Sea Dragon

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My group stated Shards of Sin a few sessions back, and it's a pretty large group - 7 players (swashbuckler, witch, oracle, rogue, fighter, bloodrager, and paladin). I decided to not scale things up, other then some minor tweaks but they have been having amazing bad luck. For example, when they encountered the lone sorcerer in the warehouse, the three front liners (swashbuckler, fighter and bloodrager) all dropped due to color spray. The paladin wasn't there and the sorcerer ended up capturing them all. All in all they have been struggling

But the current problem is that they gotten to the fight with Natalya and after slogging thru the muck, fighting the goblins, they ended up in pretty good shape so I figured that the fight would go their way but that didn't happened. Suffice to say they left the building with their tails between their legs. It was either that or a TPK. But now I'm in a bit of quandary.

What I was thinking is to have the tower girl lieutenant who is outside, take this opportunity to attack the weakened Natalya and seize the shard. But the question is where do I go from there do I
1) Have her return to the tower girls and try a takeover
2) Have her decide like Natalya that she needs to hold up somewhere
3) Something else?

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.

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As mentioned, the Archive of Nethys site gives both tables:

Reincarnation Spell

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Disguise Self really doesn't work (RAW) as it can't change creature type. Alter self looks like it can. One question I have is when the Polymorpth Any Object says permanent, it it really permanent or can it be dispelled? Does it interfere with other polymorph effects? And does it really change you to the type of creature or is it just sort of just a looking like the creature or really the creature?

What I'm thinking is that I could in principle use PAO to change into a silver dragon, and then use the shape change ability of the silver dragon to be humanoid. But I suspect that the bottom line is that PAO doesn't really make you the creature but just gives you something like the Form of Dragon spell, and makes you look like one not really one. Not that my GM will let me do that...not sure there would be any GM that would let someone actually play a dragon :(

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That is indeed the table he used. I think Polymorph any Object with a +9 on the table to make it permanent is probably the simplest solution. Just will need to stay away from dispel magic and polymorph effects.

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I did ask about that. My GM doesn't subscribe to the idea that reincarnation preserves the creature type. As seen by the Aasimar -> Wyvaran :) I like the idea of posing as a gold dragon but I'm not sure if that is really in scope of disguise self spell from the hat. I have a feeling that a scroll of polymorph any object might be a cost effective solution. If I go back to Aasimar, other than prohibiting me from using polymorph on myself, it might work ok.

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Except the characters playing as nobles and while I can say that I've been reincarnated and it's not my fault.. I'm fine being a wyvaran, and don't mind embracing it. However, the GM (who created this mess) is warning that it will be an issue. I'm thinking maybe a custom magic item that can do alter self with a long durations or something like that.

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No problem. Of course, my GM sees the paragon surge as an example of why the hex should be a fixed list. He seems to think that paragon is equally static, which makes no sense to me as that is not what the FAQ is talking about at all. It is only static for the day, not forever.

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I'm playing the War for the Crown AP, and for better or worse I started the campaign as an Aasimar shaman. Two of the party ended up dying recently, and the party decided to reincarnated us. The other player got reincarnated as a human, I however got reincarnated as a Wyvaran. Being an Aasimar was not great for the campaign but with Scion of humanity it was manageable. Being a Wyvaran is infinitely worse as it's clear he's not human and it's intrigue campaign in a mostly human area. So I looking for ideas on how to either a) hide the fact that I'm a Wyvaran, or b) get permanently changed into some other race that would fit better in the campaign.

I do have a hat of disguise, and can cast shaman spells to hide but was wondering if there are other options, items, suggestions on how to better fit into a human-centric society.


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I can't find the extra arcane FAQ. And the paragon one seems to only be talking about using paragon surge multiple times in a given day, as opposed to using it on successive days.

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If you can change the spell list daily, then I agree. My DM however sees this as something that is fixed upon taking the hex. From that point onward until you level, the list is the same on any subsequent day. So for my shaman that is 4 arcane spells between 0-3rd level that I can add to my shaman spell list. I can change one spell from that list when he levels up.

