| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hey there! I have to say, i'm liking the new edition a lot. I remained very skeptical till the release, but now, i can say was happy to be surprised. Regardless, i hope paizo keeps churning support for this game for another ten years!
I am not good at segue's, so what i was wondering, what class support would you like to see in the future? Not as in new classes, but new options for existing classes. Here's what i would like to see!
Two-weapon barbarian: I think the whirlwind style barbarian is just as iconic as the huge weapon type in fiction. The option is sadly not yet really viable for a barbarian without multiclassing. How about giving Barbarian their own version of twin strike?
Weapon bard: Bard has always been a versatile character, able to do a little bit of everything. But right now, the option of playing a more combat oriented bard (like dervish, remember that?) is not really there without multiclassing, as you can only get expert with weapons. Also, Skald would make for a great dedication.
Blight druid: Can we have this again? I loved it in first edition.
Reach fighter: Oddly, there is a not single feat in the entire book that specifically supports reach weapons. I find that...strange.
Drunken monk: My favorite archetype of all time. Please bring it back~
Thrown weapon ranger: Doesnt have to be ranger, but please, more support for thrown weapons.
Thats pretty much what i would love to see. or maybe i am an idiot and just missed the options. Anyways, what would you like to see?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Reach fighters have attack of opportunity, they are already the most optimal fighter… plus they can use all the two handed weapon feats, and they're better with whirlwind attack.
But yeah, two weapon barbarian seriously needs support.
I would also really like a lot of support for weapon using monks, hopefully one that sacrificed unarmed abilities. It seems like a great idea to have stances that require a weapon, so that weapon monks can compete with unarmed ones. I want a sword using monk not a bo staff user.
I think that fighting styles will come from general dedications, like an Archer dedication for any character that wants bow feats per example.
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Battle Herald to come back as an archetype.
Good for Fighters, Champions, Bards and more. We play a game which involves lots of fighting, professional military officer should be an archetype. The PF1 Prestige class was very weird, requiring obscure Monk or Cavalier Archetypes to work. a PF2 Battle Herald (or Military Officer, or Warlord, or Commander etc.) will allow for a more strategy-minded Paladin of Iomedae or a brave Bard barking orders.
I want Snow, Desert, and Sea druids again. Do you reckon those would be new druidic orders?
Weapon bard: Bard has always been a versatile character, able to do a little bit of everything. But right now, the option of playing a more combat oriented bard (like dervish, remember that?) is not really there without multiclassing, as you can only get expert with weapons. Also, Skald would make for a great dedication.
Master proficiency in a weapon is the equivalent of full BAB from PF1. I don't think we're ever going to get a full caster with master weapon proficiency- it'd be like wanting Ranger to get 9th and 10th level spells.
Weapon Bard, such as Arcane Duelist or something similar, would be very welcome. Skald would also be a great Muse option to add.
I also second the vote for some polearm fighter support.
Personally, I'd like to see a Beastmorph type of Alchemist. One where the mutagen options don't completely suck.
In addition, I'd like to see Focus powers/focus spells for the Ranger. It seemed an odd choice not to give those to the Ranger.
Finally, I'd like to see a more gishy Druid order, something like the Warpriest, but for Druids.
Just my personal wish list, I don't expect everyone else to want the same things.
Master proficiency in a weapon is the equivalent of full BAB from PF1. I don't think we're ever going to get a full caster with master weapon proficiency- it'd be like wanting Ranger to get 9th and 10th level spells.
Wow, top notch reductionism. Martials are much more than just their to-hit modifier; in fact, it's the least important part.
===========================================================Onto the OP question, I'd like to see:
- more Metamagic feats for Wizards : specifically not ones that increase damage, but do other effects. Increasing duration would be great in particular;
- more Focus options for specialist Wizards - especially 1st level ones; Transmutation power is BOOOOORING; I would like something with actual Morphing/Polymorphing, not just boring stat boost;
- weapon Bard
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Master proficiency in a weapon is the equivalent of full BAB from PF1. I don't think we're ever going to get a full caster with master weapon proficiency- it'd be like wanting Ranger to get 9th and 10th level spells.Wow, top notch reductionism. Martials are much more than just their to-hit modifier; in fact, it's the least important part.
