What do people think about the Arcanist and Shaman?
What are their key features, and which Archetypes change them most?
Arcanist I don't know, but Shaman I do- the most radical changeup is the Unsworn Shaman. Rather than gaining a single static spirit and a hex every two levels, you cut your number of hexes in half and delay some features by a level... in order to get MORE than one Wandering Hex, and TWO Wandernig Spirits.
My opinions of them? Arcanist is what Wizard should've been, and Shaman works very well as a worshiper of a Pantheon of deities, rather than being devoted to one deity as a Warpriest/Inquisitor/Cleric is.
Every class except for the Medium and Occultist should be okay. The medium has a spirit provided on the spheres of power wiki to make it compatible with Spheres. Occultist is a lot more fiddly and likely wouldn't work with Spheres
I actually considered doing this for a TES RPG. Inspired by Skyrim somewhat. Instead of having a value assigned to each ability, there's three tracks. You have six points to assign to each track. Depending on where you assign them, it alters your BAB, your hitdice, your skill ranks, and other such things. It works better when using a system like Psionics. Here's the basic gist of it;
Points assigned to combat increased BAB, Hitdice, and gave a large bonus to fortitude saves and a small bonus to Will saves.
Points assigned to magic increased psionics, powers known, and gave a large bonus to Will saves and a small bonus to reflex saves.
Points assigned to stealth increased skill ranks, and gave a large bonus to reflex saves and a small bonus to fortitude save es
Anyone have experience in how all three of these DSP systems interact with each other? I'm considering a game wherein the players are restricted to Paizo's 6/9 casters and below, alongside the various classes offered by DSP
1: Make Path of War standard. Let the Full BaB and Rogue take their path of war archetypes without trading anything out.
2: Drop Vancian, use Akashic Mysteries/Psionics (DSP), and Spheres of Power for magic
3: Make Charisma more important: let you get a discount on magical gear for having a high Charisma, or increase Wealth by Level depending on Charisma.
4: incorporate Class Templates from Path of War: Expanded. Make Swashbuckler a template for Rogue, Fighter, and other classes. Make Arcanist a template of Sorcerer/Wizard/others.
If we are honestly talking about fixing Kineticist damage output, you need to up the damage of the base kinetic blasts. If you compare them to a moderately optimized archer (aka, an archer that uses a composite longbow and takes the archery feats), they look quite bad. Heck, compare the kineticist single-target damage to a wizard/sorcerer using evocation spells, and they do worse damage (and that's ignoring that the caster is doing damage in an AoE).
The kineticist should not deal as much damage as an optimized archer. Archers churn out some of the highest damage in the game at the cost of being a one-trick pony due to action economy, feat hunger, and the design of martial classes. Kineticists have much more options, versatility, and ways to bypass defenses all while not requiring any weapons or long feat chains to be effective.
Nor should a class be dealing that much damage if it cannot be disarmed, run out of ammo, or run out of resources allowing that amount of damage.
Tels and Cyrad have it right. The only way to prevent a Kineticist from blasting is to either knock him out or bind his hands, both of which can be rather hard- all kineticist elements have some method of transportation other than walking, climbing, or swimming, which can make them very hard to get to, and the number of enemeies who would tend towards binding hands are rather few and far between. Archers almost always win the DPR olympics. That's a given.
Ok, forget the archer comparison, and instead go with the sorcerer comparison. A sorcerer going for evocation (let's say fireball or battering blast as the most common) will always do more damage, assuming it's not a total marathon game (which is pretty rare). And the sorcerer will also being flying/invisible/untouchable and have utility spells, so the utility comparison will be similar. Am I wrong?
One issue with this is that the Kineticist is starved for content. You've got two books, with a number of wild talents spread between them, and a number of talents just tossed all over the place. The Kineticist hasn't existed for nearly as long as the sorcerer, which has been in since the start of Pathfinder. You can't compare a class that has a year and a half of content at most to a class that has had more than a decade to mature from its inception. I dislike comparing them. When more content comes out that increases the amount of damage a kineticist can do, maybe they're comparable, but I dislike making this comparison between classes.