It's not a bad feature, just not how I interpreted the rules as written. I thought that it would be a new list each day.

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From my perspective the shaman is a poor mix of abilities. The other hybrids try to blend the two classes but here you can do witch kinds of things or oracle kinds of things but not both. I'm playing a life spirit shaman and chose aasimar as my race. In retrospect, human would really have been a better choice. I'm finding the shaman spell list a very eclectic mixture of spells, and spirit magic is a limited expansion of choices based on the available spirit. The wandering hex looks like a great addition but action economy is hampered by most hexes beign standard actions, and no real swift actions. I'm planning on my next hex (8th level) will be chant to get a way to do hex things better. His role as party healer if fine with life spirit. I was just looking for a way to improve spell choices for planned encounters.

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I did have the discussion with him, and he sees it that once the hex is selected, the list is frozen and may only be modified when my shaman gains a level. Thus the wandering hex acts the same as if I chose lore spirit as my primary spirit and then took the arcane enlightenment hex.

It wasn't really the answer I was looking for as I like the added flexibility that it allows on a daily basis if I have a need to access spells outside the shaman's normal list + spirit magic. With a fixed list, it is not nearly as attractive an option. It's not bad, 4 up to 3rd level spells with his stats, but it loses the versatility that I really like about this option as a wandering hex.

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My shaman just got the wandering hex class ability, and looking over the list of possible hexes, I came across Arcane Enlightenment which allows the shaman to add sorcerer/wizard spells to his spell list. The text for this hex was obviously written from the point of view that this is your chosen spirit and you are adding this hex as one of your hex choices, and not a wandering one. I found several older threads about this from 2014, and rather than necro one of those, I figured I'd ask anew what the thoughts are on this. The older threads seem to have come to no real consensus.

Arcane Enlightenment (Su): The shaman’s native intelligence grants her the ability to tap into arcane lore. The shaman can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman spells she can prepare. To cast these spells she must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell’s level, but the saving throw DCs of these spells are based on her Wisdom rather than Intelligence. When she casts these spells, they are treated as divine rather than arcane. Each time the shaman gains a level after taking this hex, she can choose to replace one of these spells for a new spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list.

Wandering Hex: At 6th level, a shaman can temporarily gain the use of one of the hexes possessed by either one of her spirits. She must make this selection each day when she prepares her spells. For the purposes of this ability, she can select any hex possessed by her spirit or wandering spirit. If she selects it from her wandering spirit, she loses the hex immediately if she bonds with another spirit, although she can then select a different hex to gain using this ability, from either her spirit or her new wandering spirit. At 14th level, a shaman can select two wandering hexes each day instead of one. This ability otherwise functions as the hex class feature.

The question is if you take this hex as a wandering hex, is the list of spells added to your spell list fixed and can only be modified once per level or since you loose this hex at the end of the day is the spell list established when you take the hex and can be modified each time you chose the wandering hex.

It is unclear, at least to me, why the list would be permanently established when you first chose to gained this as a wandering hex. As a permanent hex, sure I'm gain a permanent capability to augment my spell casting. As a temporary feature, it should be ephemeral as the spells fade at the end of the day.

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Archive of Nethys lists the Unicore bloodline spells as

Bonus Spells: cure light wounds (3rd), cure moderate wounds (5th), cure serious wounds (7th), neutralize poison (9th), atonement (11th), heal (13th), greater restoration (15th), mass cure critical wounds (17th), mass heal (19th).

And the same source lists the Phoenix class skill as Knowledge (Arcana). Odd but that is what is listed. A cursory look a the bloodline class skills don't have overlap with the sorcerer base class skills but I didn't do an exhaustive search.

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Thanks. I can see how delay poison can be read that way, and in fact, it is pretty clear that that was the intent. It seems a bit of a death trap/desperate spell. Depending on the situation, you can have DC and duration that have escalated to fatal levels. We are faced with a lot of highly poisonous spiders and I have few neutralize poisons to recover folks before the delay poison expires making it a risky approach.