I don't think I'm being too reductionist? A premise from the first post was that Bards aren't good at combat because they only get expert in weapons. (If you don't think that master weapon proficiency is important to be a martial, then we're probably in agreement- I think a blade muse that gave broader weapon proficiency would work make Bard a solid martial.) The next step up from expert is joining ranger/paladin/barbarian in master weapon proficiency. Cleric can't trade legendary casting for master weapons, so it'd need to cost more than that. Trading out legendary and master casting feels like it's just restricting you to non-save spells, so I'd expect that it would need to actually take away some of the casting. At that point it's no longer a full caster.
---
To add some stuff I'd like:
- Swarm-focused Druids.
- Fungus-focused Druids.
- More non-divine Sorcerer bloodlines.
- Poisoner Alchemist. It'd be awesome if we could get one that uses clouds of poison- a more reliable/broader delivery method at the expense of not getting the weapon damage.
- Body-modification Alchemist. Intelligent tumors, extra arms, all that jazz.
- Alternate first-level focus spells for Wizards.
Master proficiency in a weapon is the equivalent of full BAB from PF1. I don't think we're ever going to get a full caster with master weapon proficiency- it'd be like wanting Ranger to get 9th and 10th level spells.Wow, top notch reductionism. Martials are much more than just their to-hit modifier; in fact, it's the least important part.I don't think I'm being too reductionist? A premise from the first post was that Bards aren't good at combat because they only get expert in weapons. (If you don't think that master weapon proficiency is important to be a martial, then we're probably in agreement- I think a blade muse that gave broader weapon proficiency would work make Bard a solid martial.) The next step up from expert is joining ranger/paladin/barbarian in master weapon proficiency. Cleric can't trade legendary casting for master weapons, so it'd need to cost more than that. Trading out legendary and master casting feels like it's just restricting you to non-save spells, so I'd expect that it would need to actually take away some of the casting. At that point it's no longer a full caster.
---
To add some stuff I'd like:
- Swarm-focused Druids.
- Fungus-focused Druids.
- More non-divine Sorcerer bloodlines.
- Poisoner Alchemist. It'd be awesome if we could get one that uses clouds of poison- a more reliable/broader delivery method at the expense of not getting the weapon damage.
- Body-modification Alchemist. Intelligent tumors, extra arms, all that jazz.
- Alternate first-level focus spells for Wizards.
I second swarm, fungus and plant focused Druids. Hazmat Alchemist sounds like fun too.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Would absolutely love to see ranged Paladin options, an Inquisitor Cleric, or both. Also hoping that Gunslinger sneaks in as Swashbuckler path.
I don't think I'm being too reductionist? A premise from the first post was that Bards aren't good at combat because they only get expert in weapons. (If you don't think that master weapon proficiency is important to be a martial, then we're probably in agreement- I think a blade muse that gave broader weapon proficiency would work make Bard a solid martial.) The next step up from expert is joining ranger/paladin/barbarian in master weapon proficiency. Cleric can't trade legendary casting for master weapons, so it'd need to cost more than that. Trading out legendary and master casting feels like it's just restricting you to non-save spells, so I'd expect that it would need to actually take away some of the casting. At that point it's no longer a full caster.
So what if it joins Ranger/Paladin/Barbarian? All those classes do much more than just get Master Proficiency with Weapons, and that giving Bard something in exchange for Legendary Spellcasting is good enough. Cleric also gets Medium armours; don't give that to Bards.
Alternatively, if they made weapon-focused Bard really good with Advanced Weapons (playing on Bard being the weirdo), that could also work I guess.
- More non-divine Sorcerer bloodlines.
- Poisoner Alchemist. It'd be awesome if we could get one that uses clouds of poison- a more reliable/broader delivery method at the expense of not getting the weapon damage.
- Body-modification Alchemist. Intelligent tumors, extra arms, all that jazz.