If we are honestly talking about fixing Kineticist damage output, you need to up the damage of the base kinetic blasts. If you compare them to a moderately optimized archer (aka, an archer that uses a composite longbow and takes the archery feats), they look quite bad. Heck, compare the kineticist single-target damage to a wizard/sorcerer using evocation spells, and they do worse damage (and that's ignoring that the caster is doing damage in an AoE).
The kineticist should not deal as much damage as an optimized archer. Archers churn out some of the highest damage in the game at the cost of being a one-trick pony due to action economy, feat hunger, and the design of martial classes. Kineticists have much more options, versatility, and ways to bypass defenses all while not requiring any weapons or long feat chains to be effective.
Nor should a class be dealing that much damage if it cannot be disarmed, run out of ammo, or run out of resources allowing that amount of damage.
Tels and Cyrad have it right. The only way to prevent a Kineticist from blasting is to either knock him out or bind his hands, both of which can be rather hard- all kineticist elements have some method of transportation other than walking, climbing, or swimming, which can make them very hard to get to, and the number of enemeies who would tend towards binding hands are rather few and far between. Archers almost always win the DPR olympics. That's a given.
Kineticists are pretty good, actually. They're strong, interesting, and have great flavor. It's not a bad class, just not very well written.
They most certainly are not pretty good. They struggle with damage outside niche scenarios and struggle with utility outside niche scenarios and don't really offer much else to the group. They can be interesting and do have great flavor, but that doesn't change the fact that they are quite bad.
The primary thing about them that's poorly written after all is how bad various mechanics are.
I will make the argument that a Kineticist with Kinetic Blade does end up being very competitive with damage, compared to a fighter, and has the option to hit either touch AC for less damage or normal AC for lots of damage. Other than that, the Kineticist really needs a lot of help, which is why I'm writing most of this- I've drafted out a number of new utility wild talents and a number of new infusions to expand options, which is roughly 75% of what this homebrew is.
I really think you need to drop the whole nonsense with listing out every bonus from Overflow instead of just going with ability score increases. It doesn't change the amount of math involved at all, and, because of your insistence on labeling bonus types, just makes it... weird in the application.
Whether a bonus to attack rolls, dex skill, reflex saves, initiative AC and CMD is coming from an untyped bonus, or because your dex modifier increased by +1 doesn't change the fact that you have to go back and add in those +1s everywhere. It is 100% the same math, regardless of how you go about achieving it. In fact, there is even more math involved in your Overflow bonuses, because you include natural armor bonuses, which the previous Overflow didn't grant.
The only thing it does, is list out where the bonuses actually end up, except you list "Con based skill checks" of which, there are none, and your forgot to include abilities that use Dex or Con for their DCs, like infusions. It is unnecessary verbiage, and introduces immersion breaking ideas; like suffusing your body with elemental energies from the extra-planar sources, somehow, grants your Kineticist an alchemical bonuses to your saves and initiative.
Also, why doesn't it add to strength anymore? A kineticist can still be weighed down by his gear if he doesn't pay attention to his strength. Sure, he doesn't need to carry weapons, but that doesn't mean he can go weightless either, and not everyone is going to have access to ant haul or muleback cords. I just don't see why you are so insistent on removing the ability score increases, considering you are trying to add in the exact same bonuses. If you absolutely, must list out the bonuses, do it in a side-bar, not the class itself.
Y'know, you're probably right. I'll list the bonuses in a sidebar for quick, easy reference, and just make that an option, but you can peg the typing on the bonuses to my being extremely tired the other night and discussing this with N. Jolly.
Cyrad wrote:
ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark wrote:
Alright
Bonus Feats have been changed into Magus Arcana-like "Kinetic Techniques" that are much more kineticist-focused. I've also got the infusions/wild talents known staggered such that there are no "dead" levels on the table.
Why? The kineticist never had dead levels. And now you're adding yet another talent pool that gives a lot of really powerful abilities? You're just making the class more complicated (opposite of what most would prefer in a kineticist rework) while giving the class a lot of unnecessary buffs.
