I'll just post this here since the survey doesnt include text:
The level 6 feat "tactical team up" seems straight up worse than the level 2 feat "coordinated fire". Coordinated fire allows for two actions you and your drone or turret to each make an attack at the same MAP (dont know why this applies to drone since you dont share MAP). The damage gets combined (which seems to be the only benefit this feat gives drones). The level 6 feat tactical teamup applies only to turrets. It also allows you to make one attack each for two actions, but they apply MAP normally. Your attack needs to be the secone one, but the target is off guard against it. Mathematically, using the same MAP is a lot better than gaining off guard on the second attack. It also doesnt combine damage. The feats themselves feel rather similar, but i dont think a level 2 classfeat should outclass a level 6 one. Maybe coordinated Fire should be Turret only and Tactical Team up would work better as a Drone only feat.
concerning flying enemies: technically Mines dont even say they need to be on the ground. For ranged deployment it just says in a square. I dont see the ground mentioned anywhere.
Sidenote: The two action deployment actually says "You can increase the number of
actions you spend Deploying a Mine to 2, to instead plant the
mine in an occupied square within 30 feet."
The class inching closer to being able to use barricade buster, but still not being able to, is frustrating to say the least.
Weapon innovation really needed a more tangible bonus to it and is now an even worse choice...
At least armor does something now.
I want to like the class and i do like what is there but there is so much clunkyness and tiny niche things.
Overdrive needed a buff as well.
The unstable buff is not in line with the focus spell changes and results in just 1 unstable action per combat most times, which just feels weird. Maybe you should have been able to use all your unstable actions once and only needing a check on repeats. Or have the DC rise the more often you use it, which would fit with the theme. So a DC 5 at start and increase by 5 with every further unstable action.
The epiphet "Restless as the Tide" would damage yourself if you do it with a melee weapon. Considering that wilding hands has a sentence on you being immune to its splash damage (kinda annoying that it still damages your allies) i would imagine this should have the same line of text? Or i guess its just for ranged weapons.
Jalmeray Heavenseeker Dedication was declared as legal in lost Omens impossible lands (the lost omens version, not the AP version). There is still no Boon to actually get the archetype though, as its uncommon. So its legal but cannot be picked.
This is no longer true.
Could you elaborate which part is no longer true? I still dont see a boon for it.
Jalmeray Heavenseeker Dedication was declared as legal in lost Omens impossible lands (the lost omens version, not the AP version). There is still no Boon to actually get the archetype though, as its uncommon. So its legal but cannot be picked.
Giving a hazard encounter just one possible skillcheck and that at expert is just rude honestly. if you dont have that you can whack a hazard for half an hour
Id rather get content for the classes that are already out. More Champion causes (though i understand we get a new one), more monk stances, more ranger hunters edges, more Magus studies, more feats for everyone.
(P.93) The Giant Wasp animal companion has an ability that seems like it should be one action, not two.
The ability "Darting Stab" seems similar to the Dromeasaurs "Darting Attack" where you can step 10 feet and attack or attack and step 10 feet as a single action.
The riding was has the ability Darting Sting or sth like that and allows to fly 15 feet and attack or attack and fly 15 feet, but its listed as 2 actions.
That would kinda make no sense to me because you would spend to actions to move less than you could if you just spend an action to move and then to attack, since the wasp has a 40 feet fly speed.
A boon to access the updated Jalmeri Heavenseeker archetype from Lost Omens Impossible Lands.
PFS entry to that book states that the updated version of this is now legal, but since it is uncommon it needs a boon to be accessed and it doesnt have one
Two actions to pull out a weapon with each hand, unless you use two hands to grab one weapon, same for swapping, not to mention the tax of extra runes or gear to duplicate runes and returning tax on throwing.
It's already more effective to use big sword, no need to bully the duals.
I dont think dualwielding in pf2e is that bad. Dual Strikes is pretty damn strong and afaik a dualwielding fighter was always considered the pinnacle of damage. I remember the reddit post from a GM where the whole party was fighters dual wielding flickmaces...
That said i found the soulforger dedication a good way to "draw" two weapons with one action.
Maybe a slight buff to dualwielding if you have to draw something else like a potion: i heard if you interact to draw something you can stow something with the same action.
On theme of dislikes: cantrip changes are a huge miss for me mostly. No cantrip comes close to EA once again and EA got nerfed effectively. I REALLY hate that they tacked on the "must have both hands free" unto that wind cantrip that attacks two people. Why. Just why.
Daze is still H2?
On the other hand all traditions have access to needle darts which is a good one.
I somewhat like the change of removing spell mod to damage for cantrips in favour of dice because most of my players literally always forget what a spell modifier is even after finishing a 1-20 campaign and now being level 7 in the next one.
