How do folks feel about Beast Guns?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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Howdy

Just like the tagline. I actually had no clue Beast Guns were a thing until recently. They're cool sounding!

I'm curious how folks like them, or any neat combos they feel?


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The fact that what the beastgunner archetype does is tied to beast guns and not to the spellshot archetype irks me a little bit. That aside they are ok, would be way better if we got more variety, though.

Most of them are also items with fixed modifiers/DCs, that in combination with being the kind of item you center a character around makes those weapon end up in a weird spot with them clearly lagging behind at some levels.

Some of them are also a unique type of martial weapon instead of using a pre-existing weapon. While cool, the beast guns that do that end up being worse versions of weapons that already exist.

I love the design space these weapons provide, but I think we need more and also slighly better beast weapons in general.


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I wish that more of them didn't use saves (since they item DCs don't scale well), but I love them on concept alone; they give vibes of borderlands E tech guns mixed with monster hunter in the best possible way. I really hope they make more


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In general, it's not an aesthetic that appeals much to me.

However, I've played with a lot of people who would go utterly ga-ga for them, and I'm glad that they exist.


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It would have been neat if the Beast Gunner Dedication let you use your Class DC/Spell DC for a Beast Gun that you bonded to. Seems like the kind of thing it should do.

Otherwise, I do quite dig the beast guns.


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Cool concept. I wish they example art was a little less "this is the whole monster taxidermied" and more focused on parts of the monster I guess?

...I'm approaching it from a Monster Hunter aesthetic expectation I guess.

Agreed on the issue of static DCs.


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They have the same issues as other specific magic items (DCs don't scale well), but they're neat in concept. Also give us a d10 gun in the Drake Rifle, which is nice.


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Dubious Scholar wrote:

Cool concept. I wish they example art was a little less "this is the whole monster taxidermied" and more focused on parts of the monster I guess?

...I'm approaching it from a Monster Hunter aesthetic expectation I guess.

Agreed on the issue of static DCs.

Its weird because the flavour text of the weapons kinda decribes them as a gun with monster parts, like the first picture of a beast gunner holding a gun has a dragons head attached to the weapon instead of the gun looking like a whole ass dragon.

Th text for the tentacle cannon describes it as:
"The weapon itself resembles a five-barreled
handheld cannon with each barrel made
from a hollowed out tentacle."

The art in the meantime looks like a whole alghollthu. The only weapon that mentions taxidermy is the petrification gun.

Ill just imagine beast guns like the one on page 130

Scarab Sages

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Looking like another case of "great concept, sloppy execution"


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Angel Hunter D wrote:
Looking like another case of "great concept, sloppy execution"

I think calling it "sloppy" is rather unfair. A couple are rather underpowered, but they are a perfectly acceptable option.

Their design isn't particularly flawed in any way, they just have the same limitations as most specific weapons, particularly those without an "upgrade" option later on. If you are like me and don't like your permanent items to have a limited lifespan, then they are not going to be very attractive to you, which is a bit of a bummer, but fine.


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Karmagator wrote:
Angel Hunter D wrote:
Looking like another case of "great concept, sloppy execution"

I think calling it "sloppy" is rather unfair. A couple are rather underpowered, but they are a perfectly acceptable option.

Their design isn't particularly flawed in any way, they just have the same limitations as most specific weapons, particularly those without an "upgrade" option later on. If you are like me and don't like your permanent items to have a limited lifespan, then they are not going to be very attractive to you, which is a bit of a bummer, but fine.

Specific weapons as a whole are pretty badly done. Half the time they're already obsolete the level you get them and the other half their special abilities are either anemic or fail to scale so that they're obsolete the level after you get them. Not to mention the issues they run into with not being made of precious materials or not adding extra runes later. It's a little depressing when something like it shows up and the best use for it is selling it to the nearest vendor.

Beast guns are just more of the same instead of attempting any kind of course correction.


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Angel Hunter D wrote:
Looking like another case of "great concept, sloppy execution"

I dont really want to call it sloppy, since they are literally just "beast gunner Dedication allowing you to use your class or spell dc if higher. If your bonded beast guns called for a skill check, such as the tentacle cannons grapple, you may also substitute in your own skill bonus if higher" away from being totally kick ass


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They are nice.

