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546 posts. Organized Play character for Kydeem de'Morcaine.

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SPOILERS – You were warned, so no complaining if you keep reading.

Alrighty then. We are very nearly at the end of book 2. Stopped in the middle of what I think is the final fight.

There is a very excellent chance my PC won't survive this combat. I have no problem with that. He is behaving in character and there are consequences for what he has done. It's all good.

But I'm planning out my potential replacement character. Now since our group has done an excellent job of making friends/allies of nearly every (I think) sentient group encountered, the GM and I discussed and it seemed very appropriate that maybe one of them would want to send someone along to see what the colony is getting up to in its activities. GM wasn't sure about dealing with the flying Stryx or the intelligent constructs. He's not sure how that would effect future game headaches. I'm having trouble coming up with a fish man personality that I like. So that leads me to the Monkey Goblin tribe.

So the monkey goblins just strike me as hilarious. Especially since they don't seem to be actually evil (though still quite chaotic) or at least that is how he was portraying them.

Now the group is 7th level and has a sorcerer, slayer, gunslinger, and rogue. All amphibious races. So operating in the water is no problem at all for them. I don't want to be an 'anchor' for the party (pun intended). I still need to be able to operate in the water for extended periods of time without too much hassle.

I think we need a bit more of a melee presence. The gunslinger has often been standing on the front line and taking melee attacks just because he has a very high AC. Ranged damage has been handled by the gunslinger and blaster sorcerer. The rogue has a very high stealth and disable device. Reasonably high acrobatics and perception.

This is leading me to first level as barbarian and the rest as druid. GM agreed the Kraken Caller archetype seemed very appropriate for a tribe living on a small island even though he is worshiping Zogmugot. The Goblin goddess of drowning, flotsam, and scavanging.

Druid's wild shape for hours would of course let him operating in the water. I'm planning more on the melee aspect than the spell casting aspect. Long term buffs for himself, his animal companion, and maybe even the party after he starts trusting them. Plus he has the condition removal spells on his list that he could prep the next day when something comes up.

The level of barbarian was almost mostly character personality development, but a bit of rage is always nice in melee and martial weapon proficiency isn't useless. Though I suppose he might be mostly fighting with natural weapons when wildshaped.

I'm struggling a bit on animal companion.
- I absolutely loved the idea of the Gliding Turtle! Just hilarious picturing a goblin riding a slowly descending turtle into combat. However, we have had exactly 2 combats where it might have even been possible to get up somewhere high and glide into combat. Though I suppose we're approaching the level where I could start using air walk on it. But it also isn't at all aquatic and doesn't seem very Kraken Caller-ish
- The snapping turtle would definitely help with a tank-ish melee presence. It is at least semi-aquatic. It has a swim speed and can hold it's breath. But doesn't seem too likely for the arboreal Monkey Goblins.
- A squid would be most appropriate for the Kraken Caller. But of course could only be used in the water. Not all encounters have been underwater and I'm not sure how useful it would be in the future. Hosteling armor enchantment would let me carry it around when not in the water.

I guess I'm leaning toward either the squid or the snapping turtle. Not entirely satisfied with either though. Can you think of some other amphibious/aquatic animal companion that would be appropriate for a Monkey Goblin Kraken Caller?!?

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

Ok, first question. Which dragon bloodline would seem most appropriate and/or at home in adventures near, on, or under the ocean? I know blacks are in the swamps, greens in the forests, blue in the deserts. But I don't remember any of the basic types being discussed much in relation to the oceans/seas.

So we have a group of players that are at least moderately new to PF. Even the games they have played, I get the impression that most of them never optimized all that much. I, on the other hand, can't stand to not optimize my characters as much as possible considering the basic concept. So I feel like I'm dominating the game time way too much.

I've been in similar situations. My solution is to take a fairly non-optimal basic concept. Then I can optimize the heck out of it and be about on par with the others. One of the ones I'm currently pondering is a caster focused DD. Most will tell you DD is a melee chassis plus it loses casting levels, so I figure it has to be pretty much in the non-optimal caster category.
- Probably just human since my unique wierdness will come from changing into a dragon.
- Thinking 1 level of bloodrager for when I really lose my temper, get ambushed at close ranger, something resistant to my spells, or i run out of spells. Then 4 levels of sorcerer. All 10 levels of DD. If the campaign goes long enough (probably not) I will finish out with sorcerer.
- Will take the feats (I think it was Prestigious Spell Caster) to get back lost casting levels.
- Not sure if I should do crossblooded. There are some abilities that mesh very nicely, but losing a spell known of each level and the -2 to will saves is hard.
- Considering either the Eldritch Heritage tree or VMC another class to get some more wierd abilities. Ha! I suppose I could Heritage a 3rd bloodline.

So this would give me a very nearly full arcane casting class. But not a whole lot of feats to make it overpowered. Some versatility since I can melee if needed (but not enough to overshadow the full melee builds). Charisma will be decent so I can at least help out in social situations.

Thoughts, Questions, Concerns?

I'm using a friends account for this thread since I have never bothered to make a Paizo account.

There are a few of us players starting a new campaign. We aren't complete noobs but we have only played fairly simple characters up until now. We are going to atttempt branching out into some complex stuff to learn this stuff as a group. The GM knows and is on board with this. We are basically just doing a short mini-campaign on fast forward just to learn this stuff.

So of the umpteen bajillion possibilities, we would like to narrow down some of these choices to reduce the learning curve a bit.

1) Hunter, Animal Companion to fight alongside:
1a) When I've seen them played they seem fairly fragile glass cannons. If you buy the gear, abilities, etc... to make them do a lot of damage, they seem to get taken out pretty easily. Or I've seen a couple of people use them as a high AC meat shield, but then they don't do all that much damage. Is that a fair assessment?
1b) If yes, which animals work best for either role?

2) Druid Wildshape for melee Combat:
2a) Since armor and weapons go poof when you wild shape, it again seems like it would make you fragile. Is that correct?
2b) Is the very expensive armor that stays with you when you wildshape worth the exorbitant cost? If not, which gear should be bought?
2c) Since the various polymorph spells seem to be primarily just limited on size, is there like a list of the best combat shape choices of each size for each creature type? For example; X123 is the best huge combat animal, Y456 is the best large vermin, Z789 is the best medium humanoid, etc... Anyone have something like that?
2d) Obviously changes a whole bunch if in non-standard environment. When you are in the air, are you better off as a big animal that flies or a much smaller air elemental? Same question for underwater?

3) Magus spell combat.
3a) This whole thing is really confusing in the way it is written. Does the extra attack stack with haste? Am I reading this right that I can get itterative attacks, 2 touch spells, and an extra attack all in one round? That doesn't seem right.
3b) Does someone have a clear explanation, flow chart, or something?
3c) Can this work with mounted lance charge attacks? I know the scimitar crit-fisher is the standard. But we were thinking about a mounted charge first. Then drop the lance (really it should break) and draw the scimitar.

4) Summoned Creatures (Monster or Natures Ally)
4a) With the multiple bestiaries, the list of what could be summoned is pretty huge. Which ones tend to be most useful?
4b) Is it usually better to summon one of the highest level or a few of a lower level?

5) Combat Maneuvers
5a) Similar to the magus question, is there a flow chart or something to show a bit more clearly what you can and can't do?
5b) Grab / Grapple / Constrict, when does the constrict damage actually suppost to begin? I was told it is immediately after and in the same round as the successful attack that started the constrict. If that is true, aren't you better off to release and re-grab each round to get twice as much damage? That seems kinda stupid?

Thanks for any help with any of that big list!

The Exchange

So I actually have a fair amount of leeway on this guy. He advanced several levels at once from running a module series. His build is below. But I could still change the last few levels of gear and build since I haven't played him yet.

Not sure about a few choices and how some of them interact by the rules.

- This guy is going for the single big hit grenade launcher action. The explosive missile discovery and conductive weapon will let me add 2 bomb damage onto my pistol damage (for the cost of 3 of my daily bombs). Correct me if I'm wrong but if I use those with the targeted bomb admixture formula, I can take a shot (usually ranged touch) that will do d6 bullet plus 8d6+20 fire damage. At 8th level, that is pretty nice.
- Concussive missile discovery is for those fire resistant enemies. Had a real tough time with a bunch of poison and fire immune devils. It is the very rare creature that is resistant to sonic damage. Even more rare to be resistant to both fire and sonic.
Those 2 discoveries are pretty set in the build.

- Was thinking about the bore bomb discover. It seems very saboteur-ish. But unless an inanimate object resists at least the first 15 of fire or 10 of sonic, I'd actually do better with regular bombs.
- Not really sure about explosive bombs. Do I really need a radius increase? PFS is usually a very small number of opponents anyway. Similar thinking for the strafe bomb discovery.
- Considered the tangle or poison bombs. But the couple guys I've seen use them, most creatures seem to make the saves. Alchemist DC's don't tend to get as high as focused spell caster DC's.
- Thought about deadly aim, but is specifically says it doesn't work with ranged touch attacks. And usually I'm maneuvering to try and get close enough that my pistol as wells as bombs are always touch attacks.

- Is there some way to get something like keen or impact on a pistol or its ammo?
- I know he needs to purchase some silver, adamantine and cold-iron ammo. That is next on the list, just haven't gotten to it yet.
- What do you think about all the other types of specialty ammo? Are they worth the cost?
- Does dryload ammo need to have a +1 enchantment first? I'm getting differing opinions.
- Bought the endless bandolier. But is there some other alchemist or gunslinger specifc items I should be purchasing for this type of character? Maybe before the headband and the second plus on the armor?
- Far shot and reckless aim feats are under consideration.
- Distance, reliable, and seeking are properties I was considering adding to my pistol.
- Any way to increase the bomb save DC's

Ehm Sven Nien, 30504-9:

Male gnome alchemist (saboteur) 7/gunslinger (pistolero) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 26, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide 36, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 9, 51)
CG Small humanoid (gnome)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +14 (+16 vs. magic traps)
AC 18, touch 13, flat-footed 16 (+5 armor, +2 Dex, +1 size)
hp 69 (8 HD; 7d8+1d10+24)
Fort +12, Ref +11, Will +5; +4 bonus vs. poison
Speed 20 ft.
Melee mwk cold iron steel terbutje +8/+3 (1d6/19-20)
Ranged +1 conductive pistol +11 (1d6+1/×4) or
. . bomb +10 (4d6+5 fire) or
. . concussive bomb +10 (4d4+5 sonic) or
. . pistol +10 (1d6/×4)
Special Attacks bomb 17/day (4d6+5 fire, DC 18), deeds (gunslinger's dodge, quick clear, up close and deadly +1d6), grit (1)
Alchemist (Saboteur) Extracts Prepared (CL 7th; concentration +12)
. . 3rd—fly (2)
. . 2nd—alter self, aram zey’s focus, false life, see invisibility
. . 1st—blurred movement[ACG], bomber's eye[APG], heightened awareness[ACG], longshot[UC], shield, targeted bomb admixture[UC]
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 20, Wis 12, Cha 9
Base Atk +6; CMB +5; CMD 17
Feats Extra Bombs[APG], Extra Discovery[APG], Gunsmithing[UC], Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Throw Anything, Weapon Focus (pistol)
Traits black powder bravado, meticulous concoction
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+2 to jump), Appraise +9, Climb +6, Craft (alchemy) +20 (+27 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy -1 (+1 vs. geniekind), Disable Device +14 (+16 vs. magic traps), Fly +8, Heal +5, Knowledge (arcana) +16 (+18 to understand the nature and ways of dragons), Knowledge (engineering) +17, Knowledge (local) +16 (+18 to identify drow and their customs, weaknesses, and tactics), Knowledge (planes) +13 (+15 vs. geniekind, +15 to identify demons and other outsiders native to the Abyss), Linguistics +7 (+9 to learn about Azlanti sentence construction and idioms), Perception +14 (+16 vs. magic traps), Ride +6, Sense Motive +1 (+3 to distinguish between true statements and exaggeration regarding esoteric topics), Sleight of Hand +6, Spellcraft +12, Survival +5 (+7 to navigate Jungles of Mwangi Expanse, +7 to notice and follow tracks in Arctic environments), Swim +4, Use Magic Device +3; Racial Modifiers +2 Craft (alchemy), +2 Perception
Languages Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Dwarven, Gnome, Hallit, Infernal, Kelish, Osiriani, Sylvan
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +7), discoveries (concussive bomb, explosive bomb, explosive missile[UC], precise bombs [5 squares]), gunsmith, master tinker[APG], poison use, swift alchemy
Combat Gear oil of magic weapon, potion of cure light wounds, wand of comprehend languages (47 charges), wand of detect magic (47 charges), wand of endure elements (40 charges), wand of infernal healing (29 charges), acid, alchemical grease[APG], alchemist's fire, antiplague[APG], antitoxin, bottled lightning[UE], flash powder[APG], holy water, itching powder[UE], liquid ice[APG], tanglefoot bag, thunderstone, vermin repellent[UE]; Other Gear +1 expeditious mithral chain shirt, +1 conductive pistol[UC], mwk cold iron steel terbutje, paper cartridge[UC] (17), pistol[UC], cloak of resistance +2, endless bandolier[UE], handy haversack, headband of vast intelligence +2, adamantine wire saw[UE], alchemist's lab, alchemy crafting kit[APG], candle, chalk, climber's kit, cold weather outfit, earplugs[APG], fishhook, flint and steel, ink, inkpen, parchment, pathfinder chronicle[ISWG], pathfinder chronicle[ISWG], pathfinder chronicle[ISWG], pathfinder chronicle[ISWG], pathfinder chronicles, volume 1, pathfinder chronicles, volume 11, pathfinder chronicles, volume 14, pathfinder chronicles, volume 2, pathfinder chronicles, volume 27, pathfinder chronicles, volume 44, scroll case, sewing needle, signal whistle, spell component pouch, spell component pouch, string or twine[APG], swarmsuit[APG], thieves' tools, torch, trail rations (3), waterskin, weapon cord[APG], whetstone, wrist sheath, spring loaded, wrist sheath, spring loaded, 268 pp, 7 gp, 1 sp, 1 cp
Special Abilities
Alchemy +7 (Su) +7 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Bomb 4d6+5 (17/day, DC 18) (Su) Thrown Splash Weapon deals 4d6+5 fire damage.
Concussive Bomb (Su) Bomb deals sonic damage with reduced die size.
Deeds Use Grit to perform special abilities with your firearms.
Explosive Bomb (Su) Bombs have splash radius 10 ft. and those directly hit catch fire.
Explosive Missile Use bomb with ranged weapon.
Grit (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on firearm crit/killing blow.
Gunsmith Gain free starting firearm that only you can use properly.
Gunsmithing You can use a gunsmithing kit to craft/repair firearms and ammo.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Master Tinker You are proficient with any weapon you have personally crafted.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Poison Use You do not risk poisoning yourself accidentally while poisoning a weapon.
Precise Bombs (Su) Exclude up to 5 squares from splash damage of your bombs.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Swift Alchemy (Ex) Construct alchemical items in half the normal time.
Throw Anything Proficient with improvised ranged weapons. +1 to hit with thrown splash weapons.

So I have a few people who want to start a new gaming group. But with a bit different of a focus. Most of them have never or almost never GM'd anything at all. They would like to start learning how. We talked about it. PFS1 scenarios are actually pretty ideal for a new GM. Limited scope and choices. GM doesn't have to make up much of anything. Less prep required. Short duration. Etc...

So we will rotate through taking turns as GM for each scenario. We know each other and all understand the situation. So no pressure of looking like a fool in front of strangers. Can help each other with any rules questions, maps, pawns, and stuff like that.

Now since it will also be the same group of people each week, they would like it to seem, as much as possible, like a regular contiguous campaign rather than a series of disjointed adventures.

So what I would like is a suggestion of a series of PFS scenarios that if run together will seem more like a campaign.

Note: If some of the scenarios are more complex for the GM, that is acceptable. Two of us have GM and PFS experience and can handle those.

Ok, so I'm looking for ideas for our specific situation, but it might also be a good place to list thoughts for this in general.

Got a couple of people who are likely to join our group. One has very nearly zero experience in RPG's at all. The other has played some RPG's but not PF and not ones that are nearly as complex as PF.

Both are more than a bit daunted by the amount of material we use and have absorbed as 'group knowledge' over the years. When I really think about it, I can't blame them. We routinely use stuff from over 20 books without even needing to look anything up very often. But the group isn't interested in switching to a new simpler system even though we would like to have some new blood in the group.

So I've been talking about it with our prospective newbies. Making the character build plans is one of the most complex things in PF1. Especially with the nearly limitless possibilities from so many books. Even some very experienced players don't like the complexity of character building in PF1. So I'm going to build the characters for them. Absolutely with their input. But I'm going to make builds that have limited in-play mechanical choices to keep track of at first and gradually get new things that can be done as they have at least partially absorbed their earlier capabilities. So it doesn't really matter if the build is complex, just so the initial capabilities are fairly simple and new things are introduced gradually.

I want to make sure they also have some decent out-of-combat utility. I don't want them to ever feel sidelined. But good totals in some of the most common skills and maybe a few other generally utility abilities will help with that. So things like perception, sense motive, linguistics, any knowledge, and diplomacy would be very appropriate.
As the GM for the group, I can make sure they don't have any capabilities that will be totally useless. Profession sailor or favored enemy lycanthropes might never come up in some campaigns.
I should also mention, most especially with new players, I let them switch things out pretty often if they find something wasn't as fun as they thought it would be. So if the player hates missing because of power attack they could change it to weapon focus without penalty. If the learn they never seem to be able to use fireball because of hitting allies or innocents they could switch it slow and just affect who they want to.

Well my friend wasn't able to play his animator, but it go me thinking about it.

There are still a lot of PFS1 games in my local area and my characters are starting level out of the low ones. So I need to start a new guy.

Now for PFS there could be some Pharasmites at the table or in the mission. Could also be kids or others that just don't like undead. I am certainly not going to force working with undead on to them. So the character has to be able to function just fine when it isn't appropriate to animate.

It is a very rare PFS scenario that gives lots of bodies that could be animated. So I don't want to concentrate the build on large numbers of undead. I would rather focus on 1 or 2 that can be as durable and effective as possible.

Also, PFS generally only goes up to level 12. I might get the chance to put some PC's through seeker level adventures, but certainly not all of them. So I'm only planning through level 12. Therefore want to be doing some animating as soon as is reasonable. To me, that says cleric or oracle (let me know if you have other thoughts).

I'm looking for suggestions and ideas based on those 3 main criteria.
1) Can function well even if not animating.
2) Fairly decently functioning undead rather than huge numbers.
3) Want to play with the concept at low level since only up through level 12.

Sorry for this stupid question, but I'm not at home in front of my books and searching on my phone is a pain.

Which types of bonuses stack? Is it competence and luck bonuses that stack with themselves and everything else overlaps and it is just the best value?

Can you make a masterwork tool (non-magical) to give a bonus on stealth? And what kind of bonus is it?

Probably going to start at least one more PFS1 character. There are still some PFS1 sessions being held in my local area. When one is low level, I will want something to play. All my others are getting close to level 5 and over.

Not sure what to start.

I still haven't gotten my chance to really play a dragon disciple. But I'm thinking that won't really get toward being a lot of fun until level 10 or so. Even if I get this character up to those levels (not certain with PFS2 becoming more common), I doubt I would get to play him in much seeker level content.

Also been considering an animating necromancer of some kind. However, there seem to be a lot of paladins and clerics of pharasma in my area lately. I would still have to be good at just spell casting when they are around.

A real sneaky scout tracker might be fun. Going far enough ahead to actually give fore warning so people can really buff and plan. A lot of scenarios don't really seem to allow that as a possibility though. Not sure if it would be worth the effort.

A halfling hunter with a giant wasp on which to fly around.

An illusionist to mystify. Though a lot of GM's seem to rule differently on what you can actually do to fool people with various illusions.

Never really made use of the Occult casters yet.


I'm trying to help a friend with a character concept, then eventually a build.

He wants to build a PC focused on necromancy. But not the undead armies, poison, and plague across the land type. At least not to begin with. =0

The character is actually intended to be LE. But using his powers in the service of the authorities (and the party) to make the nation a better and more stable place. He is doing this to build a positive reputation, get in the good graces of the authorities, and get favors owed to him.
Eventually he wants to turn himself into some type of undead creature and never quite die existing as a powerful spellcaster. The undead armies and plagues would be ok with him at that point.

Note: that last part of becoming undead may not actually occur in this campaign. (They are not sure how long it will last.) But that will be the actual end goal of the PC. The focus is to never die, not to turn himself into a target for every do-gooder that ever sets out.

He would like some suggestions as to what kind of spellcaster might wok best for this and what kind of undead should he be aiming to become. So what would you suggest for him?

Edit: I should mention, he does not see this a becoming a problem with the rest of the group. They are building a fairly neutral-ish mercenary type group. They also don't optimize so well, so if his PC isn't the ultimate, that is ok.

Ok, so I'm looking to build a scout with trap spotting ability.

I would like to take a figment familiar so that if it get blasted I get it back tomorrow. I can't remember if figment will combine with valet on the familiar. It would be nice to have the stealth synergy teamwork feat.

Really haven't decided on a build yet. However, I do want spells. So a pure rouge or slayer build isn't for me. Don't know why but I can't seem to be in a game with magic and myself not having some of that magic for my own. However, I don't have to be a primary caster.

Arcane trickster springs immediately to mind. I like the idea, but everyone says it is a horrible choice. Inquisitor has great skills, decent magic, and interesting abilities; yet would probably need something to deal with magic traps and to get a familiar. Investigator has the best skills and ok magic; yet would need some work to get a familiar.

For race, I'm thinking ratfolk or fetchling. Maybe I could talk the GM into a wayang.

Grand Lodge

Herolabs says celestial familiars are not available to Core characters. I know Herolabs isn't infallible, but it is usually correct. So I want to check.

Improved Familiar is a feat in the Core Rulebook.
Right there in the wording of the feat, it says you can have a celestial template added onto any of the animals on the regular list.
I was going to take a celestial cat until I get to 7th level and can take a homonuculus.