It seems like they didnt want to change too much, which i guess i understand but it seems like a missed opportunity to at least create one alternative on par with EA. Maybe in PC2...
There is a feat called wind seeker that gives additional Options. I strongly suspect there will be more of those for higher level battleforms. Given that druid also needs to invest feats to improve wild shape that would seem fair
The Exemplar has lots of cool Ikons and i really like the modularity of the class but there is an ability that stood out to me. The Transcendence ability from the Victors Wreath worn Ikon "One Moment till Glory"
Playtest wrote:
You rally your allies, carrying them from the brink
of disaster to the verge of victory. Each ally in your aura
immediately makes a new saving throw with a +2 status
bonus against one ongoing negative effect or condition
they are currently affected by, even if that effect would not
normally allow a new saving throw.
So at first this seemed very useful to me in combat. Your ally gets hit with a nasty spell, say they crit fail against overwhelming presence. You give them another save with a +2 even if the effect doesnt normally grant one. Or you free them of being slowed or paralyzed or stunned.
But ongoing negative effect is not clearly defined, right? Curses, sicknesses and poisons would also fall under that. This ability would practically negate all long term negative effects like curses and illnesses completely since you can just roll a lot out of combat.
Thermal Nimbus: I think this is better than you're rating it, thanks to the synergy with Fire's Aura Junction. Note that your allies will usually be safe since they're gaining DR = level and taking damage = 1/2 level resulting in no damage, but in niche circumstances like an ally with a fire weakness you could potentially add Safe Elements.
Hard agree. This Impulse is amazing. I see the Fire resistance to friends as a minor bonus and also a way to not have to take safe elements with this. Paired with Aura Junction you essentially deal your level in damage to all enemies around you, without a save, every turn. That just is really great especially once you get shape Aura. The damage isnt super high but the value rises the longer a fight takes and the more enemies there are.
Its also great on a Fire Earth Kin with Armor in Earth.
Fire Kineticits want to be close to enemies anyways, since they wanna trigger their Aura Junction so i honestly think every fire kineticist wants this.
I think for Weapon Infusion i'd mention how the thrown and propulsive traits are pretty nice for Kineticists that get an Armor option. Earth effectively gaining +3 damage on their EB if the enemy is in 20 feet range is pretty great, especially at low levels. Propulsive even INCREASES the range of all EB aside from fire and air while also giving it added damage.
The biggest draw back here is that it is a free action you can do before a blast. So you CANNOT use it for the blast you can do as part of Channel Elements. For some builds that might be the only kind of Blast they do if they focus on doing Overflow impulses most turns.
Oof. I hope they dont stick with that. It leads to swingier damage and also, hilariously, to magus not caring about INT at all anymore.
I was hoping for a buff to cantrips, to elevate them to EA level. Casters being "too weak" is one of the complaints of the system that keeps some players out, so i dont know why you would nerf cantrips straight through the board. Even needle darts, that looks like more damage is pretty much produce flame damage. At higher range at least and being able to trigger weaknesses but still.
The other thing people talk about here. My players definately are still sometimes confused about spellcasting modifier. They are not gamers for the most part and all use pathbuilder.
Its different for physical attacks because there, you have your one trusty strike that always adds this ammount. Might grow over levels but not like you have to remember much. For spells, some add Modifier, most dont. Then they try to remember what their spellcasting modifier means. It happens more often than id like.
This response also makes "casters might be able to add mod to damage for all spells" a bigger cope. Really doesnt look like it.
Also the first time i read about the air cantrip requiring two free hands. That seems like a really unnecessary requirement.
Why not both? I like true strike (especially since i like magus)
I actually fully believe something like Kineticists gate attenuator is coming for casters. They probably wanted to put it in the new core book though. Or maybe test it out a bit more.
Thaumaturge is a fun class and a really good one but I dont think it should overshadow your group.
Rogue is a utility powerhouse with decent damage. Its squishier then others but actually so is Thaumaturge (though you mitigate that very well with amulet). You mention rogues damage being a bit less than yours but you have to spend an action to trigger your weaknesses. Unless you are facing Single strong enemies, they often go down after you Land one attack, making you need to do EV again on the next enemy. While you EV the rogue can get a second attack in, for example. Also for most levels their to hit Bonus should be higher than yours.
If the Ranger is ranged that is expected to deal less damage than a melee.
As others said you have gotten diverse lore wrong and accidentally made it much more powerful. Whoops. Its still a very powerful feat though.
Personally, while I like my thaumaturge, it has performed a bit worse than I thought. I play them in PFS where most fights are pretty quick and against multiple weaker enemies, so my EV is often over quickly and I get my AoO from the weapon implement rarely. There are whole sessions with multiple combat where it just doesnt trigger and im even using a reach weapon! (Mostly because my EV target dies)
It seems like the rest of your party is playing a bit suboptimal. Rogue for example is IMO one of the best classes in the game.