Then again, the Kineticist doen't have very many actual FEATS that apply to them. Kinetic Techniques are a middle-ground between actual wild talents and bonus feats, and i'm pegging the power level lower than actual wild talents because they're meant as extra customization.
Bonus Feats have been changed into Magus Arcana-like "Kinetic Techniques" that are much more kineticist-focused. I've also got the infusions/wild talents known staggered such that there are no "dead" levels on the table.
Which reminds me, I might redo Elemental Ascetic to let the Kineticist snag style strikes and a Ki power or two
Why? They have powers that are as good, if not better, than spells.
Elemental Ascetic is the Monk/Kineticist archetype. It is disallowed from using any infusion that requires a ranged attack roll. That's a lot of infusions. I figure style strikes and a ki power or two might not be that gamebreaking compared to losing all ranged infusions.
As well, losing your constitution-focus really hurts, because if you still want to take burn, you end up having to focus on Strength, Constitution, AND Wisdom to use your abilities effectively.
Style strikes are pretty flippin' strong and a big perk of the unchained monk. The elemental ascetic essentially turns the character into a full-BAB fist fighter with bonus attacks. The ascetic doesn't take away any utility talents nor does it stop you from using form infusions that create AoE effects, such as fan of flames, or infusions that add bonus effects to your kinetic fist attacks. As a result, they don't really need to be poaching ki powers and style strikes from the monk.
My biggest problem with the elemental ascetic is that I really dislike how kinetic fist and kinetic blade were implemented. Kinetic blade basically lets you melee full-attack with your kinetic blast. Kinetic fist, on the other hand, just adds bonus damage to your unarmed strikes at the cost of making you really MAD. In addition, it's worthless unless you take a feat.
If you want players to have the option of being a monk/kineticist, I think making a monk archetype with kineticist powers would be a better idea than a kineticist with monk powers.
I only had it snagging style strikes, that's it, and boosting the power of kinetic fist. No Ki Powers, because to be frank, I'm of the opinion that utility wild talents blow ki powers out of the water.
EDIT: Additionally, you only ever get a single style strike per elemental flurry, and you don't gain as many as a straight UnMonk. I figure that's a good trade, because you keep utility talents and get boosted damage with Kinetic Fist, which I see as a fair trade.
Alright, I wrote up a quick rewrite of the Elemental Ascetic archetype. It gains style strikes as the Unchained Monk class feature of the same name, which replace the infusions known at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th levels. Additionally, it automatically ups the damage die of your kinetic fist, from d6s to d8s to d10s to d12s. You get the die step-ups two levels later than the Chained Elemental Ascetic, however, because you get them for free, and each die step up is effectively +1 average damage.
Which reminds me, I might redo Elemental Ascetic to let the Kineticist snag style strikes and a Ki power or two
Why? They have powers that are as good, if not better, than spells.
Elemental Ascetic is the Monk/Kineticist archetype. It is disallowed from using any infusion that requires a ranged attack roll. That's a lot of infusions. I figure style strikes and a ki power or two might not be that gamebreaking compared to losing all ranged infusions.
As well, losing your constitution-focus really hurts, because if you still want to take burn, you end up having to focus on Strength, Constitution, AND Wisdom to use your abilities effectively.
Why bonus feats? You're just giving an unneeded powerup..
Only thing Kineticist needs is easier calculated class mechanics and more talents. (that aren't overpriced on burn) I like the way you're putting them in the levelup table. :)
An "unchained" Kineticist should be a side-grade, not an upgrade in power. More diversity with simpler mechanics.
Yeah. I was inspired by Dreamscarred Press and the tables for their Psionic and Initiating classes. Anyways, i limited the bonus feats to just stuff marked as Kineticist feats at the bottom of the page. Most of them are just fun feats, which I would consider a bonus- I.e being able to get two weapon fighting with kinetic blade, Eldritch Heritge but Kineticist focused and dragon based, and a pair of kinetic fist feats that allow you to deal some more damage and end up being able to use a flying kick as an unchained monk
Which reminds me, I might redo Elemental Ascetic to let the Kineticist snag style strikes and a Ki power or two
i don't understand why you gave the kineticist bonus feats. Kineticists are not martials and they're not feat needy at all. Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Spell Penetration are pretty much the only staples, but even those aren't "must haves" since you have options to target touch AC or bypass SR depending on your blast choices.