Yes, yes, and yes!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Alchemist: More research fields, obviously. Frankensteins! Weird Science! Etc.!
Barbarian: Agree on the dual-wield dervish concept already expressed. Also elemental-linked instinct, something in the beastrider/horse nomad line, something like the Armored Hulk.
Bard: Anything the breaks away from the minstrel/dancer/performer stereotypes -- duelist, sword-mage, archaeologist/scholar types.
Champion: Well, causes for other alignments -- and for that matter, options beyond just one cause per alignment. More options in devotion spells and champion's reactions.
Clerics: More doctrine options -- inquisitor for sure, exorcist, divine slayer/assassin/fanatic. More divine font options.
Druid: Well, more druid orders, of course. Monstrous beast-type companion options. Druidic healers. Fey-linked druids.
Fighter: Yeah, more polearm options. And maybe feats to build up as a more of a commander/warlord -- to boost companions, etc. -- beyond just personal fighting prowess.
Monk: More stance/style chains. And more support for using weapons.
Ranger: More hunter's edge options
Rogue: More rackets, to explore other concepts -- agitator/rebel, courtesan, investigator/detective, spy, etc.
Sorcerer: Options to modify and mix up bloodline options, like the old wildblooded sorcerers. More varied metamagic options.
Wizard: More options in the school focus spells. Some way to model interesting wizardly traditions beyond just the schools -- maybe could be done through arcane thesis and/or feats. Options for more exotic familiars. More things to do with the arcane bond. Much more metamagic.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
You could probably do a nine-level caster that went up to master-level weapons proficiency if you limited the number of spells/day they got at each level to a low enough number, but it'd eat up most of the class's power level budget. You'd probably have to either turn all of the other turnable knobs in the basic class framework (HP, proficiencies) most of the way down and/or somehow mess with the basic class chassis. I think that trying to work it into an existing class, especially one with as many bells and whistles as bard, is probably more difficult that doing that from scratch.
You could probably make a better martial bard by creating a bard option that doesn't go all of the way to scaling like a full martial class but that has significant martial advantages. Between their very easy access to status bonuses to fighting-oriented things and okayish weapon selection, Bards are already a big part of the way there.
So what if it joins Ranger/Paladin/Barbarian? All those classes do much more than just get Master Proficiency with Weapons
Not much actually. Their biggest feature is master proficiency with weapons. The Barbarian rage is one feat, the Paladin Lay on Hands or Champion Reaction are 2 feats, etc...
I'm with QuidEst, Master proficiency is equivalent to full bab, not something you give to a Bard.Also, I don't understand the issue with Weapon Bard, as it's very easy to design one using current system. Bard Dedication + Inspire Courage are 2 feats. You can add Lingering Performance for a third one, and you have the whole "song" part of the bard on your Fighter or Barbarian.
If you want a more caster bard, you go bard, take Fighter Dedication + Expert in weapons. And you can add a few fighter feats intermingled with your bard feats, take attack of opportunity also.
If you prefer Champion, you can end up in heavy armor, take the Champion Reaction and Lay on Hands.
The current multiclassing system supports very well hybrid classes. It's true that you can't be a 50/50 bard/fighter, but that would need a complete class overhaul and I'm not sure the tight spot is very easy to find.
Not much actually. Their biggest feature is master proficiency with weapons. The Barbarian rage is one feat, the Paladin Lay on Hands or Champion Reaction are 2 feats, etc...
I'm with QuidEst, Master proficiency is equivalent to full bab, not something you give to a Bard.
Hardly. You gain Rage, sure, but not a whiff of the full power of the Instinct, even if you take the feat for enabling instinct.
Not to mention all the benefits (such as damage resistance later, or increased armour proficiency), or access to all the various feats that Barbarian can access to improve both their attacking and damage, but also other abilities (like flying for Dragon Instinct).
Alchemists: More support for "Mr. Hyde" Alchemists, right now bombers are getting most of the love
Rangers: Options for launching snares like the PF1 Trapper could. I want my trick arrows!
