with single opponents,albeit one at a time and at close range. Most aggressive hexes can target each creature once a day, which means they never run out. the save scales with level and at level 10 you can take the split hex feat, allowing you to affect 2 targets per action.

Minigiant wrote:
The scaling DC of hexes is great, and I think that is why the Invoker is so popular, as it is effectively a Spell Focus for their hexes
Joynt Jezebel wrote:

IMHO this makes witches the most powerful of the arcane casters as low and medium levels. wizard's and arcanist's more powerful spell list eventually allows them to catch up and maybe go ahead. But that is at high level where most campaigns do not reach.

The fact you can use hexes where another arcane caster would have to use spells means your spells last longer and can be set aside for tasks you can't do with hexes like hurting groups.

Minigiant wrote:

Hexes in essence makes you a Sorcerer in that you Spam the same thing over and over, just with backup utility spells. This is indeed why they are great at low to medium levels. They have more actions than a regular wizard. Eventually though their action economy becomes obsolete as full prepared casters make up for it in their number of spell slot.

If you are never going to get through 40 spells a day, having hexes on top doesn't give you the endurance you had at lower levels

Precisely. At high levels hexes go from being endurance to another option, still good but not vastly better. The power gap between a witch with 2 spells and slumber hex and, say , a wizard with 3 spells, is really extreme.

Joynt Jezebel wrote:

The fact witches, unlike other arcane casters get healing and reviving spells allows them to cover for lacking a divine caster. Imperfectly sure, but much better than other arcane casters.

Minigiant wrote:
The Witch I think is a great backup healer, I reserve a couple of healing spells solely for our healer, in case they go down
Minigiant wrote:
Could you explain your Winter Witch comment further, I don't quiet see how it bypasses DR

My mistake , my post didn't say what it ws meant to. :(

It is the Winter Witch prestige class that can do that, with the following class features.

"Unnatural Cold (Su)
At 3rd level, whenever a winter witch’s spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability deals cold damage, treat affected creatures as having half their normal cold resistance when determining the damage dealt.

Unearthly Cold (Su)
At 8th level, a winter witch’s spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that deal cold damage become horrendously cold. Half the cold damage caused by these effects comes from an otherworldly power and is not subject to being reduced by resistance or immunity to cold-based attacks."

Minigiant wrote:
It is very easy to garner from just searching the web, and from frequenting forums, the Witch class is not one that gets the most attention.

I agree and think their power and versatility is under appreciated. You seem to be another witch fan Minigiant.

And it is fairly easy to build an effective witch. Make some sensible and fairly obvious choices as to race, ability scores and hexes. The hardest bit is selecting an archetype, if any. Many archetypes cost you a lot, often a lot of hexes, and don't give much in return.

Hexes are excellent for dealing with single opponents,albeit one at a time and at close range. Most aggressive hexes can target each creature once a day, which means they never run out. the save scales with level and at level 10 you can take the split hex feat, allowing you to affect 2 targets per action.

IMHO this makes witches the most powerful of the arcane casters as low and medium levels. wizard's and arcanist's more powerful spell list eventually allows them to catch up and maybe go ahead. But that is at high level where most campaigns do not reach.

The fact you can use hexes where another arcane caster would have to use spells means your spells last longer and can be set aside for tasks you can't do with hexes like hurting groups.

The fact witches, unlike other arcane casters get healing and reviving spells allows them to cover for lacking a divine caster. Imperfectly sure, but much better than other arcane casters.

Archetypes? My list is a bit different and I believe the Ashtifah is no one by some way.

1 - Ashiftah Ghostwalk is just brilliant.

2 Winter Witch- has an almost unique ability to get past DR. A specialist leading to the prestige class of the same name can be made very powerful.

3 - Invoker

I don't know exactly what the game will entail. However, picking a race that can breathe underwater and has a swim speed is likely to be more important than the choice of class or archetype.

A quote from the rules [d20pfsrd]-

"Supernatural Abilities (Su)
Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability’s description). Its use cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity."

I wasn't sure about this one till I looked it up. I was pretty sure it didn't provoke but didn't know it was a standard action to activate.

Minigiant wrote:


It is a supernatural ability like standard hexes so I am inclined to say yes but, it is not clear.

I disagree.

I believe the way to determine what is a hex is it is a hex if and only if the rules call it a hex.
For example from the winter witch archetype-

"Cold Flesh (Ex)
At 1st level, a winter witch gains endure elements as a constant spell-like ability, but only against cold temperatures. At 4th level, she gains cold resistance 5, making her comfortable in near-freezing temperatures. At 9th-level, this increases to cold resistance 10, and at 14th level, it becomes immunity to cold.

This replaces the witch’s 4th-level hex.