In fact, for my kitsune kineticist, I planned to just take PBS and Precise Shot, and then spend the rest of my feats on Magical Tail.
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
The unchaining I'd like to see is a kineticist thats easier to understand from level 1. The first time I tried to make one, I gave up. I started another last week and its mostly done, but I've been gaming for a long time I feel like it should't be as difficult as it is. There are a lot of choices at 1st level, and figuring out what you are supposed to choose is a little complex.
It took me 4 hours to stat an NPC as a high level kineticist. Then when my players fought her, the only thing she got to do was use flame jet and run away.
I long desired to rework the kineticist. It's a cool class, but it's so sloppy and has so many needlessly complicated parts. It has a talent pool with powers that work like spells but aren't spells with multiple different types of talents that you have a limited amount of each type. Some of your class features work on some talent types, but not others. Many of the class's features are just different ways of reducing burn costs, and you have to manage them all. Burn causes you to get temporary hit points that break the rules for temporary hit points. Ugh, it's a mess! A shame because the class is really cool.
The bonus feats came from an earlier iteration of the unchained Kineticist. I'm planning on adding in Kineticist-only feats, like those listed near the bottom of the page. Additionally, I am going to look into simplifying and streamlining things. The Kineticist IS one of the coolest classes in the game. Shame it has weak mechanics.
Im also dropping the thread for the unchained Kineticist off right here so that this thread doesn't get off topic. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u0fp?Unchained-Kineticist#1
I can't format anything as I'm on a very weak mobile phone and have very limited access to an actual desktop computer. But the link is still there I guess. Have fun
Hmm. So buffer zone is essentially internal buffer, but it automatically recharges, you can spend multiple points from it on each wild talent, and it still applies for things like elemental overflow? I don't see the auto-recharge being that huge an issue, but I'd say it should work identically to internal buffer otherwise (meaning you'd need to define those rules).
Bonus feats are... eh, I dunno. Kineticists usually don't need that many feats anyway. I'm also unsure of what Rapid Shot or Clustered Shots would do, since you normally can't make a full-attack action with a ranged blast. Shot on the Run might work with them (although I don't know for certain how it interacts with these), but you can't nab that until 10th anyway. Pinpoint Targeting would be bloody frightful though, since a kineticist will be highly likely to be using their move action to gather power anyway. I can see a unique playstyle evolving with these feats if the kineticist gets their hands on a conductive bow, but otherwise several of these feats are just pointless. In addition, Elemental Focus is useless, since it applies to spells, which kinetic blasts are not. You'd need to specify that the feats work differently for them if you truly want to stick to these bonus feats.
I'm not so sure about getting composite specialization at 8th. You basically get a free composite at 11th this way, and can use aetheric/gravitic boosted composites at 16th for free.
Supercharge's change I like. I don't know why they didn't allow a swift-action supercharge, frankly. However, it probably should be specified that you can't use it as a move or full-round in the same round you use it as a swift. I don't know about the double-full-turn gather power though; seems like a far-too-risky move to ever bother with unless you're completely out of a creature's reach or they're already incapacitated.
Better to have an option than not have one. The bonus feats list came from an earlier iteration when kinetic blasts worked identically to mystic bolts (I.e could be affected by ranged weapon perks, benefitted from iterative attacks). I have incredibly little time to work on this homebrew, so changes will be slow to implement, and my access to the PFSRD and Paizo materials is going to be limited. I'm thinking about listing out some unique bonus feats at the bottom of the document and simply allowing kineticists to pick from those, like a fighter has fighter-only bonus feats.
I already posted this in N. Jolly's thread about his Kineticist guide. Unfortunately, I have little time to work on this, because family business is coming up and I'll be away from the internet for a good while, but for now, I present the Unchained Kineticist. 1/2 Kineticist Rework, 1/2 More Kineticist content, it's something I've been throwing around in my head for a long while.
