Dario's page

I'm fairly sure the silhouette being displayed is predicated on them having been detected. I don't think you even see that much if they're undetected.

I'm curious. This trend of referring to the unaffiliated settlements as "The Slums"... is this something people were doing already, or something Andius is doing to attempt to add a veneer of moral righteousness to his personal vendetta against TEO? I haven't seen the term used prior to this thread, and the need to define the area he's talking about in the first post suggests its not a sufficiently common descriptor for the area to assume people are familiar with it.

Well, almost everyone is sure to be playing in the alpha this weekend so it might be a bit before you get a definitive reply, but my understanding is that the early enrollment package being sold now in the goblinworks store is actually for month 2 of early enrollment (month 1, beginning on the 22nd, sold out already).

If that's the case, they need to update the store page, because it's still saying "Join the game in the first month!" for the Early Enrollment $100 package, which this individual says they have purchased. They have the Explorer's package at $50 which is for month 2, and only comes with 1 month of game time. It also does not include the New Player pack that the Early Enrollment package does.

I'd recommend reading through the Blog as a basic primer, though some of the information there has been superseded.

As far as aging to death, that's basically a nonstarter for an MMO. Not only would it put an ultimate XP cap on characters (something we currently do not have), but it means that hitting the level cap means death and the loss of *years* of effort. That said, if you want to roll up a new character, twink it with resources from the higher level, and delete your old one for your own reasons, by all means, go for it. =P

My understanding was that there was already a system of voluntary PVP flags planned. Given that information, I'm not sure that voluntarily giving yourself the murderer flag is really a problem, given that it doesn't carry any of the benefits of those other voluntary flags.

As far as suicide, I think it's fairly important to have some way to voluntarily release your character in the event of becoming stuck, or a host of other reasons. As long as it carries all the weight of an actual death, I don't see much problem with it. It's no different than jumping into a group of mobs and letting them do it for you, or flagging yourself and letting a friend kill you.

I sincerely hope that "PVP window" for POIs doesn't mean "Hex-wide FFA".

Honestly, I hope coin stays primarily off the loot table. Players need something to start over with, and getting told they've lost absolutely everything just makes it easier to walk away from the game when things have gone south.

In alpha, right now, I do not believe there is a way to engage in a real fight between two players where one player does not lose rep. Key phrase there is "right now". Right now, there are none of the cases identified as desirable PVP implemented in game. Therefore, right now, anyone instigating PVP should be recognized by the system as undesirable. This is how the reputation system is supposed to work.

Does that impact testing PVP balance/functions of skills on players? Yes. But I'm fairly comfortable with the expectation that as alpha goes on, we'll get something to use for that purpose. My personal expectation is a PVP hex set up to emulate one of the tower hexes during their open PVP window, which would allow testing of pvp mechanics, transition from protected to FFA hexes, and notification systems which will be needed for the War of the Towers.

Obvious Sam wrote:

Guess you guys really should have listened to Andius. He's probably the only one in your little organization with any foresight.

Correction. I was the only one in their little organization with any foresight. And thank you for voicing that.

Did you just thank your own sock puppet account?

Brilliant.

Both of you, two minutes in the Punalty Box.

I do not believe that to be the case, I'm fairly certain it is a combination of the assassination contract and a deathblow delivered by someone flying the assassin flag that actually causes the severing of threads.

Unless I've missed an update, it's just the assassin flag that causes the thread severing. It's the contract that enables the DI hit.

Nonetheless, I think it's extremely unlikely the devs will allow you to engineer a situation in which another player has no agency. Even in a completely outmatched fight, the weaker player still has the opportunity to try to run. Even in a SAD, the merchant has the opportunity to refuse to pay and fight back. These are not based on character XP or trained skills, but on player choice. You are advocating for an encounter in which the opposing player may have no choice to act whatsoever, and I just don't think that's going to fly.

Remember that having a higher personality stat doesn't make you better at the job. It's just a gating mechanism. The relevant factor is how you've trained the skills.