Hexes: The following hexes complement the winter witch archetype: beast eye, blight, cook people, evil eye, feral speech, hag’s eye, hoarfrost, ice tomb, witch’s hut.

A winter witch can select the following hexes:

Frostfoot (Su) This ability works like the spider climb spell, but the surfaces the witch climbs must be icy. The witch can move across icy surfaces without penalty and does not need to make Acrobatics checks to run or charge on ice. She can move across regular snow without penalty, and heavy snow only costs her 2 squares of movement instead of 4.

Frozen Caress (Su) Whenever the winter witch casts a touch spell, she can infuse the magic with cold as a swift action. This grants the spell the cold descriptor, and adds 1d4 points of cold damage to the spell’s effect. If the touch spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates this additional cold damage."

Frostfoot and Frozen Caress are hexes because the rules say they are. Coldflesh and the Scarred Witch Doctor's Scarshield are not.

And not all hexes are supernatural abilities, Cauldron for example is an extraordinary ability.

Minigiant wrote:
2) My second question is, does it qualify you to select Extra Hex as a feat at level 1?

No, you don't have any hexes so don't have the class feature yet.

Minigiant wrote:
3) My third question if hexshield is not a hex is do special patron bonus hexes grant you the hex class feature to qualify?

Yes, you do have a hex so you have the hex class feature.

I don't mean to sound condescending. The reasons I give are very simple so it sounds like I am talking down to you.

I think Slyme is right but it is not really the point.

The idea uses up 2 feats and you lose the ability to cast fire spells with Shade of the Uskwood.

It does give you a lot of options to do the kinds of things Druids cannot innately do. It is not as good as it seems at first sight as either all or nearly all the spells you gain take up higher level spell slots.

My opinion is if I was playing with a well rounded adventuring party I wouldn't take these feats. If you have another party member who can cast the spells you gain then the value is much diminished.

If you are adventuring solo or with 1 other player, depending on what they are playing, then this could be really good.

I disagree that the 2 feats are best taken together. I would likely take Shade of the Uskwood first, for 2 spells/ level at the cost of fire spells. The benefits of Fey Spell Lore are really independent of the other feat.

I think it is definitely worth exploring esp in small adventuring groups lacking spell casting options, when it could prove excellent.

Artofregicide- I think VoodistMonk knows he is being insulting.

But I agree with you. It is a bit OTT for getting something wrong in a RPG.

As for the archetype, it is really easy to fix. As blahpers says, just add the various magic circle spells to the witches spell list for the archetype.

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I have given this question deep thought over a lengthy period and come up with the following solution.

1 Kill someone.
2 Run off with the corpse.

I hope this helps.

Minigiant wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:
Take Metamagic Master instead. It does what magical lineage does better.
I think you have them the wrong way round. Magical Lineage is the uncapped version of Metamagic Master

I think you are right. I thought the phrase " When you use the chosen spell with a metamagic feat" meant one particular metamagic feat.

The two traits are of different sorts, so you can take both. I suspect they stack if you take them on the same spell but I could be wrong again.

avr's suggestion of ice storm, which you get as a 3rd level domain spell, looks a good choice.

I like to pick AoE spells for a witch. Single targets get hexed.

Take Metamagic Master instead. It does what magical lineage does better.

Flurry of Snowballs is good with rime spell. Any AOE spell with the cold descriptor suits, ice storm or cone of cold if you are prepared to wait for a long time. Hurting a bunch of enemies and entangling them is really good.

Minigiant wrote:

What people seem to forget is that Cackle only works within 30ft, and the Witch is likely going to have to put themselves in harms way for it to benefit everyone. Protective Luck also doesn't affect the Witch themselves, so you have to ask, why isn't the DM (With smart enemies) targeting the Witch?

Valid points.

I suggest checking out the Ashtifah archetype, which gives you-

"Ghostwalk (Su): Starting at 2nd level, as a move action after using a hex, an ashiftah can become invisible as per vanishAPG and can then take a 5-foot step. Using ghostwalk doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.

This ability replaces the hex gained at 2nd level.

Fog of War (Sp): At 6th level, as a standard action, an ashiftah can blanket a 20-foot-radius area of the battlefield in a clammy mist that functions as per barrow hazeACG, allowing her to treat any area within the mist as within 30 feet for purposes of her hexes, as long as some part of that area is within 30 feet of her.

This replaces the hex gained at 6th level."

2 features of the archetype which help out with the problems you mention. Fog of war is nice, but ghostwalk is just brilliant generally.

My apologies for not reading the text of Soothsayer corretly.
I thought it worked the same as many similar hexes, and maybe it should.

Minigiant wrote:

I do agree with you MrCharisma but I would be careful saying

MrCharisma wrote:

The problem people have here isn't Protective Luck, it's Protective Luck + Soothsayer + Cackle. That's 3 hexes combined to only give 1 debuff, and it's roughly the same debuff you'd get from Misfortune or Evil Eye.

