Mastering the Elements: N. Jolly's guide to the Pathfinder Kineticist


Advice

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I agree with Luthorne's proposed idea to give the creatures from Elemental Whispers some way to get your defense. Maybe even have their own Burn pool so they can power it up too.


I guess with Greater Elemental Whispers, since you have no use for share spells or deliver touch spells, you could apply the Emissary archetype (it doesn't trade out "speak with other" so it's compatible with improved familiars) to your wysp/elemental buddy and gain near-constant Guidance, a daily reroll of a will save, and a level 1 cleric domain power. I'll have to read all the Cleric domains again, but that seems fairly decent.


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Repose domain all the way.


If Aether is my second element and want to take Many Throw with the Extra Talent feat, what 's the minimum level I'd have to be? Or is it too high level?

Silver Crusade

Limas Venomscale wrote:
If Aether is my second element and want to take Many Throw with the Extra Talent feat, what 's the minimum level I'd have to be? Or is it too high level?

I think you could at 20th level (half level -4 would be 8th), although some GMs might consider you to be topping off at 9th level wild talents. Me personally, I'd say at 20th you could take it, although hey, you're end game, why not be generous here?


Is there any way for the Kineticist to actually get the equivalent of high level area spells like Horrid Wilting?

Kineticist by comparison gets weaker as it levels as it still has only a single attack while others are getting full attacks and spellcasters are getting group and army killer spells.

Its says alot when one of the most powerful Kineticist abilities gives the equivalent of Fireball.

Also how do you get the equivalent of a weapon's attack bonus?


When using a telekinetic or many throw blast with pushing infusion, what direction would targets be moved? Would it be away from the telekinetic or potentially based off the direction the thrown object came from?

If I throw a large object that takes multiple squares at a target behind two others that are not in a direct line blocking the primary target but would be potentially hit due to size of the thrown object how should this be resolved?


ChaosTicket wrote:

Is there any way for the Kineticist to actually get the equivalent of high level area spells like Horrid Wilting?

Kineticist by comparison gets weaker as it levels as it still has only a single attack while others are getting full attacks and spellcasters are getting group and army killer spells.

Its says alot when one of the most powerful Kineticist abilities gives the equivalent of Fireball.

Also how do you get the equivalent of a weapon's attack bonus?

2 ways to do this.

1) you have one attack at highest bab that has all the damage. highest bab makes it likely to hit, elemental overflow and the associated stat increases help you hit. This is your hit booster. Then your damage scales growing d6, and a full round attack at lv5 is move action gather power standard action empowered blast. so you have 1 hit for like 100 damage while your party needs to get 3 attacks to hit and have less likely chance to hit with some of their attacks since they use reduced bab.

2) use kinetic blade/whip to make extra attacks of a high damaging weapon, requires burn and thus can't be maintained all day as easily.


I forgot to show the math. Ok say 16 starting Constitution gets +4 from leveling, and +6 from belt so you have 26 constitution with a +8 con bonus. Elemental attacks add half con bonus to damage so thats d6+4 every every level for up to 10 times at level 19. Thats a 75 damage per round average. Empower Spell adds 50% to damage so thats now 112.25 DPR with no burn. Elemental overflow 6 adds +12 damage and +3 consitution bonus(+1 damage per die) so nows its about 145.5 DPR with Empower.

Starting with 18 constitution improves that to 160.5 DPR with 21 attack at touch AC.

What was my Point again? Oh yeah the missing weapon effects. Kineticist cant use any effects like Keen or Vorpal on the Kinetic blast or Kinetic Blade/Whip, so how to improve basic attacks with special passives or are those just completely lost?

That and all area abiltities limited to 20feet area and 120foot range.


They get free infusions to add to their blasts. They can add an entangle chance on every attack, or have a chance to set them on fire. Those are your "special passives"

But as far as weapon enhancements go, yes, you can't get any of those.

Most attacker are limited to 5ft range an no area. Some have 110ft range with now penalties. bust still no area on those attacks.