I still think that the lack of communal delay poison is a mistake. It's on the witches list and it seems in line with the skills of a shaman.

Thanks again for the input.

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So two questions regarding communal delay poison

1) I'm currently playing a shaman and we have a need for delay poison, and so I looked on my spell list and saw that while I have delay poison, I do not have communal. I'm curious if this is just a oversight or do people think it was intentionally omitted. The other spell caster that has the communal version dropped is the oracle. While the shaman is a blend of oracle, they are also part witch and witches get the communal version. Just seems odd and was wonder what folks thought - intended omission or mistake?

2) This question is more about the mechanics of delay poison. I did some searches looking for comments about the communal version and saw post about how delay poison works that were not how I thought it worked. I believe that if I cast delay poison on someone 2 things happen. The target is 1) temporarily immune to any *new* exposures to poisons, and 2) any current poison effects are suspended till the spell wears off. But I saw many comments that implied that at each exposure, you need to make the saving throws, and while the consequences of that is deferred, the DC and duration can rise as with any repeat exposures to a given toxin. The spell is worded oddly in that it starts with "you are temporarily immune", and then goes on to talk about current poisons, and new exposures. My take on it is that delay poison makes you immune to any new instance of being poisoned, and that at the end of the spell, only poisons in your system before you had delay poison cast resume harming you.

How does the spell work? Is there consensus?

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I will also note that if the spell says Spell Resistance: Yes, then even though it is harmless you must bypass the target's spell resistance if any. This can be quite a pain for those cure spells. The target can lower his/her spell resistance but that is a standard action, and leaves you vulnerable for at least a round.

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So does Ki Rush in Tiger Stance give you 2 10 ft steps or 2 5 ft steps. It is clearer than Elf Step in that it states clearly you have 2 steps or 2 strides or one of each, with no length specified. But is it action step that is 5 or 10 ft? I would assume that it's 10 but requires the ki point. So very limited use, and it get's you concealment till your turn.

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I am playing an elven monk, and I really liked the "idea" of taking elven weapon familiarity. The problem is that the way it's worded, your proficiency with "elegant weapons" doesn't improve because the are martial weapons. The elven weapons are considered simple so that will increase as your proficiency with simple weapons. But none can be used with FoB. You can of course pick up the 13th level feat, elven weapon expertise to bring your bow proficiency up to snuff but it's going to lag for some time.

I just liked the idea of the Elf monk flurrying with an Elven curved blade. Seems appropriate.

So I'm not sure it's worth it. Take Nimble Elf instead and go with the mobile archer (w/short bow) or just mobile unarmed. Possibly add Monastic weapons to pick up bo staff for reach.

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That does bring up the question is the elven curved blade an advanced elf weapon or not. I can't find a definition of what is "an advanced weapon", elf or otherwise.

Does "For the purpose of determining your proficiency, martial elf weapons are simple weapons" mean that the bumps in simple weapon proficiency apply to the elven curved blade as my monk levels?

I'm beginning to think that the Elven Weapons Familiarity might not be a great choice for a monk. Just stick with short bow, and unarmed strike.

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Exactly. I was just curious about the Elven curved blade, more as an alternative, not something that I necessarily was going to focus on. The long bow however has decided advantages as a ranged weapon. And if they close to volley distance to my monk, I'll move to engage with Tiger stance/Tiger claw.

But FoB with the Elven blade would be cool, and something I could imagine an Elven monk being able to do.

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Started my first 2e game on Saturday and decided on a elf monk. I took elven weapon familiarity, and I have a couple of questions.

1) Does this allow the monk to wield the elven curved blade trained? The working is a bit unclear.

Elven Weapon Familiarity wrote:

You favor bows and other elegant weapons. You are trained with longbows, composite longbows, longswords, rapiers, shortbows, and composite shortbows.