Is it a strong combination? Sure, but it's 3 hexes, so it should be strong. I don't think this even compares to Slumber or Ice Tomb.

Because it is not as simple as 1 debuff, it is 1n where n is the number of people in your party

Another question- is it really Protective Luck + Soothsayer + Cackle?

Most witches have cackle, or a cackler's blouse, anyway, so it is not really an issue.

So it is 2 hexes for the effect. And even there, you can use Soothsayer to make other hexes more effective.

It is unusual. Cackle does nothing by itself. And soothsayer does nothing w/o cackle and at least one "cacklable" hex.

If you have or are going to take cackle and soothsayer you should take as many "cacklable" hexes as possible.

Roco wrote:


Soothsayer (Su)

The witch’s predictions become self-fulfilling prophecies.

Benefit(s): When the witch uses the evil eye hex, fortune hex, misfortune hex, or retribution major hex, she can choose to delay the effect. If she does so, the hex takes effect the next time the target makes a roll that could be affected by the hex (such as an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check) or is affected by an action that could be modified by the hex (such as being attacked when the hex would affect the target’s AC), whichever comes first (ignoring actions that are not in combat and actions that have no penalty for failure). The duration of the hex begins on the same round as the action that causes it to take effect.

The hex is wasted if it is not triggered within 24 hours.

is this too powerful a combination?

With protective luck + soothsayer you can pre-protect your whole party before any fight.

Add in cackle and they are protected the whole fight, every fight.

I disagree with Dairfaron in that I don't think Soothsayer works the way you want it to.

The hex reads- " When the witch uses the evil eye hex, fortune hex, misfortune hex, or retribution major hex, she can choose to delay the effect. If she does so, the hex takes effect the next time the target makes a roll that could be affected by the hex ..."

You have to delay the hex when you use it, not later.

Soothsayer makes it much easier and more convenient to get each party member buffed with protective luck, fortune or both as you can do it before combat starts. Then you can cackle, but once you stop the hex/s will be over. Powerful and useful but not overly so imho.

It is an interesting idea. Both the Waves revelation and spirit have a lot of good stuff in them.

One point- why Tengu? Changeling is a better race game mechanically as you can get natural attacks and a +2 charisma, which is what you want as an oracle.

Minigiant wrote:
Is the 2nd combo (Wintry Touch + Beckoning Chill) worth it?

Given the amount you have to pay in feats etc to get it and how late it shows up clearly not.

Compare it to a Shaman who spends their 1st 2 feats on weapon focus claws and hex strike and 1st hex on witch hex = slumber. You can hex strike with slumber, or just slumber, and coup de grace them next round. True they get a save, but it costs less, is better and shows up at level 3 not 11.

This does not mean the idea is useless, but the 2nd combo is meh. The icy spells revelation is much more attractive in my eyes. And a lot of the waves revelations are good.

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It is a cool idea.

As to how to do it game mechanically, well I don't think there is a clear answer. You can't get all that close to being a phoenix whatever you do. Eldritch heritage won't give you much "phoenix stuff" until you are very high level, so I likely would not do that.

What I suggest you do is have a look at the Phoenix as a creature and the phoenix bloodline for sorcerers and bloodragers. That is basically your 2 options. Then let your imagination go wild as to how the phoenix/ humanoid will look and work when translated into a Pathfinder character.

Bloodrager or Magus is a melee idea, sorcerer or arcanist a full arcane caster.

Then think about which of your class ideas strikes you as coolest, most phoenix like and, importantly, you most want to play.

Last idea, as a race Samsaran or Ifrit might work.

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This is actually rather a thorny question.

As far as I can tell class feature isn't defined but each class has a sentence like-

"Class Features
The following are class features of the fighter."

or "Class Features
The following are the class features of the shaman."

And the class features are the headings and descriptions that follow. One of those for the shaman is "Hex" and another is "Wandering Spirit".
Witches also get a Hex class feature expressed the same way. Spirit guides are given shaman’s wandering spirit class feature. Which results in them having a hex, but they don't get the Hex class feature as such.

So I think the answer by the RAW is no. I could be wrong. Many GMs might disagree or house rule it otherwise.

Quixote wrote:
This player knows I'm right, I'm sure of it. They've conceded on all of the issues I've addressed with them. The problem is that they threw such a fit and made pointing out things like basic math errors a chore, and it's not one I feel like continuing. So I don't think I will. I'll just let them play their hopelessly terrible character for as long as they can manage or have a desire to. If asked, I will point out that they're basically running at 25% capacity; when you fail to implement the sub-par choices you've made correctly, you'll suck. Bad. And I'll point out that, due to how my first line of comments was received, I didn't really feel inclined to have another go at it. It's not my character, after all. And I'm not a grade school teacher correcting anyone's book reports.