I feel like if your party saw another martial in action they would lose it lol.
Maybe if you really want to demonstrate that bring a dragon instinct barbarian if you have to switch classes. Now that is damage.
A big gripe i have is gunslinger and dualwielding pistols. GnG features lots and lots of pictures of dual wielding pistols but the build itself is really clunky. Pistolero is maybe the Gunslinger way implied to enable that playstyle but actually has no support whatsoever for it. Doesnt even allow you to draw two pistols with the initiative free action.
capacity works with slingers reload only because the devs said so specifically. dual weapon reload doesnt work with slinger reload at all, which would be an okay trade off it it at least reloaded both weapons.
There needs to be an actual dual wielding gunslinger way.
I guess what i was asking is if SoT expects you to fill half of a session or more with roleplay. Because i dont think i am able to improv that well, let alone my players.
Book 1 and 2 actually read kinda interesting so i think ill give those a try and see if the players and i enjoy it.
I would love to play AV, but i dont think megadungeon appeals to my players that much. Because opposed to the impression people got here they are not murderhobos. Not roleplaying that much isnt equal to murderhoboing. And they do like solving combat through diplomacy or creatively so i think that works out perfectly.
More than half of Book 4 is roleplay.
Wait what? That sounds insane haha. How does that even work
I guess what i was asking is if SoT expects you to fill half of a session or more with roleplay. Because i dont think i am able to improv that well, let alone my players.
Book 1 and 2 actually read kinda interesting so i think ill give those a try and see if the players and i enjoy it.
I would love to play AV, but i dont think megadungeon appeals to my players that much. Because opposed to the impression people got here they are not murderhobos. Not roleplaying that much isnt equal to murderhoboing. And they do like solving combat through diplomacy or creatively so i think that works out perfectly.
SoT is roleplay-heavy and has a focus on nonviolent solutions. You’re also only students for two books. I think your group would be better served with a different AP.
They are also up for being teachers.
And I know about AV, it honestly sounds right up my alley. We started in 5e ages ago and my fave part was the Tomb of Annihilation.
And I might have misrepresented them, they are not combat hungry or sth and they do enjoy solving of avoiding combat creatively. They just suck at roleplaying and tend to be a bit antagonistic towards NPCs unless they are hot older men.
Edit: Also is the "combats are avoidable and diplomacy is more important" - theme stronger in later levels?
Ive read through book 1 and aside from the 1 pugwampi encounter that gives other options to solve it it doesnt necessarily seem that much less combat heavy than other boos ive read.
Or to say if i like the balance book 1 strikes, can i expect similar things from the rest?
Just started the last book of EC and some of my group are already pretty hype to play the "magic school" adventure.
I have already read through kindled magic and it does look fun.
My main question would be if the AP is also fun for a group that is less roleplay focused. The AP gets recommended often for groups that prefer to err heavy on the roleplay side.
We do roleplay some times and i like to speak as the villains but it really isnt the strong suit of either me or my players. For example they will roleplay with me speaking an NPC but very rarely among each other.
I worry that SoT is more for groups that have fun fully roleplaying an hour of shopping or basically play more like an improv group with occasional dice rolling.
Any light RP dms here that still enjoyed SoT? Are combats in this AP still fun?
In my opinion, it's TR that is the only useful Amped offensive cantrip when compared to Electric Arc.
I dunno shatter Mind seem pretty insane to me as a Focus spell. Scales 1d10 per level. 60 foot cone without friendly fire is also pretty great for hitting many targets. I consider this one of the best Focus spells.
It has the weakness of not working on the mindless, making it a bit campaign dependent, but still.
Has someone done damage calcs on Thaumaturge btw? With personal antithesis and implements empowerment it sounds pretty good. Add in intensify vulnerability from the weapon implement later on. That could be really great damage.
A sustained AoE blaster with some ranged "auto" attacks to weave in in between the blasts. So more of a Mage playstyle.
An elemental switch hitter, focusing on the Elemental Blasts with some AoE thrown in there. Kinda more of a more martial/archer playstyle.
I'd honestly prefer it to go more into direction 2, that seems more novel and fun to me. Optimally they could build for both. Right now i think they cant do either. The impuls feats competing with class feats really feels like you get shafted either way. I think you should honestly get both at the same time (which is how i read it first and it still seemed weak).
And most of the blasts cost like 4 actions (with regathering), so You cant really weave in attacks. In the same time the attacks dont have a damage boost.
Right now the class feels weaker than a druid with a bow that only casts Electric Arc and no other spells. scratch that, cantrip only bow druid actually sounds stronger for quite a while.