The class has what it offers, if you don't like it then it's not for you. It's a martial character with some small tricks. Yes it wont win DPR or compete against spells. But it does respectable DPR and has some utility.


You'll also get an additional +2-6 to Con from your elemental overflow size bonus, don't forget about that.

The Kineticist doesn't really have much in the way of magic items (except stat boosters) or feats that do much for it. That's one of the charms of the class from where I sit. You're free to take feat chains that nobody else would bother with (or VMC at very low opportunity cost) and you don't need to spend money on anything other than stat boosters and defense.

But when you're comparing the Kineticist to other classes, consider that the class can be significantly tougher than a lot of other classes it seems natural to compare it to. I recently played a Kineticist all the way to level 18 and at the end of the campaign I had 426 HP (72 in the kinetic buffer, sitting on 126 nonlethal damage at the start of the day), 10 points of damage reduction, and an AC of 48. That character was nearly as hard to drop as a great wyrm red dragon, and you don't have to be a straight martial to be that tough. The nice thing is you also don't care about buffing yourself, you can just jump right in with your super-tough blaster combo.


I like the class despite what you might think. I remember a thread about someone talking about making an "lightning element caster Kineticist" and going through a detailed comparison of both.

Air has several great abiltities like permanent flight and Haste. Fire has area effects. Water and earth has useful utility and defensive abiltities. Too bad you cant pick more than 3 total.

Still cant find any big area abilities. I compare the Kineticist more to physical classes like the Gunslinger than mages but its still a spell-ish class with lots of spell copies.


I compare the Kineticist more to something like, say, a Blood Rager or a hybrid of Inquisitor/Magus. Self-sufficient class that has AoE, though it's not a primary component. You can play a blaster Magus, and you can blast with a Blood Rager but you are most efficient when you mix them. Blast when it's the right time, buff and bash when it's the right time, control when it's the right time.

The best kineticists aren't going to focus on a single type of thing to the exclusion of all else. You need to mix a few things together so you always have an option. Take a little AoE on your Telekinetic Tank, take a little melee on your Aerokinetic Lightning Lord, use what control you have when possible.

A Kineticist can blast, but she's not king, and doesn't run out of them as easily as others do. She can melee pretty well, but she's not king, and she's got some cool tricks, but others are better. However, very few classes can go from melee, to AoE, to nifty tricks in the span of a single battle, while also do king solid AC and HP, and do it in every following battle without running out. That's why I compare the Kineticist more to a Magus, or Inquisitor or Blood Rager, they can do all of those things, being better in some areas than others, but usually not all at once, and usually only a few times before they're spent.


It could be better. Its quite a rigid class. Each element has a few useful abilities which are absolutely locked out unless you have said element.

If its going to be a specialist, have more potential at that specialty.

1 Let people use Extreme range with area attacks
2 have Explosion increase the existing radius of attacks.
3 Have some buffing abilities for yourself not locked to specific elements.
4 Attacks weapon special effects(especially attack bonuses) to your attacks
5 Kineticist specific feats

The class just feels unfinished with alot of non-compatibility between itself and existing game system. You cant Rapid Shot or use Dazing Spell. So much potential wasted.


ChaosTicket wrote:
You cant Rapid Shot or use Dazing Spell

Thank goodness. Dazing Spell is the top of my ban list, and the best thing about Kineticist is "decent ranged combat without Pathfinder's ranged combat mess".

ChaosTicket wrote:

1 Let people use Extreme range with area attacks

2 have Explosion increase the existing radius of attacks.
3 Have some buffing abilities for yourself not locked to specific elements.
4 Attacks weapon special effects(especially attack bonuses) to your attacks
5 Kineticist specific feats

1. Elemental Purist (air) lets you combine Air's Reach with all those fire AoEs you've been missing. It's not quite Extreme Range, but it's halfway there. In general, Elemental Purist seems like a good fit for you, allowing you to combine the utility of one element with a few select infusions taken from other elements. Capstone (which admittedly folks are unlikely to reach) is a massive AoE.

