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James here. This thread is getting away again and I’m asking that people refrain from further discussion of anachronism in fantasy, which are no longer really yielding productive conversation. If, and only if, some of the authors who’ve already posted here want to drop any last thoughts, they can, but I ask that you let them close the conversation on that aspect of the discussion. As we’ve stated a few times, Tian Xia is an entire continent with at least 26 distinct regions, from which we have intentionally pulled both ancient and modern influences to represent the range of perspectives, tropes, and stories in Asian fiction and folklore. Given how diverse the Inner Sea Region is (sometimes anachronistically so—boy bands are older than some of the tropes in the Inner Sea, like Zon Kuthon), it’s only fair. A word on the general tone of discussion here, though: It’s totally okay to just not vibe with a work of fiction for whatever reason (I just saw Dune 2! I thought it was beautiful and I’ve always liked the story, but the pacing of the movie threw me off!). It’s also totally okay to critique works in a public setting—we’re all professional creatives who make public work—as long as you do so respectfully and fairly. However, implying that the work must have been written or converted with AI when there’s no evidence to that point—indeed when some of the authors have been gracious enough to come in and detail their inspirations on their work—isn’t just across the line, it’s accusing them of being in violation of our policies. The reason we have these comment threads is so people can interact with each other and share inspirations, stories from their games, tips for content, and the like, not be hitting refresh in back and forths, so I’d appreciate it if further discussion could go forward in this spirit. We have several more Tian Xia Days fictions, each very different in location and tone, to show off the breadth of fantasy coming in the book, so we hope there will be a bit of something for everyone! Personally, I love the sense of vibrant reconstruction everyone’s brought to this glimpse into Goka… and now I want taiyaki. Mahalo,
I call these “Faire Princess Tiffany”s because Tiffany is a name that tends to sound modern—Audrey Hepburn and department stores and all that—but it’s actually just the English version of the name “Theophania”. My favorite Faire Princess Tiffany is the vending machine, which has been around since Ancient Rome. In any event, Goka’s meant to be the most cosmopolitan and metropolitan location on the continent, and I love how Michelle (and Shao Han, the section author) have really made the advances and cultural crossovers front and center! As to whether Alley Bashers is like Street Fighter, hmm… it seems to have lateral movement as a part of the strategy… so maybe more like Gokan magitech Tekken (Magitekken)?
Reload ranged weapons are a type of weapon ikon we have our eye on (when sketching out possible directions for this class, the spear and sling were the first two weapon ikons I jotted down in my notebook), it just wasn't given a bespoke option for the playtest, with fated shot and various feats being the test ground for ranged ikons. As always, the playtest is shorter than the space allocation for the final book, and we typically expand these major class path deciders after testing with a smaller sample.
Looks great - will the Tian Xia (and related) books also cover Pacific Islander inspired regions? While seeing Asia inspired regions done well is great - I admit I would be even more excited for Pacific Islands inspired regions…. Minata, in Tian Xia, covers a lot of Pacific Islander stuff, as do the islands of the Okaiyo Ocean between that continent and western Arcadia! We got some awesome peeks at the latter in Monsters of Myth, where we heard a Taotake legend. Tian Xia won't have much of a direct focus on Pacific Islander cultures, as the primary real-life cultural inspiration of the region is Asia. While Minata had some Pacific Islander influence in First Edition, the region was somewhat conflated between the Philippines, the Pacific, some other Southeast Asian influences, and a lot of other fantasy themes regardless. We thought this wasn't leaving a lot of room for each culture or theme to shine—that's multiple countries and contents crammed into one little subregion that just one page in Dragon Empires Gazetteer. So, in this Second Edition return to Tian Xia, we're instead recentralizing Minata to be much more specifically Filipino in inspiration, which allows us to go deeper into those myths and fantasy. We have a lot of cool bits of lore and mechanics to this end coming in the books, by some really cool authors, that we can't wait to show off more! I more than anyone else at the company look forward to exploring some Pacific-inspired fantasy, but we wanna be sure we do it in a place (both in terms of product and location in Golarion) where we have the space to do it justice. In Second Edition, we've been moving them out into the Okaiyo Ocean, which gives us a clear area to define islands as needed, and it gives the vast expanse of ocean that I think's pretty fundamental to the concept. We call it Oceania, after all!
