Arnwyn |
I really wish the city was described in more detail.
Really, the city concept itself is far too confusing for this not to have been (heavily) described, and - for me - the map was tremendously disappointing (though certainly a valiant attempt at something that was doomed from the start).
Very cool idea, but the limit of 64 pages (and likely budget) hamstrung this product from the beginning. Unfortunate, but that's the way things go sometimes, I suppose.
[Don't take this as being overly critical, BTW. It's still a good/evocative product.]
Hyla Arborea |
I really wish the city was described in more detail.
Really, the city concept itself is far too confusing for this not to have been (heavily) described, and - for me - the map was tremendously disappointing (though certainly a valiant attempt at something that was doomed from the start).
Very cool idea, but the limit of 64 pages (and likely budget) hamstrung this product from the beginning. Unfortunate, but that's the way things go sometimes, I suppose.
[Don't take this as being overly critical, BTW. It's still a good/evocative product.]
It is a shame that boxed sets with two to three 64p-booklets and four poster maps are just not an option any more. I would readily give up full color printing for that to return....
Arnwyn |
It is a shame that boxed sets with two to three 64p-booklets and four poster maps are just not an option any more. I would readily give up full color printing for that to return....
Indeed. It's a significant reason why the City of Splendors FR box is the best city supplement of all time, and won't ever be beaten.
Kreniigh |
In my imagination--and again, this is just my take--the ground floor of Kaer Maga *is* mostly open, though there are probably some pillars and the occasional wall segment strewn around there (and likely incorporated into the structures... why build four walls for your house when you could build three?). That said, the ceiling height of the various districts varies considerably (and changes within the individual districts as well). In Bis, the ceilings are incredibly high, and in the southern districts you can actually see sky in places, but I imagine that Ankar-Te and Oriat are a lot lower-ceilinged... probably no higher than 20 feet in many places, with larger structures naturally built in those areas where the ceiling is higher. If I had to pick the district that has the lowest ceilings, I'd guess that it's Tarheel... nothing over there is more than a few stories.
All of which is a long way of saying: If you levitate somewhere on the ground floor, you can probably see quite a ways over the rooftops, but...
OK, cool, thanks... I know a lot of detail had to be left up to the GM to fill in, and it helps knowing what the overall accumulation of those details looks like.
On the topic of viewpoints, does this sound correct: If you're somewhere in the core, and you look at the hexagonal line separating the core from the ring, you see an 8-story wall punctuated all over the place with all kinds of openings, balconies, etc., with passages at ground level where the roads go through it -- but nonetheless, a definite wall, except for the Warrens and Bis? (Actually, is Bis open to the core, or still pretty well self-contained?)
thanks!
Karl
James Sutter Contributor |
On the topic of viewpoints, does this sound correct: If you're somewhere in the core, and you look at the hexagonal line separating the core from the ring, you see an 8-story wall punctuated all over the place with all kinds of openings, balconies, etc., with passages at ground level where the roads go through it -- but nonetheless, a definite wall, except for the Warrens and Bis? (Actually, is Bis open to the core, or still pretty well self-contained?)
Exactly. There aren't always walls between the various abutting Ring districts, but from either the outside or the Core, the ring districts are almost completely walled off. Think of Kaer Maga as being kinda like the Pentagon, and you'll be reasonably close.
(And Bis isn't actually open to the Core--the Warren is the only place where the big stone ring-wall has been shattered enough that they had to fill it in with other structures.)
Kreniigh |
Exactly. There aren't always walls between the various abutting Ring districts, but from either the outside or the Core, the ring districts are almost completely walled off. Think of Kaer Maga as being kinda like the Pentagon, and you'll be reasonably close.
(And Bis isn't actually open to the Core--the Warren is the only place where the big stone ring-wall has been shattered enough that they had to fill it in with other structures.)
OK, cool... I just have one more question, I promise.
It's about the roof. You mentioned in an earlier post there you saw it as mostly a featureless expanse, but that some hardy people might build structures up there.
Yet Highside has 16-story towers that look down on the city, and both the art and the cross-section map show multiple towers rising high above the top of the ring across the southern end of the city. I can't see how that's possible unless large sections of the roof are missing there.
So if parts of Highside -- maybe just the topmost levels -- are open to the sky... Well, I considered the idea that most of the roof of the ring is open, but Bis is obviously meant to be an enclosed cavern, and a mostly open roof would make the top levels of most districts as valuable as the heights of Highside.
What I'm picturing now is that Highside has the same internal walls and levels as the rest of the ring, but lacking structural support on three sides, it's degraded faster. The higher up you go, the more open space there is for multi-level towers, all the way up to the roof, which is mostly gone. (Parts of the original roof still remain as levels in the towers and connecting bridges between towers.) The other districts still have mostly intact roofs, with open space to be determined by the GM when needed.