Rogue: More fears for combining rogue abilities with magic, like the Arcane Trickster's Ranged Legerdemain
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Personally, I just want more class feats. There seem to only be a few class feats of each level in the CRB, and most of those are terrible. I'd love to see more options and builds for each class.
Personally, I just want more class feats. There seem to only be a few class feats of each level in the CRB, and most of those are terrible. I'd love to see more options and builds for each class.
Most are really good and interesting, with alchemists being outlier. You either only checked out alchemists or is analyzing the class feats through PF1e's lenses. The paradigm is very much different and thus, it's hard to count on your previous knowledge to evaluate them specially when you still don't know what is the "benchmark" to hold up a certain feat against and I'm not even sure if there ever will be a "benchmark", but definitely there will be feats that are way more interesting than others for most builds.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Personally, I just want more class feats. There seem to only be a few class feats of each level in the CRB, and most of those are terrible. I'd love to see more options and builds for each class.Most are really good and interesting, with alchemists being outlier. You either only checked out alchemists or is analyzing the class feats through PF1e's lenses. The paradigm is very much different and thus, it's hard to count on your previous knowledge to evaluate them specially when you still don't know what is the "benchmark" to hold up a certain feat against and I'm not even sure if there ever will be a "benchmark", but definitely there will be feats that are way more interesting than others for most builds.
I think the issue is the PF 1e lens. Most of the 2e class feats are very underwhelming. Champion and Alchemist in particular have awful feats. Rogue, Barbarian, Druid and Fighter have some good choices, the rest are kinda meh. There's a reason everyone seems to pick up a multiclass feat at 2nd level; because class feats are pretty bad.
I really do like the idea of class feats, and I think having more choices would remedy this issue.
Archtype or option to convert diabolic (and demonic) bloodline back to arcane spells.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I thought the class feats were really weak and uninspired in the playtest, but so far, every character I've created in PF2e offered me interesting choices, even the alchemist. Though the latter was because I chose the bomber path, which is the one with less issues even if it has the PF1-style feats that only exist to keep up, rather than offering meaningful choices.
Try to make a character of higher level and use it in a combat, you'll see things can change quite bit. Somethings will not click until you see how combat plays out, since movement is more important now, interesting reactions also can offer quite a lot of nuance to your playstyle (specially for champions). Damage is also different now, you don't need to be "full-attacking" the whole turn in order to perform what's expected of you.
There's plenty of changes that will require experience, things may look bad or uninteresting (which I don't think they are, honestly, Starfinder is much worse in this aspect) at first glance, but nothing that a couple battles can't showcase the strengths or uses of some feats.
Example? Power attack. There's been plenty of threads saying it's a downgrade in damage... Except that crit chances are higher in your opening attack an since you're a fighter, this means you're critting even more often than other classes, now couple that with less static numbers and more emphasis on dice and you get quite a nice feature that can perform well with high AC or high DR enemies and offer a meaningful choices in unfavorable situations (environment, concealment, debuffs, etc).
Bards are fantastic in terms of their choices, you could focus on your compositions, variety in spell casting, your skills for information gathering, or more than one of these at a time.
Sorcerers are fairly good as well, getting extra spells, and class feats that further support.
Honestly in general, I can't think of any classes that have bad class feats- Alchemists are a bit broken atm, and I'm not into the flavor of the Champion's current offerings very much. But everyone else is fantastic as is, with additional design space for just about every class to naturally build out some more options.
________________________________________________________________________
But putting that aside, I think that there must be someway to facilitate gish type characters somewhat better than the current game does (its doable right now, but I prefer a more blended feel.)
I suspect the best solution is actually focus powers, in the way that the Druid wildshape works, you can spend them to enter a magically enhanced state that offers various bonuses- for the most part, a proper gish could stay martial as much as they wanted since the 10 minutes to refocus and the number of focus points you get are pretty liberal, but certain situations could push them in a way the normal martial doesn't have to deal with. I could imagine this as a Bardic Muse that offers a kind of 'symphony of swords' netting them the boosts they need to succeed, or as an arcane thesis for the wizard, or a chain of class feats for the sorcerer.