Great Guide, some general tips for spell selection and item choices would be nice. Maybe a closer rating of the specific cantrips and amps all the subclasses get.
Maybe a rating of class feats and recommended archetypes.
I think you are undervaluing Gathered Lore. A general Aid action you can use for anything an ally might do in reach that is just focused to one skill is pretty great. You can just prep it and save it for the maguses big spellstrike or use it when an ally makes an important save against a nasty spell. Since you don't have to declare what you aid in until you do you can take your pick. Special shout out to human in here for Cooperative nature.
I'd also go into detail about CHA vs INT.
I am currently very undecided for the distant grasp psychic I will play in PFS. CHA has better skill feats, intimidation and bon mot are great for debuffing your enemies. Bon Mot can make them susceptible for Will saves, which as an occult caster you likely have. The healing from emotional acceptence is pretty nice.
INT gives more skills. With gathered lore I would focus on occultism, but skill feats are generally a bit less impressive with INT skills. I personally really like the gathered lore psychic action.
My first impression is that it seems a little rough. I like the flavour of it but it might need as many adjustments as the magus did because what's here is often rather weak.
The elemental blasts are cool but they really need some form of damage boost.
They get blast barrage at level 4 which is honestly pretty terrible. You get the third attack for free but that will rarely do something.
Chain Blast is more like it, that one is great but comes online later.
Maybe some high impact melee feats? The class is a nice switch hitter, give them some archer like feats. Right now there also seems very little reason to go into melee range. Maybe increase the dice by one size if used in melee?
The class really needs a damage boost for these blasts. Someone here already said CON to damage, half on ranged, which is exactly what I was picturing. Otherwise a d4 ranged attack with no added damage is NOT great. Seems better to use elemental weapon and summon a bow, but at this point you are as effective as a person with a Bow without any class benefits.
With the damage these AOE options deal and the damage the blasts deal, current Kin is about as strong as a caster with a Bow that doesnt use any spells other that Electric arc. Because EA blows a lot of the AOE that kin gets out of the water tbh.
I think the dedicated gate should also get more impulse feats at later levels, not just at first. Otherwise, as others said, being dedicated to one doesnt give enough.
The first level Impuls feats all give a small aoe option. Water seems to get the best one, with adaptable AoE, and the highest damage. Air can have high payoff over two turns. Stone is like a worse air. And fire is so ridiculously bad that I don't even know. It has a smaller area (unless you attack enemies that for some reason are stacked like a totem pole), just a single d6 damage and hightens only every 3 levels? Oof. Why. I expected fire to be the best here.
A way to bring in cold and lightning is required. Either give air and water blasts versatile, OR and I kinda like that option, make it a 1st level feat or Impuls that gives these elements an entirely new Blast with new traits that deals this damage. Maybe also requiring to gather said element so it doesn't make air and water too versatile. Additionally this feat could also change the air and water impulses that deal physical damage to this damage Type if you have gathered it (forcing the change if the element is gathered, again to keep it from being too versatile).
Ill just copy what i said in the last Tierlist discussion. Its less oriented in something easily objectifyable and more on a combination of combat effectiveness and how well they fit into a party. Which is why champion is so high for example. I think nobody would go "oh no we have a champion in our party". They tank hits, protect allies and can single handedly take care of out of combat healing.
myself wrote:
think tier lists are an interesting exercise and while I, as many others, think that pf2 is really well balanced I think there are some classes that are better than others and some that are worse. Someone in this thread said we all know that bard is better than witch, which is kinda what I'm aiming at.
I think one could probably get away with 4 Tiers, being "best", "better" "average" and "worse/subpar". Thinking about it I thought 3 would be enough but I think there are so classes I consider borderline between best and average.
The "best" classes: Bard, Druid, Fighter, Champion, Rogue
You could probably also put Cleric and Barbarian into the best tier and Magus into average if you wanna boil it down to 3. Barbarian in best tier might be a more out there pick but I might be biased because I dm for a party where the dragon Barbarian is honestly one of the less experienced or tactical players but this class f@&&ing decimates enemies. The crits are absolutely insane. And the -1 AC does make them squishier but they still have loads of HP. Might be a tainted opinion because they have a Champion protecting them.
I think many people are tempted to just have martials in top tier, but bard and druid are there 100%. Very versatile classes. A storm druid with animal order explorer can provide a flanking buddy, has a focus spell that is excellent for both damage and debuffing. Their Aoe quickly becomes pretty strong with the primal spell list and they can still take care of healing. All while having higher defenses than other casters.
The cleric is on borderline simply because healing font. Getting a bunch of free max level heal spells is just that good. But they have some weak points through their spell lkst which is why i dont put them in top.