2. I'm not sure how that would work given the mechanics… a utility talent to increase radius in exchange for burn, or maybe a widen metakinesis?
3. It's not really a buff-focused class, but more universal utility talents are always good.
4. … what? Hey, I'm happy not needing equipment. The less money I can spend on boring +X equipment, the better.
5. We do have a few. Kinetic Leap, Expanded Metakinesis, and Delay Blast are probably the good ones. That's more class-specific feats than, say, Oracle or Sorcerer gets.


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The class is only "rigid" because it hasn't gotten much in the way of new options. It really needs a lot more love in the wild talent department.


QuidEst wrote:


1. Elemental Purist (air) lets you combine Air's Reach with all those fire AoEs you've been missing. It's not quite Extreme Range, but it's halfway there. In general, Elemental Purist seems like a good fit for you, allowing you to combine the utility of one element with a few select infusions taken from other elements. Capstone (which admittedly folks are unlikely to reach) is a massive AoE.
2. I'm not sure how that would work given the mechanics… a utility talent to increase radius in exchange for burn, or maybe a widen metakinesis?
3. It's not really a buff-focused class, but more universal utility talents are always good.
4. … what? Hey, I'm happy not needing equipment. The less money I can spend on boring +X equipment, the better.
5. We do have a few. Kinetic Leap, Expanded Metakinesis, and Delay Blast are probably the good ones. That's more class-specific feats than, say, Oracle or Sorcerer gets.

1 I dont know that archetype so its probably new.

2 and 3 are just to make those infusions as compatible with others. Explosion is a fire infusion that adds a radius. Somewhat redundant as Eruption is earlier level and has a 10foot radius by itself. Its high level which means you get it WAY after Fireball is in use.

3 Elemental Overflow is a double-edged self-buff but the defense talents are also ones. the water defense is basically Shield of Faith for free.

4 Its not so much about equipment but the benefits. Even raw increased hit chance and damage without trying to get burn would be useful but come on Vorpal.

5 I didnt know about expanded metakinesis. too bad its the more questionable ones. If you could stack up Empower and Intensify then that would even more damage. Dazing Spell is still major for crowd control.


Basic telekinesis allows the handling of magical objects, is there anything in the rules that cover using it to control a Decanter of Endless Water in geyser mode as a sort of drone attacking around corners or hard to reach areas?

Main thing to consider is the DC 12 strength check.


Haldelar Baxter wrote:

Basic telekinesis allows the handling of magical objects, is there anything in the rules that cover using it to control a Decanter of Endless Water in geyser mode as a sort of drone attacking around corners or hard to reach areas?

Main thing to consider is the DC 12 strength check.

No. The best way to adjudicate that would be to compare the weight limit of your basic telekinesis to the strength chart and use it as a relative strength with telekinetic haul boosting this further, or to sub your Con bonus in for strength.


Can Supercharge and Infusion Specialization be used to eliminate burn from using the any-blast option from Omnikinesis?


Limas Venomscale wrote:
Can Supercharge and Infusion Specialization be used to eliminate burn from using the any-blast option from Omnikinesis?

Supercharge- yes; gather power can reduce the final cost of any blast and supercharge makes it twice as effective.

Infusion specialization- no; infusion specialization can only reduce the cost added to kinetic blasts via infusions. It does not reduce the cost of metakinesis, composite blasts, or omnikinesis. For those things, you must pay their costs with gather power, your internal buffer, or actually taking burn.

If you were to use a supercharged gather power move action, then take the omnikinesis any-blast option, and apply the empower metakinesis your infusion specialization would allow you to apply up to 6 burn worth of infusion on to that blast, however. If you wanted to choose a composite blast you would need to take one burn, or eschew empowering.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Limas Venomscale wrote:
Can Supercharge and Infusion Specialization be used to eliminate burn from using the any-blast option from Omnikinesis?

Supercharge- yes; gather power can reduce the final cost of any blast and supercharge makes it twice as effective.

If you were to use a supercharged gather power move action, then take the omnikinesis any-blast option, and apply the empower metakinesis your infusion specialization would allow you to apply up to 6 burn worth of infusion on to that blast, however. If you wanted to choose a composite blast you would need to take one burn, or eschew empowering.