The flowers on the minotaur's hooves, though! So pretty! I want to play one just so I can have hoof-flowers. :D "Decorative shoe nails" was just one of MANY Kent Hamilton design flourishes that went into each crew member—we had drafts of the crew members and their personalities from each author, which Kent used to further develop them through their character designs. Creating a cast of characters who could appear persistently throughout the book (alongside the iconics) was a really collaborative process that could NOT have happened without him!
The authors did a great job with this! You can see the author blog here for some comments from some of them!
This sentence reads as intended--narrator just trails off every now and then ^_^. Who is this K.H.W. person whose initials are scattered throughout the book? He's not a preexisting character, but beyond that, who indeed, where indeed. There are some hints to his story here and there in the book, and others might come to light later
I just want the teenage Yoon we saw in the last PF1 Player's Companion to show up somewhere again. I'm curious to see if Shardra will be replaced as the Iconic Shaman, should we get one, since she was referred to simply as "Rivethun Dwarf" in LO: World Guide. Very possible, since it has been discussed that Shaman will be more culturally accurate, should it come. That said, I hope to see Mios and Shardra interact at some point. Seeing them in the same room would be a very powerful image I feel. While I know that the iconic character lineups mean a lot to many people, I also need to note that everything after these comments is moving pretty off topic from an explanation of what factors went into choosing THIS iconic into speculation on what hypothetical future iconics might be. This is Thaleon's (and Linda's!) moment, and future iconics will get their blogs in the spotlight when the time is right!
"Graduated"? Not sure what you mean by that. "Retired" maybe? Essentially yeah--"no longer THE iconic for that class"--but we found using "retired" or similar was kinda giving the impression they weren't characters anymore or had boxed up the sword/staff/etc to go start a bakery or something. Very much not the case, I'm sure Lirianne is out there shooting golems or Rivani is floating while she mind blasts some monsters, and we wanna leave the door open for if it's ever good to check in on the character in a fiction, art piece, etc!
Very cool lantern design. Since the recall knowledge implement is likely gonna be the tome this time, I'm looking forward to seeing what the lantern can do differently in the release. A focus on perception boosts including initiative rolls would be nice. Keep a look out for their iconic encounter fiction coming out later for a more in-depth look at what Mios looks like in action ^_^
While of course not every story will be for everyone, our iconics are the result of many hours of writing and polishing, and I think it's safe to say that all of our authors care very deeply about telling interesting stories (or they wouldn't take on this work!). Regarding "getting politics": Remember that all stories reflect a worldview of some kind--as someone said earlier in the conversation, even classics like "Girl goes to party with help of fairy godmother", "Farmboy pulls sword out of rock", or "Girl steals father's armor to save family/nation" inherently make statements about the society that they take place in. As we produce more and more iconics, they will necessarily have more and more worldviews--if every iconic was a bookish scholar or kick down the door party machine, things would get old quickly. People's existences and identities are of course, never up for debate. Please note that Mios uses they/them pronouns and should be referred to accordingly. Please keep the discussion to the character and hey, if they're not for you, they might be for someone else!
Hey everyone, I know kineticist is one of those classes that a lot of people really liked in P1 and always comes up on "when/how will Paizo update X class/archetype for P2" lists, alongside a few others, but I'd appreciate if we could keep things on topic here--there's a lot of theorycrafting on over in the General Discussion forums!
Both are fair points, James. I'm outside my edit window to make my... It's no problem and I'm personally not offended, but I think it'd just make for a more positive and sustainable online environment to keep things to the facts and make it clear who has said what. I don't feel the need to erase the post history because I think it's important the trajectory be clear. That's all, back to talking about classes and playtest!