For Thaumaturge and Psychic i cant really say yet. As i havent seen them in action.
I'd probably put Psychic into average. They have some great support tools (amped message, amped guidance, Gathered Lore Psyche action), fantastic focus spells (shatter Mind is pretty insane tbh) and unleashed pushes their damage further. They have some weak points though, like at level 12 other casters catch up to their focus point renewal, while psychics only improves normally. They also have some wonky +2 scaling on some stuff. These things hold them back.
Thaumaturge ishonestly probably borderline if not top. I think their damage can be pretty great and stuff like scroll thaumaturgy and diverse Lore gives them really good utility.
My favourite Iteration of a monk in any TTRPG so far.
I like that I can go strenght or dex, that both are viable, that I can Focus on ki spells or leave them out completely, that there even is a stance that ignores dex, and that weapons are also a possibility. A class that is very fun to build. Their stances also make for fun builds.
Flurry of blows has the advantage of freeing up your Action economy a lot and makes you even more mobile. A monk can be everywhere they are needed on the battlefield and still have two attacks.
There are some things I would still like for the monk but the Design space is pretty open for that luckily.
- id love more stances. Especially high damage ones. Another d10 stance would be nice, or even a d12 stance that has some sort of draw back (maybe like the stance occupying both hands, essentially making it a twohanded stance).
- the monk really thirsts for another Action. Often you move and then flurry and then you have this last Action hanging around. I really like the Single Action that buffs your damage from the heavenseeker archetype, but it is currently too busted. A more balanced one would really be a godsend. Since you are so MAD and dont get many skills, focusing on say intimidation to have a third action feels kinda bad.
- shields: technically a monk is best with a shield. Use said third action to raise it. There really is no reason to not have a shield as a monk. I kinda dislike that Since I hate the visual. A monk action that imitates shield would be cool.
- weapons: honestly the only good one is the bo staff giving you reach trip and parry. The temple sword is ok. The staff just seems like its the best choice by far. I am really confused that many monk weapons would NERF Our damage by being a d4 when you have d6 fists. Kinda baffling
A good addition for a Thaum Guide would be what kinda scrolls and Talismans are good to get for the tome and talisman feats.
Potency Crystal is useful, even if you get a +1 weapon soon at this point the extra damage is very nice.
Owlbear claw is also great below level 5 especially if you go with a flickmace. In case you DONT go for weapon implement it is useful even longer since in that case you dont gain crit spec at level 5
Beyond that other good ones are jade cat, snapleaf, Fear gem, though those seem more situational then the early ones.
If it is a Tierlist simply for being versatile... Sure. But in that case I would call it that.
Though the Tier 1 description mentions not only versatility but also being great at all these things. A wizard can fill a lot of roles but I'd say is more of a jack of all trades. They can do great damage (in AoE, but less so single target), tackle many utility problems and social problems with spells and also buff and debuff. But in a lot of those aspects they lag behind other classes that do it better. Which I'd argue puts them in tier 2 by your definition. I'd argue no class really fits that tier 1 description. It also undervalues specialists a lot. The barbarians damage alone makes it a great asset in a team as their speciality (hitting very hard) will be useful very often.
I also think that Champion should be higher. They can deal decent damage (paladin), debuff (redeemer), prevent damage, heal (with a short buff) and charisma makes them a decent face. They also single handedly solve out of combat healing which is incredibly valuable at level 1 and 2 especially (before continual recovery comes online)
Oof that encounter in EC is a harsh one. And right next to it is another dangerous one.
The two crits are honestly unfortunate and probably the reason for the TPK. I think the encounter says the enemies try to shove PCs into the open grave so maybe you could have done that instead.
I was really worried going into this encounter. Aside from one person my group aren't gamers, they aren't very tactical and while they had 5e experience that one is easier. But the encounter set up the theme for future encounters in this AP which is my wife's dragon barbarian absolutely decimating enemies. In the end it comes down to the rolls and two crits can quickly turn the tides at low levels.
I don't own the book yet so I've had to scour content creators for the full texts of Unleash Psyche and Violent Unleash. Please bear that in mind in case I'm missing any crucial details. Until AoN has the content, if everyone shared all relevant text when asking a question that'd be greaaat