So would this include the one point of burn from Omnikinesis itself ?


Here's how to tally the burn cost of a blast.

1) First total the burn cost of any form or substance infusions on a blast.
2) From this number deduct the credit given to you by your infusion specialization. If [infusion cost] - [infusion specialization credit] < 0 then treat it as zero.
3) Now total the burn cost of everything else that applies to the blast, composite blasts, metakinesis, omnikinesis.
4) From the number in 3) deduct deduct your gather power modifier (1 or 2 with supercharge) and composite specialization (if applicable).
5) Total the numbers from 2) and 4) and if it's not zero, then pay for the balance by either taking burn or using your internal buffer.

For example a level 20 kineticist gathers power and uses omnikinesis to use an empowered composite blast with the entangling (2) and wall (3) infusions.

The total cost of the blast is
Infusions: You have 5 burn worth of infusions, and your infusion specialization pays for 6 burn worth, so this is zero.
Blast: Omnikinesis (1) + Empower Metakinesis (1) + Composite Blast (2) - Composite Specialization (1) - Supercharge (2) = 1

So the kineticist would need to pay 1 burn for this blast, using their internal buffer or taking the burn onto themselves. If they used a basic blast the burn cost would be 0, if they used a non-empowered entangling wall the burn would be 0.

In effect, you get 2 free points for "other modifiers" for using supercharge, and omnikinesis will occupy one of them.

Dark Archive

I always live hearing that kineticists are bad then wathing a guy at my table nuke something from orbit. A massive range and their blasts can get insane. THEN you have some utility stuff, having Con as your main stat, plus inherent bonuses to your stats. Kineticists are very very strong, but easy to build yourself into a corner.


I think a lot of people read the class, got to the burn section, did a little napkin math on how this scales, and figured "this is terrible." In practice, when you actually play one, you find that you don't really have to take burn on yourself much at all (except the amount you fund your elemental defense at the start of the day in order to get your overflow bonuses topped off).

It's neither a particularly weak class, nor a particularly strong class. The biggest appeal is probably the biggest difference, that it doesn't interact with very many pre-existing game mechanics. So you have very few feats and very few magic items that actually apply to you. It's a hard class to understand from the top down, but pretty simple from the ground up.


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
...it doesn't interact with very many pre-existing game mechanics. So you have very few feats and very few magic items that actually apply to you. It's a hard class to understand from the top down, but pretty simple from the ground up.

The trick is to add an extra feature or two that does use feats and other pre-existing game mechanics. This can be easily done with options like Eldritch Heritage, Racial Heritage, Variant Multiclassing, etc.

Take my geokineticist, Bad Bella, for example. She is only one level behind normal kineticists, but has a powerful animal companion in which to invest in as a result.


The people sayings it's bad run at 80+% optimization levels.
The kineticist ranges between 55-70% optimization.
The people that say it's op run at like 40% optimization.

So it's a solid class at exactly what it does. Just that parts of it can be done better by other classes often. Like doing the most elemental damage in 1 round goes to sorcerers.


Should Greater Toxic Infusion work if the damage is turned to nonlethal due to Merciful Foliage or Expanded Metakinesis (Merciful Spell) ?


Jonas Seaborn wrote:
Should Greater Toxic Infusion work if the damage is turned to nonlethal due to Merciful Foliage or Expanded Metakinesis (Merciful Spell) ?

As I'm seeing it, it doesn't specify whether the damage needs to be lethal or nonlethal, so it shoud work perfectly fine.

That said, keep in mind that if you're going by the PFSRD, it doesn't list the correct level and burn: it's actually a 7th level infusion and costs 4 burn. I fact there's a lot in the Kineticist entry on the PFSRD that needs work *glares at the misplaced utility wild talents and the lack of an entry for basic phytokinesis*


Archives of Nethys is much better in that regard.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Just that parts of it can be done better by other classes often.

Where the class really shines are those "marathon adventuring days". It's not going to shine in contexts where parties rest after every 4 fights, but I've had sessions where we went at least a dozen without being able to rest and the Kineticist really shines on that 11th fight of the day, particularly if you've shrugged off a lot of damage through your force ward.