Your proposal does nothing to address logouts, and enables the possibility of totally unaware one-shots. If logouts are the problem, do something to penalize logging out while being observed, as other proposals have done. I strongly suspect the devs don't plan to allow logging out to be a free pass to avoid assassination, given their plans to prevent other methods of going into hiding:

Observation is a utility feat that you can use from Stealth up to a certain range, and which takes a few seconds to activate. You must be flying the Assassin flag (even if it is hidden by your Disguise) to use this feat. Using it puts a stack of the "Being Observed" debuff on your target. This is the target's warning that he is being targeted by an assassin (possibly his first and only warning). Further successful uses of the feat add more stacks of the debuff and reset the decay of the existing stacks. This debuff slowly decays over a minute or so if not refreshed. If the target hides somewhere an assassin couldn't get to start a fight (like inside the settlement keep), the debuff does not decay and may actually get worse (to keep targets from easily waiting out an assassination attempt).

Emphasis mine.

They'll have more coin, more resources, more social connections, more achievements...

DeciusBrutus wrote:

If it is possible to apply Observed without being detectable, why have it?

I think this statement misses the point. The proposal is to have 'Being Observed' be detectable rather than being detected.

The difference is requiring a successful Perception vs. Stealth vs. No requirement at all. Anything other than the above is a colossal breach of realism. So bad in fact as to make the assassin character archetype that a great many of us want to play impossible.

I think it also needs to be understood that At no point am I saying the 'Being Observed' debuff should be undetectable that would be just as breaking as the reverse.

Realism is not, and should not, be a design goal unless you're making a physics sim. Good gameplay should be the design goal.

As it stands right now, someone already needs to have perception to try to penetrate your disguise, or the best the target can do is run, not fight back. You should not be able to have an encounter in which one side is unaware they are participating until it is over. Passive, system-generated skill checks do not constitute engagement.

First, you're confusing apathy with compromise. That I accept that a loss on a single issue does not invalidate the good I can do within a group does not mean I do not care about the issue. Second, you seem to be operating under the premise that a decision, once made, can never ever ever be changed. So of course, if you raised your objection and it wasn't resolved you should just give up.

So, if you disagree with anything that happens in your company you should leave it? You can't disagree with something, but stay to try to fix it or because the greater goal of the company is more important than a single issue. Nope, it's wholehearted support on every single issue or you should leave. How simplistic.

Perhaps there could be POIs that function like suburbs to their main Settlements. Villages on the outskirts of major cities.

Nothing we build in this game is going to qualify as a city. We're not going to be creating the next Absalom, or Korvosa, or Riddleport. We're building villages and towns.

Honestly, (and I say this as an RPer and advocate of player housing in most games) I sincerely hope we don't get player housing in this game. The issues with instanced housing (and instancing in general) have already been brought up, but the depopulate what should be the social hubs of the game, and divide the playerbase. So if they're not instancing them, we end up with the following scenarios:

Case 1) It takes up settlement real estate: It will never get used. Settlements will already be pressed for space to build structures everyone. They're not going to waste space on something that benefits only a tiny percentage of their membership.

Case 2) Housing as PoIs: No player will be able to hold a house by themselves against a company who wants to take that PoI to serve their entire company. You can make the argument that an entire company could work together to get one person a house, but that's just not going to happen often enough to justify the effort. If you replace single houses with neighborhood POIs, then you end up with the urban sprawl problem (see below).

Case 3) Separate "housing plot" locations for people to build on: Either you have so few spots as to fail to justify the system, or you have so many that you end up with an urban sprawl totally inappropriate for the River Kingdoms.

What I think might be a workable compromise would be something along the lines of guild halls or company HQs. Whether in settlements or as PoIs, this provides a single structure benefiting an entire company of players.

Barbarian is an offensive name for a role. It implies I have to be crass, savage, and uncivilized. It must be changed immediately or no one will ever play this game and it will fail so hard it echos back in time and cancels the kickstarter.