1. Unleash Psyche is a free action with a trigger of "Your turn begins."
2. The start of your turn is very structured, and detailed on CR 468-469. First, you reduce the duration of effects lasting a number of rounds. Second, you can use 1 free action or reaction with a trigger of "Your turn begins" or something similar. Third, if you're dying roll a recovery check. Fourth, do anything else that is specified to happen at the start of your turn such as regaining HP from fast healing or regeneration
Then the book goes out of its way to say, (and I'm paraphrasing to the essentials for this question) "The last step of starting your turn is always the same. Regain your 3 actions and 1 reaction. <snip text about not saving unused actions or reactions> If a condition prevents you from being able to act, you don't regain any actions or your reactions. Some abilities or conditions (such as quickened and slowed) can change how many actions you regain and whether you regain your reaction. <snip text about both gaining and losing actions>
Stunned is such a condition
3. Violent Unleash is a free action with a trigger of "You Unleash your Psyche." We're still at the "Your turn begins" phase of starting our turn. We become stunned 1, but then at the end of starting our turn we immediately lose 1 of our 3 actions and stunned 1 is reduced to zero and removed
That would work for Violent Unleash but would be an incredibly weird way of writing this ability. A free action ability that makes you lose 1 action as a downside. Why would the ability not instead just cost an action for exactly the same outcome?
Also while this would explain how violent unleash works it would not help with Forbidden Thought. Potentially losing all actions on a normal fail would make this Amp incredibly powerful
That seems... excessive. I mean AoA and Ec both have some spicey encounters but either you are extremely unlucky or your players are doing something wrong.
Are they continuing adventuring while on lower health? Does nobody have treat wounds? Is your party splitting up? Do they run into unexplored rooms while in an encounter, combining multiple encounters? Are you using pathbuilder for character building to make sure your players are adding their stats right?
Even if you are playing the monsters like hyper intelligent highly coordinated hit squads that pick out the squishy chars with one glance and also attack down PCs i cannot imagine doing this repeatedly.
Very pleased with the class by first impression. Distant Grasp looks pretty good, the extra reach and guaranteed shove on a hit for amp make it pretty sweet and with the heightened amp and unleashed psyche it looks like pretty decent damage output.
Telekinetic Rend is a lot better than in the playtest but I am rather sad it still hightens at +2. That just makes it feel bad at half the levels. I mean at least for the amp you could have done 1d6 per level and still amount to the same as 2d6 every two levels.
I think this cantrip is good if both amped and unleashed. Just amped I think you'd need at least hit 4 creatures for it to be worth it, maybe 3. The Fort save is also unfortunate, could have really been reflex.
I always planned a charisma psychic and when I heard in know direction one of them can heal I thought that's gonna be the best one. But gathered lore looks amazing, get cooperative nature and that's usable from level 1 on. Gunslingers Fake out is one of my fave feats and whole this isn't just as good (since fake out doesn't need an action to set it up) it's still pretty amazing.
The level 10 action for emotional acceptence does seem better but since I play mostly PFS if I'm not GMing I worry less about feats of that level.
Im a sucker for monk stances so would love to see more of those, especially lvl 1 ones with follow up feats.
My big wish is essentially a twohand monk. The stance has the big disadvantage of having both your hands count as occupied while you are in it. In exchange the stance has a d12 damagd dice, with maybe shove as a trait. I think that would be balanced.
A katana based monk just to go full weeb.
Another grappling stance would be nice. Gorilla Was a bit of a letdown tbh, with the follow up feat being intimidation based instead of grapple based.
I'd also like to see more sorcerer subclasses. Id love to finally have one that can rival elemental. Thinking of elemental, with how weird it is regarding damage types (everything is bludgeoning), i would like a cold themed sorcerer and an electric themed sorcerer.
I also majorly love the idea people already mentioned here, a death/decay/mushroom druid
That all sounds pretty sweet! I understand the sentiment that if psychic can use Focus spells 5 rounds in a combat they needed to be weaker, but that left the psychic with doing weak stuff as their main class Feature.
I especially hope for the distant grasp options to become stronger. I liked them but they just felt so damn weak. The unamped version was Borderline unusable imo. So i hope the unamped Focus cantrips also get some love.
Thaumaturge ideas Sound amazing! The stuff that was there was already so fun so im excited for more. Also hope the scroll feat stays!
For level 1 Munitions Crafter is such a nice thing for me. Getting free ammo is nice if your DM is more stingy with it or likes ammo to be to be a rarer thing in their world. Also has nice follow up feats with alchemical shot (not technicallly a follow up feet but might as well be one)
Stand outs for me are:
Fake Out: super fun feat, making your slinger a great support. Its not quite clear if the reaction unloads your weapon but from my understanding it doesnt.
Risky Reload: Great Dps boost!
Called Shot: Another great way of making your slinger a supporter!
Paired Shots is realy strong but i wish it came online at level 2. Bit annoying that you have to wait so long until your dual wielding concept really comes to fruition.
Twin Shot Knockdown: You gotta hit both attacks, but thats why you have legendary proficiency. Knocking prone at range is amazing!
Duds feel like:
Warning Shot: Very thematic but this is literally just intimidating glare that requires you to spend an action to reload. Sure, the added reach can be nice but not really worth it.