Onyx Tanuki wrote:
Jonas Seaborn wrote:
Should Greater Toxic Infusion work if the damage is turned to nonlethal due to Merciful Foliage or Expanded Metakinesis (Merciful Spell) ?

As I'm seeing it, it doesn't specify whether the damage needs to be lethal or nonlethal, so it shoud work perfectly fine.

That said, keep in mind that if you're going by the PFSRD, it doesn't list the correct level and burn: it's actually a 7th level infusion and costs 4 burn. I fact there's a lot in the Kineticist entry on the PFSRD that needs work *glares at the misplaced utility wild talents and the lack of an entry for basic phytokinesis*

Uh, I'm not sure what is misplaced, but, basic phytokinesis was never published, which is why it's not on the SRD.


I be.ieve it at least got an FAQ(it was a huge error). Most people use the version Mark posted.


Tels wrote:
Onyx Tanuki wrote:
Jonas Seaborn wrote:
Should Greater Toxic Infusion work if the damage is turned to nonlethal due to Merciful Foliage or Expanded Metakinesis (Merciful Spell) ?

As I'm seeing it, it doesn't specify whether the damage needs to be lethal or nonlethal, so it shoud work perfectly fine.

That said, keep in mind that if you're going by the PFSRD, it doesn't list the correct level and burn: it's actually a 7th level infusion and costs 4 burn. I fact there's a lot in the Kineticist entry on the PFSRD that needs work *glares at the misplaced utility wild talents and the lack of an entry for basic phytokinesis*

Uh, I'm not sure what is misplaced, but, basic phytokinesis was never published, which is why it's not on the SRD.

Three of the wild talents from Ultimate Intrigue. Touchsight (spying) got dropped in where simple blasts go, while earthmeld and flame trap were placed with infusions.


I think the Kineticist is also appealing for players who want to be a "blaster mage" but don't want to keep up with spells known, spellbooks, spells prepared, spells per day, spell slots, metamagic, etc.

A well-optimized, metamagic-ed Sorcerer is the king of magical blasting damage. But there are a lot of moving parts to get right, and it usually involves using the same spell (Fireball) over and over, which can seem kind of boring (though probably equally as boring as the same kinetic blast over and over).

Kineticist appears complicated at first glance (or at least I thought it did), but when you dig down into it, your options become very narrowed very quickly. There's a huge list of infusions and wild talents, but your options drop significantly once you factor in your element choice and what level you are. Infusions can help keep your blast from getting boring and stale, but as I previously pointed out, your options are narrow until higher levels, when you have more elements to choose from and are high enough level for some of the higher level infusions.

Silver Crusade

Onyx Tanuki wrote:
Tels wrote:
Onyx Tanuki wrote:
Jonas Seaborn wrote:
Should Greater Toxic Infusion work if the damage is turned to nonlethal due to Merciful Foliage or Expanded Metakinesis (Merciful Spell) ?

As I'm seeing it, it doesn't specify whether the damage needs to be lethal or nonlethal, so it shoud work perfectly fine.

That said, keep in mind that if you're going by the PFSRD, it doesn't list the correct level and burn: it's actually a 7th level infusion and costs 4 burn. I fact there's a lot in the Kineticist entry on the PFSRD that needs work *glares at the misplaced utility wild talents and the lack of an entry for basic phytokinesis*

Uh, I'm not sure what is misplaced, but, basic phytokinesis was never published, which is why it's not on the SRD.
Three of the wild talents from Ultimate Intrigue. Touchsight (spying) got dropped in where simple blasts go, while earthmeld and flame trap were placed with infusions.

To be fair Onyx, we've published some stuff that has had some similar errors. It's a lot easier to understand this stuff once you're on this side of it.

Me personally? I use the AON for new additions (assuming they're not sent to me for inclusion in the guide) to the guide, while I use the PFSRD while looking for references with writing. Both have their merits, and I really appreciate that both are well maintained.