I'm going to make two comments unrelated to the main discussion here 1) I don't think anyone is coming at this with malice, but all the same, please be extremely careful about stating something as fact if it is not. Even if the causal link appears to be very clear, attributing the source by saying something like "James Case said he left Paizo because the breakroom coffee was too bitter" is VERY different from "James Case left Paizo because the breakroom coffee was too bitter", which is very different from "Paizo's breakroom coffee is too bitter", which is very different from "Paizo doesn't care about its breakroom supplies". Statements tend to start at the beginning of this chain and drift further with each iteration, eventually ending somewhere like "Paizo doesn't care about its employees' nutrition at work," which is in no way what was initially stated. I've personally had to deal with at least one professionally major and quite frankly personally hurtful instance of this "incorrect conception that started from somewhere correct but very limited, but then spiraldrifted due to hasty telephoning" that has cost me a lot of energy at work I'd rather spend making games. Please note I'm intentionally picking a flippant and silly example to reduce the chance this statement can be construed out of context. 2) Please note that while some very salient protections go into place at the moment a union is formed, the majority of what people think of as the benefits of a union are the result of bargaining, which is a long and involved process taking many meetings. The national average time to first contract is over a year. The process is important but it is by no means a snap fingers done. That's all! I'm not going to weigh on on the content of the playtests other than to state that I'm really looking forward on updating people on the revisions to the Dark Archive classes later in the month! \^_^
Yeah, we wanna give the spring releases their chance in the spotlight before we move on to promoting the summer drops, but I'm looking forward to opening the archive just a bit at PaizoCon! I do wanna manage expectations a little bit on one thing in particular, though, because I've been seeing a suspicion catch hold both here and in some other online spaces, which is that the content for this book was all newly written for this book. This means that things like synthesis summoner and blood magic are not picked up from other books into this one. That being said, I think the feats, archetypes, class options, and more in Dark Archive will be ones people will really enjoy, with a good mix of returning options (including a couple that have gotten a bit of a stylistic makeover along with their mechanical update) and brand new ones we've never? had in Pathfinder before. More next month ^_^
I look forward to more spoilers for this book. Oh great (old ones) Michael Sayre and James Case, please bless us with something new, please! :D Hmm... just saying, but PaizoCon's next month and that's traditionally when a lot of information for the Gen Con release drops. If I knew what kind of things people were interested in learning more about--the classes? the GM tools? the player options? the lore? the mini-adventures?--that might be good to know about ＿φ( °-°)/
I'm sure we'll be going into more detail about the book, including its content and price, in the upcoming months, but it's not my line, so I'll let the leads (or Erik) drop information as they see fit ^_^. But on that note I've overheard some REALLY COOL stuff from Eleanor and Luis about this, so get ready...
Good morning, Archivists, Dark Archive is off to the printer, so to commemorate, here's a small spoiler from each class! Psychic Spoiler:
A new Focus Point tool that psychics have is the Brain Drain feat--when your psyche is unleashed, your mind is overwhelming enough that you can leech a nearby enemy's mental energy mid-combat, stupefying them and restoring one of your Focus Points! Thaumaturge Spoiler:
Thaumaturges are great at picking on the enemy that they've singled out, and the Cursed Effigy feat lets you snag a bit of hair or blood from an enemy and put it on a straw doll or paper figure, creating a sympathetic link that makes it harder for the enemy to save against your abilities! We'll be dropping more information in the upcoming months, especially as we get closer to PaizoCon. And if you can't wait until summer for spooky stuff, don't forget that Book of the Dead is coming out soon, which has some REAL cool and creepy monsters and options in it!
While there's certainly a lot of occult content in this book, including a new occult spellcaster, I should underscore that this isn't The Occult Book, but rather The Paranormal Book, and that the paranormal can be divine, arcane, primal, or even non-magical or a bit to the side of the tradition system altogether. After all, if everything could be neatly categorized... where would the mystery be? ^_^
While I'm sure this thread comes from a good place, I'd actually like to request that people wrap up these discussions and direct their attention to the United Paizo Workers website and @PaizoWorkers Twitter account. These sources will always contain the most up-to-date information that the workers can make public at the time. Please keep in mind that the timelines on these sorts of things can be long, but it doesn't mean that people aren't working hard behind the scenes, just that it takes a long time both to work out major changes in workplace structure and to get things firm to the point they can be broadcast to the general public. I know it's hard to wait, especially when you're invested in the health of the company and the workers, but this sort of public speculation on what might or might not be true, as reconstructed from other observations, has a unfortunate habit of easily morphing from speculation into "fact" that can make it harder, not easier, to effect change. Speaking from firsthand experience, having people speculate on aspects of your personal life, identity, or situation on the internet usually isn't a great feeling and often eventually hits a point where you're forced to step in and comment on something you'd otherwise have rather let pass. The UPW Twitter keeps its posts pretty on-topic and to the point, so feel free to turn on notifications so you know when major changes happen!
1. An absentminded tinker who doesn't realize she gets her ideas for new inventions from the dreams of those around her. She’s compelled to build... something...
Just curious: Who wrote the section on Tehialai? Polynesian culture is seldom represented in RPGs let alone mainstream media, and I'm curious about the inspiration and author of the piece. This was me! I was just a bit late for this blog cutoff, but I worked on both Tehialai and Taljjae (splitting this one with Soup, who DID send in a blog on time). I hope you like them!