In addition, you gain access to all uncommon elf weapons. For the purpose of determining your proficiency, martial elf weapons are simple weapons and advanced elf weapons are martial weapons.

Clearly you get trained in listed weapons, but the second clause seems to imply that things are tied to your proficiency. Does that mean that you don't have proficiency with advanced elf weapons, and where does the elven curved blade fall? Monks only have access to simple weapons.

2) I gather that RAW, you can't use any of these weapons with FoB, as that seems to be tied specifically to melee monk weapons.

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Funny we had a similar situation where we were all invisible and attacked a camp of bandits. A bandit heard a noise and walked into a square with one of the party. The GM give the character a reflex save to step out of the way. Certainly not rules as written but made sense that you should be able to avoid being run into by someone that didn't know you were there. A perception check for the bandit to notice the slight noise/blur etc. Seemed reasonable to the group.

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If my shaman takes the fire spirit, he gains access to fire spirit magic which has fireball. Is it on his shaman spell list? No, it's spirit magic which like domains is a separate set of spell slots. But I would think that I could craft a wand of fireballs, or is that impossible as well. Could he use it if he can make it?

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Pathfinder has plenty of options for classes to be healers of some sort. Life Oracle, Shaman, Witch, Bard, Paladin, Druid and Cleric. Heck with the Phoenix and Unicorn bloodlines sorcerers can play that role too. If no one wants to play any of them or would rather not have to play that particular role, then the game offers the option to use other resources to augment/supplement natural healing. I'm GM for a party that is playing Shattered Star, and they have no healer. Resting to recover is a painful and long process.

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A Horse With No Name wrote:

I'm building a Dinosaur Druid, Level 10. So, via Wild Shape, I can turn into a Huge dinosaur. With that, I get hit points. I assume I get the HP of the dinosaur, but I'm not certain of that. I myself have 110.

Either way, let's say I battle and get hit and drop to -4 HP.

Do I revert to my Druid form with 110-4hp = 106? Or am I unconscious at -4hp in my Druid normal form?

Or something else?

It seems that if I can go Wild Shape, fight, revert, go Wild Shape again, fight, revert, etc. that I can end up taking hundreds of HP worth of damage, which seems kinda' OP.

Not to mention my dinosaur Animal Companion, and, Summon Nature's Ally spells.

Any help clearing this up would be appreciated!

What you described is the 5th edition DnD Druid wild shape. In 5e, you take on the HD *and* Hitpoints of the creature you wild shape into, and when you drop to 0 hp, you revert to your original form and take any excess damage to your true form. And as people have mentioned you only get what the text says you get for the wild shape nothing more.

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I vaguely remember that the reason was that the ghoul/ghast touch is a reminder of death and something reaching out from the grave and since elves are "immortal", they have no fear of the grave.

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RJ Dalton 89 wrote:

So, the sorcerer in the party just leveled up to 15 and gains this ability: s-from-paizo/undead-bloodline/

The page indicates that in the incorporeal form, he takes only half damage from physical sources if they're magical, including spells, but it says that non-damaging spells function normally. However, it says that they gain the incorporeal subtype and the subtype says that spells and effects that do not do damage have only a 50% chance of working.
So, how would you rule? Should I go with the 50% rule of the subtype, or the specific wording of the ability?

That's not what it says, or at least that is not how I parse this. It states: s-from-paizo/undead-bloodline/ wrote:
Incorporeal Form (Sp): At 15th level, you can become incorporeal for 1 round per sorcerer level. While in this form, you gain the incorporeal subtype. You only take half damage from corporeal sources as long as they are magic (you take no damage from non-magic weapons and objects). Likewise, your spells deal only half damage to corporeal creatures. Spells and other effects that do not deal damage function normally. You can use this ability once per day.

In this form:

1. you gain the incorporeal subtype
2. half damage from corporeal sources if they are magic
3. no damage from non-magic weapons and objects
4. spells that you cast deal half damage to corporeal creatures
5. spells that you cast that don't deal damage function normally

To me the last 2 sentences should be read together. This part of the ability is referring to spells that you are casting, not ones being cast on you. For that you have the subtype text which states:

Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature.