RaizielDragon wrote:

I think the Kineticist is also appealing for players who want to be a "blaster mage" but don't want to keep up with spells known, spellbooks, spells prepared, spells per day, spell slots, metamagic, etc.

A well-optimized, metamagic-ed Sorcerer is the king of magical blasting damage. But there are a lot of moving parts to get right, and it usually involves using the same spell (Fireball) over and over, which can seem kind of boring (though probably equally as boring as the same kinetic blast over and over).

Kineticist appears complicated at first glance (or at least I thought it did), but when you dig down into it, your options become very narrowed very quickly. There's a huge list of infusions and wild talents, but your options drop significantly once you factor in your element choice and what level you are. Infusions can help keep your blast from getting boring and stale, but as I previously pointed out, your options are narrow until higher levels, when you have more elements to choose from and are high enough level for some of the higher level infusions.

I can agree with this on a personal level; I wanted to like this class far more than I do, but this is a large issue. Really, I think the class is stretched far too thin, elementally speaking. The base class should have been 4 elements with the same page count (preference for aether, earth, air, and water in that order) and Occult Origins should have just been more wild talents for existing elements rather than two new supplementary elements.

Really, I just wish the class was getting more support in supplements. The inclusions in Ultimate Intrigue, Horror Adventures, and softcovers has been pretty tepid, and while I understand the reason for it (including kineticist content is very 'chunky' and single class focused), I'm still not really that happy that we've gotten a lacking presence from the class in content, and really more wild talents are what the class needs more than new archetypes and such.


@ChaosTicket

In regards to "army killers", Kineticists have incredible abilities.

Earth gets Earthquake at will with no burn cost at level 18. Air gets Control Weather at will with no burn cost at level 16. Water gets Tsunami for 1 burn at level 18.

All three of these will knock out an army with no effort at all (albeit more slowly with Air, but at a lower level).

A 16th level Air/Water/Aether Kineticist can be flying, invisible, using extreme range ride the blast to travel at breakneck speed, and every ten minutes lays down a two mile radius (12.5 square miles) hurricane/blizzard/tornado/all of the above. They can literally kill a kingdom in a few hours and practically nothing can stop them. Anyone with the spell slots to counter the magic... has spell slots and will run out in a few hours.


Questions for the wood element.

What are the correct level of these abilities.

Woodland Step 1 or 2?

Wood Soldiers 8 or 9?

Are there any other abilities(from any elements) whose level is different from the book's?

Are there any infusions that left out a blast that works for them?


Technically, the Kineticist can get to be one of the faster classes

With Air's Reach, Extended, and Extreme Range along with Ride the Blast, you could end up being able to travel up to 960 feet per standard action. You can also take wings of air and use your move action to get an extra 60 feet of movement, up to 1020 feet per round. Each round is six seconds, so the math works out to being able to travel up to 115 miles per hour with zero burn expenditure, which is rather respectable in the world of horses and foot travel.


Dragon78 wrote:

Questions for the wood element.

What are the correct level of these abilities.

Woodland Step 1 or 2?

Wood Soldiers 8 or 9?

Are there any other abilities(from any elements) whose level is different from the book's?

Are there any infusions that left out a blast that works for them?

I can only go by what's listed on Nethys, but from what I can tell, Woodland Step is 2nd level and Wood Soldiers is 9th. Also, Greater Toxic Infusion is 7th level and costs 4 burn. I don't believe that any infusions had their associated blasts left out.


ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark wrote:

Technically, the Kineticist can get to be one of the faster classes

With Air's Reach, Extended, and Extreme Range along with Ride the Blast, you could end up being able to travel up to 960 feet per standard action. You can also take wings of air and use your move action to get an extra 60 feet of movement, up to 1020 feet per round. Each round is six seconds, so the math works out to being able to travel up to 115 miles per hour with zero burn expenditure, which is rather respectable in the world of horses and foot travel.

To be fair, this is only in a straight line unless you possess chain infusion and you only intend to change directions near your end-point and have a specific target you could hit with chain. You could take snake to change directions as much as you like, but your total movement is gonna be reduced to 300 ft. total (including the 60 ft. fly speed move).