This is definitely a new breed of problem player to me.

I was going to suggest herolab, but it has already been done.

What you intend seems as good a solution as you are likely to get. Help them fix things if and when they come to their senses.

Last thing. This is one of your oldest friends, so I take it they are not a pain most of the time. Maybe they are suffering in other ways and this is a symptom.

I think you are correct but have virtually no experience with planar binding so have little to contribute there.

But I do know about summoning monsters. And Alien Summons is powerful just with summon nature's ally.

Misfortune and cackle really messes enemies up, and if you have fortune or protective luck up on your party member/s then you are cackling anyway...

I wouldn't invest more than 3 feats in summoning, and maybe none at all unless that is what you really want. It is an excellent strategy, but witches don't innately have anything to facilitate it.

Hexes are half or more of your power at low levels and are always great. The more you have the better.

I have played a lot of witches and also master summoners so am a good person to ask if you want to play a witch with a summoning focus.

First summoning. Imho Superior Summons will do a lot more for you than summon good monster. I am not sure the second is really worth the feat.

I would choose the feats-

1 (Level- Improved initiative
3 (Level) - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
5 (Level) - Augment Summoning
7 (Level) - Summon Good Monster
9 (Level) - Extra Hex
11 (Level - split Hex- just read what it does, nuff said.

The first hex I want is always slumber- it is so good some GMs won't allow it. Cackle is great but does nothing by itself and it improves with each cacklable [?] hex. If you can get a cackler's blouse I would just use that to cackle for a while.

So hexes I would take-
1 - Ward (Bonus)
1 - Scarshield (Class)
2 - Protective Luck
4 - Misfortune
6- Flight- great after level 5,once it allows you to fly
8 Fortune
9 extra hex Iceplant

When you get major hexes I suggest you look at what your party needs and what your witch can do already. Agony and Ice tomb are v good and that should be all the aggressive hexes you need. Hag's eye and Major ameliorating are good in other ways.

Hope this helps.

I was going to sugges the revelation-

Undead Servitude (Su): You gain Command Undead as a bonus feat. You can channel negative energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier, but only to use Command Undead. You can take other feats to add to this ability, such as Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Alignment Channel.

Then realised Lord Kailas had already done so. And it conveniently comes from the same Oracle revelation as Spirit Vessels.

You wanted to be of good alignment. There is nothing in the rules that says you have to be evil, or even can't be good, and be a JuJu Oracle.

You will likely have trouble convincing others that you and your monstrous horde of undead slaves are not evil however. And some GMs won't allow an good undead master but by the rules that is certainly a way to do it.

An alternative is a Wizard, necromancy school which has this as a level 1 power-

Power over Undead (Su)
You receive Command Undead or Turn Undead as a bonus feat. You can channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier, but only to use the selected feat. You can take other feats to add to this ability, such as Extra Channel and Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Elemental Channel and Alignment Channel. The DC to save against these feats is equal to 10 + 1/2 your wizard level + your Charisma modifier. At 20th level, undead cannot add their channel resistance to the save against this ability.

I would think you have to channel +ve energy if good, but your GM may not agree. But you can be neutral. It is another option.

Meirril wrote:

There is no way you can saddle a tiny owl. That means the owl has to pick the wizard up with either its talons or beak. Flying involves rapid up and down movements, and a total lack of anything to brace against. The wizard should be flailing about like a flag.

It should be possible to make some kind of harness to make it easier for the owl to hold onto your wizard. Not sure how that goes in game mechanics, but it should make things easier without solving all the problems.

Somewhat off topic there is a real life creature called a powerful owl. They can't carry people but they need to be handled with care as their talons can cut through bones.

Aquatic Creature (CR +0)[3pp]Aquatic creatures dwell within seas and lakes, mainly along coastal regions.

If the creature dwells exclusively underwater, it gains the aquatic subtype and replaces its land or fly speed with an identical swim speed. If the creature is able to also travel on land, it gains the amphibious special quality, reduces its land speed by 10 ft., loses any fly speed, and acquires a swim speed equal to its original speed. An aquatic creature also gains low-Light vision 60 ft.

Well, you might be missing the bit I italicised.

If you take the swim speed you don't lose some things. I agree it's not much.

And the Extra Feature feat allows you to take any 2 of your bestial features when you assume your bestial form. So it isn't pointless. But whether it is a good use of a feat is another question.

Damahrah wrote:

I think the oracle can take riftwarden at level 7 since he gets magic circle against evil at 6, not that it's a huge problem.

Correct. My mistake.

And yes, if faced with the summon monster spell, trying to counter is is not as much of a bad strategy as I had suggested.

It isn't a power strategy anyway. Summoning monsters isn't common enough for a start. But you already know that.

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