Most things are unchanged from the normal kineticist, but the math has been streamlined somewhat to make it easier to calculate in normal play. Unfortunately, it is incompatible with normal Kineticist archetypes, but I am entirely open to converting an archetype to work with it.
Not exactly a fan of your changes to Burn, Gather Energy and Overflow to be honest. Burn and Gather Energy are both straight power boosts and removes any hint of risk/reward from the class at all. Overflow is just straight up worse than it currently is and adds way too much extra verbiage for, essentially, no reason.
I went through and made Elemental Overflow more similar to the original, but changed the wording on the second part of the ability to be less math-intensive. Instead of having to recalculate your ability scores when you get a constitution or dexterity bonus, you gain a flat bonus to the stuff that those ability scores affected.
I'll take that into account. A lot of the writing for this was done late at night and I probably need to go in and rejig some things. Thanks for the input
The basic mechanics are already fleshed out. I'd be happy to post a link. It's mostly just streamlining the kineticist and making it easier to read.
1) instead of elemental overflow granting bonuses to dexterity and Constitution (who in their right mind would pick Strength?) They grant their bonuses directly to the stuff they alter, like the unchained barbarian does. So instead of +2 Dex and +2 Con, you gain +1 to AC, +1 to Fort and Reflex saving throws, +1 to hit and to damage with kinetic blasts, and +1 temporary HP per hitdie you possess
2) Burn has been somewhat alleviated. Instead of taking nonlethal damage every time, you have a buffer of burn you can safely take before you start to suffer from nonlethal damage, but technically there is no upper limit on how much burn you can take- no hard limit. The soft limit is however much HP you have.
3) Kineticists get a few more wild talents and a few more infusions as they level up, and also gain access to bonus feats at the same rate as a monk. Additionally, they gain a version of mystic bolts and get kinetic blade (to take advantage of bonus feats) for free. I'm thinking of changing it so that you have to pick between one or the other as a "free" form infusion at first level.
Additionally, I'll probably include a few archetypes and a quick guide on converting old ones to it.
Technically, the Kineticist can get to be one of the faster classes
With Air's Reach, Extended, and Extreme Range along with Ride the Blast, you could end up being able to travel up to 960 feet per standard action. You can also take wings of air and use your move action to get an extra 60 feet of movement, up to 1020 feet per round. Each round is six seconds, so the math works out to being able to travel up to 115 miles per hour with zero burn expenditure, which is rather respectable in the world of horses and foot travel.
Don't forget; if you choose quicken for your Metakinetic Master ability, you can use your move action to reduce the quicken to free, and can therefore obtain a speed of 1920 ft per round or ~218.18 miles per hour. :)
That was not something I considered. That's very fast, faster than 99.99% of most cars and about 40mph faster than a Cessna 172.
Technically, the Kineticist can get to be one of the faster classes
With Air's Reach, Extended, and Extreme Range along with Ride the Blast, you could end up being able to travel up to 960 feet per standard action. You can also take wings of air and use your move action to get an extra 60 feet of movement, up to 1020 feet per round. Each round is six seconds, so the math works out to being able to travel up to 115 miles per hour with zero burn expenditure, which is rather respectable in the world of horses and foot travel.
To be fair, this is only in a straight line unless you possess chain infusion and you only intend to change directions near your end-point and have a specific target you could hit with chain. You could take snake to change directions as much as you like, but your total movement is gonna be reduced to 300 ft. total (including the 60 ft. fly speed move).
You're right about that, but still, being able to go at the speed of a leisurely Cessna single-seater is quite an accomplishment for anybody that doesn't have 9 levels of spellcasting.
Technically, the Kineticist can get to be one of the faster classes
With Air's Reach, Extended, and Extreme Range along with Ride the Blast, you could end up being able to travel up to 960 feet per standard action. You can also take wings of air and use your move action to get an extra 60 feet of movement, up to 1020 feet per round. Each round is six seconds, so the math works out to being able to travel up to 115 miles per hour with zero burn expenditure, which is rather respectable in the world of horses and foot travel.