Onyx Tanuki wrote:
ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark wrote:

Technically, the Kineticist can get to be one of the faster classes

With Air's Reach, Extended, and Extreme Range along with Ride the Blast, you could end up being able to travel up to 960 feet per standard action. You can also take wings of air and use your move action to get an extra 60 feet of movement, up to 1020 feet per round. Each round is six seconds, so the math works out to being able to travel up to 115 miles per hour with zero burn expenditure, which is rather respectable in the world of horses and foot travel.

To be fair, this is only in a straight line unless you possess chain infusion and you only intend to change directions near your end-point and have a specific target you could hit with chain. You could take snake to change directions as much as you like, but your total movement is gonna be reduced to 300 ft. total (including the 60 ft. fly speed move).

You're right about that, but still, being able to go at the speed of a leisurely Cessna single-seater is quite an accomplishment for anybody that doesn't have 9 levels of spellcasting.


ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark wrote:

Technically, the Kineticist can get to be one of the faster classes

With Air's Reach, Extended, and Extreme Range along with Ride the Blast, you could end up being able to travel up to 960 feet per standard action. You can also take wings of air and use your move action to get an extra 60 feet of movement, up to 1020 feet per round. Each round is six seconds, so the math works out to being able to travel up to 115 miles per hour with zero burn expenditure, which is rather respectable in the world of horses and foot travel.

Don't forget; if you choose quicken for your Metakinetic Master ability, you can use your move action to reduce the quicken to free, and can therefore obtain a speed of 1920 ft per round or ~218.18 miles per hour. :)


Deadbeat Doom wrote:
ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark wrote:

Technically, the Kineticist can get to be one of the faster classes

With Air's Reach, Extended, and Extreme Range along with Ride the Blast, you could end up being able to travel up to 960 feet per standard action. You can also take wings of air and use your move action to get an extra 60 feet of movement, up to 1020 feet per round. Each round is six seconds, so the math works out to being able to travel up to 115 miles per hour with zero burn expenditure, which is rather respectable in the world of horses and foot travel.

Don't forget; if you choose quicken for your Metakinetic Master ability, you can use your move action to reduce the quicken to free, and can therefore obtain a speed of 1920 ft per round or ~218.18 miles per hour. :)

That was not something I considered. That's very fast, faster than 99.99% of most cars and about 40mph faster than a Cessna 172.

Silver Crusade

Hey Shark, I saw you were talking about writing an unchained Kineticists. I'm doing the same thing myself, but if you'd like, feel free to post a link in this thread when it's done, I'm sure people would like to check it out.


The basic mechanics are already fleshed out. I'd be happy to post a link. It's mostly just streamlining the kineticist and making it easier to read.

1) instead of elemental overflow granting bonuses to dexterity and Constitution (who in their right mind would pick Strength?) They grant their bonuses directly to the stuff they alter, like the unchained barbarian does. So instead of +2 Dex and +2 Con, you gain +1 to AC, +1 to Fort and Reflex saving throws, +1 to hit and to damage with kinetic blasts, and +1 temporary HP per hitdie you possess

2) Burn has been somewhat alleviated. Instead of taking nonlethal damage every time, you have a buffer of burn you can safely take before you start to suffer from nonlethal damage, but technically there is no upper limit on how much burn you can take- no hard limit. The soft limit is however much HP you have.

3) Kineticists get a few more wild talents and a few more infusions as they level up, and also gain access to bonus feats at the same rate as a monk. Additionally, they gain a version of mystic bolts and get kinetic blade (to take advantage of bonus feats) for free. I'm thinking of changing it so that you have to pick between one or the other as a "free" form infusion at first level.

Additionally, I'll probably include a few archetypes and a quick guide on converting old ones to it.

Here's a link, if anyone is interested.

Unchained Kineticist: Super Prototype


ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark wrote:

Here's a link, if anyone is interested.