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The party is 1st level, so no immunity for the paladin much to his annoyance. I see that free spell casting seems like a bridge too far. Providing service in exchange or payment at a reduced fee seems reasonable to me. The fact that there is a miss chance, as it is a DC check of 15, means that the 5th level cleric has a 50-50 shot of curing him, and so likely will need 2 castings to remove the diseases.

As it turned out the cleric needed 3 casting to free the paladin of both diseases. 450 gp at standard rates, which for a 1st level party is a lot.

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I'm running an AP, and one of the party members contracted a pair of diseases: leprosy and red ache. He's a paladin of Sarenrae and is looking for a cure but the only easily accessible temples are Iomedae and Abadar. Abadar is going to charge for any services rendered, because well Abadar. But since Sarenrae and Iomedae are allies, the player is arguing that they would provide free services to rid him of these diseases. I contend that if he were a paladin of Iomedae, they would help for free but curing diseases is a risky business, and is by no means a certain thing. Would churches really offer free services to outsiders of the faith? I'm not so sure.

Any thoughts? Would they extract services for the cure in lieu of money?

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You also lose the claws attacks as those limbs are busy. So bite and wing attack at -5, and attacks with the great sword.

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I'm not convinced that they are different sources. The crossblooded archetype isn't two separate bloodlines but a synthesis of the two. You are gaining the power from your bloodline, so whether you take the power from black blood or aberrant, the source is your bloodline.

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Well in my case, my GM used the alternate table in the pfsrd in the reincarnation spell and as such in principle, as was suggested, as an outsider (native), my aasimar should be using a table of like type races.

According to archive of nethys, the list of outsider (native) races is:

Aasimar, Aphorite, Duskwalker, Fetchling, Ganzi, Ifrit, Oread, Shabti, Suli, Sylph, Tiefling, Undine

Could just use a d12 or maybe bias some races over others. Doubt he'll change it but need to discuss feat/trait changes, so I'll see if he wants to change his race.

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The feat in question was celestial servant for my Shaman's spirit animal. Should my hawk loose the celestial template? Should it only loose it if it dies? As far as the trait is concerned it was Bralani's step which lets you 1/day increase your movement by 5' as part of your move action.

With regards to the type, there is the text which states that

For a humanoid creature, the new incarnation is determined using the table below. For non-humanoid creatures, a similar table of creatures of the same type should be created.

As an aasamar is a humanoid creature, you should be using the table listed in the spell. The entry here from pfsrd lists an alternate table that my GM used. Archives of Nethys lists only a core races table, and the table in the Inner Sea Races, basically has you roll on a smaller core race table and only if you roll high enough do you use a more complete table.

In any case, I need to go back and chat with my GM about the corner cases that don't seem to be addressed in by RAW with regards to race traits, and racial feats. I am pretty sure he's going to rule that the SLA is out. ;( I liked have a 1/day glitterdust.

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During our last session, my aasimar got reincarnated into a wyvaran. And I'm trying to understand how the rules apply.

It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged.

Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer necessarily of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.

Does this mean that you eliminate any racial adjustments to just the 3 physical stats, leaving your mental stats adjusted by your previous race or does it strip all racial adjustments completely. So for example, I was an azata blooded aasimar which gave me +2 Dex, +2 Cha. Do I strip both the charisma and dexterity or just the dexterity, and gain only what is listed in the table for the new race. The way I read it, it is that indeed you lose only physical racial adjustment, and apply only those listed in the table. The only other way I could see doing this would be to strip all previous racial adjustment, and apply the racial adjustments of the new race.

Do I lose the spell like abilities? As an aasimar, I had gitterdust 1/day. I suppose that is gone. I also took 1 race traits from aasimar, as well as 1 aasimar feat. Do I lose both of these as well? Clearly it says that I keep the feats but there is no mention of race traits.