At first I was not sure in terms of powercreep ( I though we'd have seen plenty, like the flickmace adventurers ), but given the 3 static DC they are pretty balanced ( and can give the wielder a reason to hunt and track down a bigger specimen).

I also appreciate that the beast gunner is not a must have when it comes to beast guns.


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Monster hunter and Mario 7vstars makes me want to play a poppet beast gunner. Maybe I'll go with a playtest thaumaturge with it haha

I like drake and spiker

I certainly wish there was a skill feat or rune or something that would boost the DC

I love me beast guns but it's has some annoyance in DC. I wish they were con based to represent the actual physical bond. And I feel like they aren't innate magic and shouldn't be charisma based. None of the trials make sense for it being charisma over con like a symbiosis.

Scarab Sages

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gesalt wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
Angel Hunter D wrote:
Looking like another case of "great concept, sloppy execution"

I think calling it "sloppy" is rather unfair. A couple are rather underpowered, but they are a perfectly acceptable option.

Their design isn't particularly flawed in any way, they just have the same limitations as most specific weapons, particularly those without an "upgrade" option later on. If you are like me and don't like your permanent items to have a limited lifespan, then they are not going to be very attractive to you, which is a bit of a bummer, but fine.

Specific weapons as a whole are pretty badly done. Half the time they're already obsolete the level you get them and the other half their special abilities are either anemic or fail to scale so that they're obsolete the level after you get them. Not to mention the issues they run into with not being made of precious materials or not adding extra runes later. It's a little depressing when something like it shows up and the best use for it is selling it to the nearest vendor.

Beast guns are just more of the same instead of attempting any kind of course correction.

That's exactly what I was getting at, although to be fair I should have taken the time to say it better.

As soon as they were specific magic items they were DoA.

Paizo Employee Director of Community

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Removed a spam post and the resulting commentary. Please just flag and continue your discussion.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Some of them are pretty cool, but I'm once again bummed there's no way to adjust DCs or anything like that. I get Paizo's worried about low level items with jacked up DCs, but it gives some of these weapons really short shelf lives and generally when I see a player eyeballing a weapon like this it's because they want it to be their signature thing, not something they use for two or three levels and throw away.

Can't help but wonder if some of the disappointment might be expectations too. The promotional material kind of made beast guns sound like a whole new thing, not just more specific magic weapons.


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I think that DCs should have been done as Weapon Proficiency+X.

So a level 10, expert in firearms, would have DC 14+X on beast gun special abilities, with X depending on the gun. Higher tier guns can have a bigger X, you could put a "maximum expert" or something, etc.


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Just any way to increase DCs on items that's readily available to all characters, even if it takes a bit of investment, would be nice.

While automatic scaling can be awkward for items that give bonuses that are useful regardless of level (like Slowed 1 is always a useful debuff to apply, but 2d6 damage becomes trivial), an investment gate (probably currency-based) could allow a player to keep using that cool magic sword they found.


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Would be cool thematically to have something like that that grows with you.

Would be pretty neatif you could have a firearm that grew with you like it was part of you.


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Zwordsman wrote:

Would be cool thematically to have something like that that grows with you.

Would be pretty neatif you could have a firearm that grew with you like it was part of you.

I too support more people fusing with their weapons as depicted in Videodrome.


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They could always errata the DC

Scarab Sages

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nicholas storm wrote:
They could always errata the DC

How many years are we gonna bet on the errata time? What's the over/under we're looking at?


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Angel Hunter D wrote:
nicholas storm wrote:
They could always errata the DC
How many years are we gonna bet on the errata time? What's the over/under we're looking at?

9 years to Never


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Alchemic_Genius wrote:
Angel Hunter D wrote:
Looking like another case of "great concept, sloppy execution"
I dont really want to call it sloppy, since they are literally just "beast gunner Dedication allowing you to use your class or spell dc if higher. If your bonded beast guns called for a skill check, such as the tentacle cannons grapple, you may also substitute in your own skill bonus if higher" away from being totally kick ass

In my game I'd houserule that as being an archetype feat you can take at level 6+ probly ?

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