I guess that's less of a question than my own theory... Does it conflict with anything you might have intended?
Thanks much!
Karl
James Sutter Contributor |
In my mind, the Stacks are only sort of a part of the Ring--you can see how the otherwise symmetrical walls bulge in toward the middle there. My thought is that the Ring districts are all the same height in that outer hexagon of stone, and then where Highside Stacks protrude into the Core the walls rise up into this crazy collection of high towers. Most of the Ring is totally enclosed, but from the towers you can look out on all the open-air districts of the Core, as well as down into those parts of Cavalcade where the ceiling is broken.
Sorry that was unclear! The towers of Highside definitely stretch way above everything else in the city... you can see that somewhat in the map on page 52, though of course that's an artist's interpretation and not to scale (the actual towers being a narrower patch, and MUCH taller).
carmachu |
Hyla Arborea wrote:It is a shame that boxed sets with two to three 64p-booklets and four poster maps are just not an option any more. I would readily give up full color printing for that to return....Indeed. It's a significant reason why the City of Splendors FR box is the best city supplement of all time, and won't ever be beaten.
Ahem. one word for you:
Ptolus.
Beercifer |
carmachu wrote:+1
Ahem. one word for you:Ptolus.
Here's one thing. The documented population for Kaer Maga is around 20K or less I think. Ptolus is around 80-100K. Look at it like some of your suburbs versus' Ptolus's Peoria-like metropolitan area. Kaer Maga has a huge underground group that doesn't do the census.
Mind you, if you have Ptolus but many of your players are gunshy about it and don't want to be a part of that, cannibalize it for your current game. And Kaer Maga has so much in it that you should stay away from the underground until around 5th level.
Anyone have some old dungeon issues lying around for use in this wonderful relic from Thassilonian times?
Joseph Wilson |
Hey there. I'm currently running an adventure which may take my PCs down into the Dark Forest. The Khaei race that James Sutter alludes to in City of Strangers fascinates me, and I was disappointed to find that there doesn't seem to be any stats or anything for them. Now, I know that stats may not be necessary, given their description depicts them as mostly amiable and helpful to strangers, but I was wondering if anyone else has made use of the Khaei yet and how you may have handled them.
James Sutter Contributor |
Hmmmmm. Wonder why James isn't answering....
Noooo! Someone was posting about Kaer Maga and I missed it! Why didn't anyone tell me?!?
As it turns out, I'm not currently working on any new Kaer Maga stuff, but we had Rob McCreary take a shot at a Kaer Maga adventure with The Godsmouth Heresy, and I was quite impressed with the results (as it sounds like many other folks were!).
Instead, I've been busy writing away on another of my pet projects, writing up a whole sourcebook for one of my favorite parts of the campaign setting. And on that, I can say no more...
James Sutter Contributor |
Hey there. I'm currently running an adventure which may take my PCs down into the Dark Forest. The Khaei race that James Sutter alludes to in City of Strangers fascinates me, and I was disappointed to find that there doesn't seem to be any stats or anything for them. Now, I know that stats may not be necessary, given their description depicts them as mostly amiable and helpful to strangers, but I was wondering if anyone else has made use of the Khaei yet and how you may have handled them.
Hooray! And I'm also curious to see how people handle the Khaei. One of the best and worst parts about a book of this size is that you have the opportunity to introduce a bunch of new races/monsters/locations, but never enough space to detail them all fully. When in doubt, I try to err on the side of dropping more allusions and ideas rather than less, and letting the readers develop them. (And if people are curious enough about them... well, that's how the City of Strangers book came to be!)
Joseph Wilson |
Hooray! And I'm also curious to see how people handle the Khaei. One of the best and worst parts about a book of this size is that you have the opportunity to introduce a bunch of new races/monsters/locations, but never enough space to detail them all fully. When in doubt, I try to err on the side of dropping more allusions and ideas rather than less, and letting the readers develop them. (And if people are curious enough about them... well, that's how the City of Strangers book came to be!)
I'll try to remember to report back depending on what happens.
James Sutter Contributor |
James Sutter Contributor |
James, I'm not sure if your still haunting this thread :) , but I was wondering ...
The similarities between the Caulborn and the Sinspawn ... this can't be a coincidence, right? I don't suppose you might want to elaborate?!
Love all the Kaer Maga stuff, as I slowly work through the lore!
Hm... keen observation. :)
Roma Methusael |
HA! It's almost been a year since this was last commented on but i must, for my sanity.
Bloatmage? BLOATMAGE!!! HEMOTHEURGES! No, NO! This is Pathfinder Societies OFFICIAL take on Blood Casters!?!