Finally, the wyvaran is considered type dragon. Does that mean that you gain the base type abilities, i.e. immunity to sleep and paralysis for a dragon? Or is that not for player characters? The example on the pfsrd has a inquisitor wyvaran listed with immunity to both. But it isn't listed on the character race page.

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One hell of a way for a dragon to restart. The Ancient dragon becomes a young adult with spell casting, bab, saves, and hit points for an ancient dragon but in a young adult's body. I wonder would the dragon see improvements at it's new body actually aged? Picking up all of the improvements granted by age to dragons.

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It was a general discussion not about but specifics ones. But say Healing Hex

This acts as a cure light wounds spell, using the witch’s caster level. Once a creature has benefited from the healing hex, it cannot benefit from it again for 24 hours. At 5th level, this hex acts like cure moderate wounds.

or Flight Hex (although this one is much more ambiguous due to wording)

At 1st level, the witch can use feather fall at will and gains a +4 racial bonus on Swim checks. At 3rd level, she can cast levitate once per day. At 5th level, she can fly, as per the spell, for a number of minutes per day equal to her level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments. This hex only affects the witch.

Does the SU ability have spell manifestations? AoO? SR? SU says no, GM says yes because it "act like" and in the case of Flight it says cast levitate.

I agree that it's just a space saving device but not how it is being view by GM.

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I was discussing with my GM about this and was wondering how others interpret it.

I'm playing a shaman and his hexes pretty clearly state: Using a hex is a standard action that doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity unless otherwise noted.

His contention is that if an SU ability states in it's description that it "acts like <spell>" then it picks up all the trappings of being a spell, AoO, spell resistance, components (V,S and/or M), etc. That the phrase "acts like <spell>" is the "unless otherwise noted" exception.

I can see how you could make that leap, but why call it a SU ability then and not a spell-like ability which is what you've accomplished by doing that.

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Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.

In this case, all from different sources, all untyped.

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I agree. It is clear that it just requires line of sight to identify the spell. This is why Conceal spell, and Greater Conceal spell are required to get a spell off undetected. Not just the use of Still/Silent/Eschew Materials. Nor Logical/Intuitive for psychic magic either. So clearly the detection/identification of the spell being cast must by observing something else. The FAQ calls them manifestations. This begs the question is it LOS to the caster or to the manifestations themselves. I only ask because what if I am invisible and I cast a spell which doesn't break invisibility. Are the manifestations visible or not. And can someone notice as spell was cast.

But is a SU ability detectable via spellcraft or a knowledge check and if so what are the prerequisites for that check to be allowed. Is the answer different if the SU ability duplicates a spell?

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Seems that given the knowledge skill check is predicated on a visible effect and neither the charm or evil eye, for example, is a visible effect not sure how someone would make the check. Is making the saving throw which gives you a feeling of hostile intent or a tingle sufficient to allow the knowledge check?

It just seems that the objective of the rules was to prevent unfettered casting in social context that could go undetected making the hex much more powerful in these circumstances.

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I've been wondering this as well. Do hexes, most of which are SU abilities, have spell manifestations and as such are identifiable via spellcraft? I've been playing a Shaman and have been wonder if in social situations whether Charm or Evil Eye can be used undetected.

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I think this FAQ is directly applicable. and makes the case for it only taking effect once.

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VoodistMonk wrote:
The only bloodline that the Dragon Disciple will advance is draconic... you would need the heritage feats to gain access to the fun orc bloodline stuff.

It simply rests on two questions:

1) Can you be a DD as a crossblooded sorcerer?
There are several posts on this forum on this topic, and the general consensus is that you do qualify.

2) How does the Blood of the dragon effect a crossblooded sorcerer?
Crossblooded isn't 2 bloodlines, it is a class archetype that blends two bloodlines. Since Blood of the Dragon advances your bloodline and you have a single bloodline, it advances that bloodline and allows you to chose powers and spells based on being crossblooded. To me this is similar to the robes of arcane heritage. It grants you access to bloodline powers at CL+4. Not just one of your bloodlines but the only bloodline that you have. You do have to pick which powers you are taking as normal but it isn't increasing one or the other bloodline.