/sarcasm =P

Claiming an unclaimable hex is exactly that, whether it has a cost or not. If you limited it to hexes that could actually be claimed via PoI/Settlements, then maybe it could have merit, effectively blockading an area as part of a siege or settlement warfare. But not to turn hexes deliberately left out of the territory control into psuedo-ownership.

This is basically claiming unclaimable hexes, which really inclines me against it.

Just to throw out there, Skill Support also serves to keep characters tied to settlements. Otherwise it would be a trivial matter to train up enough skills and break for it on your own. Aside from effectively opting out of the core of the game (territory control), that would also provide insulation from many of the mechanics designed to prevent people from wandering around RPKing.

To be fair what I saw on the twitch tv feeds was not as good as what I saw on Lee Hammock's video, so that is a problem with Twitch.

As someone actually in the alpha.... This. I watched Nihimon's feed while I was downloading the client, and it looks much worse on twitch than it did when I actually got into the game.

Can anyone confirm that the backers of the tech demo will be invited as stated here?

"Those initial Alpha Testers will be the people who backed the Tech Demo Kickstarter and the Pathfinder Online MMO Kickstarter at the Alpha level (or equivalent). We will also be inviting selected members of the media, partners, potential investors, and other business related contacts to join us."

Thanks and congrats GW!!!

If you backed the Tech Demo kickstarter at the Alpha level (> $1000), you should have already received your invite. If you did so and have not received it, I'd contact support. If you backed it at a lower level, this does not apply to you.

Well, I know Paizo Con is this weekend, and a number of alphas are going to be at that instead of testing. (I won't, because Seattle is way too far.)

I did notice in some of the video I have seen items dropped from mobs instead of broken junk or crafting mats. (I can't remember if it was a mob fight or players fighting, but I think it was mobs. I was under the impression very few if any actual usable items would be in the loot matrix for mobs. I am hoping that is the case because it would keep crafting primary in the economy instead of lootable gear.

It was starter-grade gear.

Combat text seems to be anchored to the target, which makes it very difficult to read at range.

In almost any MMO I've played, you will ALWAYS save the +5 ingots to make your +5 sword. Unfortunately, its not really a decision.

Except that every time someone takes that +5 sword out, it's at a huge risk of being lost to looting or destruction on death. There's going to be a much brisker trade of mid-grade goods that people can thread cheaper, and less demand for the high end items that people will take and drop in their bank until the fecal matter strikes the rotary cooling device.

Pick a Class/Role when you create your character and get skills/gear accordingly. CHECK!

This is a concession of Alpha. When the game starts, you will not pick a starting class. Everyone will start off with the same generic base and then spend XP in game to figure out where they go.

Train Class/Role skills at a Class/Role trainer CHECK!

They have skills logically organized by the role they belong to. You can still go to any trainer and buy skills.

Certain skills only available to certain Classes/Roles CHECK!

See above. Skills may belong to one role, but are not limited to it. You can train any skill you meet the prerequisites for. Skills are assigned roles only for logical grouping and devotion bonus (when that gets implemented).

Inability to change Class/Role CHECK?? This certainly seems implied by the previous post.

Inability to train other Class/Role skills CHECK?? This also seems implied by the last post.

Simply false.

Well, it's certainly not WoW crafting, I can tell you that much. As near as I can tell crafting sort of works out like the following:

1) Gather raw materials from nodes. The quality of material you gather depends on the node type, the hex you're in, your gathering skill, and the amount of other gathering that has gone on in the hex.

2) Refine the materials. Some materials have only one refinement path, some have several. Refining requires a refining facility, and the quality of the refined goods produced depends on your skill level, the quality of the raw materials, and the quality of the refining facility.

3) Crafting the finished good. You begin by selecting among the recipes you have. This will bring up a list of the required materials. Clicking on that list will display all of that kind of material you have in your inventory or local bank, and you can select what quality of material you want to use. Once you have all the materials set, you begin crafting. Crafting will take some amount of time, from minutes to hours, depending on your skill level and the quality of the production facility. The final product will have a quality dependant on your skill level, the quality of the materials, and the quality of the production facility.