Blast lock allows to not invest into thievery, but since you are dex class thievery isnt a bad investment either way so i think the feat is more niche.
Dual Weapon Reload i am rather disappointed by. I think it should at the very least interact with the slingers reload, so a dual wiedling pistolero or spellshot can make use of it. Or, if it doesnt interact with slingers reload, it should reload both guns with one action. Right now it is one of the most "feat-tax"y feats out there.
Pistol twirl would be good if it also reloaded the gun imo.
Blast Tackle: Ok now this is a great feat actually. Why do i put it under duds? Because it perfectly encompases what Vanguard is supposed to be but comes online way too late. Vanguard is supposed to be the close range shotgun wielder but all the feats that really enforce this come online too late. Blast Tackle and Siegbreaker are what the Vanguard should be about but only come online at 14/15.
More guns and more crossbows. Especially ones with capacity and repeating.
Personally i found it kinda weird that air repeater is a simple weapon and when you remove agile and up the dice just one step it becomes advanced (repeating crossbow). I feel like there could have been a martial one handed repeating weapon.
Same with capacity. I love the idea of dual wielding pistols, as do artists it seems because there is a lot of that in the book. I'd personally love for some simple capacity weapons. Maybe simply so that i can dual wield guns from character creation on because damn pepperbox and slide pistol are expensive. One handed weapon with kickback would have been cool too.
Aside from that "close range guns" would have been nice for vanguard. I love the idea of the subclass of stepping into close range with a shotgun and blasting foes from up close but there is actually no real weapon that fits this style well and the only feats for it come online at level 14/15. So i guess: more close range shotgun style guns and more close range feats for vanguard.
People compare to the alchemist, but the alchs problem was never starting 1 lower in dex. It always was their proficiency. If alchemists had normal martial proficiency it would have a lot less Problems. I think the other "utility martials" like inventor and the playtest thaumaturge and investigator kinda prove that. I know alchemist is still a bit different from those classes, but still.
Cool concept. I wish they example art was a little less "this is the whole monster taxidermied" and more focused on parts of the monster I guess?
...I'm approaching it from a Monster Hunter aesthetic expectation I guess.
Agreed on the issue of static DCs.
Its weird because the flavour text of the weapons kinda decribes them as a gun with monster parts, like the first picture of a beast gunner holding a gun has a dragons head attached to the weapon instead of the gun looking like a whole ass dragon.
Th text for the tentacle cannon describes it as:
"The weapon itself resembles a five-barreled
handheld cannon with each barrel made
from a hollowed out tentacle."
The art in the meantime looks like a whole alghollthu. The only weapon that mentions taxidermy is the petrification gun.
Ill just imagine beast guns like the one on page 130
Wes "Wildfire" Santana: A dual wielding Daredevil on the journey of either escaping or maybe paying back his gambling debt and becoming a better person along the way.
Mechanical Details:
Ancestry: Human (Ifrit)
Background: Gambler
Class: Gunslinger (Way of the Pistolero)
Weapons: Eventually either two Slide pistols or A slide pistol and an air repeater. But will start out with a pepperbox and no armor because these guns be expensive. If i know my GM will let me buy guns easily ill maybe start with a cheaper one.
After looking around more, I can sort of see where the OP is coming from but I'm having a much tougher time with Vanguard.
The reload action increments MAP and... IDK I feel like shove is one of the lower value athletics actions in general too. This makes the standard shoot-reload-shoot a bit awkward for the vanguard.
And then you have Living fortification. AC Bonuses are cool and all but it lasts until the start of your first turn on a class with high perception. The ability gets worse the better your initiative and you naturally have a good initiatve. There's a really good chance the ability just doesn't do anything.
Spinning Crush comes online earlier than other, similar skills... but a d6 base die makes its damage a little weak and as with similar activites it's awkward to activate a 3 action skill that requires you to be surrounded.
Siegebreaker is cool. You charge into battle, do a strike with a some solid bonus damage and get a defensive buff too. It's very thematic, basically completely condenses the idea of the Way... my only problem with this skill is that it feels so emblematic of what the Way represents it feels really bad it comes online at level 15. Before that you really don't care about being in melee range (unless you want to Shove) and you don't have anything incentivizing a scatter weapon.
Blast Tackle is kind of similar in that it feels very on point to unload your shotgun into someone you're grabbing but it comes online insanely late.
Nothing wrong with Phalanx breaker but why does Vanguard need three different ways to Push people? It just doesn't really feel like it captures that whole feeling of getting in the thick of it with a big gun.
Spellshot feels weird too. The reload action has the same problem as Pistolero with only being using a limited number of times per combat... and the math on dispelling bullet isn't super great and requires you to go hard on INT to make it work. Overall it's not terrible, imo, but unlike the other ways it costs your...