The Magus, Bard, and Kinetics become a single class, with the Kineticist losing almost all spellcasting to gain a super cantrip that scales with level, and the Bard gives up Spell Combat completely to grant bonuses to the team.
I would probably keep Kineticist and just combine magus, bard, and skald. The Kineticist is unique enough that you can't just combine it with another class and be done with it, and I honestly don't like the super cantrip idea. Personally, I'd give the Kineticist a very limited spell list themed around their element that they took, alongside their normal abilities, but let their save DCs get massively boosted- maybe 10+1/2 Kineticist level + Con mod.
Take a dip in Swashbuckler with the Inspired Blade archetype. You get some nice defensive deeds, a decently-sized panache pool, free weapon finesse and weapon focus for rapiers, and you can take fencing grace and get dex to damage on your rapier easy peasy. You only delay your spellcasting by one level that way, and you get an extra point of BAB
Anybody have thoughts on the kineticist? I might build one for this thread- one at level 10, another at 11 (when a kineticist gets supercharge and Infusion Specialization 3).
I believe the highest DPR you can get with a kineticist is going to be from using Kinetic Blade and Blue Flame Blast, which is getting touch attacks while dealing roughly 10d6+1/2 con damage on each attack. With a physical blast however you end up with 10d6+10+con but have to hit against normal AC and DR, which will lower your DPR.
The concept is pretty straightforward: a wereboar-kin Skinwalker with as many natural attacks as possible, gestalted with a Pyrokineticist with Kinetic Fist to really pump up the damage. I'm calling him "Roast Pork" because... Well, why not?
Anyways, the character is level 7
On one side is a mutation warrior fighter, selecting Feral Mutagen at level 7 to get some more natural attacks. I'll also have the extra features fest, so that when I use the feral Mutagen, I'll have a total of six natural attacks. I'll probably take the advanced weapon training feat to get trained Grace, and use weapon finesse with natural attacks.
On the other side, a Pyrokineticist with Kinetic fist. This is pretty simple. I just want to get some extra damage and ranged blasting. I figure the low damage from Kinetic Fist can be offset by the fact I have a ton of natural attacks, and the bonus fighter feats I get will facilitate the Switch Hitter Pork Pyro.
Anyone have any recommendations for this? I'll need to crunch numbers on it when I get home because I'm on mobile, but it's not going to be the MOST optimized build.
5 from Level ups
6 enchantment bonus from a headband
5 inherit bonus from the wishes/tome
+4 sacred for minutes per day if you get the capstone Evangelist power
High charisma is pretty powerful, especially if you combine it with other feats and abilities that. a level dip in oracle of lore can have your knowledge checks based off charisma or charisma to AC instead of dex. Noble Scion Feat if taken at first level, has an option to have your initiative based off AC. Abilities like your smite allow you to use charisma as a deflection bonus against the smited target. Osyluth Guile allows something similar but applies charisma to dodge AC (which stacks with other forms of dodge bonus'). Lastly that im aware of worshipping Arshea grants the ability to add Charisma to your AC as an armor bonus if not wearing any armor. Not to mention you will basically be able to charm or scare off just about anyone with intimidate/diplomacy skills with very little effort. Of course there is also charisma to saves, a paladin speciality.
There are lots of ways to make charisma incredibly powerful, albeit it shouldn't be needed with a 20th level paladin.
...This is brilliant. The Arshea paladin bonus actually plays nicely into what I was going to do with this paladin.
Tiefling (Rakshasha) Paladin. 18 Base Charisma with +2 because Racial. At level 20, without any tricks to get "infinite" Charisma, how high can I boost my Charisma score, and how broken will it be?
The easiest solution I can think of uses generic office supplies;
For the Battlemat, use butcher paper, marking on it squares similar in size to the Chessex mat. You can mark and overlay stuff by putting a plastic sheet over it- you don't need to have an overlay over the ENTIRE board, just the parts you'll be using
For miniatures, take a 2x8 inch strip of paper, fold it in half on the short side, then fold it in half again on the long side. After this, fold the open ends of the paper so that it looks like a T-shape. You might want to take a small coin or something flat and heavy and tape it to the bottom to weigh it down and keep it from blowing away. Then either staple or glue near the bottom, where you folded the legs of it, and you should be good. All you need to do is mark it after that.