It isn't that big a deal either way, just checking.

Another idea we are working on is for a character that is constantly trying to pass along other conditions and effects with his weapon attacks.

So we are looking at all the ways this can be done so we can try to figure out the best combination. If you are constantly causing the bad guy to make 1-3 more saves nearly every time you hit, it will quickly add up. Even if the saves aren't high and the effects are minor, lots of saves will eventually mean failures and a bunch of minor effects are sometimes worse than 1 big effect.

Magus can tack spells on to any weapon attack.
Poisoned weapons
Conductive weapon can channel any touch or ranged touch Su or Sp ability
Fey sorcerer bloodline has laughing touch to use with a conductive weapon
Aberrant bloodrager bloodline can cause staggering criticals
Bloodcrystal can increase bleed damage
Viridium weapons cause save vs leprosy
Spiresteel causes save or staggered on critical hit
Throneglass can cause spell disruption

So what other things can you think of and how best to stack a bunch of them up on one build?

Need some help on a direction here. Guy wants a fighter. However, he doesn't want it to be the 'same' all through its career. Meaning not just always full-attack-with-X getting gradually improving attack bonus and damage bonus. He wants to learn to do new things with the weapon(s).
So he's thinking things like spiked chain, flails, meteor hammer, etc... So he can have reach, trip, grapple, distracting, performance, and/or whatever. So what weapon(s) and combination of abilities seem most interesting and useful to you?Any other ideas I can pass along?


an old man shuffles to the center of the courtyard and stands up on the ranting soapbox

I don't get this obsession with requiring an extensive detailed backstory for every PC.

Yes, the PC had to come from somewhere.
Yes, you want to make sure the PC will have a personality that can mesh with the others at the game table.
Yes, some idea of how the PC will behave, react, and be motivated can help the GM deal and maybe even other players interact.

I get that. All well and good. I will give a paragraph or three about where he (or she) comes from, what motivates him, his general attitudes, and maybe even his future plans. But guess what. I am not an acclaimed fantasy author. I will never be an author. I don't want to be an author. I won't be writing a multi-page autobiography for every character I put forth for consideration.

"Tell me what it was like being a human in a mostly gnome village? Give me some details." I don't know. I've never been in such a situation. I don't care. What does it matter?

"Who was your PC's first love?" Why does it matter? Who cares? Yes, I had a crush on some girl in middle school. Guess what? Her name and what she was like has had zero impact on anything after I got out of middle school.

"How many siblings did you have and how did they get along with your parents?" Now you're asking for expanded backstory on other people you had me add to my expanded backstory?!? WTF! If I wanted to invent a detailed clan history, I would have done so.

"Give me details on his life before he became a magus." Well he has a rank in profession fisherman. So I  guess it is reasonable to assume he was a fisherman. But you know what? No, I have really given no thought to what the everyday life of a Renaissance fisherman is like. Why do you want to know this?!?

"What other adventures and exploits has he accomplished?" He is a 17 year old, zero experience, 1st level character. He hasn't yet slain any dragons or rescued any damsels in distress.

"What side is he taking on the moral conflict between Desna and Erastil?" What conflict? He's a magus and has Nethys in the deity slot. I, as a player, have heard of no such conflict. He, as a character that worships a different deity, probably would give a rat's behind. Is it something you happened to see mentioned in some other source book? Why would you assume I know about it and that my character would have to take a side?

And heaven forbid that something in all that invented BS should happen to not agree 100% with something cannon in one of the umpteen source books, modules, AP's, scenerios, or 3rd party books about Golarion that the GM has read and I have not.


Again, I will give a paragraph or three about where he comes from, what motivates him, his general attitudes, and probably his future plans (if he has any). But why would you expect or even want me to put all that useless/meaningless effort into a PC that you, as like as not, are going to decide not to allow in your game?

The inclusion or lack of a small novel detailing every nuance of the PC's history and mental meanderings has nothing to do with how I play the PC and whether or not he has a personality.

the once proud figure, his shoulders slumped, steps off the ranting soapbox to allow someone else a turn

Want to build as close as I can come to playing an actual angel. (I’ve been informed my recent PC’s have been a bit dark and bordering on evil.) Plan to make all decisions based on doing the greatest good for all involved. Part of that will, of course, be punishing evil-doers.

So I’m thinking an Assimar. No heritage so he keeps the Daylight ability.
Angelic Blood, Burnished Skin, Wings, Metallic Wings, and the feats that expand on the Daylight ability. He will sure look like an angel.
Neutral Good, Warpriest, Desna. Warpriest will give me a few free combat feats with the starknife and maybe Dazzling Display. Blessings,spells, and other warpriest stuff will give him enough to keep it interesting and something to do in most any situation.

Below is a rough build at level 7 with just some basic equipment.


Aasimar warpriest of Desna 7 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 60, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 7)
NG Medium outsider (native)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +7
AC 23, touch 12, flat-footed 21 (+9 armor, +2 Dex, +2 shield)
hp 59 (7d8+21)
Fort +8, Ref +4, Will +9; +2 vs. [evil], +2 bonus vs. fire effects, +1 trait bonus vs. charm and compulsion
Defensive Abilities sacred armor (+1, 7 minutes/day); Resist acid 7, cold 7, electricity 7, fire 7
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee adamantine starknife +9 (1d8+4/×3) or
. . mwk cold iron starknife +9 (1d8+4/×3) or
. . mithral starknife +9 (1d8+4/×3)
Special Attacks blessings 6/day (Good: holy strike, Luck: lucky presence), channel positive energy 3/day (DC 17, 2d6), fervor 7/day (2d6), sacred weapon (1d8, +1, 7 rounds/day)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 7th; concentration +9)
. . 3/day—daylight
Warpriest Spells Prepared (CL 7th; concentration +11)
. . 3rd—invisibility purge, communal resist energy[UC]
. . 2nd—communal protection from evil[UC], returning weapon[UC], shield other, zone of truth (DC 16)
. . 1st—bless, detect undead, liberating command[UC], shield of faith, sun metal[UC] (DC 15)
. . 0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, guidance, purify food and drink (DC 14), stabilize
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 14
Base Atk +5; CMB +7; CMD 19
Feats Angelic Blood[ARG], Angelic Flesh (brazen)[ARG], Dazzling Display, Heavenly Radiance[ARG], Heavenly Radiance[ARG], Weapon Focus (starknife), Weapon Specialization (starknife)
Traits adrift, rostlander, unscathed
Skills Acrobatics -2 (-6 to jump), Climb +2, Diplomacy +8, Handle Animal +6, Heal +8, Intimidate +12, Knowledge (engineering) +5, Knowledge (religion) +7, Perception +7, Ride +2, Sense Motive +8, Spellcraft +5, Survival +8, Swim +2; Racial Modifiers +2 Diplomacy, +2 Perception
Languages Celestial, Common, Sylvan
SQ zealous
Other Gear mithral full plate, darkwood wooden snarlshield, adamantine starknife, mithral starknife, mwk cold iron starknife, blinkback belt[UE], 276 pp, 7 gp
Special Abilities
Angelic Blood +2 saves vs. evil effects, to stabilize while dying, and 1 damage to evil or undead if bleeding.
Angelic Flesh (Brazen) +2 saves vs. fire effects.
Blessings (6/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Dazzling Display (Starknife) Intimidate check to demoralize can affect those within 30' who see you.
Energy Resistance, Acid (7) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Energy Resistance, Cold (7) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (7) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Energy Resistance, Fire (7) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Fervor (2d6, 7/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Heavenly Radiance (Wake of Light, 3/day) Gain an additional use of daylight sla, and also the ability to use another chosen spell in place of it.
Heavenly Radiance (Wandering Star Motes, 3/day) Gain an additional use of daylight sla, and also the ability to use another chosen spell in place of it.
Sacred Armor +1 (7 minutes/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant armor enhancement bonus or certain powers. Use 1 fervor as free action to also activate Sacred weapon.
Sacred Weapon +1 (7 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon enhancement bonus or certain powers.
Warpriest Channel Positive Energy 2d6 (3/day, DC 17) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Zealous -5 to hit and +2 to damage on your first attack against a target of a different religion than you

I'm sure it will not compete for the most completely super optimized power gaming build. But I don’t think that is very often necessary. I usually find my groups do better with reasonably competent builds. If I optimize too much, it throws things off with the other members of the party.

So does this seem reasonably competent?

Playing through the Ruins of Azlant AP. Please no spoilers!

Replacing my 4th level PC. Group has slayer, unchained rogue, gunslinger, sorcerer, and evocation wizard. The slayer, rogue, and especially gunslinger consistently provide medium to high damage output. The sorcerer and wizard should eventually really amp up the DPR. Don't really have anyone to stand and take damage. Also have little to no healing, condition removal, or divine spell casting.

In game, it is fairly reasonable that the tribe of Monkey Goblins we befriended could decide to send someone. So it fits the campaign well.

Most of the group is pretty new to PF and building characters. So I have to be careful to not optimize beyond their ability to keep up. So rather than a poor build, I'm aiming to optimize a non-optimal concept. Monkey Goblins are not optimal for either tank or divine casters.

So I'm thinking a fairly durable druid or warpriest. Warpriest is more durable especially with the self healing. Druid is a better caster and the eventual wildshape will certainly help with any possible underwater or airborne stuff that comes up.

]We've already been dealing with Locathah, Gillmen, Sahaugin, Stryx, and group of aquatic Faceless Stalkers.

I don't have as much experience with tanks or divine casters. So what do you think? Which would you chose and how would you build it?

Looking at an investigator for a Kingmaker AP run.
Below is my first run at it. Needs some help. Obviously good at skill, but I think it is lacking in combat capability.

Nothing is really set about the build yet. Just want a very solid skill monkey, that is at least halfway decent in combat.

What would you suggest?