Yeah my exact thoughts on vanguard. Everything that sells the archetype comes online at 14/15. Super sad.
Spellshot is weird. In one way i understand why its an archetype and in other ways i dont really. I actually think the reaction that gives a reload on a miss is pretty great. The free ammo would be nice but the Munition first level feat kinda takes care of free ammo and doesnt have big competition at that level. The way is also decent at triggering weaknesses, playing into the recall knowledge reload.
It was confirmed that Capacity weapons work with the slingers reload. So the best way for dual wielding is using pepper Box and or slide pistols.
I was actually pretty iffy about as well because i thought Slingers reload doesnt work with capacity but i think it works rather well now.
I still wish dual weapon reload was different. Its a feat tax that doesnt give you any Real action avantage. I wish it would allow to reload both weapons at the same time, or at least use capacity on both weapons at the same time. Or at the very least be a passive so it works with Slingers reload.
Another way to dual wield (besides going for repeating hand crossbows) is using double barreled pistols. You need dual weapon reload for that, but it would give you 3 turns of using reload and paired shots. After those 3 turns youd hit a wall unfortunately but most combats dont last longer.
Im actually mostly iffed that paired shots only comes online at level 4. Before that there is no real reason to dual wield. I prefer builds to come online as soon as possible, double slice also comes online earlier.
That said paired shots is really really good so dual wielding should be worth it i think.
Honestly the more i think about capacity weapons working with reload feats the more attractive Paired Shots gunslinger seems. Sayres comment implies the switching of capacity IS a reload, so it would also work with running reload and risky reload. The playstle is very turret-y though.
A more fun way of dual wielding might be a Drifter with two guns, each having a bayonet. Probably a more fun playstyle, if less effective.
If we are talking about one gunslinger way being weaker than the rest its probably Vanguard. I love the visual of running in with a shotgun smacking people, blasting them from up close and using your gun for defense. But the weapon choices kinda dont support this playstyle and the fun feats only come online pretty late. Phalanx breaker doesnt require you to be up close. The shove is nice for getting people out of AoO reach or helping allies but it also raises your MAP. I honestly kinda wish it gave you the choice to use parry with the reload, turn one is probably where the free parry you get is least useful. Spinning Crush requiring 3 actions makes it pretty niche and the damage seems only okayish as well considering the action cost, but its really nice should you get swarmed (i actually also dont know if this unloads your weapon, you dont seem to get an actual ranged strike from it)
Siege breaker and Blast tackle are finally exactly what i want from this way but only come online at 14,15.
The biggest problem though is that none of the weapons really benefit from you getting up close. Blunderbus and dwarven scattergun are probably your go-tos butthe scatter effect actually doesnt benefit from you being up close. hell, since its splash damage it would even damage yourself should you use it in melee. And 40/50 reach is still enough to stay in the backline. Not to speak that the damage from scatter is pretty low. I hoped for a way to boost it as a feat for vanguard but there is none. So until level 14 you have very little incentive to actually get up close. Stab and blast is also there, but using it with a scatter weapon damages yourself
I personally would have hoped for some more dual weapon Support with pistolero. The Art for the sample build wields two pistols, and there is a lot more dual pistol Art in the book. And for that its kinda clunky.
That said Michael sayre said that capacity weapons are supposed to interact with the gunslinger reloads! Would be nice if they could clear that up for dual weapon reload as well.
The best ways to dual wield would be air repeaters, but the damage would be abyssmal.
With gunslinger reload working with capacity, dual pepper boxes or slide pistols are probably really good as well.
My first way of achieving it was actually with the double barreled pistols and i still think its good, albeit for shorter combat. They do have two shots loaded, so with dual weapon reload you could Paired Shots three turns in a row before you get to an empty turn, with capacity you reach an empty turn after two turns and with pepper boxes you have to switch weapons after the next one.
I honestly wish that dual weapon reload actually would reload both weapons at once. Or at least allow two capacity reloads at once. The way it is now, it is pretty much just a dual wielder feat tax.
And i do think all this is on topic because it seems like dual wielding is the way to go for pistolero. Paired Shots is honestly pretty damn strong.
Thaumaturge seems pretty great. Some more implements will be nice, like a shield and maybe something for ranged, like a quiver or sth. Some more crossbow Support.
Probably an auto leveling Lore skill to use with Find Flaws so you dont have to level 6 skills.
The psychic seems super cool in concept but way undertuned. The psy cantrips are rather weak aside from Massage. Telekinetic Rend is disappointingly weak. Borderline unusable unamped and only mildly better than electric arc amped. A lot of the normal cantrips are also not that great amped.
But generally i always wanted a more Focus point focused class and the cantrip upgrading thing vibes greatly with me.