Crossblooded already pays a high penalty. One less spell known at every level, and penalty to your will saves make it a pretty costly choice.

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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Dave Justus wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
It was a 20' Radius Sphere that would conform to the space it was in: 34,000 cubic feet, so that would be a stretch of 10' hallway the better part of a mile long!
I think your math is a bit wrong. First, although I am not 100% sure I think the 1st edition burst was a hemisphere, not a sphere. Even if that isn't the case, a 10x10x10 section of hall is 1000 cubic feet, so it would be 34 such squares, or 340 feet long. Quite a ways, but nowhere near a mile.

Just looked it up: 20' Radius Sphere from the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook.

My math? maybe: Volume of a Sphere:

4(3X20X20X20)/3 = 4 X 8000 = 32000 cubic feet.

Oh, you are right: I needed to divide by 10 again. 32-34 squares, depending on what you used for pi.

My wizards always used the volume numbers and just figured out how many squares were needed whenever you didn't have the space for the sphere. And you almost never had space for the sphere. Bouncing lightning bolts were also a great tool. Ah the good old days :)

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You could use an amulet of mighty fists to get your claws to bypass other DRs. I was thinking arcane strike might help but it doesn't still just gets you to bypass DR/magic.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

To the OP, I think the answer to your question is that no official ruling exist, and as such no link can be provided. Nor is it likely to get one.

With that out of the way, as a rules discussion, there is some ambiguity with regards to DR, and I can see it from both perspective. If you see DR as the physical equivalent to energy resistances then one could argue that it shouldn't require an attack. If I have fire/10 and I put my hand in a fire would it protect me, sure. So if I have DR and put my hand in a box with knives ... it doesn't because no attack was involved??? Does DR apply when you're damaged by a swarm?

Or you read the words in DR and that says attack, and you say it only works if your hit with a physical damage attack.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

I don't think it was every settled. To me the FAQ states that all spells have manifestations, and those manifestations are what is used to facilitate spellcraft checks.

FAQ wrote:
Whatever the case, these manifestations are obviously magic of some kind, even to the uninitiated; this prevents spellcasters that use spell-like abilities, psychic magic, and the like from running completely amok against non-spellcasters in a non-combat situation. Special abilities exist (and more are likely to appear in Ultimate Intrigue) that specifically facilitate a spellcaster using chicanery to misdirect people from those manifestations and allow them to go unnoticed, but they will always provide an onlooker some sort of chance to detect the ruse.

Still, silent, eschew components are not sufficient because they can't hide the manifestations. You need conceal spell and improved conceal spell to hide/misdirect an observer from your spell.

Now the crux of the issue is: are the casting of spell and the creation of said manifestation concealed by invisibility. If I lit a torch while invisible, is it and the light it gives off hidden. To me, the manifestations are a byproduct of magic use, and as such isn't hidden by the invisibility spell.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

I guess I don't see how you could know that someone was casting a silent, still, eschewed materials spell other than the spell effect and then only if there was some visible effect. It seems to me that you need to *add* manifestations to make it possible with such a metamagic'ed spell

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

The feat chain you in order to try and hide a spell from a spellcraft check is deceitful, conceal spell, improved conceal spell plus skill ranks in appropriate skills (bluff, disguise, slight of hand). Making the check harder (15 + relevant skill + relevant stat) and taking away from the opponents their bonus for spell level. Prior to the manifestations FAQ, you could use still, silent, and eschew materials to hide what you were doing. It also made psychic casters have similar issues with manifestations even though their spells are thought and emotion. I get that casual casting of spells in public to do harm needed to be curtailed but to leave it so open ended and nebulous as to what the manifestations are turned it from fluff to rule without mechanics. If they really want to do this, each spell should have a listed manifestation as part of the spell text.

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