Miles Naismith Vorkosigan:

Male ratfolk investigator (empiricist) 3 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 100, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3 231)
NG Small humanoid (ratfolk)
Hero Points 1
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +11
AC 18, touch 14, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 24 (3d8+6)
Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +4 (+1 trait bonus vs. mind-affecting effects)
Defensive Abilities trap sense +1; Resist issian
Speed 20 ft.
Melee mwk rapier +7 (1d4+1/18-20) or
. . mwk tailblade +7 (1d2+1)
Special Attacks swarming
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +6)
. . 1st—adhesive spittle[ACG] (DC 14), blurred movement[ACG], reduce person (DC 14), shield
Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha 12
Base Atk +2; CMB +2; CMD 15
Feats Focused Inspiration[ACG], Weapon Finesse
Traits careful combatant, issian, pragmatic activator
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+2 to jump), Bluff +1 (-1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Climb +4, Diplomacy +1 (+3 to gather information (You can use your Intelligence Modifier instead of Charisma), -1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Disable Device +11, Disguise +1 (-1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Escape Artist +6, Fly +5, Intimidate +1 (-1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Knowledge (arcana) +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (engineering) +8, Knowledge (geography) +7, Knowledge (history) +7, Knowledge (local) +9, Knowledge (nature) +7, Knowledge (nobility) +8, Knowledge (planes) +7, Knowledge (religion) +7, Perception +11, Sense Motive +7, Spellcraft +7, Stealth +12, Use Magic Device +11; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, +2 Use Magic Device
Languages Aklo, Common, Goblin, Undercommon
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +3), ceaseless observation, hero points, inspiration (4/day), investigator talent (trap spotter), keen recollection, rodent empathy, trapfinding +1, vain
Other Gear mwk chain shirt, mwk rapier, mwk tailblade[ARG], investigator starting formula book, masterwork thieves' tools
Special Abilities
Alchemy +3 (Su) +3 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Ceaseless Observation (Ex) Use INT instead of CHA for gather information (+2)
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Focused Inspiration (Stealth, Disable Device) Roll 2d8 (or 2d10 if normally rolling d8) when adding inspiration to selected skills.
Hero Points Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Inspiration (+1d6, 4/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Keen Recollection At 3rd level, an investigator can attempt all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
Rodent Empathy Ratfolk gain a +4 racial bonus on Handle Animal checks made to influence rodents.
Swarming (Ex) Can share a square with another with swarming, if both att the same foe, he is flanked.
Trap Sense +1 (Ex) +1 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Trap Spotter (Ex) Whenever you come within 10' of a trap, the GM secretly rolls for you to find it.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Vain -2 to Cha checks for 24h after failing an opposed Cha check

Thinking of joining a group with a wildblooded / crossblodded sorcerer with the sylvan and sage bloodlines. Sylvan to mesh well with the group and sage to provide some much needed skill points.

As part of that, I am considering performing the 'face' party role.
There is the traits Student of Philosophy or Clever Wordplay to get diplomacy to use intelligence instead of charisma.

There are also traits like Influence to make it a class skill.

Unfortunately, all that I have found so far are social traits. So I can't take 2 of them.
Is there some way to both have it as a class skill and use intelligence instead of charisma?

I would rather not multiclass this character if I don't have to do so.

The Concordance

No Spoilers Please!

I have a PFS 1 PC. He is an Oread Warpriest. He will be getting a 'particular' item. As soon as he can afford it. Due to having that item, I would like to have him run through scenarios that are applicable to that item.

So I would like some of your favorite scenarios (or PFS legal modules and portions of AP's) that feature primarily the Serpentfolk; but also monstrous humanoids and any serpentine creatures.
They could feature them as just a story plot item (where he is developing his background feelings for the foe).
Allies that he has to work through his distrust of them.
Or especially fine, as opponents that he has to overcome (or at least survive).

You don't need to spoil any of them, I just want to put together a list of what I'm going to try to put together for his career.

All righty now. Got some questions about the rules, spells, char build, and game play.I'm pretty dang new to PF2. So far, I'm only playing PFS, but the questions are for more than just PFS since I figure my home groups will eventually want to switch to PF2 if it works as well as we hope.In no particular order:
01) A caster can only use the 'Sustain' action on a single spell at a time. Correct? I'm hearing different opinions on this.
02) It is difficult to be a primarily 'buff' caster like in PF1 since most of the buff spells have to be sustained. Correct?
03) Can usually run all over the battlefield since most opponents do not have a reaction to make attacks of opportunity from moving through threatened squares. Correct? Seems like that will make it difficult to protect the squishy casters.
04) All the 'performance' and 'craft' skills have been combined. So if you have a +8 in performance, you are just as good at singing as playing the harp. Correct? Similar for the climb, fly, and swim combined to athletics.
05) Conversely, the general knowledge skills have been expanded almost infinitely, since you there is a Lore for everything individually. Correct?
06) The monster knowledge skills are now covered by arcana, nature, occultism, and religion. Sometimes the GM may let you use a lore skill if you can give a reason it should apply. Correct?
07) I don't have a good handle on the 'Society' skill. For what is it actually used?
08) What is the difference between low-, standard-, and high-grade magic items?
09) The special material versions of weapons and armor are better (and more necessary) than PF1 but also more expensive to purchase (in terms of the cash you get). Correct?
10) PF2 does not have quite the same things as item slots. However, if an item says "worn gloves" then you can't have another in use that also says "worn gloves" So effectively, it is an item slot. Correct?

That's what I can think of so far. I'm sure I will have more later.

I'm looking to make PF2 skill monkey. Most particularly the skills associated with knowing things more than skill for making friends or building things. A PC that knows things about creatures and people encountered, what the Gaterwobbler family is famous for growing on their farms, why Sir Clanks ancestors hate the Saerenites, etc...

Usually the first thing that gets suggested is the intelligence caster wizard. However, they actually don't get very many skills and I personally find dealing with filling up my spellbook (instead of helpful gear) to be frustrating.

So moving on.

Bard with the enigma muse feat of Bardic Lore seems just about ideal. However, there is this "If you have legendary proficiency in Occultism, you gain expert proficiency in Bardic Lore, but you can't increase your proficiency in Bardic Lore by any other means." Sounds like it will be great in early game, but by mid game and later it will be falling behind. But, it only says you can't increase the proficiency. Are there other things you can get, do, take to improve your skill checks in Bardic Lore that I am missing? Maybe that would keep it from falling too far behind.

Rogue will start with around 10 + intelligence modifier skills. And holy carp! They get a skill feat and a skill increase every level. Even if you say that to function as a rogue you need to keep up several physical and social skills, that is still a lot.

I know the system hasn't been out long enough to complete any major campaigns. I also know some of you have played around with mid- and high- level stuff just to see how the system works. So which do you think will work better without interfering too much in the other standard aspects of the class?

I am quite sure I can come up with either a rogue or a bard that I will be happy playing. However, I am having trouble trying to figure out which to make. Any assistance or suggestions will be much appreciated.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo)

Ok, so I have watched most of 1 scenario and played 3 with pregens (wiz, sorc, & druid). So I am embarking upon the voyage of discovery to build my first PF2 Society PC.

Naturally my only experience is at first level, so I want to check some of my observations before deciding. Maybe these change substantially at higher levels or just in other scenarios.

Skill proficiencies seem even more important than in PFS1. The pregens and built PC's rarely seem to have the needed skills.

Other than 1 combat encounter in all 4 scenarios, nearly all the difficultly was in getting high enough skill rolls to learn, build, find, or make friends. The last scenario would have been an almost guaranteed failure if we hadn't brought the druid (or maybe ranger) pregen. All of the other PC's had almost none of the necessary skills.

That is kinda leaning me toward either the bard or arcane trickster rogue for a class (since they have the most skills). With intelligence as the highest or second highest stat.

However, the rogues I have seen in action so far have been startlingly ineffective. Stealth rarely seemed to succeed. Even if it did, the advantages of surprise didn't make up for the fact that they couldn't seem to hit or do much damage. There weren't many traps or locks. Yet if there was one, the rogue couldn't deal with it.
Is that just an odd statistical blip or is the rogue really kinda hopeless?

All the above is pushing me toward bard as the most likely to be a major success contributor in PFS2.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

We may be coming into a large number of ioun stones.

Is there a limit to how many a PC can have floating around them?

Got a low level shamman trying to be a bit better at crafting wondrous items.

Does the spell Beloved of the Forge work to improve spellcraft? We had assumed it did, but now that I think more about it, I'm not so sure.

Fortune Hex - can make 2 rolls
Guidance cantrip - gives a +1 competence bonus to any check
I'm told you can make a masterwork tool to give a +2 circumstance bonus to any skill check. However, I haven't found where that is written yet. If true, I will make one for spellcraft.
Magent Prism Cracked Ioun Stone - give a +2 competence bonus to one skill.
Gloves of Elvenkind - give a +5 competence bonus to spellcraft

Just realized that, for some reason, Fox's Cunning is not on the shamman list. But I can pay for the party wizard to learn it in his spellbook.

What other spells or items can help bump up my spellcraft rolls?

Home campaign. It is not quite really an aquatic campaign. However, a noticeable portion of 'things' will take place on/under water. So most of the group is Undine or Gillman. We have a wizard Elf who will rely on spells and items to function well enough underwater. We have a rogue, slayer, and gunslinger agility combatants for consistent moderate damage. We have a wizard and sorcerer for arcane might.

What we don't have is high strength, high durability, or divine caster. Sometimes you just kinda want a chunk-of-meat PC for breaking down doors, standing toe-to-toe, and dealing big damage numbers.

A divine caster isn't mandatory, but would be a nice addition to the group. Self-healing would be good for the high durability aspect. The classic is paladin for that. However, a paladin really won't mesh with the group dynamic we have. War priest or rage prophet would work. Or just skip the casting and just go barbarian and/or fighter.

I think I'm really wanting a fairly high strength character this time. But I can't think of any aquatic/amphibious races with a bonus to strength. I could just go with one that doesn't have a penalty to strength. What seems like a high strength and/or high durability amphibious race?

I suppose I could just go with a high strength druid and wild shape for watery times.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Liberty's Edge

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One of my friends switched to D&D 5thEd not too long ago. His primary reason was all the buff and de-buff garbage in PF. I never really understood it. That is some of my favorite parts of the game. But I did learn that it can get out of hand. I was at a PFS game couple of weeks ago. None of us brought a straight damage dealer or SoD caster. Conditions, buffs, and de-buffs galore.

This guy is grappled and blind. That guy is staggered and sickened. The one over there is sickened and prone. The last one is prone, disarmed, and stunned. Etc...
Everyone has prayer, bless, haste, blessings of fervor. The two of you have bulls strength. I have shield and monstrous physique I. She has barkskin and will change into and elemental in the 3rd round. That will lose her armor bonus so she also has mage armor for when her armor goes away. He also has stoneskin and blur. Etc...

The fights really weren't all that inherently complex. But after the buffs, de-buffs, and conditions it was taking forever to figure out actions, to hit, and damages. Don't get me wrong. It isn't that it was ineffective, it was just such a muddled pain to figure out. And we were all quite sure we got a bunch of them wrong in both directions.

So although I absolutely love to stack a bunch of de-buffs onto the bad guy so he seems completely incompetent or buffs onto my allies until they are invincible, from now on I'm going to try to take it a bit easier on the GM. Just one or 2 good buffs or de-buffs, then have a way to just eliminate the opposition.

I generally try to keep a backup PC ready in case my current PC takes a permanent dirt nap. Little more emphasis this time because my current PC is a bit more squishy than I realized and has come extremely close to dying a couple of times. Not complaining, I'm having fun just squeaking by all the time. But it is a possibility.

In out current campaign, it is more likely that one of our newly allied monkey goblins could decide to travel with us rather than a new standard PC show up from no where. Plus I like making weird characters. {shrug}

The kicker is that the other PC's all martial characters with no spells and almost nothing in the way of knowledge or social skills. Neither do they have the high intelligence to get lots of skill points and easily be good at knowledge skills.

My current character is a waves shaman with the possessed archetype. He is a good diplomat and has some knowledge skills. The casting class that would best fit monkey goblins is shaman, but I really hate to have my replacement PC's be anything like the previous ones. So unless I could come up with a build that plays completely different, I would rather not have a shaman.

So, given all that...
What are some suggestions for a build that can provide at least some knowledge skills, some social skills, maybe some spell casting, and still fits with the theme of the primitive monkey goblins.

My first thought is skald, but I thought I'd see if you folks can think of anything else that fits.