Now, since each of these are different skill roles, to produce the best gear, you've just involved three different people who have all worked hard in their individual areas.

Edit to add: I recommend you check out section 21 of this document as it gives a good overview of the crafting process.

So, I have set up and (loosely) tested my stream. First time streamer, so... expect glitches.

http://www.twitch.tv/dariotashavan

I'm grinning like a fool over here after watching that again. That was so much fun!

Watching it just makes you want to get back in, doesn't it?

Sorry if the part you caught was dull, there was a lot going on. We did venture up into the mountains and wipe out some Ogres after just steamrolling bandits and such below.

Man, that was a great fight. "You know we're all gonna die, right?" "...Wait, are we actually winning?" "Holy crap, we won. I feel like a BAMF." Teamwork, yo. Key to victory. Teamwork and a dash of "Ohgodhe'seatingmyfacerunaway!"

Awesome. Tork's going to be so jealous you got that many stacked. I don't think we've gotten more than three in our office playtests.

You should see what happened when we applied this newfound player capability to an actual challenge. =P

Dario wrote:

Sci-fi is also a popular genre. Should we also bring in laser weapons and space ships from Numeria? I mean, these things are supposed to be rare, but they exist in the setting, so, fair game, right?

Perhaps you should listen to the Gobocast here.

If you're going to point someone at a 50 minute recording, you should really be more specific.

Tig... the following is the mental image you have just afflicted me with..

A robber pops the latch on a window, peaking inside. Wondering to himself who has shag carpeting in the 21st century, he slips through, only to discover the floor is not, in fact, shag carpet, but rather a Colossal Ferret Swarm.

...I may have to inflict this on my players in my current tabletop game.

It's still going to be worthwhile for a lot of people but should be more comparible in popularity to any specific race or class than seen as a must have.

This is one of the things that a lot of us are having a problem with. Werewolves and Vampires should not be as common as elves and dwarves. That is not in keeping with the setting of the game. Some people actually like the setting.

Brought to you by the Golarion Non Offending Meta Experience Summit.

What you did there. I see it. I'm onto you shifty little rainbowbabies.

Beta will only allow clerics of 9 deities?

I believe at the start they will have one god per alignment, with plans to add more over time. My information is rather old though, so I hope someone will correct me if I'm misleading you.

Maybe instead of a map showing a red hex, when you get within 100 game yards (or meters) the music changes to a known and recognizable war chant, or some sort of martial music. Otherwise the hex could play something more peaceful, and if the hex has a timer running down (like in your example of "within an hour") a different, cautionary tune could play, not peace, not war. That way we would be warned without breaking immersion.

Please remember that there are a number of reasons for people to play with sound down/off, or be otherwise unable to hear audio cues like that. It would need to be supplemented with something on-screen.

I would say that them being claimed is fairly irrelevant, since during the PVP window they'll still be FFA. It just means that instead of the map being constantly FFA, you'll have rolling zones of FFA rippling across the map. Not to mention that, since all towers controlled by a settlement will be on the same window, there will be a period (as determined by the number of towers controlled) where you cannot leave your settlement without passing through a FFA zone (unless, for some reason, you choose not to control the towers adjacent to your settlement.) Yes, there's an argument that the settlement should be patrolling during this time, but that's only a partial solution when you factor in that they'll also be busy defending their towers, and that if they're not adopting an NBSI stance (and thus becoming part of the problem), they won't know if anyone passing through is going to be trouble until it's too late.

I have faith that if it does prove to be too problematic, the GW crew will adjust it, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as fine yet.

Edit to add: My personal concern is that part of the goal of EE is to set the tone and establish community norms, and that we risk (not guaranteed) setting a tone that any future restrictions designed to differentiate meaningful PVP from casual ganking will be fighting against established conventions.