So i came from 3.5 to PFS for this... Do you hate me? Did we meet on the street one time and i was having a bad day and you got the brunt end of it?
Sadly this ALONE makes me reconsider joining Pathfinder. but what other choice do i have? I lost all my friends when i moved, you have a good community a great system. But because i wasnt involved in this 3-4 years ago i get punished with BARON HARKONNEN!!!
I'm going to help make a better alternative than this... thing. Expect to hear more from me James L. Sutter.
Roma Methusael |
There's also the Cruoromancer from the Advanced Race Guide.
Thanks for letting me know about this. I doubt this will be available until Dhampir is fully released. also my love for blood out weighs my hate of wizards. Due to the fact Dhamphir's arn't legal yet. I couldn't find this through my usual resources.
Still not going to stop me from making my own class/PrC. and putting it in the appropriate forum.
Majuba |
Bloatmages are one of my absolute favorite things about Kaer Maga, and I find the prestige class to be a glorious write-up of them, with a bit of sacrifice for power - highly appropriate.
Actually, I just popped in here to ask that the cover art of the Bloatmage be added to the Avatar pictures - my Bloatmage needs a better picture!
zoewolverine |
Is there an errata PDF for this? I'm on page 3 and have come across a sentence that doesn't make any sense: "Without warning the current runelord, an archmage named Karzoug, they retreated deep into the tunnels beneath the city, placing thousands of feet of stone between themselves and the ruin to come."
I thought we were talking about one archmage, Karzoug, so who is "they"/"them"?
graywulfe |
The sentence makes perfect sense. To help with comprehension read it without the section separated out by commas.
Without warning the current runelord, they retreated deep into the tunnels beneath the city, placing thousands of feet of stone between themselves and the ruin to come.
The "they" in question is, explicitly, not the runelord. I don't remember who "they" are. I would assume "they" are whoever the previous sentences are talking about.
Douglas Muir 406 |
Necro, because I just reread this. On one hand, it still holds up really well and you can absolutely still go there and have all kinds of fun. On the other hand, it does feel a little dated in the sense that it's very much a first-decade-of-the-21st-century kind of a product. It's coming from the same place as Ptolus, yes? And I feel like Paizo doesn't really do this kind of setting any more: dark and adult, but with the darkness being more whimsical/weird/wacky as opposed to grimdark, and the whole thing very much one man's crazy vision. There's been plenty of great stuff from Paizo in the last five years, but... nothing that quite scratches exactly this itch.
James Sutter left behind a bunch of little mysteries that will probably never be solved. I doubt we will ever get an in-canon explanation for what the Child Goddess really is, Uncle Guden's true identity, how the Flickering Tower works, what the Pillars of Dream were originally, or what's even the deal with the Iridian Fold. Which is fine. But I do wonder how Paizo will deal with this oddly shaped puzzle piece going forward. Is there anyone but James Sutter who can really do Kaer Maga justice? Will anyone even try?
Doug M.
Jhaeman |
I do think the early years of adventure and setting material was the best: sometimes a glorious mix of dark, original, and sometimes shocking ideas. I don't think we'll ever see anything like City of Strangers or the Graul farm again. As companies grow more popular, they also tend to adopt a more accessible "family friendly" approach when it comes to content.
Officially at least, Sutter is available as a freelancer though. So maybe we'll see some more of his work in Pathfinder or Starfinder.
Domar |
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I'm getting ready to run Godmouth Heresy for a new group of players and I'm reading up Kaer Maga to provide some background flavor for my players. Unfortunately, I can't figure out what the city looks like. The pictures and maps show a flat city in full sunlight. I see pictures of it near a cliff with subterranean dungeons but no subterranean city. However, the city's descriptions suggest the city is underground. In Lord of Runes, Varian Jeggare visits the city and it's described as being underground. Why don't the pictures and maps match the descriptions? Where could I find a set of descriptions and maps that match? What does the city really look like? Thanks in advance!
Set |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
What does the city really look like? Thanks in advance!
Check out this youtube video and this model for details.
Rysky |
Domar wrote:What does the city really look like? Thanks in advance!Check out this youtube video and this model for details.
Mmmm, cake city
captain yesterday |
I'm getting ready to run Godmouth Heresy for a new group of players and I'm reading up Kaer Maga to provide some background flavor for my players. Unfortunately, I can't figure out what the city looks like. The pictures and maps show a flat city in full sunlight. I see pictures of it near a cliff with subterranean dungeons but no subterranean city. However, the city's descriptions suggest the city is underground. In Lord of Runes, Varian Jeggare visits the city and it's described as being underground. Why don't the pictures and maps match the descriptions? Where could I find a set of descriptions and maps that match? What does the city really look like? Thanks in advance!
They in fact live inside the walls. Like The Littles, except everyone is regular size.