I'm quite sure that most of this is the result of too little slumber time and too much allergy medicine. But since I still can't sleep, you get to share my thoughts. Huzzah!

A] What is the rules legal biggest animal companion you can get? I just love the thought of some little tiny pixie or something riding around hiding in the neck spines on top of this hugantic dire linorm or whatever (it will of course have to have a greater dire collar). Then storing it in 'hosteling' armor to pull out for some fight inside the formal-stuffy parliament building.

B] Why do some players constantly try to have their PC be good at what they made them to be bad at? Know a guy that made an evocation focused wizard. Not my favorite type of PC, but ok they are decent. He is constantly engaging the enemy with his rapier. And then getting upset when he almost dies. WTF?!?

C] Does the feat intimidating prowess seem stupid to you like it does to me? I think that without any significant effort, a big ferociously powerful ettin should be loads more intimidating than a scrawny little halfling.

D] I also think shields should be loads more effective vs. ranged attacks. In real life large shields were supposedly more effective than even plate armor against arrows and bolts.

E] Why do players so enjoy completely derailing the GM's entire campaign? I mean heck, I'm one of those players and I still don't know why it's so much fun to wreck all his work. Once we so totally demolished a storyline that the GM had to take a break for a couple of weeks to try and figure out what to do next. (I felt bad for that one.)

F] Also I really dislike it when Real Life gets in the way of my game life. Not so much scheduling (though some of that) but attitude. If I've had a really suck-ish week of work, I usually find I can't role play my PC correctly. Then I get irritated that I'm playing him 'wrong.' Now my suck-ish week is ruining my game. Grr...

G] Does the whole trope of most adventures seem off to you? The baron puts up a flier in a bar trying to hire random heroes to fix his piddly little problems and willing to pay more than the entire town is worth for it. Seriously? I've never seen a posting for a government job in any bar I have visited. I don't think I would classify any of the patrons (including me) as heroes either.

H] Is anyone else bothered by the fact that some really basic standard troop tactics take things like 5 levels worth of feats and/or specific special class archetypes to perform even halfway decently? Shield walls, phalanx formations, or even just an infantry guy to carry a shield and protect an archer.

I] Why would a wizard ever make someone a +1 sword? I would make him a wand that could be activated by anyone that knows the magic word. Then he can use it on his sword, bow, or lance. Plus he has to come back and buy another when it runs out.

J] It really seems like there should be some way to make a kool-fun-effective PC that uses the spiked chain, but I've never been able to come up with one I liked.

K] To prove how borked the system is, I once had my high level wizard kill a rhino with his fists. No magic other than healing wands. Now how does that make any sense?

L] Was thinking about a PC that pretty much only used things like hour/level buffs and maybe a few extended 10 minute/level buffs as pretty much his only spell casting. Then he would just use weapons like any other martial. Eldritch knight, cleric, and druid all seem like they might have some possibilities toward this. Have you tried it?

Well, I think I'm going to take another stab at getting some shut eye time. If I still can't sleep, I will probably be back later with some more wierd ideas. Feel free to leave your responses or your own disconnected thoughts.

Ok, so I know it's not original. A friend wants to run the hulk. Now we are aware that many of the proposed 'Hulk' builds are based on brawler and alchemist mutagen.

However, in the comics the Hulk often uses people to hit other people and throw them at yet more people. So he wants to concentrate on the Body Bludgeon and Hurling rage powers. Those require 10 and 12 levels of barbarian (or primalist bloodrager). If you know of another way to get those powers or a Hulk-ish way to get the same effects, we're open to suggestions.

Abyssal bloodrager will give natural attacks and size increase.

Here is my first rough draft of the build at level 12.

raging Hulk bloodrager:

Half-orc bloodrager (primalist, rageshaper, untouchable rager) 12 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 15, 84, 84, 85)
CG Large humanoid (human, orc)
Hero Points 1
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +15
AC 15, touch 9, flat-footed 15 (+6 armor, +2 deflection, -2 rage, -1 size)
hp 148 (12d10+72)
Fort +19, Ref +9, Will +13
Defensive Abilities uncanny dodge; DR 2/—; SR 22
Speed 40 ft. (30 ft. in armor)
Melee +1 adamantine greataxe +18/+13/+8 (3d6+28/×3 plus 2d6 on charge) or
. . bite +19 (1d6+20 plus 2d6 on charge), 2 claws +19 (3d6+20 plus 1d6 fire and 1d6 fire and 2d6 on charge)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks claws, greater bloodrage (41 rounds/day)
Str 31, Dex 10, Con 22, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +12; CMB +19 (+21 bull rush, +23 grapple, +22 sunder); CMD 33 (36 vs. bull rush, 35 vs. grapple, 34 vs. overrun, 35 vs. sunder)
Feats Body Shield[UC], Chokehold[UC], Dirty Fighting, Greater Grapple, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Grapple, Improved Sunder, Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack
Traits blood of giants, indomitable faith, mathematical prodigy
Skills Acrobatics +15, Climb +25, Craft (clockwork) +18, Intimidate +25, Knowledge (arcana) +13, Knowledge (engineering) +17, Knowledge (local) +2, Perception +15, Ride +4, Survival +4, Swim +14; Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Giant, Orc
SQ bestial aspect, bestial aspect, demonic bulk, doubt, fast movement, furious transformation, hero points, orc blood, rage powers (body bludgeon[UC], hurling[APG], lesser hurling[APG], greater hurling[APG])
Combat Gear potion of cure serious wounds; Other Gear rhino hide, +1 adamantine greataxe, belt of mighty hurling, lesser[UE], boots of the cat[UE], cloak of resistance +5, furious amulet of mighty fists, ring of protection +2, robe of arcane heritage[APG], traveler's any-tool[UE], 281 pp, 5 gp
Special Abilities
Bestial Aspect (+10' polymorphed movement) (Su) Increase dam of nat attacks & +10 ft. to movement types granted by polymorph spell.
Bestial Aspect (increased polymorphed damage) (Su) Increase dam of nat attack granted by polymorph spell.
Bloodrage (41 rounds/day) (Su) +6 Str, +6 Con, +3 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Body Bludgeon (Ex) Use pinned foe as improvised weapon while raging.
Body Shield Gain cover against attacks while grappling
Chokehold May pin grappled opponent one size category larger than you
Damage Reduction (2/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Demonic Bulk (Su) When entering bloodrage, can choose to increase size by one category (as enlarge person).
Dirty Fighting Forgo flanking bonus to make combat maneuver not provoke attack of op.
Doubt -4 for an hour on any skill or ability check after you fail that type of check
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Flaming Claws (Su) 2 Magic Claw attacks deal 1d8 damage + 1d6 fire
Furious Transformation (Su) Extend polymorph spells while bloodraging with a concentration check.
Greater Grapple Maintaining a grapple is a move action, allowing you to make 2 checks a round.
Hero Points Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Hurling, Greater (Ex) Throw large objects while raging.
Improved Bull Rush You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when bull rushing.
Improved Grapple You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when grappling a foe.
Improved Sunder You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when sundering.
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Spell Resistance (22) You have Spell Resistance.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed.

So what are your thoughts, concerns, suggestions?

So I'm looking into using grappling and the hurling rage powers to throw creatures at other creatures.

Damage as a falling object. Half for not solid.

So a medium creature would be 3d6 / 2.
Does the strength and power attack damage also get halved?

1) Dire Collar on an AC. This is activated by the master, correct?
2) Is it a standard action?
3) Can an AC be taught a trick to activate its own dire collar or drink a buff potion?
4) A different Tiefling PC wants to know if he can wear and activate a dire collar since he can't use a potion of enlarge person. Does that work?

So I was kinda thinking about making a melee character that used the Dimensional feat chain to get to and clobber the squishies that think they are protected. Then jump away again.

Neat concept, but I'm getting hung up on the very first requirement. Abundant Step class feature or the ability to cast Dimension Door.

Monk 12, Magus 10, Summoner 7, ...

I don't really want a concept that only comes online in the last 1/3 of the campaign and Summoner isn't exactly a melee chassis.

Is there a better way to do this that I am forgetting?

Ok, in a 5th Ed game, I am playing a compulsively dishonest character. Not only that, he is finally getting good at being dishonest. At first there were some problems caused by his not being capable of actually fooling people. I am having a blast with the character. So that got me thinking of a similar concept in PF. (This highlights one of the things I like better about PF. You can build a character to actually be able to use a skill consistently very good. Not just when you happen to roll pretty decent.)

Now I had a build for this based on the bard. However, I’ve never actually played it because I honestly don’t really like the bard class. Don’t want to go into the details, but I just haven’t ever been happy with the results when I tried it. But along comes the Occult book and now there is another way to be excellent at dishonesty. Behold the Mesmerist! Lying to the universe.

So I started looking at all the things I can stack up to be excellent at dishonest. Telling lies, forgery, disguise, etc… I want to try and trick my way past difficulties whenever possible. Yet still be able to function when that isn’t.

Below is my initial build. As a brand new first level, he already has a +16 bluff. At level 10, it is up to +47 without casting any spells, using limited application equipment, situational modifiers, or anything else. It just goes up from there.

Not yet sure if this will be for PFS or a home campaign. (Mostly depends on if my current home game shaman survives.) So I will build as PFS legal. I can always add in other options if he ends up in a home campaign.