For whatever reason, the folks who are most interested in PvP seem to want it to be FFA in as much of the map as possible. I remember going back and forth with one person who was so convinced that all Wilderness Hexes would be FFA PvP that it took two threads in as many weeks with clarifications from the developers before he grudgingly (and with lots of doomsaying about how such a game couldn't help but fail) accepted it. Those same people seem to really love to brag about how much they're going to dominate. It's hard not to see it as an attempt to sow despair, and it's hard not to believe it's working to some degree.

I always believed Ryan when he said he'd "rather shut down the game and quit than run a simplistic murder simulator for the enjoyment of a tiny fraction of sociopaths". I always believed him when he said he would "repeatedly and powerfully shock the system" until folks recognized that random killing would gimp their character development. At the same time, I've seen folks try to define "random killing" out of existence entirely, and insist that Ryan would eat crow if it was a profitable murder simulator.

I won't presume to offer reasons why folks shouldn't feel the way they feel, but I will try to offer some hope. Ryan is a very smart man, with a clear vision to make Pathfinder Online into something he and Paizo can be proud of. In my heart of hearts, I believe he'll succeed. For the sake of others who may feel the same way as the "silent disappointed", I would ask you to hold true to the belief that made you support Pathfinder Online to begin with, to Stand Tall in the Dark, and help us make Pathfinder Online into a game that you will enjoy.

While I agree with you, I can see how some people concerned about the murderfest could be bothered by the recent announcements. We were told that there would be consequences for random PK, and that the game would not be a FFA, only to now be told that at least some of the time, large sections of the map would be consequence free open fire zones. And it's not an unreasonable assumption those times will be during peak hours when settlements have people on to defend their towers during the PVP window.

Whether or not these prove to be the problems that some think they will be, there is an understandable reason for people worried about this to be moreso now than they were a week ago.

Hell, you can just make gnomes with the faces of prominent community members on them. Then sell them to people so they can smash them in effigy.

Don't lie, KC. You just want to fill your house with sexy Nihimon-gnomes.

By the way - Bob Settles is the newest designer at Goblinworks! He hasnt got his avatar/title sorted in the forums yet. He is handling the PvE side of things. PILE ON HIM.

Man, we haven't even launched yet and the devs are already throwing each other to to the wolves. I suppose we should expect this from Goblins. =P

Stephen Cheney wrote:

We're deliberately avoiding creating any resources that are limited to a small area. Harvestable/Gatherable components are deliberately spread out all over the map. Creatures with valuable drops appear in escalations that can appear lots of different places on the map.

One of the things Pathfinder Online advertises is trade. If there are no localized resources won't that drastically cut down on the need for trade between hexes?

Just because a resource can spawn in 50 different hexes, doesn't mean it will be available in your hex. I don't think any single area will produce all the resources needed, just that no resource will be confined to an easily controlled area.

On a somewhat related subject do any of you know of any games that already exist in the Pathfinder universe, or will this require building Pathfinder based games from the ground up?

The first module of the Second Darkness adventure gives us Bounder (a hi-low dice game), Ghoulette (similar to roulette, based on the insults of a magically animated head), Golem (a five card draw analogue), and Skiffs (which is way more complicated than I feel like summarizing)

Quote:

We are targeting four roles for the start of Early Enrollment: fighters, wizards, rogues, and clerics.

Will we be able to activate our Destiny's Twin at the beginning of Early Enrollment?

Suppose I want to play a Paladin for my Destiny's Twin, but don't want to spend anything in Fighter yet. Could I go ahead and start earning XP and just save it up for later when Paladins are implemented?

That's exactly what I plan to do with my twin. Hopefully I'll be able to swap him over to the race I want him to be later on.

I'd like to say that this is an awesome insight into what the timeline and milestones are going to look like. With a better idea of the MVP and the OE launch goals, we'll hopefully be able to keep the discussion channeled in a productive direction.

The system won't be called goblin balls.

Maybe not by you guys =P