Unchained Kineticist: Super Prototype

I like the direction this is going. I know this is still a work in progress, but a few observations:

1) Some of your text doesn't match your table. You've got "Bonus Feat" listed on the table at 4th level, but the text description says you get one at 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter (should be levels 2, 6, 10, 14, 18.)
2) I'm mildly concerned this is a little too front-loaded--you effectively get 4 wild talents/infusions at 1st level (kinetic blade, 1 other infusion, 2 utilities), which is a massive power up from the base class. Also, I know 1st level wild talents tend to be fairly limited in scope, but they're effectively 1st-level spells usable at-will, which is weird when you compare them to traditional spellcasters which only get a few spells per day for the first few levels (I know there's a whole linear/quadratic thing, but still.) That also makes this a super dippable class (and really, a 2-level dip would be hard to pass up for a lot of builds,) which isn't necessarily a problem, just something to be noted.
3) You've got like umpteen different ways to mitigate or ignore nonlethal damage from burn here; at what point do we just say the heck with it and give them a daily pool of burn points and drop the whole nonlethal mechanic?
3a) Also, the ability to accept burn without the limiting factor of nonlethal damage is going to throw off the power level of the elemental defenses and elemental overflow, since you can just drop a bunch of points at once to fill them up with no downsides. This ties into the dipping thing I mentioned before; any fighter or rogue could take 1 level to get a bunch of free regenerating temporary hp from force ward or +6 armor/+3 shield from shroud of water, for instance. (Other elemental defenses aren't quite as bad because they're explicitly limited in certain ways.)
4) I'm a huge fan of, like, an artist's statement or whatever, explaining why various changes are being made. Again, I know this isn't finished, but I like seeing the thought process behind stuff.

Criticisms aside, though, I like a lot of this stuff.


ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark wrote:

The basic mechanics are already fleshed out. I'd be happy to post a link. It's mostly just streamlining the kineticist and making it easier to read.

1) instead of elemental overflow granting bonuses to dexterity and Constitution (who in their right mind would pick Strength?) They grant their bonuses directly to the stuff they alter, like the unchained barbarian does. So instead of +2 Dex and +2 Con, you gain +1 to AC, +1 to Fort and Reflex saving throws, +1 to hit and to damage with kinetic blasts, and +1 temporary HP per hitdie you possess

2) Burn has been somewhat alleviated. Instead of taking nonlethal damage every time, you have a buffer of burn you can safely take before you start to suffer from nonlethal damage, but technically there is no upper limit on how much burn you can take- no hard limit. The soft limit is however much HP you have.

3) Kineticists get a few more wild talents and a few more infusions as they level up, and also gain access to bonus feats at the same rate as a monk. Additionally, they gain a version of mystic bolts and get kinetic blade (to take advantage of bonus feats) for free. I'm thinking of changing it so that you have to pick between one or the other as a "free" form infusion at first level.

Additionally, I'll probably include a few archetypes and a quick guide on converting old ones to it.

Here's a link, if anyone is interested.

Unchained Kineticist: Super Prototype

Not exactly a fan of your changes to Burn, Gather Energy and Overflow to be honest. Burn and Gather Energy are both straight power boosts and removes any hint of risk/reward from the class at all. Overflow is just straight up worse than it currently is and adds way too much extra verbiage for, essentially, no reason.


wynterknight wrote:
ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark wrote:

Here's a link, if anyone is interested.

Unchained Kineticist: Super Prototype

-snip-

I'll take that into account. A lot of the writing for this was done late at night and I probably need to go in and rejig some things. Thanks for the input

Silver Crusade

ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark wrote:
wynterknight wrote:
ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark wrote:

Here's a link, if anyone is interested.

Unchained Kineticist: Super Prototype

-snip-
I'll take that into account. A lot of the writing for this was done late at night and I probably need to go in and rejig some things. Thanks for the input

I'll need to look over this later myself, but I'd suggest making a thread for it to get more feedback, since this thread often gets cited for being off topic enough as it is.

I'm looking forward to checking it out though; I sort of feel like this class's stepdad at this point, and it's really cool seeing what people do with it. Also wow, 2400 post, that's just...wow...

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