Male halfling mesmerist 10 (Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures 38)
CG Small humanoid (halfling)
Init +3; Senses Perception +14 (+16 vs. magic traps)
AC 18, touch 14, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 63 (10d8+10)
Fort +9, Ref +15, Will +19; +2 vs. fear
Speed 20 ft.
Melee cestus +5/+0 (1d3-3/19-20)
Ranged +1 mithral elder thing dart gun +10/+10/+5 (1d3+1/19-20)
Special Attacks bold stares (psychic inception[OA], susceptability[OA]), hypnotic stare (-3), manifold tricks (3 tricks), mental potency (+2), mesmerist tricks 16/day (compel alactrity, mask misery, mesmeric mirror, psychosomatic surge, reflection of weakness [DC 23], spectral smoke), painful stare (+5 or +3d6+5)
Mesmerist Spells Known (CL 10th; concentration +18)
. . 4th (3/day)—dimension door, greater forbid action[UM] (DC 24)
. . 3rd (5/day)—clairaudience/clairvoyance, confusion (DC 23), displacement, glibness
. . 2nd (6/day)—alter self, blindness/deafness (DC 20), blistering invective[UC] (DC 20), blur, glitterdust (DC 20)
. . 1st (7/day)—burst of adrenaline[OA], heightened awareness[ACG], hideous laughter (DC 21), ray of enfeeblement (DC 19), unnatural lust[UM] (DC 21)
. . 0 (at will)—dancing lights, detect psychic significance[OA], ghost sound (DC 18), haunted fey aspect[UC], message, prestidigitation
Str 5, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 26
Base Atk +7; CMB +3; CMD 16
Feats Deceitful, Greater Spell Focus (enchantment), Skill Focus (Bluff), Spell Focus (enchantment), Voice Of The Sibyl[UM]
Traits criminal, pesh addict (katapesh)
Skills Acrobatics +3 (-1 to jump), Appraise +5, Bluff +47 (+49 to imitate seances, spirit writing, or other occult practices), Diplomacy +13 (+15 vs. geniekind), Disable Device +19 (+21 vs. magic traps, +15 to checks if more than five feet away from device), Disguise +14, Escape Artist +16 (+18 to imitate seances, spirit writing, or other occult practices), Intimidate +21, Knowledge (arcana) +5 (+7 to understand the nature and ways of dragons), Knowledge (dungeoneering) +5 (+7 while navigate dungeons beneath the Cairnlands' siege castles, +7 to navigate the tunnels of the Darklands and identify Darklands natives), Knowledge (history) +5 (+7 vs. Azlant, +7 to learn about Thassilonian artifacts), Knowledge (local) +6 (+8 to identify drow and their customs, weaknesses, and tactics), Knowledge (nobility) +5, Knowledge (religion) +5, Linguistics +14 (+16 to learn about Azlanti sentence construction and idioms), Perception +14 (+16 vs. magic traps), Perform (act) +12, Sense Motive +4 (+6 to distinguish between true statements and exaggeration regarding esoteric topics), Sleight of Hand +9 (+11 to imitate seances, spirit writing, or other occult practices), Spellcraft +5, Stealth +16, Survival -1 (+1 to navigate Jungles of Mwangi Expanse, +1 to notice and follow tracks in Arctic environments), Use Magic Device +12; Racial Modifiers +2 Bluff, +2 Perception, +2 Sleight of Hand
Languages Common, Halfling, Hallit, Kelish, Osiriani, Polyglot, Shadowtongue, Shoanti, Skald, Tien, Undercommon, Varisian, Vudrani
SQ automatic writing (linguistics), consummate liar +5, halfling mesmerist, hypnotism (diplomacy), manifestation points, ability scores, phrenology (knowledge [arcana]), prognostication (sense motive), psychometry (appraise), read aura (perception), touch treatment 11/day (Greater)
Combat Gear cold iron repeating crossbow bolts (30), potion of cure serious wounds; Other Gear +1 burdenless glamered shadow slick leaf armor[ISWG], +1 mithral elder thing dart gun with 20 bolts, cestus[APG], charlatan's symbol, cloak of resistance +4, cups of rapport[ACG], eyes of the liar, false coin[OA], handy haversack, headband of alluring charisma +4, honeytongue elixir, knight's pennon of parley[APG], angel's trumpet, blue book[UE], book of letters[UE], fashionable accessories, fraudulent medium's kit[OA], harrow mat, masterwork thieves' tools, pathfinder chronicle[ISWG], pathfinder chronicle[ISWG], pathfinder chronicle[ISWG], pathfinder chronicle[ISWG], pathfinder chronicle[ISWG], pathfinder chronicle[ISWG], pathfinder chronicles, volume 1, pathfinder chronicles, volume 11, pathfinder chronicles, volume 14, pathfinder chronicles, volume 2, pathfinder chronicles, volume 27, pathfinder chronicles, volume 44, poison in the water, sugar glass bottle[ACG], thieves' tool extenders, mithral, 2 pp, 5 gp
Special Abilities
+3 to the bonus gained from your seance boon (but not shared seance boons) Increase the number of mesmerist tricks the mesmerist can use per day by 1/3.
Automatic Writing (Linguistics, 1/week) You can produce mysterious writing that pertains to the immediate future.
Consummate Liar +5 Counts as Combat Expertise for some feats.
Fearless +2 bonus to save vs. fear (stacks with halfling luck).
Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) +1 to the Save DC of spells from one school.
Hypnotic Stare (-3, 30 feet) (Su) As swift action, target creature takes penalty on Will saves.
Hypnotism (Diplomacy, 1/day) Use power of suggestion to alter subject's mind or recover memories.
Manifestation Points, Ability Scores ([none], 25/psychic duel) Every combatant begins a psychic duel with a pool of MP equal to the combatant’s HD + the average of her Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. As a free action, a combatant can draw from this pool to generate MP. A combatant who draws any numb
Manifold Tricks (Su) You can have mulitple tricks implanted at once.
Mental Potency (+2) (Ex) Increase HD limit and total HD of enchantment or illusion spells by 1.
Mesmerist Tricks (200 feet, 16/day) (Su) Implant hypnotic bond with allies. granting edge vs. foes.
Painful Stare (+5 or +3d6+5, 1/round) (Su) As a free action, hyp. stare target takes extra precision dam from a hit.
Phrenology (Knowledge [Arcana], 1/day) Examine a creature's skull to learn it's psychological attributes.
Prognostication (Sense Motive, 1/day) You are skilled in means of folk divination.
Psychic Inception (Su) Hypnotic stare can affect creatures that are mindless or immune to mind-affecting effects.
Psychometry (Appraise, 1/day) Read the psychic impressions left on objects or in places.
Read Aura (Perception, 1/day) Read the psychic impressions left on objects or in places.
Spell Focus (Enchantment) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Susceptability (Su) Hyp. stare applies to Sense Motive vs. Bluff, reduces DC of Diplo & Intim checks vs. target.
Touch Treatment (Greater, 11/day) (Su) Remove certain conditions from creature touched.
Voice of the Sibyl Gain bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Perform (oratory) checks

Thoughts, comments, questions, concerns, or suggestions?

Ok, so since I like just seeing what can be done, I play around with weird things to see what happens. Kinda tumbled into a few odd synergies a while ago. I’m looking to flesh it out into a more complete concept. Ratfolk magus riding a giant flea mauler familiar. I don’t believe this to be tremendously optimized or overpowering. I just find the thought of a rat riding a flea into battle uproariously funny.

Note: Haven’t decided yet if this will be a PFS or home game character.

Giant Flea familiar – Uncanny Leap – can jump 120’ as a charge.
Giant Flea familiar has a +20 to jump checks.
Giant Flea is only allowed for a witch.
Vermin are immune to mind affecting effects. (Often the most dangerous for mounts.)
Vermin familiars have the belt and eyes slot only.
Familiar gets 1 feat.
Mauler familiar archetype – Battle Form – can change into a medium creature at will and stay that way as long as desired.
A small creature can ride a medium creature.
Ratfolk are small.
A lance ‘can’ be used as two-handed martial reach weapon if the wielder is not mounted.

Take 1 level of beastblade magus.
Take 1 level of beast-bonded witch. Chose a giant flea familiar and give it the escape route teamwork feat.
Remaining levels are magus (unless I decide to throw a couple level of cavalier or something in there).
At 3rd level magus, take the Familiar arcana.

1) escape route teamwork feat
3) mounted combat
5) weapon focus lance

From level 2 onward, I can ride all around the battlefield. Generating zero AoO due to movement since we both have escape route and all spaces we move through will be adjacent to both of us.
A 120’ charge should let me charge just about anyone.
The +20 to jump checks should make it so I can jump over a line of medium creatures if there isn’t an open spot to move through.
When mounted, the lance is a 1 handed weapon which will allow me to cast my magus spells.

I thought there was a way to give more feats to your familiar, but I can’t find it. I really wanted to give it the Improved Spell Sharing teamwork feat. If that isn’t possible, then I will take the non-teamwork version of the same name at 11th level so we can both have the same buffs going.


Male ratfolk magus (beastblade) 4/witch (beast-bonded) 1 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Familiar Folio 8, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 65, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3 231, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 9, 83)
N Small humanoid (ratfolk)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +9
AC 19, touch 14, flat-footed 16 (+5 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 41 (5 HD; 1d6+4d8+14)
Fort +7 (+3 vs. disease), Ref +5, Will +8
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 adamantine lance +8 (1d6+4/×3) or
. . mwk cold iron tailblade +7 (1d2+2) or
. . mwk silver cestus +7 (1d3+2/19-20)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with +1 adamantine lance)
Special Attacks arcane pool (+1, 5 points), hex (familiar feat), magus arcana (familiar[UM]), spell combat, spellstrike, swarming
Magus (Beastblade) Spells Prepared (CL 4th; concentration +7)
. . 2nd—blur, stone call[APG]
. . 1st—chill touch (DC 14), long arm[ACG], shield, shocking grasp
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, mage hand, open/close (DC 13), prestidigitation
Witch (Beast-Bonded) Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +4)
. . 1st—command (DC 14), shield companion
. . 0 (at will)—guidance, read magic, stabilize
. . Patron Agility
Str 14, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +3; CMB +4; CMD 17
Feats Alertness, Escape Route[UC], Mauler's Endurance, Mounted Combat, Weapon Focus (lance)
Traits bladed magic, dedicated defender, indomitable faith
Skills Acrobatics +3 (-1 to jump), Appraise +4, Climb +6, Craft (weapons) +6 (+7 to craft magic or masterwork weapons), Fly +9, Handle Animal -1 (+3 to influence rodents), Intimidate +2, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (planes) +7, Linguistics +8, Perception +9, Ride +11, Sense Motive +2, Sleight of Hand +4, Spellcraft +7, Stealth +12, Swim +6, Use Magic Device +4; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, +2 Use Magic Device
Languages Aklo, Common, Cyclops, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, Necril, Orc, Undercommon
SQ paranoid, rodent empathy, tandem touch, witch's familiar (giant flea (mauler) named Skitter)
Other Gear +1 mithral chain shirt, +1 adamantine lance, mwk cold iron tailblade[ARG], mwk silver cestus[APG], cloak of resistance +1, magus starting spellbook
Special Abilities
Arcane Pool +1 (5/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Escape Route You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when moving through spaces adjacent to allies
Familiar Bonus: +3 to Fort saves vs. Disease You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Mounted Combat (1/round) Once per round you can attempt to negate a hit to your mount in combat.
Paranoid Aid Another DC 15 for attempts to help you.
Rodent Empathy Ratfolk gain a +4 racial bonus on Handle Animal checks made to influence rodents.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Speak with Familiar (Ex) You can communicate verbally with your familiar.
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Spellstrike (Su) Deliver touch spells as part of a melee attack.
Swarming (Ex) Can share a square with another with swarming, if both att the same foe, he is flanked.
Tandem Touch (Su) May cast a spell while familiar holds charge for touch spell.
Witch's Familiar (Ex) Gain the services of a special familiar that stores spells.


Giant flea (mauler) (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 4 99)
N Medium magical beast (vermin)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8
AC 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+2 Dex, +3 natural)
hp 30 (1d8+1)
Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +6
Defensive Abilities improved evasion; DR 5/slashing; Immune disease, mind-affecting effects
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee bite +6 (1d6+4 plus disease)
Special Attacks bond forged in blood, disease
Str 16, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 6
Base Atk +3; CMB +6; CMD 18
Feats Escape Route[UC]
Skills Acrobatics +3 (+19 to jump), Appraise -1, Climb +4, Fly +3, Handle Animal -1, Intimidate +2, Linguistics +3, Perception +8, Ride +4, Sleight of Hand +0, Spellcraft -1, Stealth +7, Swim +4, Use Magic Device -1
SQ battle form, empathic link, uncanny leap
Special Abilities
Battle Form (Str +2, 3/day) (Su) As standard action three times a day, grow larger.
Bond Forged in Blood (Su) You cannot speak or communicate with language. Master dropping a foe grants +2 att/dam to both master and familiar for 1 rd.
Damage Reduction (5/slashing) You have Damage Reduction against all except Slashing attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Disease (DC 13) Injury; save Fort; onset 1d3 days; freq 1 day; effect 1 Con; cure 1 save
Empathic Link (Su) You have an empathic link with your master.
Escape Route You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when moving through spaces adjacent to allies
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting effects You are immune to Mind-Affecting effects.
Improved Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save; half on failed save.
Share Spells Spells with a target of "You" can be delivered by a familiar with a range of touch.
Uncanny Leap (Ex) As a full-rd action, jump up to 120 ft (counts as a charge if in a straight line).