Hey everyone, Please keep in mind the original post was simply looking to crowdsource-compile a list of canonically queer characters. A deep dive into the pros and cons of having fiction that intentionally tackles thorny real-life prejudices as a way to explore through them VS fiction that intentionally writes them out so as to provide a utopian place to escape to is a good conversation to have but is beyond the original scope of the thread and clearly splintering off.
November, and the Dark Archive playtest is now officially closed. I just want to take a second to say thank you to everyone who tried out the psychic and thaumaturge, participated in discussions on forums / chat servers / social media / YouTube / blogs / etc, and submitted feedback via playtest surveys. Mark and I will be taking some time to look over all the discussion and feedback before the team begins class revisions. Look forward to a playtest summary blog at some point the future where we'll go over some of the feedback and preview some of the changes to come (and maybe something else from the Dark Archive as well)! Thanks again!
The intent behind this note is just to show how the flavor of a psychic's somatic components might be a bit different from a wizard or sorcerer's to be a little closer to what it might be seen in psychics in media. It's still a somatic component. Re disability in our products, the intent is to not lock characters into or out of mechanics based on disability. If that's a part of the story you want to tell with your character, it's best that you discuss that with your group and GM to find a way that works for everyone (though we have some base suggestions to start from in the CRB). We have a few characters missing limbs in art and I'm sure we'll have more as we go along, so if you want to make a psychic (or other spellcaster, for that matter) who's missing a limb, go for it!
Hi everyone, I just wanted to pop in and say that while it's good to hear the feedback that people want more distinction from the existing occult casters like sorcerer and bard, I really do want to discourage edition warring broadly and especially in a playtest forum--the easier it is for me to find feedback, the higher the chance of that feedback getting heard above the back-and-forth of "psionic" vs "psychic". I've been avoiding explaining toooooo much of the design process at this time because I want to close my mouth and listen to what people think without getting in the way, but maybe some context here might help. One of the things we're trying to be more intentional about in P2 is cross-linking the mechanics of PF2 with the setting of Golarion, which I at least think has yielded a ton of really cool ideas, especially in the new Lost Omens line. So, in designing the PF2 version of the psychic, I looked at how psy-users/psionics/psychics/psychickers/espers/etc have been presented in the setting, which is as a strange type of spellcaster, but a spellcaster nonetheless (though one that in P1 also had a secondary point-based resource in their phrenic pool and phrenic amplifications). So, while the classes can change a great deal from playtest to final, it's likely that whatever direction the class proceeds would still try to match the setting in this way. I'm going to leave this thread open as a place for people to discuss ways that psychic might carve out more niche for itself against bard, occultsorcerer, occultwitch, and occultsummoner, but I'd like to ask people to hold off on the back and forth of "psionic" vs "psychic" and discussion of past versions of RPGs to keep the focus on the playtest, vs straying into edition warring. I look forward to seeing what people think!
As with all of our playtests, we're testing only a representative cross-section of the class and the final will have more feats, class paths, all of that. I have a some notes of what some later additions might be, but I won't be spoiling that here (and besides, much might change as a result of playtest so I don't wanna get too set on anything). But I enjoy people seeing what potential they think the class might have!
They are!
Is the new Iconic Psychic a Vourinoi Elf? We know almost nothing about that culture, but after how great the Muaijae have gotten to be, I’m keen to meet their desert neighbors. Thaleon is indeed an elf, but we'll be holding onto the rest of the info on the iconics until later--this is just a sneak peek ^_^ !
Welcome to the Dark Archive playtest for the psychic class! I'm so excited to see everyone put this class through its paces and to see what feedback you come up with from your game tables! To make it easier for Mark and I to find all the feedback both here and in other spaces, I'd like to request two things. First, before you post some feedback, try to see if a thread for it already exists and join that discussion so there aren't as many to sift through. Second, try to recognize if a thread is back-and-forthing about a topic where everyone seems to have made all their points, it's okay to bow out. I promise I will read everything in all three of these forums, this is just to keep it a little easier for me to draw out the feedback. Lastly, remember we're all here to make both of these classes the best they can be, so please treat your fellow posters with kindness and mutual respect. We all just want to play weird paranormal characters, so we're all on the same side ^_^! Thanks for taking the time to check out the playtest and give your feedback. Now, go make some psychics!
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