Heh. It's less that I'm against powergaming and more that the Mutation Fighter doesn't make sense for the character- farmer girl who took up the sword after. But either way, yeah, straight barbarian it is for me.
That's what passes for heavily powergaming these days???
If you want to be the beat stick, shouldn't your damage output should be all that matters?
I tend to pass on stuff that would turn most encounters into a joke, which is why I'm not playing a caster. I think I'll just stick with pure Barbarian as Imbricatus said, but thanks for the advice.
While a Fighter/Barbarian can be a decent combatant, there really isn't much synergy between the two.
Two-Handed Fighter needs at least 7 levels to get the full benefits of Overhand Chop, and 15 to get improved power attack.
Invulnerable Rager needs barbarian levels to keep DR relevant, and to increase rage rounds, rage bonuses, and get new rage powers.
If you only take a level or two dip of barbarian, it will make your fighter more powerful for most of your leveling career, but you will be hurting yourself at high level.
If you wanted to be mostly barbarian, the fighter dip really isn't adding anything.
What exactly are your trying to get out of the multiclass?
I'm really just trying to be the party's beatstick, and I saw that Overhand chop would provide a nice bonus to damage for one attack. If it's not worth taking then I think I'd be better off going as a straight barbarian, then. Thanks for the advice.
Ravingdork wrote:
Take barbarian first, since you get max hit points at 1st-level. Not only will it help you survive that first level, you will have one or two more hit points then you would have had otherwise.
Also, you may want to consider the Mutation Warrior fighter archetype from the Advanced Class Guide instead of the Two-Handed Fighter. It allows you to brew a drought that gives you a +4 alchemical bonus to a physical ability score.
You don't get the mutagen until level 4 (assuming one level of barbarian), so if you started with a 19 Strength, you make that a 20 with your ability score bonus level 4, then you can drink the drought to get 24 Strength, then you rage for 28 Strength. Get a party-member to cast bull's strength (or get it from a potion perhaps) and you can get to 32 easily. Whatever you hit with that two-handed weapon is going to die awfully quick.
That's a whopping +11 to hit and +16 to damage from Strength alone at level 4. Add in your base attack bonus (+4), weapon focus (+1), and a +1 weapon, and you could have an attack line as follows:
+1 greatsword +17 (2d6+17/19-20)
+1 greatsword +17 (2d6+23/19-20) with Furious Focus and Power Attack
At 5th-level, with haste and Weapon Specialization, you could be looking at the following:
+1 greatsword +18/+18 (2d6+19/19-20)
And hell, why not throw in a cloak of the hedge wizard for a free once per day enlarge person effect for an additional +2 strength, base 2d6 weapon damage, and reach?
That's a whopping 30 Strength for that nasty boss fight at the end of the day! All possibly be level 4.
Sticking with the Two-Handed Fighter archetype is still a strong choice too though (sadly, you can't get both fighter archetypes).
I'm not interested in powergaming that heavily- as I said, I'm interested in knowing if this is viable or not. Now my question is if there are any classes that DO synergize well with Barbarian, or if I'm just better off taking only Invulnerable Rager levels and being invulnerable?
Joining a Pathfinder game just this next Friday. First time playing Pathfinder. I couldn't exactly wrap my head around character creation mechanics so I had to get some help from the GM. Decided to multiclass Fighter/Barbarian after seeing the Invuln. Rager and Two-Handed Fighter archetypes.
The game begins at level 1 and is 25-point buy. I am starting as a True Neutral Human Fighter (2h-fighter) with plans to take levels in Barbarian (Invuln. Rager). The GM is running Shattered Star and our party is fairly non-standard with a Warpriest, Alchemist, and another unorthodox class which I can't remember at the moment.
Questions:
Is Fighter/Barbarian, specifically, Two-Handed Fighter/Invulnerable Rager, viable?
If it is viable, what's the best way to do it?
I've already got my stats decided, is there anything I could tweak here? (19/13/16/10/13/7)