Anything I am missing or that you think won’t work? Additional suggestions?

Which of the improved familiars has the highest intelligence and maybe even some knowledge class skills?

Group is kinda light on knowledge skills and I was thinking about getting an improved familiar anyway.

To begin, please don't spoil anything for me! I'm just looking for general opinions on what seems like it would be useful. Not specifics of the AP.

Going to be starting Ruins of Azlant Sunday. We thought it was going to be more people, but it looks like it just may be the 3 of us as players. At least for a while.

We have:
Aquatic Tengu (that a penguin?) melee slayer
Merfolk gunslinger (yeah I know, but the GM is pretty permissive and they can make it work somehow) using revolver

When I thought we had others coming, I was going to be a Wyrwood Empiricist Investigator for piles of skill points. However, with just the three of us and no casters, I feel Like I should probably be more of a caster than the investigator.

Arcanist would get pretty decent skill points just because of high intelligence. Could eventually get halfway decent as the Face by just putting lots of points into social skills, if doesn't dump charisma. But pretty squishy for a 3 person party. Could easily get a familiar for a scout if the slayer isn't up for it.

Druid would provide another meat shield. Full caster with most/many of the condition recovery spells on the list. Much less squishy. Don't usually have lots of skills and aren't really known for being face characters.

Those were my 2 leading thoughts for a full caster. I don't know, what do you think? Other suggestions?

Might be joining a semi-newbie group. They are not optimizing masters, so this is not a power build since I don't want to eclipse anyone. But I still want it to be at least fairly effective and fun to play. I'm told the group is moderately balanced and there is no super critical shortage of any particular capabilities.

For story reason, the GM said it would be an excellent time to introduce a Tengu PC. The party has encountered and made close alliance with a group of Tengu. I would make perfect sense for them to send someone to accompany the group. So... Tengu champion / icon / whatever.

So I started thinking it might be fun to make a character that makes as much of the Tengu possibilities as I can.

There are the Tengu feats to eventually shape change into a raven. I like that.
There is the Swordmaster rogue archetype. Seems pretty decent. Proficiency and finesse with an elven curved blade.
But it doesn't really work with the Tengu racial trait to get claw attacks. Natural attack builds can be fun and fairly effective.

There are 3 Tengu only spells. They aren't anything too special, but they are unique to Tengu. So I guess it would be good to get those into the mix if I can.

Should I get a raven familiar?
Should I build in a animal companion that is a Roc? (Pretty sure the GM would let me say it looks like a giant raven.)

Usually, I have a better idea of where I'm heading than this. But this time the only real direction in my head is to be as Tengu as possible.

Suggestions? Thoughts? Ideas? Questions? Concerns?

We were talking about the possibilities of a poisoner PC. He said it would fit great with the background theme of the campaign his group is getting ready to start. However, he's not really sure if it will work well enough to actually focus on poisons. He can go one of a few ways with the concept.
He can have a PC that gets some basic poison use as a class ability. Then just just write it into his back story, integrate it into his personality, and talk about it in character. Or...
He can make a character that really focuses on trying to make poisons as useful and effective as possible.

- There is a wide variety of poisons with varying effects.
- Sounds vicious and tends to worry players all out of proportion to the game effects. That makes if fit the theme even better.
- Different than any other character he's run before.

- Although it worries players, enemies with poisons rarely seem to actually have all that much effect (other than at low levels).
- Most poisons seem to have effects based on lowering the physical ability scores. Meaning they would be most desirable to have those effects placed on martial characters. However, those are usually the ones with the best saves vs. poisons.
- Most poisons do their work over some duration of time. Yet most groups/players focus on ending an encounter as fast as possible. Will the poisons have enough working time to be worthwhile?
- Most poisons seem to have pretty low level save DC's. Might be of some threat to mooks, but they can usually be taken out fast enough to not need the poison effects. Can the save DC's be pushed high enough to have a realistic chance on the high level threats?

What do you folks think? Have you seen it work well? What is the best build for a poisoner? Best delivery method?

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Without actually being a dragon.

Developing a character that believes himself to be the reincarnation of a famous dragon. His long term goal is to find a way to change himself 'back' into a dragon. His eventual-long term goal is to found/rescue/liberate a city and rule it as a haven for all beings to live in harmony under the benevolent rulership of the dragons who make all nice things possible. As the player, I don't actually care if either of those things happen in the campaign. They can be completely out of the scope of the campaign. But that will always be in the back of the character's mind.

He's either going to be bloodrager 1 / sorcerer 4 / dragon disciple 10 or bloodrager 4 / sorcerer 1 / dragon disciple 10. It will depend on it I think the party needs a bit more of a melee or caster presence.

In either case, he will be a switch hitter. Using claws or spells as seems most appropriate. He will consider it a personal failure if he has to resort to manufactured equipment like weapons or armor.

To represent his self-delusional nature, I plan to dump wisdom as low as possible and take Iron Will. Maybe even Improved Iron Will later.

Humans always seem (to me) to be more susceptible to the mental troubles that would make him think he was a reincarnated dragon. But Nagaji are already reptilian. What do you think?

Should I go for a Pseudo or Faerie Dragon familiar? Is it possible to get something like a Drake animal companion? Maybe a Linorm cohort? What feats should he take?

Is there actually any rules legal way to get permanently transformed into a dragon?

Silver Crusade

I am making a Medium. Both to try something new and because PFS seems like the ideal use for such a build. Since you never know who is going to sit down at a PFS table, you don’t really know what will be needed or most useful on that given day. I know several people have said that the Medium is not good enough at any of the roles to be useful, but I want to see for myself if I can make it work. Plus I don’t feel like PFS requires nearly as much ultimate optimization and stellar capabilities as many folks think it does. Certainly not as much as most of the home games I’ve played.

So my thoughts so far are:

Half-Orc for darkvision and proficiency with the greataxe. That way I can invest in a decent weapon and still use it no matter which spirit I’m channeling.

Champion {default}: exotic weapon prof is net.
Trickster: so far has always been disable device and stealth.
Archmage and Herophant have not been needed so far, we've been over supplied with clerics, warpriests, sorcerers, and arcanists. But I'm looking forward to when they will be a good choice.

Below is the basic build so far. Not sure how happy I am with it. Don't think I'm going to have as many skill points as I'd usually like for a versatile PC. I also haven't decided what feats I will add in the future. Any suggestion will be appreciated (especially if they are backed up by your experience with the class)

Nevedno de'Morcaine 30504-11:

Half-orc (mystic) medium 2 (Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures 30)
NG Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +4
AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 17 (2d8+4)
Fort +6, Ref +4, Will +5
Defensive Abilities sacred tattoo[APG]
Weaknesses taboo
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee cold iron greataxe +5 (1d12+7/×3) or
. . mwk net +6 (entangle) or
. . silver cestus +5 (1d4+6/19-20)
Ranged sling +5 (1d4+6)
Special Attacks shared seance, spirit (Champion, 1 influence)
Medium Spells Known (CL 2nd; concentration +5)
. . 0 (at will)—detect psychic significance[OA], guidance, stabilize
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16
Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 15
Feats Endurance, Spirit Focus (champion)[OA]
Traits civilized, fate's favored
Skills Acrobatics -1 (-5 to jump), Climb +1, Diplomacy +7, Knowledge (arcana) +4, Knowledge (local) +5, Perception +4, Profession (soldier) +4, Sense Motive +4, Stealth +0, Swim +1, Use Magic Device +7
Languages Common, Orc
SQ champion's prowess (net), orc blood, spirit bonus (+1 on attack rolls, non-spell damage rolls, Strength checks, Strength-based skill checks, and Fortitude saves), spirit surge 1d6
Combat Gear oil of bless weapon, oil of magic weapon, potion of cure light wounds, potion of endure elements, potion of enlarge person, wand of heightened awareness (50 charges), wand of infernal healing (49 charges), acid, alchemist's fire, alkali flask[APG], bottled lightning[UE], holy water, liquid ice[APG], vermin repellent[UE]; Other Gear chain shirt, cold iron greataxe, mwk net, silver cestus[APG], sling with 10 sling bullets, adamantine wire saw[UE], backpack, bandolier[UE], bandolier[UE], bedroll, belt pouch, chalk, earplugs[APG], fishhook, flint and steel, masterwork thieves' tools, sewing needle, signal whistle, string or twine[APG], swim fins, torch (3), trail rations (3), waterskin, whetstone, wooden holy symbol of Sarenrae, wrist sheath, spring loaded, wrist sheath, spring loaded, 83 pp, 7 sp
Special Abilities
Champion's Prowess (Net) (Su) Gain proficiencies in martial weapons and one exotic weapon.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Endurance +4 to a variety of fort saves, skill and ability checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Sacred Tattoo +1 to all saves.
Shared Seance (Su) Can share the Seance bonus with others.
Spirit (Su) A medium serves as a vessel to channel spirits—astral echoes of powerful souls from ages past that live on in myth and legend. Each day, a medium can channel a spirit through a ritual known as a seance. Seances take 1 hour to perform and require th
Spirit Bonus +1 (Su) Gain a bonus based on the type of spirit you host.
Spirit Focus (Champion) Your spirit bonus from selected legend increases by 1.
Spirit Surge 1d6 (1/round) (Su) Add a die to a failed check modified by spirit bonus, which can change it to success.
Taboo (Ex) Accept taboo for extra surge, if broken spirit gains influence and -2 to all rolls for 1 hr.

Not sure how possible this is. Friend has a concept from some book he is reading. Person warped by magic influence during the mage wars, however he is not actually a mage himself.

So he wants lots of spell-like and/or supernatural abilities, without actually being a spell caster. I don't think he even cares what the Sp or Su abilities are, he just wants as many as he can get.

The only things I could immediately think of are:
- Eldritch Heritage and VMC both give some abilities.
- A few races have a spell like ability.
- Seems like I can remember feats that give an orison as a Sp, but I'm not sure of that.
- iirc Monk and Ninja can get a fair number of Sp powered by their Ki (haven't looked at these in a long time).

Anything I'm not remembering? Other suggestions?

