Your job at Paizo is going well, so well they've given you a third task:


Homebrew and House Rules

Grand Lodge

"We've got too many classes and we know it. However, people love the systems and mechanics we've put in place, so we don't want to lose those. We need you to cut 10 classes out of Pathfinder by absorbing them into other classes. Keep as much of the flavor and mechanics in place as you can, though!"

Well, theorycrafters and aspiring RPG designers? What 10 Pathfinder classes would you squish into others?


Wizard, becomes an archetype of Witch.

Fighter, already piecemealed out to Slayer, Vigilante, Brawler, Barbarian, Ranger, and others.

Rogue, already taken care of by Investigator, Vigilante, Ranger, Slayer, and (somewhat) Bard.

Cleric, becomes a (probably rarely used) Druid archetype. "Wait, I give up Wild Shape, Animal Companion and all other features for a poorly scaling AoE heal and second Domain?" Will allow Warpriest to actually feel needed.

Cavalier, "Wait, we made an entire class to cover 'guy on a horse'?" Turned into a spell-less Paladin Archetype.

Shaman, there are already a tonne of "shaman" archetypes for classes. Just keep some of the features and make it into a Witch archetype.

Hunter, make it into a Summoner archetype.

Combine Gunslinger and Swashbuckler into a single class, and allow the player to select abilities from a list to build as gun, blade, or derring-do focused as they prefer. Saves space and feels less linear.

Having both Monk and Brawler feels really redundant to me, but I honestly can't think of a way to eliminate one without removing some potential concepts.


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Wait, only 10 ? Before giving out my list, I'll say that I don't like the current implementation of archetypes (I'd rather have them baked in the classes, rather that slapped on them), so expect them to be rare in the following alterations.

Sorcerer, Wizard and Shaman are baked into the Witch; At creation, the witch may choose to focus in sorcery (granting a Bloodline), wizardry (granting a School Specialization) or Shamanism (granting a Guardian Spirit); Bloodlines, School Specializations and Guardian Spirits grant alternate Hexes.

Cleric and Druid are baked into the Oracle; The cleric channeling energy ability is already present in a the Bones and Life Mysteries; Wild shape is either added to the Nature Mystery or into a new Mystery; the druid's prohibition with metal armor and shield is added as a curse, grantin increasing proficiency to cast ironwood.

Gunslinger, Swashbuckler and most archetypes of both are merged together, allowing the players to pick deeds in a talent-style fashion; as a result, some deeds will require other deeds.

Hunter, Cavalier and Spiritualist are archetypes of the Summoner. It would be interesting to merge them all in a single class, but probably too complex to correctly balance.

Depending of how you count it, that's 9 or 13 classes. So I'll stop there.


Wizard, druid, Cleric, sorcerer, oracle Fighter, Barbarian Thief Bard, kineticist,

Everything else would be made with archetypes or multi-classing.

paladin- cleric fighter
ranger- rogue fighter

You could do it in 4 if you really tried

As a note I Don't like it at all. I'd rather have more classes then less.


The following classes are all blended into one with options and archetypes and such.

Fighter, Monk, Rogue, Swashbuckler, Gunslinger, Brawler, Slayer, Vigilante, Ninja, Cavalier, Samurai.

Call it Champion or something.


Psychic -> Sorceror
Wizard -> Arcanist (but gets the wizard name)
Paladin -> Prestige class mostly, but some of it's stuff gets transferred to Warpriest
Shaman -> Witch
Ninja -> Slayer
Samurai -> Fighter/Cavalier
Gunslinger -> Fighter
Skald -> Bard

I guess that is about it, but personally I don't have a probably with most of these being distinct classes.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I was working on a class that combined the gunslinger and swashbuckler. However, the more I think about it, I would rather the gunslinger was reworked to be a martial with a highly customizable tech weapon rather than a martial that gets a free touch attack weapon.


Going backwards, I think most character tropes could be made with:
Fighter
Barbarian (with greater focus on rage beyond "add more damage")
Monk (with more focus on ki points & powers)
Ranger (with more focus on support and less on combat)
Rogue
Cleric
Wizard
Sorcerer

and the use of spherecasting's various casting traditions (when anyone can take skilled casting perform(lute), everyone is a bard), and perhaps some expanded feats to fill in the holes.

The Exchange

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Wizard - commoner with books
Rogue - commoner with my things
Cleric - commoner with a crowd
Ranger - fighter with training
Paladin - fighter with delusions
Cavalier - fighter with horse
Monk - poor commoner
Sorcerer - danger commoner
Barbarian - dumb fighter
Witch - commoner with cats


Headfirst wrote:

"We've got too many classes and we know it. However, people love the systems and mechanics we've put in place, so we don't want to lose those. We need you to cut 10 classes out of Pathfinder by absorbing them into other classes. Keep as much of the flavor and mechanics in place as you can, though!"

Well, theorycrafters and aspiring RPG designers? What 10 Pathfinder classes would you squish into others?