1) Melee with alchemical weapons. Had an opponent with a very high AC. Fairly low on spells so they started throwing alchemists fire and vials of acid. On PC has both fire and acid resist 5. Very low dex so he kept missing his throws. Wanted to know if he could just walk up and smash the vials on the opponent as a melee touch attack since he probably wouldn’t take any (or only 1) damage. I’ve never been asked that before. I was going to allow it, but the others in the group made the kill before it came to his turn again. Should that be an allowed tactic?
2) A PC is making leaping charge attacks. Special jump ability can go 40’ up. So he is going over enemies and dropping on the rear ranks. Does the feat Death From Above work with these leaping attacks.
3) Mauler familiar can be switched into battle form and back 3 times a day. Am I just missing where it says how long it can stay in battle form or is it indefinite?
4) Aasimar cleric with Channel Force. a) Does a target have to be damaged by the channel to be pushed around (ie, can I force channel anyone, not just undead)? b) How does Channel Force interact with Variant Channeling (do I only throw them half as far or the full distance)? c) What about Versatile Channeler?

Git ouwtta mi way ya big boogle or aye giv ya such a kickin!

Ok, so I've been reading some of the Diskworld books again. I'm thinking about making a Feagle. Obviously you can't ever exactly duplicate the invention of one mental universe in another. But I thought I'd see how close I can come the spirit of the Feagles and still be an effective playable build.

Most GM's won't let you play a tiny fey race. So I will b e making it with one of the more normal small races. Which one?
I think it is pretty obvious they rage.
They have some limited magic, so I'm thinking bloodrager. Fey bloodline? Does an archetype fit?
Need to get a slam or unarmed strike in their for when they 'nut' someone (serious headbutt).
Hmm... Is claymore of a falchion or greatsword. Iirc, the claymore isn't curved, so I think that makes it more of a greatsword.

What else?

Friend is frustrated because his arcanist keeps getting massively pummeled. Long story, he's in a group with a bunch of players relatively new to the game. They have not really learned to, or at least how to, protect the squishies. In my opinion, at least half the problem is the GM insisted on starting at mid-levels with a bunch of noobies. Anyway, he apparently spends the first half of most fights casting defense and evasion spells just to stay alive. By the time he goes on the offense, things are mostly under control.

So he was thinking about taking the Staff-Like Wand discovery (he already has a bunch of looted wands in his bandoleers) wearing Folding Plate and carrying a tower shield. He doesn't really care much about a bunch penalties to hit or skill checks. He could memorize mostly spells without somatic components for combat or utility spells for out of combat.

Will this actually work out halfway decently? Have you seen it attempted?

Well, I've got a kinda personality worked out for this guy. He doesn't animate undead, because that would be just wrong. Everyone knows that. But well... If someone else has already animated them, it would be wasteful to not make as much use of them as possible before destroying them.

In my experience, undead seem to be one of the most common opponent types in PF games. Even if they are not a focus of the campaign, they almost always pop up now and then. They are one of the most classic bad guys at all levels.

Also, the school of necromancy has some of the most interesting (in my opinion) attack spells. Enfeeblement, chill touch, enervation, bestow curse, blindness, etc... There are lots of ways to inflict energy or weapon damage. But not nearly as many ways to give an opponent all the conditions in the necromancy school.

A lot of groups will not work well with an animating necromancer. I can understand that form the ick factor if nothing else. But I think I can make the case of using up the ones that are already existing on suicide tasks. When there aren't any around, why then I have the whole necromancy school of debuffs.

Does this work out ok in actual practice? Have you tried it or seen it done?

Haven't even started on a build yet. I prefer arcane over divine, but not completely opposed to divine. Any recommendations?

I've seen a couple and played one PC that is a small character on medium mount. That way there aren't nearly as many cases where the mount can not be used due to the space requirements.

I've seen a halfling on a dog and a grippli on a geko (this was hilarious). Both lance builds. Mine was a halfling on giant wasp. Mounted flying sling-staff ranged attacker. All were reasonably successful. I've been trying to think of a new mounted build. I was considering a gnome on an elephant and just figuring out how to deal with not being able to take my elephant everywhere.

I recently came across something that just now made a connection to my vague thoughts on a mounted build. The giant flea familiar can make a 120' leaping charge attack. A mauler familiar in combat form is medium sized.

I could make a lance charge from 120' distance, leaping over anyone in the way. That's before any buffs like haste, expeditious retreat, longstrider, etc...

Holy chopsticks batman! That would be amazing!

Seems like a ratfolk or goblin would be most appropriate for a giant flea mauler familiar. Could always do Eldritch Guardian for a martial class with a familiar. But a magus can get a familiar and might be more fun since I could then add a spell strike on that lance charge attack. Sheesh! Have you seen anything like this? Does it seem like it would work pretty good to you?

So I usually don't make absolutely gear depedant builds. But we have been discussing the possibilities with the Conductive enhancement.
He was thinking about adding it to a weapon for his current PC that has a touch energy damage 6 times a day that he never uses. But 3 times a day for a d6 of damage isn't worth the cost.

However, what if your build has a bunch of those spell like or super natural abilities?!? Especially if they aren't just a minor d6 of energy damage. How many can you get in one character build?
Several sorcerer bloodlines have a touch attack like laughing touch or grave touch. I can't remember if any have more than one.
Alchemists have bombs. (Wow!)
Some oracle revelations are touch attacks.
Both magus and arcanist have exploits for an energy attack.
Warpriest lay on hands.
Don't Suli get an energy attack?

So if you build as one class, VMC another, eldritch heritage a bloodline, with the suli race - you should be able to add a conductive rider effect on almost every round of serious combats in a given day.

Bonus points if it is one of the ways to be immune to disease so you can use a iridium weapon and give leprosy.

What do you think, how many decent abilities can we stack onto one PC?

There is a particular heavy flail available on one of the PFS chronicle sheets. I won't go into any details on it so I don't spoil the surprise if you haven't encountered it yet. I am considering making PC to take advantage of that item.

My first intention was to make a fighter weapon master. It does make a PC that is very powerful in using the Hv Flail. However, PFS scenarios are pretty dependent on skills (not just combat) and you can't count on necessarily having someone at the table that can (or will) cast useful buff spells on you. So now I'm more looking at War Priest. Close to as good as the weapon master in just plain swinging a weapon. Plus they have a lot of swift buffs, self healing, and buff spells.

So here is the build I've come up with so far. He's at level 10, just to see what he would look like. Yes I know he would have to start at 1st level. I haven't fit him out with any items except a weapon and armor. But he will probably have to be kinda anemic on items since he will have to spend so much on the heavy flail.


Oread warpriest of Anubis 10 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 60, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2 205)
LN Medium outsider (native)
Init -2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +17
AC 19, touch 8, flat-footed 19 (+10 armor, -2 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 83 (10d8+30)
Fort +9, Ref +1, Will +10; +2 trait bonus vs. charm and compulsion
Defensive Abilities sacred armor (+2, 10 minutes/day)
Speed 20 ft. (15 ft. in armor)
Melee +1 cold iron boarding axe +13/+8 (1d6+6/×3) or
. . slitherbane +15/+10 (1d10+10/19-20 plus 2d6 vs. chaotic and 2d6 vs. monstrous humanoids)
Ranged +1 adaptive greenwood composite longbow +6/+1 (1d8+6/×3)
Special Attacks blessings 8/day (Earth: acid strike, armor of earth, Protection: aura of protection, increased defense), channel positive energy 4/day (DC 18, 3d6), fervor 8/day (3d6), sacred weapon (1d10, +2, 10 rounds/day)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 10th; concentration +7)
. . 1/day—magic stone
Warpriest Spells Prepared (CL 10th; concentration +13)
. . 4th—blessing of fervor[APG] (DC 17)
. . 3rd—dispel magic, invisibility purge, prayer, speak with dead (DC 16)
. . 2nd—inheritor's smite, martyr's bargain, communal protection from evil[UC], silence (DC 15), weapon of awe[APG] (DC 15)
. . 1st—air bubble[UC], bless, diagnose disease[UM], hide from undead (DC 14), shield of faith, stone shield[ARG]
. . 0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, guidance, mending, stabilize
Str 21, Dex 7, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 5
Base Atk +7; CMB +12 (+14 disarm, +14 trip); CMD 20 (22 vs. disarm, 22 vs. trip)
Feats Channel Smite, Combat Expertise, Felling Smash[UC], Greater Weapon Focus (heavy flail), Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (heavy flail), Weapon Specialization (heavy flail)
Traits birthmark, seeker
Skills Acrobatics -7 (-15 to jump), Climb +4, Handle Animal +1, Heal +7, Knowledge (engineering) +6, Knowledge (religion) +15, Linguistics +3, Perception +17, Sense Motive +16, Spellcraft +9, Survival +7
Languages Azlanti, Common, Dwarven, Terran, Undercommon
SQ crystalline form[ARG]
Other Gear +1 full plate, +1 adaptive greenwood composite longbow, +1 cold iron boarding axe, slitherbane, 150 gp
Special Abilities
Blessings (8/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Channel Smite Channel energy can be delivered through a Smite attack.
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Crystalline Form (1/day) +2 AC against rays. Can deflect a ray 1/day.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Felling Smash Trip a foe when you make a power attack
Fervor (3d6, 8/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Improved Disarm You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when disarming.
Improved Trip You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when tripping.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Sacred Armor +2 (10 minutes/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant armor enhancement bonus or certain powers. Use 1 fervor as free action to also activate Sacred weapon.
Sacred Weapon +2 (10 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon enhancement bonus or certain powers.
Warpriest Channel Positive Energy 3d6 (4/day, DC 18) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.

I am not necessarily set on the dumped dexterity. It is just that I always think of Oread as slow and uncoordinated. Plus he's in full plate which slows. I would probably plan on drinking potions of cat's grace before significant fights. But I could certainly drop the strength a little and bring the dexterity back up to normal.

Let me know what you think.

Liberty's Edge

Before the PFS sessions were set to begin, I was talking with a couple of folks I've known for a while.

We were yakking about a some of our PC's and what were planning for them.
- I have a PC that is getting all the goblin scenarios and the scenarios for the 3 intelligent magic items. He's an idiot that sometimes thinks he's a goblin. And eventually he will have a familiar, and eidolon, and 3 items all telling him what to do. It is certainly not power gaming. Those items and chronicles in general are not all that amazing. Unless I get incredibly lucky on my UMD rolls, I won't even be able to use all the items at the same time anyway. Soo I will be playing with less that full wealth in magic items.
- One of the other guys has a Core wizard that is picking scenarios to try and get as many non-core spells in his spellbook as possible. Plus any non-core magic items that would actually be useful to a generic wizard. He thinks it will be amusing to have a bunch of spells/items that aren't expected at a Core table.
- The last found a couple of improvable light weapons that he was going to get so he would be TWF with a couple of unique items.

All three of us have 10+ PC's and at least a fair amount of time behind the GM screen. All of us know about these things because we already have the chronicle sheets. So to get them on our specific characters, we will have to GM them (well maybe not all of the ones for the core wizard).

Now another player overheard us talking about our plans and got very upset about it. He was very offended that we were playing specific scenarios just for the rewards on the chronicle sheets. He was so upset that he walked out and didn't game with us that day. (I don't yet know if he will be back.)

This really surprised me. Many of the 'rewards' on the chronicle sheets are really only useful if you build a PC specifically to take advantage of them. The odds that you would randomly have a PC built to make use of that item when you just happen to play that scenario are vanishingly small.

Would this bother you if someone at your table or the GM at your table was participating in this particular scenario just because he knows what is on the chronicle sheet?

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