Rogue: Folded into Slayer. Becomes an archetype with reduced BAB, HD, and proficiencies. Gains more skill points, access to any Rogue Talent, higher SA progression, and Skill Unlocks. Debilitating Injury is removed and instead you gain double the bonuses from Studied Target whenever your attack qualifies for Sneak Attack damage.

Hunter: Folded into Ranger. Loses BAB, HD, and Favored Enemy. Gains 6-level Druid casting, a Druid Animal Companion, and Animal Focus. Can give up a spell known to teach their companion Skirmisher Tricks.

Cleric: A Warpriest archetype. Loses proficiencies, Fervor, Sacred Armor, and Sacred Weapon. Gains Channel, Domains, and 9-level casting.

Sorcerer and Wizard: Archanist archetypes focusing on either preparation or raw power. The Wizard has less Exploits than the Arcanist but can trade them out during downtime and gains a School. Sorcerer has more spells/day and can use their Reservoir to boost CL and DC higher than the Arcanist, starting at +2 and increasing to +4 by Level 20.

Fighter and Monk: Brawler archetypes. Fighter loses Martial Flexibility, Close Weapon Mastery, Maneuver Training, AC Bonus, and Knockout and instead gains a Bonus Combat Feat every even level which can be used to take Advanced Weapon / Armor Training options. Fighters gain Weapon Training and Mastery as normal. Monks lose Knockout and Bonus Combat Feats and has a limited list of feats for Martial Flexibility, but in exchange has the more accurate Unchained Monk's Flurry and access to Ki as well as a good Will save. Style Strikes become folded into the Brawler class.

Barbarian: Bloodrager archetype, loses spells and their Bloodline and gains access to Rage Powers as well as Rage with a higher Morale bonus to attack/damage and will saves.

Shaman: Druid archetype that trades the animal companion for a familiar, the Domains for Spirits, and gains limited access to the Witch and Oracle spell list (think 1 spell per spell level). Their powers are fueled by spirits rather than nature and as such they have no restriction on using metal.

Medium: Bard archetype (stay with me here) that hands out their limited Seance Bonus rather than their Bardic Performances. Instead, the Medium invokes a spirit and takes on aspects of that spirit, including a boost to the related ability score and the ability to call upon that spirit to grant you a boon such as a high-level spell, a combat feat, or insight into a skill you don't posses. This ability is gained at a reduced rate from Bardic Performance but each round of the ability lasts 1 minute so long as they aren't in combat. The archetype would also use a limited Psychic spell list rather than the Bard or Medium list.

And as an added bonus...

Skald: Alternate Class of the Bard. It gains the ability to sacrifice rounds of performance to invoke the power of Legendary Feats (acts said to have been committed by the heroes, villains, and beasts the Skald sings/orates/plays about) that function like Masterpieces and empower their martial capabilities.

Now somebody get me up-to-speed on the Advanced Class Guide AP's progress - Book 2 hasn't been released yet and since I'm already here I may as well get started.


Sorcerer, Wizard, Witch, Arcanist all become one.
Druid, Oracle, Cleric all become one.
Warpriest and Inquisitor become one.
Barbarian and Bloodrager become one. (if we can have spell less ranger archetypes we can have barbarian archetypes that add casting).

That's 9 out of 10 with narry a thought. The discussion of how it would be mechanically I wont elaborate on, save to say I would work to make one umbrella class with archetypes to represent the ones I'm removing.


Witch and Wizard fall under the Arcanist banner, with the Wizard losing a few Exploits to gain Discoveries. The Witch may choose Hexes instead of Exploits. The Witch also gains a few spells chosen from the Cleric list.

The Sorcerer, Oracle, and Psychic all become a single class with a choice of Arcane, Divine, or Psychic spellcasting.

The Ranger, Paladin, and Bloodrager fold into a unified class with archetypes to separate them. The Ranger gets an animal companion, the Paladin gets Smite Evil and a magic weapon, and the Bloodrager gets Rage and can cast Arcane spells while enraged.

The Druid and Hunter becomes a single class. The Hunter becomes an archetype that grants always on bonuses in exchange for spellcasting ability.

The Cleric snags the Warpriest and the Inquisitor, with the latter two getting altered spell lists and more combat bonuses.

The Rogue, Ninja, and Monk get rolled into a single class.

The Barbarian absorbs the Brawler and the Fighter. The Fighter trades out Rage Powers for combat feats. The Brawler trades out Rage Powers for two-weapon fighting.

The Magus, Bard, and Kineticist become a single class, with the Kineticist losing almost all spellcasting to gain a super cantrip that scales with level, and the Bard gives up Spell Combat completely to grant bonuses to the team.


CalethosVB wrote:


The Magus, Bard, and Kinetics become a single class, with the Kineticist losing almost all spellcasting to gain a super cantrip that scales with level, and the Bard gives up Spell Combat completely to grant bonuses to the team.

I would probably keep Kineticist and just combine magus, bard, and skald. The Kineticist is unique enough that you can't just combine it with another class and be done with it, and I honestly don't like the super cantrip idea. Personally, I'd give the Kineticist a very limited spell list themed around their element that they took, alongside their normal abilities, but let their save DCs get massively boosted- maybe 10+1/2 Kineticist level + Con mod.

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